All I can say is that I hope Jody Paterson (who used to write for the Times Colonist here in Victoria) gets past all the legal bullshit and gets her brothel opened soon:
EH clearly doesn't know any feminists. Feminists hate prostitution.
Anyway, why would prostitutes in Vancouver advertise their services in a newspaper in Seattle?
Besides, I suspect that call girls, i.e. the ones who advertise, are at less risk of abuse than street prostitutes, who seem to be the primary victims in these kinds of cases.
well it is great how so many people can just dismiss these women as just "hookers" that advertised in the paper.
These women were from broken homes, victims of alcohol abuse, physical abuse and a drug problem which most of the time is not covered outside of Vancouver. I live 2 blocks from the "Downtown East Side" in Vancouver where these women disappeared, it is in the news every day it is a problem many 2010 Olympic supporters would like to have disappear. Just so pretense and illusion of a "World Class City" can continue. To dismiss these women as just hookers along with all the negative views that conveys is sad.
Picton was convicted on only six counts of second degree murder. That is only six of the 61 women that will never be accounted for from the Down Town East Side in Vancouver. Families of these mothers, daughters, sisters, will never never have closure. The dismissal of these women as not worthy of investigation in the late 1990's is one of the most appalling lack of concern for people on record. Federal conservative government has cut funding to help women on the down town east side while this case was happening which is appalling.
This city has given so much attention to redeveloping itself but not much attention and funding to actually help people that are desperate sick and living on the streets. If it had many of these women would still be alive and like some of the lucky women from these streets (survivors) possibly still be alive today.
It is a relief to get a conviction, but there is certainly little closure from this. It addresses only 6/26 charges of murder, and the second degree verdict seems to point to an accomplice. I cannot believe he acted alone, given what went on at that farm.
And of course the central issue, which is the perpetual violence against vulnerable women and the complicity of the state in that cycle, is all but unaddressed. To top it all off, our RCMP have lost their fucking minds.
Yeah, prostitution is a tough one. The issue is exploitation, not just of women, but of girls, boys, and men. It's not just feminists who struggle with it.
But yes, I am a feminist, and I am not in favour of prostitution. I've seen its effects on people very close to me. The life of a streetwalker is not something anyone would wish on a loved one.
So it would be very meaningful for me if the sex trade were to undergo a major overhaul.
I would like to see prostitutes treated more like health-care providers. Why is massage okay, and a handjob taboo? Why is it acceptable to help people on and off the toilet, wash them, care for them and listen to them -- and yet unacceptable to serve their sexual needs? I'll tell you why -- because of sexual taboos. The sooner we get over these, the better.
Not everyone wants to make a living ministering to other people's physical needs. But some people are perfectly okay with it. Is it a surprise that the loved one I referred to, the one who became a prostitute, always dreamed of becoming a nurse? She is a very compassionate person, and cared about her clients. Prostitution was a way for her to take care of people, and it made her feel valued.
Unfortunately, the money she made went to her boyfriend/pimp, who treated her like garbage. She has permanent psychological scars from this period of her life, and she and her daughters still live in poverty.
I sometimes wonder what it would have been like for her if she'd had other options. What if, during this desperate time of her life, she could have found an agency that provided her with a safe environment, screened her clients, and paid her fairly? She wouldn't have had that incident with the guy with the knife, and she would have something financially to show for those years -- her own money, not cash she handed over to her "boyfriend."
The women who died at Pickton's hands were desperate. They deserve more options from a society that regularly turns a blind eye to sexual exploitation.
When I went to SFU, at one point I was invited to a party at his place.
Glad I never went, even though it was just nearby.
The sad thing is our local newspaper, The Peak, had more detailed coverage of this story than the Vancouver Sun or the Vancouver Province, at the time.
Glad it's over.
Posted by
Will in Seattle |
December 10, 2007 1:18 AM
many feminists, especially the new breed of feminists, want to reform prostitution, not end it. there are some people well suited to it, as to porn. where have you been, ecce? you seem like such a trog, judging from most of your posts. and a hater. and so resilient against the distain you encounter here. you intrigue me, but not in a good way.
He might come up for parole but no one is going to give it to him. It was not a first degree conviction which is disappointing to many but he is in for life and has 21 other murder charges to answer for. All this will go on for years and the families and friends of the women killed will have to relive the story over and over.
