Slog: News & Arts

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1

wow, so this is what it feels like to go to the principal's office!

but I was hoping for a hot, sexy, Gageman type of principal in a cheap suit but with a killer body...

Posted by michael strangeways | January 24, 2008 1:35 PM
2

Isn't rudeness kind of normal for Stranger readers? And for that matter, Stranger writers? It's one of the reasons I read The Stranger.

Posted by Gitai | January 24, 2008 1:36 PM
3

It's still cool to tell you to get over yourself, right?

Posted by elenchos | January 24, 2008 1:37 PM
4

You're letting them get to you.

Which means they've won. Surely you can see that?

However appalling Ecce's comments are, deleting them just draws attention to them. Hateful comments stand out as hateful on their own, and draw poison towards their makers, not their targets.

Unless they're mine, of course, in which case I score a bullseye every time. But you'll notice that despite my alias (which is a name I answer to in public), my email address is authentic and my criticisms have a point to them.

Posted by Fnarf | January 24, 2008 1:40 PM
5

Wait a sec. You mean to tell me that people use FAKE email addresses? Mine's all real. 100%.

Posted by Michigan Matt | January 24, 2008 1:41 PM
6

You don't owe explanations to anyone, Erica. It's the Stranger's blog & they (with your input) make the rules.

You are right far more often than you are wrong (but when you are wrong, you do it big-time [HRC]; but that's a topic for another day

Posted by Perfect Voter | January 24, 2008 1:45 PM
7

Erica, all due respect, but having skin this thin is a bad idea, what being on the internet. The steel-box-induced isolation that causes car drivers to be rude and inconsiderate to each other, is the same isolation that allows semi-anonymous commentators to be inconsiderate. Someone looking for community is not going to find it here. By deleting posts, and re-posting about the controversy, you just amplify the trolls.

One overcomes the internets' fuckwads galore via awesomeness, instead of affected dwelling.

Posted by nbc | January 24, 2008 1:46 PM
8

Ew. That's terrible. For God's sake, force people to register.

We've done it on Seattlest, and even though comments are way down, I'd rather have just a few comments by intelligent people than provide an outlet for the insane ramblings of misogynistic psychos.

Posted by Seth Kolloen, Seattlest Editor | January 24, 2008 1:47 PM
9

Um, ECB, I was there when the Internet was created (ARPA*Net at SFU) and I kind of think the Constitution was written almost 200 years before that ...

But it's implied, as modern blogs are the same as publishing was when they could post handbills and people could write on them in the town square, next to the witch dunking pond and the stocks for people who didn't agree with their brand of Protestantism (ok, except in the majority Germanic-speaking Quaker areas).

Posted by Will in Seattle | January 24, 2008 1:48 PM
10

No one has a God given right to shoot their mouth off on this private site. I think the Slog has been braver than most Blogs in living by the dictum that "the blog that governs best governs least." If a small handful of Trolls like Ecce abuse the hell out of the free platform you've provided you are damn right to take away their soapbox.

The Slog remains Seattle's most interesting and entertaining blog because the writers and editors actively work to provide and maintain a high level of content. Keep it up.

Posted by Gurldoggie | January 24, 2008 1:48 PM
11

Oh, wait, we didn't do it on Seattlest, that was just me trying to get you to visit my site.

My bad.

Posted by Seth Kolloen, Seattlest Editor | January 24, 2008 1:50 PM
12

Will, does the Constitution guarantee that anyone can write whatever they want in someone else's paper?

There should be a law that the isp and any other information available should be given to a person attacked by name by an anonymous poster.

Posted by whatever | January 24, 2008 1:56 PM
13

My two cents: I love Slog and think that your open-comment policy is awesome, even if a few goofballs (and worse) can't restrain themselves. I live in New York City and wish we had something analogous here, but unfortunately I think we're all a bit too deranged.

Posted by thegayrecluse | January 24, 2008 1:59 PM
14

As someone who has received my fair share of wrath from blogs I agree with Erica whole heartedy. People who put off topic, mean-spirited , racist, sexist, and homophobic comments on a blog deserve to be deleted. I wish that would have happened in my case.

Posted by maxine | January 24, 2008 2:00 PM
15

As an innocent bystander, it seems to me that ECB gets way more than her share of derogatory comments. I don't understand the vitriol. (sometimes, sure, but it's pretty constant)

Posted by Tizzle | January 24, 2008 2:01 PM
16

I wish they applied the same standard for Stranger staff that they do the Sloggers...

Posted by Cato the Younger Younger | January 24, 2008 2:03 PM
17

Hey, ECB, fuck you.

Get a grip or get a new job. You work for the Stranger, not the PI. Your fan base is going to be just as ignorant and even more critical than you are, with all of the gross insubordination and ad hominem attacks dingy comments will bring.

Do you really give a shit about anything we have to say in the comments? Why? With your post line-up, you shouldn't be the least bit surprised that you have enemies, or fans who like to poke fun at you.

Seriously. You shouldn't give two shits about what anybody thinks about you or what you write, so long as we're still reading it. Nobody here hates you. Now if you're done being a victim, go ahead and delete this post and every other post you find offensive, go home, curl up in a ball by the space heater, and cry. We'll be here in the morning.

Posted by Mr. Poe | January 24, 2008 2:08 PM
18

look, i made one of the highlighted rude comments ("get over your fucking self") and it was inappropriate to do it and i apologized to Erica via email.

it doesn't really help my "cause" (the feeling that Erica constantly misrepresents Obama's stance and is blatantly pro-HRC), it makes me sound like an idiot. it's childish.

take a look over at Horsesass if you want to see how "fun" it is when things completely devolve into slash and burn. you get a terrible feeling about humanity and no real discussion.

