What, are you outing trannies now too? C'mon, Dan, leave this mannish gal alone.
Why do you like making fun of someones sexuality or perceived sexuality? Is it cause she goes to church that you feel justified being a prick about her?
@ 2, why do you feel justified about being a prick on Slog? Maybe you're Dan's dark mirror.
Hmmm...could be a man (or former man), then again maybe not. If she is some kind of post-op, whatever, she was good with a gun when she needed to be. Hard to make fun of someone who just did something quite heroic and probably saved a lot of lives. Then again, what would Slog be if we didn't make fun of church people?
why do churches need armed security guards?
@ 5, uh, in light of what went down do you really need to ask?
" Then again, what would Slog be if we didn't make fun of church people?"
sarah conner lives.
I was just sayin she seemed like a major dyke. But now that Dan mentions it ... And yes, it does matter when it comes down to it. A tranny or ex-dyke saving the day would be a pretty big deal at a bigoted church, even if she's claiming ex-gay or whatever.
I figure if the MSM won't out our gay President or all the others, why should they out the guard?
Silly me. Picking on people, making fun, condemning -- that stuff is the exclusive right of churches and the churched. "You're going to hell, you're a sinner, you need to repend, only bad people have sex before marriage, God hates you, you, and you." We're just supposed to take it, not give any of it back. Righto.
Oh she's a dyke because she knows how to shoot and she looks masculine? Fuck you! And she certainly wouldn't have Ferron in her ipod if she is so weapon inclined.
Certainly a strong woman must have a penis somewhere...
Yup, have fun lowering yourself to the level of people you despise for the very thing you are lowering yourself to do. Makes perfect sense.
Oh, and what do you tell all the openly gay people who go to various christian denominations? They deserve being shot, and that they are open to riducule?
It ain't a gay thing Dan, it's that you are a bigot of the worse kind. You hate youself for being gay and project that on EVERYONE else. Get some therapy. I'm sure Ira Glass can help pick up the tab.
Yeah in the drawer near her bed. And it is bigger than your teensy dick.
Oh, ecce. I love you.
New Life Church says they have TWELVE armed security guards. Not sure if they were all on duty then, but local Denver media recounts the story from one of the regular members at New Life: He's a Vietnam war vet and was standing next to two MALE security guards who were too chickenshit to fire their pistols at the shooter. He says he begged them to hand him one of their guns so he could "take the shooter out", but they refused. While these men stood there and argued about that, the brave, Guided-By-The-Holy-Spirit FEMALE security guard unloaded her pistol (10-12 rounds) into the shooter and killed him dead. (Go Girl!)
Dan, I don't love you.
How about you just answer the questions.
Cut dear Ecce some slack. He's very sensitive about the churchy types. If only it had worked out between him and Casey Treat, he'd be a much better, happier person. It's one of his secret tragedies.
Ecce, you might have at least called and let me know you were OK. When I didn't hear from you last night, I was afraid you had ended up in the trough at The Cuff again. I'm glad our little talk about boundaries and safe words worked out for you.
An answer of sorts: the anti-gay mega-churches and their leadership, the Haggards and Hutches of this world, have declared war on sexual minorities. We're a danger to the survival of the planet, unfit to marry, unfit to parent, blah blah blah. The appearance of apparent sexual minorities in their midst -- you know, like Ted Haggard -- is therefore fair game. I wasn't at the presser, NSB was. And guess what? The author of the NSB post has two -- count 'em, ecce! -- two lesbian parents. If he picked up a little dyke vibe, we might have to defer to him on this issue.
But, yes, right on for the security guard -- glad she shot the bastard.
And I still love you, ecce. I'll always love you. Because I am you remember. Mysterious, isn't it, how I'm always on Slog when you are. Just sayin'.
Now, ecce, that Dan's answered your question you might as well answer mine @ 3.
On another note, you made fun of her appearance as not matching a gender stereotype. Erica must be plotting your death already.
As a female Army officer, I can tell you that there are a lot of tough, awesome women out there who are not lesbians. I'm all in favor of gay rights, but I don't think promoting the stereotype that all women who are not conventionally feminine are lesbians helps either lesbians or butch straight girls.
