Comments on The Idea (or Ideology) of Seattle: Part One

The Anthony Bourdain No Reservations Vancouver episode aired this weekend on the travel Channel. Go watch that and see just how far out-classed Seattle is by Vancouver.

conspicuous consumption

Gross.

Charles...the whole of your philosophy fails on this point...

There is no gods-eye-view. All view comes from individuals within a community, never from a community toward individuals. Community is merely shorthand for a group of individuals.

That's it.

From glancing at the blog, these seem to be perfectly nice people who are enjoying their lives. Was the point of this to ridicule people you consider to be less sophisticated than yourself? BTW, the view of Mt. Constitution really is very nice.

Perfectly ordinary, decent, middle-class people enjoying a perfectly ordinary, decent middle-class experience means WHAT, now? Is the Space Needle restaurant kind of overpriced and mediocre, but with a killer view? So what? Who is being harmed here, besides these probably-pretty-nice people being mocked by the Slog for no reason?

Does Bourdain visit Vij's? Now THAT'S a restaurant.

Actually, some of the meals there aren't marked up ...

But Vancouver does have a really cool view too.

Gist comes from the French, not German.

HAHA! Look at the funny people! Enjoying a visit over dinner and a view! Without snarky irony! Losers!

Seattle sucks and everything I enjoy is inherently superior, which proves I'm smart.

Thank you Fnarf.

Did you even read the rest? I think interacting with the environment through low-impact means such as a kayak, then enjoying the benefits of high-density urban life should very much be at the core of Seattle living. (You pretentious twit.)

The scariest part of this post is "part one". More of this to come?? Thanks for the warning.

Someone please decode Charles' post for me. It can't just be a snark against banality, can it?

The Space Needle is cool.

@6 - Vij's is my GOD.

Oh, I missed the link on "gist". It's too the Wikipedia entry for "geist", but the two words have no relationship.

Gist: "From Anglo-Norman (cest action) gist, (this action) lies, third person sing. of gesir, to lie, from Latin iacēre."
versus "Geist, ghost (from Middle High German, from Old High German).]

@6&15, Vij's, Tojo's (which you would also love), and Cioppino's Meditarrean Grill (?). There is a great final scene with Bourdain and the three chefs just relaxing, drinking and eating. Somehow, it nails what's really great about Vancouver.

Bourdain also heads over to Souk Harbor House, which is a pretty unique place, and then there's a lot of complaining about the amount of rain in July. I guess he didn't get the memo that summer would be in June in 2007 (I missed that memo too).

The Space Needle kicks ass. And, even though the menu in that restaurant is a disgrace (Jaegermeister sauce, insulting steaks, boring wine list), that dessert is AWESOME.

It is a rare day that someone brings you an ice cream sundae in a silver dish surrounded by bubbling dry ice, while slowly circling the city's skyline.

That is some solid good times. Don't be a player hater, Charles.

HAHA! Look at the funny people! Enjoying a visit over dinner and a view! Without snarky irony! Losers!

Woot! Not to mention it looks like Eddie Deezen left the table. LOSERS!

And the Space Needle SUCKS!!

HAAAA HAAAAA!!!

what does chaz honestly believe people who visit seattle do? not go to the space needle? not go on cruises to alaska?

@1 and @17 - Like most sloggers you are clearly too fucking cool for school (i.e. Seattle), but thanks for reminding us for the billionth time that everyplace (Vancouver, Portland, New York, San Fran) is soooo much better than seattle. FYI, Bourdain visited seattle last season and LOVED it, including a "great final scene" of relaxing and eating with friends at Salumi. Can anyplace just be fucking cool without being cool at someone elses expense? At least, if you have to juxtapose Vancouver's unbeatable coolness with somewhere "less" cool, could it be Houston, or Phoenix, or Oklahoma city, or someplace that actually sucks? Seattle is pretty cool folks, and proximity to Vancouver and Portland are part of what makes it a great place to live.

Who allows you on the internets Chuck? These appear to be very nice people enjoying their vacation. Who are you, of all people, to judge and mock them in a public forum? Despicable.