Posted by grznt | January 24, 2008 2:10 PM
19

ECB's posts get a lot of comments. That's good for the stranger. You hate her. That's good for the stranger. You're playing into their little game. hahahahahahaa. fools.

Posted by superyeadon | January 24, 2008 2:12 PM
20

I guess I just don't have that 'thing' where I care about what other people think of me or anything I do or say. That 'thing' doesn't make much sense to me. I'll never understand it, so I guess I should respect that I don't understand it and leave it at that.

Delete away. Nobody's stopping you.

Posted by Mr. Poe | January 24, 2008 2:17 PM
21

When I talked to Amy Kate at the last Slog Happy Hour, she mentioned that posters typically pick up on the most insulting comments and rip the troll a new asshole. It's self-correcting. You don't need to be as concerned with anonymous wankers posting insults on Slog as you are.

Ecce homo is a notorious Slog fucktard, a veritable font of whiny bullshit and fevered invective. However, his addled rantings are no more offensive than anything you'll hear on XBox Live, or see in any anonymous forum. Ignore them. They want attention becuase it validates their sad existence, and even negative attention makes their shriveled little hearts quicken. If you must delete a comment, do it and say nothing. They're not worth mention. Really.

Posted by Greg | January 24, 2008 2:18 PM
22

There are some particularly nasty trolls here someties.

Posted by Andrew | January 24, 2008 2:20 PM
23

i love the slog! i appreciate that i do not have to register (though i always use the same name and actual email address), and appreciate how liberal the posting policy is.

some of those insults are terrible. there is no way to excuse them or justify them. i think there are a few factors surrounding the high frequency of them:

1. sexism. some people are just less respectful to women. it's wrong and there is no other way around it. it gets worse when a woman dare post about "real" topics (not just music or fashion or art) on the male-dominated internet.

2. divisive issues (often relating to sex). since erica posts on hot topics, there are strong opinions that result. on the internet, people are not always nice when "debating" divisive issues.

3. thin skin. i'm not sure what it is, but some people are "targets" for bullies. i know, because i was one in elementary school. maybe it's defending yourself, or addressing the insults at all. i'm not sure what it is. it's not right, but somehow bullies can tell who to bother, and they choose erica.

Posted by infrequent | January 24, 2008 2:21 PM
24

Wow, just wow.

You really need to get a thicker skin.

Maybe a few of those comments hit a little too close to home.

You make inflamatory posts and then are offended when people flame you back? Spare me.

This is exactly the problem with yuppies in Seattle. You can't see how good you have it, and at the same time you are consumed with your own imaginary marginalization. Boo Hoo...

Who'd a thunk I'd agree with Poe.

Posted by ecce homo | January 24, 2008 2:24 PM
25

charles just doesnt respond to the breaking down of his idiotic ramblings. ecb tries to defend them feebly. they are both the worst writers for the stranger, not based on their writing ability, but rather on the reasoning in their writing. sure we all make logical leaps, but they take it to a level that makes all of question their integrity

Posted by Bellevue Ave | January 24, 2008 2:24 PM
26

uh, I agree with Mr Poe. ECB didn't remove mean/inappropriate posts made by one Slogger to another, (which happens on an hourly basis), she removed nasty comments made about HER.
So, it's not about principles or appropriate behaviour, it's all about someone with more power, getting back at someone with less power because their feelings got hurt.

Posted by michael strangeways | January 24, 2008 2:25 PM
27

Wow, just Wow...

My email is a real as you.

I didn't realize that my comment hit such a nerve.

Typical Seattle yuppie BS. You don't realize how good you have it cause you are constantly complaining about your own imaginary marginalization. Cry me a river.

Posted by ecce homo | January 24, 2008 2:26 PM
28

Some people take the comments too seriously. But I read the constitution: you do NOT have a right have your feelings protected.

If one puts themselves out in a public forum and allows people to make comments about what they have posted, well one tends to get all sorts of shit thrown at them.

I would advise either a tougher skin (ECB tends to delete much more than anyone else at the Stranger) or stop posting on Slog.

Posted by Cato the Younger Younger | January 24, 2008 2:27 PM
29

hay erica, i'm strait. strait like hormooz, babey.

Posted by frede | January 24, 2008 2:29 PM
30

@26

Very, very well said.

Posted by Mr. Poe | January 24, 2008 2:34 PM
31

Oh BTW, on Sunday one slogger compared me to a Nazi for changing my mind on my support between Hillary and Obama. Oddly that comment never got deleted....(I did challenge the person who made that remark to meet me at Starbucks on Sunday to discuss and they never showed up)

Bottom line is if you cann't handle the heat in the kitchen perhaps you should remove yourself.

Posted by Cato the Younger Younger | January 24, 2008 2:35 PM
32

Infrequent @23's point #2 really hits the nail on the head. Erica posts a lot on contentious topics, and as a result probably gets more than her share of heated, angry and/or rude comments.

But honestly, that's why she's one of my favorite Stranger writers. I've left some pretty snarky/angry comments on her posts, but only because the topics she chooses to post on and the positions that she takes provoke me to strong reactions.

Posted by Hernandez | January 24, 2008 2:35 PM
33

ecb might need tougher skin -- but to be fair no other staff member gets the same kind of heat as she does, which might be why she deletes more posts. well, maybe eric does occasionally (who also defends himself).

Posted by infrequent | January 24, 2008 2:35 PM
34

I agree with superyeadon in that I laugh at the haters. They're fish flakes.

