Dan, usually I criticize you when it comes to your opinions on "teh bis", but you are mostly right on this one. but there is something to be said about the numbers thing. that really is a factor as is societal approval (IE when i introduce my cute new girlfriend to my coworkers they say she's cute and their happy for me, etc but when I introduce my boy toy they recoil in disgust [being a guy and all]).

As for your advice to the writer, its spot on. A Lot of people, gay, bi straight, LOOOOOOOVE trying to win over someone who is not available... I don't really understand it myself but i guess its a challenge or some bullshit like that.

Poor dude.

Bi guy = closet case. Bi gal = essentially straight.

How are Bi-gals essentially strait? I don't get that.

In the case of Poe, he is into tri-sexuals...you know, the kind that like to have sex with hermaphrodites.

Ha...the guy should be happy they're even having sex with them. My experience with bi men in Seattle is they talk a good game about being bi and wanting to have the sex...but when you call them on it and say, "Alright, put my money where your mouth is." [sic] they are suddenly only theoretically bi, in an asexual spot, or mysteriously have spawned a phantom girlfriend.

This is not the case in many place I've been...but in Seattle the bi boys are mostly talk or there is something fucked up about them.

** ...er, having sex with "him" rather...

What is the allure of being bi if you don't act on it?

Dan,
Thanks for elaborating on that bi topic. It hits home for me yet I haven't had the time to do the necessary reading to find out if it is just me ( which it sounds like its not) and why it is so( wish I could read it in a book!).
Unlike what Hooty declared...I really don't see myself as essentially straight ( sexually speaking anyway). I am married to a man, and though I haven't had many committed relationships with women I have had a few. The kicker for me is, I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place........I prefer women sexually, though as my patterns show I prefer men for relationships. Thankfully, I have a pretty GGG hubby....but I must say I do feel a bit like I am an imposter on both fronts.
What's the generally accepted reason for ladies like me Dan?

sexual preference seems to be more of a spectrum for women than for men, on average.

As I bi girl who's dated both sexes longtermy-wise I feel I should comment. I've fallen in love with people of both sexes but I find myself looking more towards opposite sex partners as I get older, mostly because society wise and life partner wise it's just easier to deal with. So even if you feel that personally things are 50-50 for you emotionally, all those external factors do tend to sway things towards more conventional relationships. So you end up more 70-30 on things after rationalizing it all.

@7: pegging.

As sexually fucked-up as people are in this country, there's only one thing I am absolutely 100% sure of: Dan will always have a job.

That advice didn't sound much like advice, it sounded like another excuse to rant on bisexuals, What's the matter, the fatosphere get quiet?

It is a shame that the bis can't live up to that high standard the gays set for seeking LTRs instead of casual hook-ups.

While I would agree that most bi-identified individuals end up in hetero relationships, I'm not sure I agree with the causality. I am a bi girl who is engaged to a fanastic lesbian. I'm finding more and more that its easier to identify as bi when your with a oposite sex partner than with same sex. Since I'm a girl in a relationship with a girl it is automatically assumed that I'm a lesbian. At first I tried to make it clear that I was bi, but as time has gone on I've realized that no matter where I go, as long as I'm with a girl, I'm gonna be labeled as a lesbian by all but my closest friends.

I suspect I'm not alone; I believe there are lots of bi folks out there letting you keep your assumptions that they're gay just for simplicity's sake. So don't give up WANTBI you've got a good sporting chance of finding that perfect bi guy who will want that LTR!

Hmm. Maybe thats because being bisexual is so heavily stigmatized in the gay community that those with long term same sex partners who might objectively be considered bisexual just identify as gay for reasons of convenience and community solidarity.

I'm glad you brought this up. I'm a straight guy with a lot of gay and bi friends of both genders, and I've noticed this trend. In fact, several of my bi friends have said to me at one time or another that they are mostly into the same sex for physical gratification and the opposite sex for emotional fulfillment . I've always been curious whether this was typical for bisexuals in general or just my friends. I'd be curious to know if there have been any studies into this.

it's funny in a terrible way when dan writes about bisexuals bc most of the time i think he's spouting biphobic generalizations as satire. guess i was wrong. what a jerk!

as a bi/queer identified woman, i can tell you that there are also plenty of lesbians who will *not* date bi women. it's not my fault they can't get over themselves.

14 & 15- totally agree.

My girlfriend (bi) and I (lesbian)have been together for 7 years. Most people assume that she's a lesbian, and sometimes don't even believe her when she tells them she's bi (yeah, sure you are, etc.).

Hey Me, didn't you ever see torch song trilogy?

It's likely you will be alone and miserable.