"A funky UFO-themed ice cream dish that came complete with fog-producing dry ice!"

I kind of think the use of "funky" is hilarious, but seriously? Ice cream with DRY ICE! That sounds awesome.

I love Seattle. Just because I'm an obnoxious naysayer online doesn't mean I think I'm too fucking cool for school. I went to school. It was cool.

I'm not sure what to make of this. For the first time ever, I actually wish Charles had included some weird marxist rant, because I'm not really getting the point.

I thought the Slog was all about meth-addicted white christian trash who raise vicious pit bulls, vote for Mormon Republicans, and abuse their children.

What's this happy, loving, family (mother and father, Dan) doing on here??!?

Vancouver (and Seattle) get much less rain in July than New York does.

But if he visits Vij's, I'm seriously jazzed to see that episode. That place is awesome.

Coriander in Liverpool is better!

I was at Niko's in Magnolia last week picking up some felafel and happened to notice a tiny, beaten up photo of Bourdain taped up behind the counter. It made me infinitely happy.

longball @21 hit the ball out of the park. Awesome post.

I'll give Charles the benefit of the doubt here. Either because I'm too lowbrow to understand some hidden meaning (always possible), or maybe because he meant that doing things like going to the Space Needle for dinner are part of the "Seattle Experience", and meant no offense.

I've been to dinner at the needle on several occassions. Before I met The Colonel, another single friend and I would go to the Needle every Christmas season and have a romantic dinner together (No, I didn't abandon him when I met The Colonel. He moved to Idaho, for some strange reason. It all worked out nicely)

And I will not get into the Vancouver versus Seattle discussion (which has got to be one of the most boring topics EVER) except to say that there is a hotel over by Stanley Park that also has a revolving restaurant and bar on top. Just like the Space Needle. And the food is even more mediocre.

I've been there on several occassions as well.

That would be fun.

@21 is right that there was a NW episode (sorry Seattle had to share time with that other world-trotter, Portland), and I meant to cop to that fact.

I'm with Poe, school was cool. Second, people in Seattle actually think it is a debatable point whether Vancouver is better. Granted it has the same level of challenge as proving that Chaz is a tool, but I'm still going to point out that Vancouver has greater diversity, a monorail, better restaurants, a nightlife, actual beaches etc. That said, the level of passive-agressive b.s. is probably unparalleled outside of Boston, Seattle has a decent arts scene and it's a pretty decent place to raise kids (although the schools outside of Bellevue are failing).

Charles isn't saying that the pictured group are banal, lacking in taste, or possessing of poor fiscal judgment, though it may certainly be the case.

He is saying that it is a symptom of our corrupt society that qualities such as the above assist in literally elevating the bourgeois above those who lack the exploitative ambition to leave the hard asphalt of the street.

vikram vij is the man. that place was no secret, but it already takes two hours (of very pleasant) waiting to get in. so now i guess we'll make that four hours. and the wifey and i were a slight bit bummed that the 'secret' is out on sooke harbor house. best experience ever (i don't even need to put periods after each word, it's that good).

as for vancouver vs. seattle vs. portland. it's all the PNW, folks. all good. folks i meet from vancouver say 'i wish i lived in seattle - it's too expensive here and there's no nightlife.' seattle folks swoon over the relative affordability and smoking of portland, some portland natives still seem to think seattle's 'the big city'... everyone wants to be where they ain't.

one great thing that seattle has that the others do not is the fact that it's conveniently in the middle of both. nice place to be.

no no no, the 'gist of this city’s existence' is exactly what charles intends in this cleverly posed metaphor,ie "welcome to seattle, let's get high and eat dessert."

now, WHO WANTS TO PARTY?

i heart vij's, lunar orbiters and charles mudede. totally in that order. praise jesus.

@34, I can agree with most of that. The good news is that Vij's now has a to-go place next door so you can pick up and spend those two hours down at Kits Beach eating.

It is the Sooke Harbour House. I just cannot spell anything today.

http://www.sookeharbourhouse.com/seafood_restaurant.htm

And as anyone who knows or clicks on the link can see, Sooke Harbour House is not in Vancouver, but in Sooke. Meaning, west of Victoria, on Vancouver Island. Which is not even on the same PLANET as the city of Vancouver, thank god.