Agree with Poe, too (without the all the fuck yous and such). Who gives a fuck what the commenters come at you with? They're just trying to distract you from what you're doing. You can't give too much of a christ about it.

Posted by Lloyd Clydesdale | January 24, 2008 2:36 PM
35

As someone who's been posting comments on teh Interwebs for, well, probably not as long as Will In Seattle, but for longer than there's been an actual World Wide Web (UseNet, anyone?), Erica I completely sympathize.

Sometimes the sheer volume of senseless, inane, bigoted, and hurtful invective can get to a person, regardless of how thick a skin they've developed over time. BUT, you have to get used to it, if you want to stay "in the game" as it were.

Remember, most of the trolls don't know a thing about you, aside from what they see in print. They don't know you as a person, they have no interest in knowing you as a person in fact, and the hate they spew is much more a reflection of their own prejudices, neuroses and social dysfunctions than they are of you or your position on any given subject.

If they had anything of value to contribute, they would - the fact that peurile caterwauling is ALL they can dredge up tells you all YOU need to know about THEM.

Posted by COMTE | January 24, 2008 2:37 PM
36

I think Dan does need more dicks in his mouth.

And why would any straight guy want to have sex with such a toad?

Posted by SlogWorthy | January 24, 2008 2:41 PM
37

This is precious. Fake names? On the Internet? Oh, my delicate sensibilities can't handle it!

I must admit that I think your dwelling so much on the particularly nasty, over-the-line comments and complaining about impoliteness makes it easier for you to dismiss the more substantive reasons you often inspire animosity.

Posted by tsm | January 24, 2008 2:42 PM
38

"no other staff member gets the same kind of heat as she does"

Maybe it's because no other writer is as closed-minded and consistently wrong as she is.

Posted by Clint | January 24, 2008 2:44 PM
39

I don't post much on Slog because of the awful comments. Trolls consistently derail any conversation that might be happening. A lot of the comments really make me sick and angry. And you know what? I'm NOT going to "grow a thicker skin." Why should I? Why should I have to change and become callous, while it's somehow sacrilege to call assholes assholes and say what they're doing is wrong? Why shouldn't THEY have to change? Sure, they're not going to, but neither am I. I've been on the internet for years, and I have tried to grow a thicker skin, but it would require me to a) not actually care about anything and b) abandon my moral sensibilities. I'm not going to turn off my empathy when I turn on my computer.

And the attacking of trolls is not "self-correction." As soon as you start "correcting" the trolls, they've already won by hijacking the thread. They just want attention, and people here are happy to give it to them.

You don't have the right to say whatever you want on someone else's blog. You do have the right to get your own blog (they're free!) and say whatever you want.

And I would suspect Erica deletes more because she gets more sickening, hateful, threatening, abusive comments than anyone else. I don't always agree with what she says, but that's no reason to be cruel, which is how I would characterize a lot of commentators here. No, you're not funny, and you're not edgy, you're just mean and sad.

Something that's made my Slog comment reading experience much better is to immediately skip past a comment as soon as it gets insulting or abusive. I read about 25% of threads. That's sad, and it's nothing for anyone to be proud of, even it's "the way things are."

Posted by exelizabeth | January 24, 2008 2:47 PM
40

Yeah, the overall Trollishness of Slog is starting to make Slog kinda boring.

It would be cool to focus on a bit more substance, rather than vitriol and personal attacks.

Posted by onion | January 24, 2008 2:52 PM
41

I completely second infrequent @23.

Posted by greendyke | January 24, 2008 2:52 PM
42

Again, a glaring argument in favor of disabling commenting on Slog

Posted by just sayin | January 24, 2008 2:54 PM
43

Is this the same ECB that suggested handicapped people not be allowed on express buses? I really thought she'd have bigger balls (figuratively, of course).

Posted by DOUG. | January 24, 2008 2:55 PM
44

Jesus. Don't you realize how big of a boner you're giving He Who Shall Not Be Named?!?! Giving him his very own post?!?!
Teh Trolls. Do. Not. Feed.
That includes deleting, responding, acknowledging the existence of. Just like the stalker who thinks your restraining order is flattering, these people get off on negative attention. It's like your giving them a little pat on the head every time you respond.
I always like it when some ass posts some racist BS and there's just like a collective eye roll and no one even bothers to respond.
Ignore! Ignore! Ignore!

Posted by chi type | January 24, 2008 2:55 PM
45

VERY well said #39.

As for Ecce homo whining about his post being deleted...

Cry more Noob! She has the power and you don't. (I bet that kills you on the inside) Get over your dumb self or post less dumb shit and your posts might not get deleted.

Posted by CodyBolt | January 24, 2008 2:59 PM
46

I actually thing SLOG does a pretty good job of governing comments. You seem to let a fair amount of controversial comment stand, and you delete the most racist and vitriolic comments.

If you were much stricter, and had registration, you'd end up with a sanitized blog. That would be boring, and not very Stranger-like.

If you totally let open the floodgates, you'd end up with something like Horses Ass. I read the blog posts on Horses Ass pretty regularly, but never delve into the comments section. The comments there almost always descend into vicious flame wars. The hatred spewed in the comments there makes my eyebrows curl. It is all but impossible to have any kind of thoughtful discussion.

It makes me wonder what ever happened to respectful disagreement? I might not agree with Erica's views on Hillary, for example. But by reading Erica's posts, I gain some understanding why she feels that way. I've never met Hillary, and don't know her personally. So I accept that my view of Hillary may not be accurate. Nor, I suspect, is Erica's. If we both understand this premise, then we can have a thoughtful discussion about things we disagree on. Which I think is much more productive than calling her a bitch.