It's been a whole day, and Mike Jones hasn't claimed to have had sex with anybody in this story. I lost $10.
I am not a prick,
I am just not a Dan Savage lemming...
And Dan, as I am sure you are aware, not all churches are of the type you describe (eg fundy haters). In fact, a majority are not.
I guess you are no better than Hutch for ignoring the qualities of the majority of in order to score points with your tribe for beating up on the minority.
Casey treat is gay, I am POSITIVE about THAT.
twelve armed security guards. wha? is church-going that dangerous? is this SOP at all large places of worship (e.g., st. peter's, salt lake city mormon temple, crystal cathedral, mars hill)?
ecce homo is terry miller
I imagine any large gathering of 5,000 has a passel of security guards. There's always going to be loons, either within the congregation or gatecrashers, with mental problems or grudges or whatever.
As for this woman, give her a break. She just killed someone, and witnessed a horrendous scene. Neither is an easy thing for even the most jaded cop. She's obviously suffering.
Reminds me of the story of Ja-el, from the book of Judges. Killing people is a spiritual gift.
This is not a major figure in the church. The only reason she's in the news is because of her heroism. To then seek to find duplicity in her sexuality makes you a real bastard.
Christianity is a fundamentally amoral religion. The bible simply states that our behavior should be informed by our knowledge of God both through Christ and the Holy Spirit in us (e.g. 1 Thess 4:5). While doing something considered immoral (in an unrepetant or duplicitous fashion) by a leader could not be tolerated, it would not exclude someone from being a security guard or a member of a church. The truth is, whatever her identity or history, there is no evidence of hypocrisy.
Remember poor Richard Jewel? The hero who saved lives after the Atlanta Olympics bombings?
But all the snarkosphere could see was a fat guy who lived with his mother.
@23 I, too, knew a fair number of awesome female Air Force officers who didn't deserve any of this kind of harassment. I can understand why frat boys perpetuate this stuff, but you'd think some people would know better.
Bad slog. Bad Mr. Savage. Have some respect.
I concur with 31. This is astonishingly tasteless, and not because it has anything to do with a fundie church.
Making fun of a woman because she doesn't fit your female mold is just appalling.
Audio from the press conference is here: http://www.krcc.org/krccnews/2007/12/jeanne_assam_hero_of_new_life.php
Yes, ecce, you are a prick. You're not the only one on slog, but you are the only one who displays nothing but bitterness. Give it up already.
Making fun of fundy Christians who are outed having gay meth-addled affairs with prostitutes is one thing. Never not funny.
Making fun of a strong unmarried woman who may or may not be gay or tranny (don't think she's the latter, though I was wrong about ecce's mother, too) just because she (1) is good with a gun and (2) not typically feminine and (3) associated with a fundy church seems like a cheap trick. She isn't a loud-mouthed bigot who was caught red handed in the acts she publicly abhors; she's a woman who did her job and saved lives.
Never say Abs isn't ready to have a chuckle at the expense of fundy bigots caught red-handed. Abs is still goin' strong with her Driscoll "Have You Fucked Me?" campaign. But Abs doesn't see much point in casting suspicion on one's sexuality when that sexuality is only peripherally connected to the story at large. And in this case, we are talking about the outmost periphery.
Mr Savage is usually fairly funny. This was not really especially so.
Ecce: sorry about the mother comment. You know I didn't mean it, but this thread seemed to be lacking a mother comment,* so I jumped into the breach.
*I made this up.
BTW, I believe many large churches will have a police officer on the premises during church hours. I don't know how many have their own armed guards.
its insulting to trannys to imply that one is related to ecce
I concur that tranny/lesbian jokes are offensive.
They're offensive to transgendered women. Can't they be feminine?
They're offensive to lesbians. Again, can't they be feminine?
They're offensive to straight women. Can't they be masculine or even androgenous?
According to reports I read, someone suggested that they add (or increase) security after the earlier shooting on a camp connected to New Life.