No, what Charles is saying is that these experiences and this approach to place are classically Seattle. Enjoying Seattle this way is the core of its geist, its spirit. All us smartypantses who drank on Capitol Hill all through the 90s with our music and our politics, of changing the place into something different - truly urban in an older (and more futuristic) fashion - were just building an annex (and a temporary one at that). The other, prior, and enduring way of enjoying the place still survives. This is no offence to these nice people, just a fact.

At least I think that´s what this is about. Those are my ´early projections´.

grant, you nailed it. thank you.

pshaw, you just latched onto the only thing of substance that anyone posted chaz. It's like me latching on to the patriots to win the superbowl.

Grant @39: the problem is your music wasn't good enough. Grunge in the 80s and 90s made the condition of the world WORSE, not better. The other way of life to which you refer is, in fact, better.

What the fuck are you talking about Fnarf? Grunge from the 80s and 90s isn't remotely close to any of the genres of music that have made the world worse.

Hah! I shouldn't be surprised almost everyone jumped to the conclusion Charles was ridiculing these people, but I am. Just a little. I mean, talk about projecting!

Grant@39: thank you. And a great sentiment, to boot.

could it be Houston, or Phoenix, or Oklahoma city, or someplace that actually sucks?

Point of order here.

Houston is a great restaurant city, thanks to the oil wealth and it being stupid hot 90% of the year. Every time I've been there, I've been surprised by yet another great high-end place or dive.

Oklahoma City, while dominated by chain places, has some incredible Vietnamese joints thanks to its Southeast Asian community. It also has Texas style BBQ (i.e. lots of beef ribs and brisket), steakhouses, Tex-Mex, and even damn good frybread. The changes in American cuisine nationally have only just started to reach Oklahoma, sadly, but things are changing.

Phoenix... I know nothing about. I do know they usually have as many regional Beard nominees as we have.

Are these fire hydrants?

You're wrong, Mr. Poe. Utterly wrong. Grunge was an even more negative force in the world than the hair metal it replaced on MTV -- which was spiritually similar, once you strip away the clothes and hairstyles. All about testosterone and big swinging dicks. I guess some people dig that.

You really ought to consider moving away. You're a lot more thin-skinned than most Seattleites.

Charles,
What would have been a more authentic Seattle experience for these poor folks you choose to mock? Getting tattoos, dying their hair red and black and snorting coke at the Cha Cha? They put this up on the Web, probably for their friends and family, to show their low-impact, eco-friendly, un-obnoxious trip to the PacNW. And you choose to make a mockery of them for it, because it's a false version of the "ideology of Seattle". You owe them an apology. Seriously.

@48

I disagree entirely. Hip-hop/rap is #1. And at least I can laugh at metal hair bands and have a good time. Whenever some idiot is rapping about his big screen TV, 'mo money and big ass bitches ballin' in the back of their 'big wheel', forty children are eaten alive by way of PB. Fo' sho.

I´m not talking about ¨grunge¨, Fnarf, whatever that is. I´m talking (and not chiefly) about the musical component of an in-city underground culture. If you want names, I´m talking about Modest Mouse (back in the day), Nirvana, Joel R.L. Phelps, Blue Scholars, Blood Brothers, At the Spine, IQU, Pleeseasaur, Sleater-Kinney, the Gossip and the Hunches (another annex, Portland/Olympia). None of this has anything to do with a packaged notion of copycat bands in ragged flannel, or to do even with the mediation of these bands. Were you in Seattle after 1995? Aren´t you too young to buy the grunge label?

As far as the idea of any genre of music ¨doing damage¨ goes, go back to sleep, Grandpa.

Modest Mouse sucks. Nirvana had two good songs. Joel R. L. Phelps provided me with the single most boring evening of my life. Sleater-Kinney were screechy and horrible.

The only good band to come out of the area was Beat Happening. And the Crabs. Tullycraft. Lois Maffeo. One or two others. The rest is just one loud suck after another.

Modest Mouse does suck.