Posted by Reverse Polarity | January 24, 2008 3:00 PM
47

Its sad that some people inject so much venom into their posts. I mean you, Poe. You're an intelligent person, so how you think that vicious personal attacks contribute anything to public discourse is something you'll need to work out with your therapist.

No other Slogger gets the abuse ECB gets. Not even Charles' ridiculous offerings of soft porn generate such bile. If ECB wants to wipe all this worthless shit from the comments, it only saves me from carpaling my finger on the scrollwheel.

If you can't articulate your opinion, try taking some time to think about it, rather than resorting to personal attacks.

Posted by gavingourley | January 24, 2008 3:03 PM
48

oh, i don't know about that, (erica getting the brunt of slogger criticism)...people are really mean to charles and adrian and savage as well...i don't see them getting all riled up...charles is too zen to care and adrian and savage feed on it like piranha on a slow moving brazilian child. And if Erica didn't work at the Stranger, she'd probably be just another Slogger, slinging the shit here with all the rest of us on a daily basis.

Posted by michael strangeways | January 24, 2008 3:03 PM
49

deeply personal ad hominem attacks are always unproductive and unwarranted, but you would probably be better served taking on the trolls directly, rather than deleting their comments and posting the periodic reminder of what is / is not acceptable slog commentary. all this finger wagging makes you a more visible target.

Posted by brandon | January 24, 2008 3:04 PM
50

Um, I think the point of her post is that she doesn't actually delete more comments than other people.

Could Dan fit fewer dicks in his mouth if they had thicker skin? Maybe more?

Posted by six shooter | January 24, 2008 3:08 PM
51
It makes me wonder what ever happened to respectful disagreement? ... So I accept that my view of Hillary may not be accurate. Nor, I suspect, is Erica's. If we both understand this premise, then we can have a thoughtful discussion

Does she? You're suggesting a reflective capacity that, frankly, seldom appears in ECB's posts.

Posted by tsm | January 24, 2008 3:09 PM
52

What is the point of a thoughtful discussion on something like SLOG?

Do any of you actually have any power to do anything about anything being discussed? Nope. We are all just spectators cheering for our respective teams.

ECB is the asshole who dumps a beer on the head of a fan of an opposing team sitting in front of her just cause she can. She likes to, in full knowledge and intent, return videos late and then complain about the fee's.

SLOG isn't a salon in 18th century France.

Posted by ecce homo | January 24, 2008 3:10 PM
53

I will restate what I said here:

Ms. Barnett, I think you are a good writer and I think that for some reason people think it's o.k. to dump on you in way that they would never *dream* of doing to Dan or Josh or annie or Dominic. And that's a shame. And it must get tiring. And you don't deserve it- which I said in my comment.

But if you think somebody saying "that person needs to get laid" is a deeply personal attack worthy of censoring, then I think you are never going to get out from under this incessant teasing (to use a benign word for what is, I'm sure, not a benign experience.)

I'm not trying to be Dr. Phil. Do whatcha got to do. But I bet that if you fired back (as Dan and annie do) instead of wielding your editorial pen, you'd see 10x less of it.

Posted by Big Sven | January 24, 2008 3:17 PM
54

"Dan needs more dicks in his mouth."

I think the poster of this message meant to capitalize the D in Dicks to indicate that Dan should eat more of Dick's delicious hamburgers in an effort to gain a little weight. He is getting very thin lately which isn't very healthy in a man pushing 60.

Posted by michael strangeways | January 24, 2008 3:24 PM
55

My suggestion to you and SLOG, Erica, would be to remind commenters of libel and defamation laws and the fact that IP addresses can be traced with a subpoena. While public figures (i.e., all stranger bloggers) are held to a higher standard, unfounded personal attacks can make the commenters subject to prosecution. I'm sure you know this, but apparently many of the Trolls don't. Of course, taking it with it chin up (and nose in the air, in most cases, rightly) is, as many have noted, probably the best policy, at least one example might need to be set just for shits and giggles.

Posted by Gary Indiana | January 24, 2008 3:28 PM
56

Ecce is the scrawny guy who stands at the front of the GA section screaming "Freebird!" every ten seconds, hoping he'll be able to hear himself on the live album.

And I'll bet ECB could totally kick his ass...

Posted by COMTE | January 24, 2008 3:33 PM
57

I think we all have 'that one writer' that, no matter the subject matter, just irks you every time you read a post written by them. For most, it's CM or ECB. For me, personally, I want to vomit every time I even see Jen Graves' name at the top of an entry. LEARN TO USE A FUCKING CUT!

Posted by *gong* | January 24, 2008 3:35 PM
58

Good points, exelizabeth @39 (and @12 on how ECB gets way more bad posts than if she was Dan).

But, actually, under NAFTA, my ISP and TCP/IP address are protected, as are all EU participants by the US-EU treaties on privacy. You can't take away my privacy rights granted by the Canadian Constitution and International Treaties just because you want to.

Posted by Will in Seattle | January 24, 2008 3:36 PM
59

Well I've been redacted by Slog and it wasn't the end of the world. They should filter for comments that are off topic or that are less than sober. (I've combined both.)
The question of insults is trickier. I know I am not the only poster who has been insulted by the stupidity of some the comments. (Not the inane humor or quips and vapid observations but, basic factual ignorance.)Should we really be censored for calling out morons? Is it too much to ask that they read one book on the subject before lecturing the rest of us?
What's interesting though is how much people want to be heard under pseudo nyms. What an outlet for anger blogs are. Most of all the latent spite unleashed in ever polite Seattle.