It is sad that laws and reforms regarding the actions of the police departments only happen after people have been killed. Even the criminal profiler (Rossmo) on this case was dismissed by the police years ago because he said it was a single killer. The same criminal profiled that went on to help profile the identity of the Montgomery County, DC shooters.
So many people were not listened to very early in the Picton case.
Another book that by another friend "Stan Douglas" is
"Every Building on 100 West Hastings"
this book gives some insight into the history of the Down Town East Side in Vancouver.
I'm with you, and I should clarify that it's my impression that most feminists oppose prostitution. It's exploitive in the here and now and many feminists seem to believe that it's inherently exploitive. I mostly disagree. If we could break down those ridiculous taboos, then prostitutes could more effectively stand up for themselves and more easily get out of the life when it suits them.
Any reports that the prostitutes started their careers in the Stranger classifieds, a few pages after Savage Love?
brilliant photo-
http://www.thestranger.com/binary/4fa83651/feature-17621.jpeg
@1 WTF?
These women died and you use their deaths to trash the Stranger.
He will spend a long time in Jail contemplating their deaths and his evilness.
A freind of mine lives in Vancouver and she could see the lights on the farm from her place while they were doing the forensic excavations.
She said it was eerie knowing what they were looking or and having to see those lights for so long (somehting like six months).
All I can say is that I hope Jody Paterson (who used to write for the Times Colonist here in Victoria) gets past all the legal bullshit and gets her brothel opened soon:
http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/story.html?id=01c8a779-7aa8-4462-92d6-0e43a88d5000&k=63643
If prostitution were legal, this obscenity might not have happened.
May those women rest in peace.
@3
I'm not trashing the Stranger, just the prostitution classifieds. Sorry for the mixup.
What does WTF mean?
I wonder how many hookers have been raped, beaten, robbed, stabbed or even killed that have solicited out of the Strangers escort pages.
I suspect, quite a few.
Yet, undoubtedly, some neofeminist lesbian ho bag will defend or tacitly endorse the stranger for being so "Progressive".
Hypocrites
These two animals crack me up:
1.) People who think Colbert is a Conservative.
2.) People who think the Stranger is classy, with tasteful readers and commenters.
All I can say is good riddance, and I feel sorry for anyone in BC who ate pork at any time over the last decade.
EH clearly doesn't know any feminists. Feminists hate prostitution.
Anyway, why would prostitutes in Vancouver advertise their services in a newspaper in Seattle?
Besides, I suspect that call girls, i.e. the ones who advertise, are at less risk of abuse than street prostitutes, who seem to be the primary victims in these kinds of cases.
Of second degree murder! Gee, I guess you can kill 49 women but as long as they're prostitutes it's only 2nd degree.
@7 On what grounds do you base your suspicion EH? I mean, other than monomaniacal hatred of the stranger.
Don't kill hookers, they're already dead on the inside.
NJ Matt @12-
The correct response to a comment from Ecce, issur, or that racist dude with the crazy spelling is deafening silence. Thank you for your cooperation.
well it is great how so many people can just dismiss these women as just "hookers" that advertised in the paper.
These women were from broken homes, victims of alcohol abuse, physical abuse and a drug problem which most of the time is not covered outside of Vancouver. I live 2 blocks from the "Downtown East Side" in Vancouver where these women disappeared, it is in the news every day it is a problem many 2010 Olympic supporters would like to have disappear. Just so pretense and illusion of a "World Class City" can continue. To dismiss these women as just hookers along with all the negative views that conveys is sad.
Picton was convicted on only six counts of second degree murder. That is only six of the 61 women that will never be accounted for from the Down Town East Side in Vancouver. Families of these mothers, daughters, sisters, will never never have closure. The dismissal of these women as not worthy of investigation in the late 1990's is one of the most appalling lack of concern for people on record. Federal conservative government has cut funding to help women on the down town east side while this case was happening which is appalling.
This city has given so much attention to redeveloping itself but not much attention and funding to actually help people that are desperate sick and living on the streets. If it had many of these women would still be alive and like some of the lucky women from these streets (survivors) possibly still be alive today.
READ:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/pickton/history.html
How can a serial killer be guilty WITHOUT premeditation? WTF?!
It is a relief to get a conviction, but there is certainly little closure from this. It addresses only 6/26 charges of murder, and the second degree verdict seems to point to an accomplice. I cannot believe he acted alone, given what went on at that farm.