This whole thing is ridiculous. Her sexual history and/or orientation is nobody else's business. And as a hired employee of the church she may not necessarily even be a church member or share the religious beliefs of the congregation (someone, of course, will dig deeper into this than I am interested in going and correct me if I am wrong). This woman is simply an ordinary person who did the job she was hired to do. She certainly didn't ask to be placed into the national spotlight.
Oh man, I hate to agree with Ecce Homo on anything (and he lost me after his first comment), but seriously, this was fucked up, Dan. A normal woman gets on TV for doing something out of the ordinary, and the only thing you can do is insult her for not being pretty? For being kind of butch? Her looks shouldn't be fair game. Oh, sure, there are plenty of people who will comment on them, because people are assholes who think that women are public property and as soon as they go in public they should have to take whatever abuse based on their physical appearance that men feel like doling out (I think Fnarf has made this assertion).
She should have worn a burqa for her interview, then her fucking looks wouldn't have mattered. And fuck the reporter for even asking about marriage, like that even matters.
(And I don't care that you're quoting someone else, you still brought attention to this bullshit commentary).
Man, this may be the first time I actually agree with ecce homo. Bizarre!
For the reasons exelizabeth gave.
I swear, some of the crap that has been posted on slog recently makes me really wonder wtf you people have been smoking. It must be tainted with PCP or some equally fucked up shit.
I have to say that I agree with the prevailing sentiment; somehow, this slog posting crossed a line.
I really want my side in this argument to take the higher ground, and this isn't it.
@30... Ja-el??? Wasn't she on ANTM a few seasons back? And she DID look a little mannish.... but i loved her...
Yes! Things do seem a bit skewed here on Slog, as of late...
All you Slog whiners need to keep a few things in mind: 1). New Life Church completely disavowed themselves of Ted Haggard and made no amends whatsoever to the gay community it so gleefully disparaged while Haggard was sucking dick. 2). They hired a new pastor who absolutely refused to meet with Mike Jones, 3). They continue to offer the same kind of bullshit ex-gay prayer groups they did before, 4). I and many of my gay family members and friends called Haggard and New Life culture out on its overtly queer culture long before he got busted, i.e. we were right about him in the end, and I know for a fact that there was way more gay shit going on behind the scenes there than came out in the media from people who used to work there, 5). They trotted this woman out in front of the camera to proselytize--to use her as a justification for their fucking crazy psycho church bullshit because she did what any security guard with a gun, Christian or not, would've done in that situation, 6). She was butch as shit: husky-voiced, incredibly well built, obviously bad-ass, unmarried and without children and in her mid- to late-30s. Hmmm, think she could be an ex-DYKE!?? No offense to the casually offended among you, but I live in this fucking town and I watched them try to parade her out as a soldier of Jesus. Of course she was giving God the credit--she's a recent convert. She had been fasting and was praying for direction from God. Then that shit happened. And yeah, she's a hero. But she still seemed like an "ex"-dyke, and my guess is they wouldn't be having a press conference about THAT if it is/were true.
This evening I went to a high school hockey game where a bunch of dyke moms were talking about her. Their conclusion? Total dyke. And even if she is straight, she certainly isn't Huckabee's model housewife, eh? But I suppose we shouldn't talk about that either while God gets her that husband she's looking for, hmmm?
My only regret is that this woman is still alive.
I kidd! I kidd!
Oops, turns out she's 42! Sounds like a model Christian June Cleaver. I'm sure they'll have her married off and submitting to her man in no time. This from the Colorado Springs Gazette:
A frustrated would-be missionary kicked out of a youth program three years ago appeared to have sought revenge Sunday night by killing four people in Arvada and Colorado Springs, court documents revealed.
Matthew J. Murray, 24, of Englewood, was shot inside New Life Church by a security guard, Jeanne Assam, 42, Sunday afternoon after he fatally shot two sisters and wounded their father and two others, authorities said.
Matthew J. Murray, 24, of Englewood, was shot inside New Life Church by a security guard, Jeanne Assam, 42, Sunday afternoon after he fatally shot two sisters and wounded their father and two others, authorities said.