Posted by Zander | January 24, 2008 3:38 PM
60

I do think Erica experiences a lot more vitriol than everyone else, and I don't really understand why. Furthermore, I think a lot of the comments about Erica are extremely sexist and demeaning. And honestly, while I love reading Slog comments, I often can't read the comments from posts by Erica because so many people just reflexively seem to disagree with anything Erica says, and choose to insult her as opposed to talking about the topic itself.

For what it's worth Erica, I think you're a great writer, and you bring up interesting, complex topics. Keep it up.

Posted by arduous | January 24, 2008 3:40 PM
61

when do pitchers report to camp?

Posted by SeMe | January 24, 2008 3:41 PM
62

@53 - Yeah, the kids who always get picked on are the same kids who cry when they get picked on. Bullies know they will get a rise, so they go back for more.

Ecce getting a post deleted (and then reposted!) certainly gave him a hard-on. He'll be Googling himself for months.

Posted by Mahtli69 | January 24, 2008 3:53 PM
63

"he'll be Googling himself for months." So, that's what all the kids are calling it these days.

And yes, that sounds about right for ecce - at least he's figured out how do that much with a hard-on!

Posted by COMTE | January 24, 2008 3:58 PM
64

Well, people should be happy to know that the Stranger is now blocking entire I.P. addresses

I had to use an anonymizer to post. If anybody else has been blocked, simply search for "surf anonymous proxy" to find 100 simple ways of getting around it.


Posted by Non | January 24, 2008 4:01 PM
65

@66 said: "the Stranger is now blocking entire I.P. Addresses"

Entire IP Addresses??!?! The whole thing?!?! Even the dots?!! OMFG!!

Of course they are. Who doesn't?

Posted by Flerg | January 24, 2008 4:06 PM
66

I don't think that I am being blocked. Given how unpopular my opinions are, I am surprised by this news.

Can it be verified?

Posted by ecce homo | January 24, 2008 4:06 PM
67

Bullies can't shut up.

Posted by Bolluck | January 24, 2008 4:14 PM
68

Whose more of a bully, somebody expressing their opinion on an open "Blog" or someone who uses their unequal power to silence someone they dislike.

By any reasonable definition, ECB is a bully.

Not that I really care too much.

Posted by ecce homo | January 24, 2008 4:17 PM
69

That made no fucking sense, but o.k. Ecce.

Posted by Mr. Poe | January 24, 2008 4:20 PM
70

I think the comments directed at ECB are frequently over-the-top and vile. And sexist -- ECB has the temerity to post about sexism, so sexist assholes respond like... sexist assholes.

I think, however, that we should -- and we DO -- delete sparingly. I like the openness of this forum. I even like -- hell, I *love* -- ecce homo. (MichaelStrangeways? Eh.) But to toxicity of some of the comments can be exhausting for some of the staffers. Wanna know why no editorial staffers have bothered to show up for the Slog cocktail hour? Because after getting slapped at all day in comments they/we don't have much desire for slapping-at in person. And, yes, some of the slaps are meant in jest... all in good fun... but when they come with one asshole comment on either side, well, it can be hard to spot the "fun" ones.

Still, we give. And we get. Some would argue that we're only coming in for a taste of our own medicine... but I would like to see someone produced the posts by edit staffers that are anywhere near as viscous or insulting as some of the crap we see in comments threads.

But there's a power gap here. We have the AWESOME and AMAZING power to post to Slog, not just comment, and the city dances to our tune, you know, because we are ALMIGHTY and ALL POWERFUL thanks to our newspaper--which I edit frequently on the monorail I made the city build between my office and my estate. This perceived power imbalance, of course, between edit staffers and commenters leads some to ramp up the vitrol -- it's a way of balancing things out, some seem to think.

In reality, however, it mostly leads to certain commenters making themselves look like assholes. Which most readers get. And I'm constantly reminding edit staffers that only a small number of readers--Slog has thousands and thousands and thousands of readers--bother to comment. The best policy, I think, for edit staffers is to... post... and stay the hell out of comments. I'm not capable of doing that myself, obviously, but no one is compelled to dip into comments.

But you know what amazes me? The haters that pour over Slog complaining about people that read Slog. Hate our blog? Maybe you could check out one or two of the other blogs out there on the Internets?

Posted by Dan Savage | January 24, 2008 4:21 PM
71

test

Posted by Test | January 24, 2008 4:24 PM
72

It seems like the big problem a lot of people have with ECB is that ZOMG sheís a girl! With opinions that differ from yours! All these people saying she just needs to get some dick, WTF? When did dick become a cure-all for converting people to your side of the argument? Even if I donít agree with her (hello, HRC v. Obama), Iím not going to call her a fucking dumb cunt, just like I donít call friends who disagree with me or sometimes misinterpret things fucking dumb cunts. Common courtesy is also usable on the Internet, try it. I generally try to only say shit on here that Iíd be willing to say to your face. (Which sometimes I can!)

And if every comment thread on her posts, regardless of what they were about, didnít drop into Ericaís supposed lack of sexual activity, maybe this wouldnít be a problem. I thought yíall were supposed to be INTELLIGENT FUCKING ADULTS, not ninth-grade assclowns. I donít give a shit what you think about her, I want to know what you think of THE TOPIC.

So yeah, if other blogs delete comments that simply expound on the dumb-cuntiness of the author/blogmaster and how said person is a worthless piece of shit, why the fuck canít Slog?