And of course the central issue, which is the perpetual violence against vulnerable women and the complicity of the state in that cycle, is all but unaddressed. To top it all off, our RCMP have lost their fucking minds.
Re: Keshmeshi @10, "Feminists hate prostitution."
Yeah, prostitution is a tough one. The issue is exploitation, not just of women, but of girls, boys, and men. It's not just feminists who struggle with it.
But yes, I am a feminist, and I am not in favour of prostitution. I've seen its effects on people very close to me. The life of a streetwalker is not something anyone would wish on a loved one.
So it would be very meaningful for me if the sex trade were to undergo a major overhaul.
I would like to see prostitutes treated more like health-care providers. Why is massage okay, and a handjob taboo? Why is it acceptable to help people on and off the toilet, wash them, care for them and listen to them -- and yet unacceptable to serve their sexual needs? I'll tell you why -- because of sexual taboos. The sooner we get over these, the better.
Not everyone wants to make a living ministering to other people's physical needs. But some people are perfectly okay with it. Is it a surprise that the loved one I referred to, the one who became a prostitute, always dreamed of becoming a nurse? She is a very compassionate person, and cared about her clients. Prostitution was a way for her to take care of people, and it made her feel valued.
Unfortunately, the money she made went to her boyfriend/pimp, who treated her like garbage. She has permanent psychological scars from this period of her life, and she and her daughters still live in poverty.
I sometimes wonder what it would have been like for her if she'd had other options. What if, during this desperate time of her life, she could have found an agency that provided her with a safe environment, screened her clients, and paid her fairly? She wouldn't have had that incident with the guy with the knife, and she would have something financially to show for those years -- her own money, not cash she handed over to her "boyfriend."
The women who died at Pickton's hands were desperate. They deserve more options from a society that regularly turns a blind eye to sexual exploitation.
When I went to SFU, at one point I was invited to a party at his place.
Glad I never went, even though it was just nearby.
The sad thing is our local newspaper, The Peak, had more detailed coverage of this story than the Vancouver Sun or the Vancouver Province, at the time.
Glad it's over.
and shortly after that some feminists started firebombing porno video stores ... FYI .. in BC.
You had to be there. They also blew up transmission towers.
many feminists, especially the new breed of feminists, want to reform prostitution, not end it. there are some people well suited to it, as to porn. where have you been, ecce? you seem like such a trog, judging from most of your posts. and a hater. and so resilient against the distain you encounter here. you intrigue me, but not in a good way.
To all those who are wondering why it's only 2nd degree murder:
The judge fucked up when he was giving his instructions to the jury. Doesn't that just suck.
TV news, (I can't remember which one) says that on this conviction, he could be up for parole in 10 years.
Most people say that he will never get out of jail. 10 years is just a technical possibility- I don't think that has a chance of happening.
He might come up for parole but no one is going to give it to him. It was not a first degree conviction which is disappointing to many but he is in for life and has 21 other murder charges to answer for. All this will go on for years and the families and friends of the women killed will have to relive the story over and over.
It is sad that laws and reforms regarding the actions of the police departments only happen after people have been killed. Even the criminal profiler (Rossmo) on this case was dismissed by the police years ago because he said it was a single killer. The same criminal profiled that went on to help profile the identity of the Montgomery County, DC shooters.
So many people were not listened to very early in the Picton case.
Article about Rossmo and profiling:
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/cf57359b9fa84010vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html
For more insight into the women of the Downtown East Side of Vancouver this book by my friend Lincoln Clarks is great.
http://www.amazon.ca/Heroines-Social-Documentary-Clarkes-Lincoln/dp/customer-reviews/1895636450
Another book that by another friend "Stan Douglas" is
"Every Building on 100 West Hastings"
this book gives some insight into the history of the Down Town East Side in Vancouver.
http://www.arsenalpulp.com/bookinfo.php?index=169
@18,
I'm with you, and I should clarify that it's my impression that most feminists oppose prostitution. It's exploitive in the here and now and many feminists seem to believe that it's inherently exploitive. I mostly disagree. If we could break down those ridiculous taboos, then prostitutes could more effectively stand up for themselves and more easily get out of the life when it suits them.
The Vancouver sun is posting letters Pickton wrote. Content is about his mission to clean up the evil based upon the bible.
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=3b742afe-c303-4fb7-9042-e20479bb05cb&k=17315
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