That's right, not an angry gay, but a "would-be missionary."
We're so fucking mean, aren't we?
Don't come into this house and start bitching about whining.
You are the one who isn't talking about how heroic she is. She is heroic, period. All you can focus on is whether or not she is a dyke, as if its at all relevant. Thats what your little diseased rotten mind can focus on.
Almost as if you don't want to give her credit for doing something that saved lives, but would rather belittle her by implying her relationship with Jesus, God or New Life is hypocritical with your "Gaydar".
And by the way asshole, I just found out that the cousin of a VERY GOOD friend of mine was killed in the incident in Arvada. So attempting to diminish this act in ANYWAY is disgusting and revolting. Think about how you might feel.
Oh and before you start your complaining about how "You live there" blah blah blah: I grew up in the Springs. Went to New Life when it was out on Centennial and had some good laughs at TAG. So I do understand your hatred of these people.
But your hatred for these people comes out in a most disgusting way. Grow up.
Dan, that the author of the NSB post has two lesbian parents does not excuse him, or you, from this stupid, sexist, heterosexist post. You misfired badly with this one.
Go fuck yourself, ecce. I grew up in this town with queer parents. I lived under their fear and hatred. Your "cousin of a a VERY good friend" got killed by a "would-be missionary" not by a queer.
Yeah, she's a hero. But they're dragging her out to proselytize. As I said: she did what any sane, non-spurned-would-be-possible-ex-dyke security guard with a gun would have done.
Oh, and fuck you again.
And newspeakblog, none of that gives you the right to play the gender police. What a terrible way to make your point.
But the fact that she killed a guy gives New Life the right and the opportunity to drag this butch 42-year-old hero out to talk about God and her future husband. They're milking this butch woman, who they want to stand up there and say, "Oh I hope little old God finds me a little old husband" for fucking publicity for their homophobia and their sexism!!!!!
You are so fucking ignorant of how this shit plays out in reality, it's fascinating.
"Gender police"! Tell that to all the dyke moms cackling about this at the hockey.
Sorry if I'm pissed about superstitious male douchebags using this woman for their completely homophobic and sexist charade, Irena.
Man I love it when Ecce comes in and stirs up shit!
Cut the "you're so fucking ignorant" crap, newspeakblog. You're both using her, you're crowing about it, and it's ugly.
I stand by my opinion.
since when has gaydar become the metric of choice for IDing gays and lesbians
Using her to point out New Life's seemingly endless hypocrisy on gender? Sorry.
Hey Newspeak Blog,
Where did you go to high school? Cause I was a gay kid in High School (In district 11) during the Will Perkins era. I survived more hatred, bigotry, and harrasment than you can ever DREAM of.
I don't hate these people, I pity them.
And you playing the queer card sucks my ass. You aren't queer, and I could care less if your parents are. Apparently they taught you a few things a little wrong. Namely, that you can somehow justify using someones sexuality to diminish something else that you disagree with.
You are no better than Haggard, coming in here and being such a dick. This ain't your place, no matter how much you love Dan Savage for letting your monthly mag get some badly needed attention.
How come, when I was back in the Spring 2 months ago, no one had barely heard of your mag? It's because outside of a very few transplants or rejects from Old Farm, no one gives a shit what some over privilidge white kid playing the victim role for his PARENTS has to say about anything.
Go back to school.
And I am serious, where did you go to high school. I'd be interested to know Mr. "I grew up here."
Yes. Your post (and Dan's by extension) didn't target the church, it targeted her.
Considering the tragedy that went down in Colorado Springs yesterday (and the further tragedies this woman prevented), I can't believe that your focus is on "Using her to point out New Life's seemingly endless hypocrisy on gender" -- like this is big news!
The further irony is that you call the commenters here "whiners" for being concerned about gender stereotyping and homophobia. Gosh, what a crime!
In light of what happened, both of these posts comes across as petty and mocking. If there was a message, it got lost.