This is why registering e-mail addresses is so appealing.

Posted by Jessica | January 24, 2008 4:27 PM
73

Har, ecce, har-har, I say!

That makes about as much sense as walking onto a baseball diamond at a city playfield and crapping all over home plate. Sure, it's a public park, anybody has the right to be there, but when you drop a load in the middle of someone else's game, you shouldn't be the least bit surprised (and you sure as Hell have no right to complain) if one of the players smacks you in the gonads with an aluminum bat.

Posted by COMTE | January 24, 2008 4:36 PM
74

Will's comment @9 that "I was there when the Internet was created (ARPA*Net at SFU)" is the funniest thing I've ever read on the internetz. Sure you were, Will. Simon Fraser? Arpanet? You were what, three? Arpanet started in 1969, at UCLA, Stanford Research Institute, UCSB, and the University of Utah. SFU didn't even have a computing science department until 1973, and you're not 60 years old.

Posted by Fnarf | January 24, 2008 4:36 PM
75

Anything that gets Ecce's panties in a wad cracks me up.
For someone who doesn't "care too much," he certainly slogged a number to times.
That being said, Erica, you are coming off like an old maiden substitute teacher in an unruly classroom. You will never win this battle--don't take it personally.

Posted by Joy | January 24, 2008 4:36 PM
76

I would suggest that Ms. Barnett not let the morons get to her, but it seems it's a bit too late.

Meantime, a question for the morons: Have you nothing better to do than hide behind a shield of anonymity while disgracing the entire freakin' human species?

Look, the concept of free speech refers to "freedom". It does not refer to the absence of value. It's kind of like listening to men complain about the sexism of a ladies' night at the bar, or something. Compared to the history of sexism, we're left to wonder how these men are such pussies. (Damn it! That's sexist, isn't it? Apologies.)

Likewise, given that people have been arrested in recent years because their t-shirt said they didn't like George W. Bush, or they did like Allah, I find it absolutely ridiculous Ecce and Poe should be so incensed about what happens to expressions of absolutely no value. I mean, really, if a person's opinion means so little to them that they cannot be bothered to state it in a useful, communicative manner, what respect do the rest of us owe it?

So perhaps Ecce and Poe would like to list their places of work. Maybe, then, The Stranger could send the public intern down to yell and cuss at and insult them at work, and we'll see how long before the poor kid is either thrown out or arrested. What's that? Poe and Ecce don't work where people expect to be able to speak freely? That's their problem. When the cat shits on the rug, it's annoying, but it's not like I'm going to beat her or rub her nose in it. When my kid smeared shit all over the walls, it was annoying, but it wasn't like I was going to beat her or cuss her out. But that's my cat. And a two year old (at the time). I think we have the right to expect more of people who purport to be thinking adults.

Having said that, however, I would ask Ms. Barnett to consider the possibility that, barring open threats of violence and other extremely problematic issues, the reader comments ought to be left as intact as possible. When people like Ecce and Poe (and others, of course) make spectacles of themselves on behalf of the petty, vapid, and pathetic, they are a testament to what's wrong with human nature, and whence come seemingly stupid myths like Original Sin. The story of humanity includes some incredibly ugly things, like, say, Hitler. It also includes some stunningly ridiculous things, such as George W. Bush, the Congressional Democratic leadership, the guy who threw his kids off the bridge in order to get back at his wife for not being happy about his having an affair, and two-bit morons making complete fools of themselves for no good reason.

I consider humanity an impressive development in the Universe. But we should always remember exactly how worthless we can make ourselves. Thus people like Ecce can actually contribute to the species by reminding us all of what we're evolving away from.

Posted by bd | January 24, 2008 4:42 PM
77

I've noticed that the abusive comments toward ECB get worse when she points out male privilege, sexism and misogyny in her posts. Not that its totally missing in the comments on her "newsy" posts, either. Some men don't like it when women suggest that women are actually human. Instead of thinking about and accepting their entitlement, they'd rather insult her looks, her sex life, her sexuality, and so on.

I think they are assholes, and I generally skip their posts. 'Cause, honestly, there's already enough male entitlement in my life.

Posted by elm | January 24, 2008 4:43 PM
78

Ecce's post's cease the day the Dome Stadium Tavern's Apple II craps itself.

Posted by Lloyd Clydesdale | January 24, 2008 4:49 PM
79

Ok, I know the developing Fnarf vs. Will in Seattle Al Gore Memorial Smackdown* is completely off-topic, but powers-that-be please don't delete it.† This should be good.

(runs off for popcorn...)

* See @74 and @9.

Posted by lostboy | January 24, 2008 4:50 PM
80

I think that the asshats and haters wouldn't have to worry that their vile musings might get deleted if they didn't post such stupid infantile dreck. Many of the posters here are reasonable and funny and offer something worth reading, most of the time. It's cool with me if the people who run the thing decide to lay the smackdown on something they feel crosses the line. Trolls act all wounded, as if what they say is some important meaningful shit or something, it really never is.

Posted by pissy mcslogbot | January 24, 2008 5:00 PM
81

Fnarf, it wasn't fully rolled out until the 70s, which is when we went from 110 baud to 300 baud modems and then around 1980 we did 1200 baud. And I was coding in my teens on paper punches.

I count CERN beamtime and HTML as the beginning of the Net, even if I FTP before that.

That said, ECB gets way more flak than any of the guys do for saying pretty much the same thing. Which is probably unfair, IMHO.

Posted by Will in Seattle | January 24, 2008 5:06 PM
82

Dan-

I can certainly understand why you guys wouldn't want to necessarily hang out at the SLOG hour. But just for the record: people are waaaaaaaay nicer face to face at Moe's then they are on the SLOG. I was dreading seeing Will in Seattle or original andrew, worried that either of them might take a (well deserved) swing at me. Turns out- nicest guys you could imagine.

None of this means you should hang with us. But I hope all the Stranger staffers realize that people really appreciate the SLOG, and many of the excesses are a result of a surfeit of enthusiasm and passion.

Except for Issur. That guy's a big fucking douche.

Posted by Big Sven | January 24, 2008 5:07 PM
83

Why must one resort to being rude and obnoxious?

It is just dull and lazy.

It really is.

Posted by homage to me | January 24, 2008 5:13 PM
84

My cat's breath smells like cat food.

And another thing--accusing us of using false names is an affront to the entire NapoleonXIV family.

Grrr......

Posted by NapoleonXIV | January 24, 2008 5:15 PM
85

ECB doesn't owe anyone justification for the things she deletes. I would delete Ecce too if I could. He bores me.

On much more interesting topics, I'm pretty sure that Will in Seattle had the time to develop the ARPAnet in his youth just after indulging in hot prison sex and just before his work on the 100-story residential towers in Vancouver.

Posted by Gurldoggie | January 24, 2008 5:16 PM
86

Lately the misogyny on Slog has really increased in virulence. I guess it's HRC who's tipped some of these sexually-delayed guys into compulsive display. For me as a reader, it becomes the reading equivalent of stepping in poop. Hello, "ecce homo," Dr. Freud calling: "I ain't afraid of NO woman. I could and would totally kick the shit out of one if I had to" (Ecce Homo elsewhere in today's Slog comments). Behold the man, indeed. Must I?

I say delete the posts that are threatening and violent. Dan, ECB, Christopher Frizzelle, Amy Kate Horn: Go forth and edit when you know it's obscene, that is, ob-scene, outside the scene, outside the discourse.

Posted by Sarah | January 24, 2008 5:18 PM
87

@25, 26 and 51 share my feelings.

ECB you have to admit your posts have not been very objective. It's frustrating to see you have a platform to spew your one sided close minded vitriol (HRC for example), and then have the audacity to whine when those with superior intellect, logic and reasoning tears you a new one.

The hatred shown here by some has nothing to do with your vagina or your editorial/decision making style in deleting posts. It has more to do with the fact that you come across as someone who has the correct opinion everytime, and we are just too dumb to "get it".

When people respond, it is one thing if they just get personal to get a rise out of you. It is another thing if they have an opposing opinion, and they rip you because you have weak supporting logic. There is no reason to leave those posts up if they are attacking the individual and not the message.

Much of the issue has more to do with you trying to act smarter than what you actually are. Let's face it Erica, it truly might be the case that you don't have the intellectual horsepower to compete with some here. We aren't all created equal in the raw intelligence, wisdom, and maturity department. Some things can be improved, but raw intellect isn't one of them.

That former paragraph isn't meant to be a disrespectful jab, but rather just an objective opinion of someone who doesn't post here often.

Posted by something to chew on | January 24, 2008 5:23 PM
88

Fnarf-

WIS invented Al Gore. Everyone should shower him with attention.

Posted by Zander | January 24, 2008 5:28 PM
89

Will, you can "roll out" all the jargon you want, but you were NOT present at the birth of the internet, or anywhere near it, at SFU or anywhere else, which is what you said. Arpanet wasn't "rolled out". It started at the four sites I mentioned, and gradually spread through various universities. That is NOT what "rollout" means. And SFU was never an important player.

Whether you played with 300 baud modems or not, which I doubt, is immaterial to the level of factual truth in your earlier statement, which is zero.

I have no doubt that you count HTML and "CERN beamtime" (presumably with tinfoil hat) as the beginning of the net, but again you are wrong. The internet was 25 years old by then, usenet 20. Whether or not you ever used punch tape (as did I, 1974, whoopie) is immaterial to your grossly flawed understanding of how the internet developed and your own massively significant role in it. As is your grossly flawed understanding of every fucking other thing in the universe.

You see, the sad thing isn't just that you're full of crap; it's that you feel this need to associate yourself with important events. Nobody gives a shit if you punched tape or used FTP. It's NOT THAT FRIGGING COOL. And by exaggerating so transparently you call your entire existence into question. I for one no longer believe that you're even a Slog commenter.

Posted by Fnarf | January 24, 2008 5:38 PM
90

This is all a big ruse to distract us from the fact that Ecce and Dan are the same person.

Posted by Mahtli69 | January 24, 2008 5:46 PM
91

@72 -

Common courtesy is also usable on the Internet, try it. I generally try to only say shit on here that Iíd be willing to say to your face.

Okay - I will take a different view. Real life conversation demands a degree of withholding that is vital if we're not going to be fighting on a routine basis, but also has its own drawbacks.

Now, there are some things said here that are obviously beyond the pale and serves no good purpose. But one of the Internet's best qualities is, for example, that you can explicitly tell someone that you think they're an asshole for believing something about people like you that you know is not true, rather than having to silently fume and keep it to yourself just to avoid drama, or a punch. It's what you really wanted that person to hear, and it won't - or at least shouldn't - kill them to hear it, even if it is impolite. Ideally, such comments can stand or fall on their own merits.

Posted by tsm | January 24, 2008 5:50 PM
92

I honestly don't know why ECB is being such a little whiner about this. I just re-read her slog entry and it was just pathetic.