The posts misfired.
of course everything and everyone is fair game, otherwise whats the point? so we can act morally superior like that infected pusswad douchewad ecce?? jeez slog get a grip, we bitch and therefore we are bitches... your bitterness is the sweetener in my java. give me some bitter sugar people.
And who cares if they parade her out to proseletize? Are you actually shocked at that proposition? This is New Life, dipshit, and this is what they do! Your getting upset that the tiger eats a gazelle, get some perpective.
So apparently, not only is she guilty of hypocrisy because YOU and ALL those hockey game attending dyke mothers think that she may be gay, but she is also incapable of making a choice that you disagree with, because, again, of your "Gaydar".
Get over yourself. She is a hero that saved an untold number of people from being killed. The news reported that the guy was carrying 1000 rounds of ammo with him. So what if she is a missionary wannabe or not (they all are up there and it means in all actuallity, very little)? I suppose that to you, she shouldn't be able to choose her own faith because, as a dyke, she must follow your narrow view of what dykes do or don't believe in. Not every lesbian is going to be Mommy, OK?
Stop trying to pretend that you are progressive, hip, or cool because you don't like New Life. You are and "old hat". Man of us were playing the game years before you knew the difference between little girls and little boys - a distinction that you apparently still have pretty immature views about.
You are a bigot
You are also a homophobe, you just don't/can't recognize it.
Oh, and I just looked at your "Blog".
How about putting up a little more original content and stop ripping off shit you see in the Stranger or on SLOG.
so the other night I was doin' my thang in front of a bunch of hot young christians; and boy were they eating my act up.
I started with "the gays hate you for your god fearin' ways" and "those gay dudes are too busy with anal sex for morals", that really cracked 'em up, let me tell ya.
then I went into the bit about how straight girls who tattoo their backs are just asking to be poked in the pooper. boy howdy, did that ever get a larf.
then I flipped it for real and asked if any of them had ever wanted to eat a gazelle, boy did that get their tiger heads in a tizzy, cause thats what i do, i get people, i'm a people person, as well as a comedian, ask anyone.
though I'm thinkin' of going into the ministry, now that my new meds are working.
ecce to the rimshot...peas out.
"And who cares if they parade her out to proseletize? Are you actually shocked at that proposition? This is New Life, dipshit, and this is what they do! Your getting upset that the tiger eats a gazelle, get some perpective."
And I wrote THIS. It is, as you would say, what I do. Are you actually shocked at this?
I can understand the criticism, "oh, because she's a strong woman she must be GAY?!"
But, here's the thing: no, it's not that. It's that THIS strong woman SEEMS gay (I concur), and in the context of this church, that's hilarious.
in other news: Jodie Foster acknowledges lesbian partner of 15 years in thank you speech.
How dare you insinuate the Jodie Foster is a dyke!
yeah!! thats supposed to be a state secret. hush hush kinda stuff 'tween us muff agents. shhhhh.
@25: "I am not a prick"
Aaand I just snorted coffee out my nose.
You know, I have this shtick where I mock those who would wait about five minutes to jump up and exploit every tragedy or disaster for their own agenda. It's an old one I stole from the masters and still as relevant as ever, unfortuneatly.
But newspeakblog person, you make it impossible to parody.
Dan asked a specific question...
Heavy in the heels
Plump in the pumps
Weight in the wedgies
Meaty in the Manolos
Sorry...I love word games.
I get it. That church just got lucky that an "ex-dyke" acted heroically (rather, did her job) so they secretly could send a message out to all the other dykes that they too can find a husband. Reporters routinely ask about spouses. Then again, maybe she is a dyke and embraces her dyke hood but doesn't want to lose her job in that godforsaken town. This is actually quite interesting. Or maybe she's straight and hasn't had any luck with the boys. I certainly know how that feels! And I also know how it feels to have everyone think you're a dyke when you're simply a strong opinionated chick. I don't know if that insults dykes or heteros more, but I hope she doesn't take this discussion of her orientation too seriously. That's the "risk" you take when you're a strong female in this country.
Who is Hutch?
I am a relative of Jeanne and assure you she is not gay and has always been female.
Have you nothing better to do with your time?
She is a true hero. We are all proud of her!
NSB suggests she's a recent convert. With the "god's gonna find me a man" line, it occurs to me that perhaps she hasn't had much luck finding an acceptable mate. And then it occurs to me that, knowing NLC's views, it may not help her much.
Since we can't talk about her appearance, maybe we can talk about her history as a Minneapolis policewoman.
Ok, then it's ok, because being a hater of women cops is very normal for the SLOG, right?
I totally hate women cops. Doesn't everyone? Please read my blog, www.haterofwomencops.com.
Your just a hack douchebag newspeakblog, desperately seeking attention.
So much so that you produce your 'zine, once a month.
Dan and you really have something in common. I see that now.
Question: Can a boy be a "fag hag"?
I get it now, ecce: you hate our freedom. I should've known.
The appropriate term is "dyke mike," you fucking half-wit. But please, do point us to your blog, sir. I'm sure it's as entirely self-effacing and original as your bloviating posts here on Slog.
If your parents are queer, you're a queerspawn. If both your parents are queer, you're a bothy. If you're just a male fag hag, then you're still a fag hag.
I am not so self absorbed to have a "blog"
"blogs" are SO 2005, cheese dick. You have to be a real arrogant douche to think that anyone gives a shit what you have to say about anything.
And why are you copying the Strangers content in your "blog"? Again, try some original content.
Oh, and Dan is not a Dyke, just so you know. Dyke's have a vagina.
But you are so self-absorbed as to continue posting quite frequently here! I didn't say anything about Dan being a dyke. I said, "If you're a male fag hag, you're still a fag hag."
You obviously REALLY give a shit what I have to say, so that's a good start, yeah? I really like what you have to say!
Linking to content is not copying content, which you might know if you blogged, but since you're so above it. And uh, yeah, I'd say we're guilty as charged in the sympathetic to the Stranger dept. You got me there!
BTW, ecce, I just wanted to get this one last really important point in because I love ad hominem attacks: you're an infinity douche!
See you later, infinity douche!
i'm a little confused: are they now saying the gunman shot himself?
"You Christians brought this on yourselves," Murray wrote, according to the station, which did not identify the site. "All I want to do is kill and injure as many of you ... as I can especially Christians who are to blame for most of the problems in the world."
christians might need some hate speech protection now...
Her moment is over. The cops just announced that yer man topped himself.
Actually, the cops said that he shot himself in the head after being shot 4 times by the guard.
He was on the ground, fataly wounded (he was going to die fairly soon) and decided to kill himself.
At least get the story correct.
Heavy in the Birkenstocks.
So Dan, when are you graduating from 3rd grade?
"We're just supposed to take it, not give any of it back. Righto."
No you dumbass, you are supposed to rise above it and make points based on reason. Not look like an ignorant, prejudiced prick. Not pick on someone who just saved people's lives.
Would you be doing this to the guard who capped an ahole shooting up a gay bar?
No he wouldn't
he'd be slobbering at the prospect of sucking at his cock until heaven came.
Dan Savage is an over rated turd whose best days were when he arrived in Seattle from some oppresive shithole in Michigan. You know, when he used to dress in drag and looked like crap.
Back in the days when he would send college girls hastily drawn notes on bar napkins describing what felching is.
Back when he new what he strength was.
His strength you ask? Being a degenerate and lives his life in the shadows. Go back to the shadows Dan. You make normal and decent people sick.
Light in the loafers,
Heavy in the hat.
I wanna know when she's gonna get her own Playboy spread !!!
Sick world. You people don't have very much to do......the gay-folk will be the ruination of modern American society..watch and see. Security-guard Jeanne might be gay or ex-gay. Who cares? She hates herself for being gay...if she is.
I thought I just came from the dimmest blog on the net...but then I found you plankton. What are you girls?...8 year olds?
Since it was reported, he died of a self inflicted gun wound. 10-12 rounds from her gun went amiss. Loks like a little shooting practice is needed here. At least she tryed. The male guard who was trying to shrink into the basebasement, didn't.
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