I can only assume that someone that is so fragile yet so full of themselves is a constant anxious mess. I can't imagine that the constant fear of rejection or desperate need to be correct doesn't result in regular panic attacks when they are combined with writing for an irreverent gay magazines who flaunts it's lack of respect for feminist mores by publishing pages of escort adds.

I pity you ECB.


I may end up taking a break from SLOG after all this. I feel bad for causing you to have a little breakdown.

Posted by ecce homo | January 24, 2008 5:50 PM
93

Erica's not the only one who would be relieved if you did, Ecce. The sooner, the longer, the better.

Posted by Fnarf | January 24, 2008 6:08 PM
94

Of course you wouldn't, ecce, because that would require possessing the ability to view the world from another person's perspective, something we like to call "empathy", a concept which your arrested-adolescent, self-absorbed, maladjusted personality seems to be completely incapable of grasping.

So please, don't let that screen-saver hit you in the ASCI on your way out...

Posted by COMTE | January 24, 2008 6:18 PM
95

wow, Dan, that's pretty bitchy, considering I've never attacked another person on here unless I was attacked first and did it in self defense and I've never said anything as cruel to you, or about you, as you just did to me. (ok, cruel is a little harsh; bitchily snarky)

I'd also like to point out, that a lot of people READ SLOG because of all the shit the posters post. If all the shit stirrers, big and small, on here STOPPED posting and no one stepped forward to replace them, you'd have a SLOG about as exciting as the Seattle Weekly's. I'm not excusing the bad behaviour of some people on here and I don't think people should have the right to run riot but it seems like the Stranger staff would like to have their cake and their pie, and eat both without fear of getting fat or suffering indegestion. And like you, I could make a shitty reply in rebuttal to the snarky remark about me, but unlike you or Erica or anyone else at the Stranger, I don't have the power to remove your comment, or anyone elses, if I don't like it or if it hurts my feelings.

Posted by michael strangeways | January 24, 2008 6:59 PM
96

As a recent semi-troll (but with a good heart, really) around here, I would like to state that this is possibly the most pathetic, boring comment thread I've ever read on Slog.

Any of you who are even spending a nano-second of brain time on this issue, and can then look at yourself in the mirror and convince yourself that you have an emotional capability of above the age of, oh, say, 11, are in some serious need of some equally therapeutic help. Like, yesterday.

It's fun - but it's also am ultimately worthless, pointless BLOG site, people. Get with the program. Jeez.

Posted by Wowza | January 24, 2008 7:42 PM
97

I had a dream about ECB last night in which she posted pictures of me naked and made fun of them. It was hurtful. So I guess now I have insight into the mentality of every troll who thinks "she just needs to get laid" is a productive comment.

Posted by Kiru Banzai | January 24, 2008 9:01 PM
98

in direct response to this blog, erica, you are a fucking hack. you've edited your blog posts post-reader-comments numerous times, and now you've deleted a reader's comment about your blog. why the fuck do you care what anyone thinks about you or your 'writing'? should anything anyone says that pisses you or your precious co-workers off be free kill for you lions (or should i say 'pussies')? but then, why should we expect anything else from a biased rag edited by a sex-advice columnist.

Posted by Erica Homo | January 24, 2008 9:11 PM
99

It's okay folks, ecce's just been drinking again.

Either that, or he's a masochist, on top of all his other personality defects...

Posted by COMTE | January 24, 2008 10:24 PM
100

100

Posted by ecce homo | January 24, 2008 10:32 PM
101

101

Posted by COMTE | January 24, 2008 10:50 PM
102

Seems to me that there's a very easy solution. Note, that while I presume the following is available technology, I don't know for sure that it is.

Why not create an optional registration system, under which any registered user can set preferences -- including to filter out specific commenters?

That way, nobody has to be censored, and nobody has to be offended by commenters at whose comments they're bound to take offense.

Oh yeah, the other really easy solution: IGNORE THE TROLLS. How fucking difficult is it to grasp that concept?

Posted by shitbrain | January 24, 2008 10:56 PM
103

@102:

Old style comment thread apps used to have something along the lines of what you describe - it was colloquially known as a "killfile". You would enter a specific user name or account into the file, set a few parameters that would determine what to do with posts from that account, and - viola! If you so desired, you'd never have to read another word posted from that user.

Very valuable tool the killfile.

Posted by COMTE | January 24, 2008 11:12 PM
104

104.

Posted by Mr. Poe | January 24, 2008 11:32 PM
105

I really thought the pig vivisection would get more attention.

Posted by NapoleonXIV | January 24, 2008 11:52 PM
106

Right on, ECB! Keep it open and uncensored though.

If some of the people coming to the meeting show up popping bubble gum and wearing beanies with pinwheels - well - that just a risk in this great public forum.

Posted by Bauhaus | January 25, 2008 12:13 AM
107

Lurker here. I don't really care if these assorted insulting, misogynistic trolls make up the majority of the conversation, but do realize that it's the liberal posting policies that produce such a particular circle jerk of assholes. That is, you create a very specific group, because I certainly don't want to post with these guys around and I'm sure there are others who feel the same way. It's like a comment board of Fred Phelps and Christopher Hitchens (more or less): the rest of us are going to stay the fuck out. These "debates" are certainly spirited, I suppose. I just want to make sure you know you're responsible for this state of affairs, and that you can at least make a conscious decision to maintain the status quo (if you so desire)--rather than assuming that being liberal in your policies means you're making room for everyone at the table.

Then again, the rest of us actually have lives, so we couldn't create the little 24/7 club these boys (and a few girls) have going. Eh, whatever.

Posted by Debbie | January 25, 2008 1:22 AM

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