I think a lot of "bi-phobia" comes from anecdotal experience. Once your on the receiving end of "I don't plan on being with a man and I don't love you the way you do me" a few times, you begin to wonder if there is a pattern and might start to resent the idea of being able to "go straight" when the goings get too tough. I'm not saying its good, bad, or justified, im just saying thats where it's coming from.

basically bi people just get blamed for everything no matter what. if you end up with a hetero relationship, people will say you were always straight. if you end up with a homo relationship, people will say you were closeted.

personally, I don't identify as bi... due to the gender binary that it implies. I haven't really decided on which word is the least pretentious... omnisexual? pansexual? pomosexual?

basically, I just don't understand all the shit that people get for not identifying as gay or straight. some people don't identify as man or woman, does that bother you, Dan?

no matter what your personal feelings are, I feel like it's unnecessary to instill so much doubt about bi people as you seem to do.

@15

I get more shit about being bi from my gay friends ("oh, come on you are really just gay) than my straight friends (well at least the ones who aren't homophobic)....

to all gay guys out there...
(begin rant)
damn you gay guys are as bad as chicks sometimes with all this emotional BULLSHIT... I just want some fucking cock, ok?? jeeeez

(/rant)

@citrus

pan/onmi/pomosexuals unite!!!

@ 22:
"I just want some fucking cock, ok?? jeeeez"

well said, and seconded here.

@8 and others:

This article might shed some light:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/10/science/10desi.html?pagewanted=all

Women’s sexual fluidity extends beyond the strength of desire, he said, to encompass the objects of that desire. In his survey, heterosexual women who rated their sex drive as high turned out to have an increased attraction to women as well as to men.

“This is not to say that all women are bisexual,” Dr. Lippa said. “Most of the heterosexual women would still describe themselves as more attracted to men than to women.” Still, the mere presence of a hearty sexual appetite seemed to expand a heterosexual woman’s appreciation of her fellow women’s forms. By contrast, the men were more black-and-white in their predilections. If they were straight and had an especially high sex drive, that concupiscence applied only to women; if gay, to other men.

hahaha... i know you , mr. engle!

addendum to 24:
oh yeah and some hot coochie is rather nice as well.

I don't know what to identify as. I am attracted to women and men, which confused the hell out of me for a long time until I noticed a pattern. I was mostly attracted to women (same sex as me) most of the time, but at certain times of the month I'd start jonesing for dick. I think my attraction to men and women is based on my hormones. Especially now since my bio clock has started ticking. My attraction to men has increased in a sort of "must have DNA" way.

Just a theory, 'though.

@15

Q
to all gay guys out there...
(begin rant)
damn you gay guys are as bad as chicks sometimes with all this emotional BULLSHIT... I just want some fucking cock, ok?? jeeeez

(/rant)/Q

You just proved Dan's point. Bi guys think less of gay men with all our inconvenient 'feminine' emotional needs. (Stupid stuff like the need for some affection, compassion, acceptance, kindness, consideration, understanding... love, even.)

Jerks.

@22

Come out already.

Ray @ 29,

Stepping out on a limb here, as a bi guy, I don't think bis think less of gay men for their "feminine emotional needs." I do think bi guys get irritated with gays and het women constantly trying to force a definition that doesn't fit onto us.

I have several gay friends who have a pool running right now for when I "finally realize that I am just a flaming fag" despite the fact that I've dated women since meeting them, and have told them that I like both. Other gay friends pull out the tried and true phrase "bisexuality is just a stop on the train to homo-ville." I guess around here we should say it's a stop on the bus to homo-ville.

Anyhoo...

A lot of the time it feels like my bisexuality is seen as a threat to their homosexuality. I've had men tell me they resented the fact that I could just stop talking to men, find a woman, and settle down in the societally accepted manner. Why should they resent that? So what if I can marry a woman? What if I find out that I really don't want to marry a woman, but would rather marry a guy? I'm still denied that right, just like the gays.

@31: exactly.

when gays use the argument that it's possible for us to just "settle down" in a het relationship, they seem to think that we can just fall in love with whoever we want, whenever.

I don't believe that many bi/whatever sexuals could just fall in love with someone based on their hetero status. Just as I'm sure that gay men don't fall in love with other gay men just because they are gay.

also, even if a bisexual does end up in a het relationship, that DOES NOT mean that they are not bi anymore. love is love is love. please stop vilifying us.

"Most bisexuals—male or female—seem incapable of falling in love with same-sex partners."

Tila fucking Tequila.

I'm with 22 & 24.

Also, WTF does "But hoist, petard, etc" mean? Am I totally clueless?

@14 and 15 -- I'm a dyke engaged to a bi woman, and I agree with you both. When we first met, she told me she was bi, but lately more and more she refers to herself as a lesbian. I think it's just easier that way, and everyone assumes she is a lesbian anyway,since she has been with me for 3 years and her partner before me was also a woman.

So, what do you think - I'd especially like to hear from bi guys - this guy finds attractive about bi guys that's hard for him to find in gay guys? Dan suggests it's bi guys' unavailability for a romantic relationship.

Me again. So @1 is a bi guy who agrees with Dan that it's bi guys' unavailability for a romantic relationship that this gay guy finds attractive? Am I reading that right?

@35:

Ham.
There’s letters seal’d: and my two schoolfellows,–
Whom I will trust as I will adders fang’d,–
They bear the mandate; they must sweep my way
And marshal me to knavery. Let it work;
For ’tis the sport to have the enginer
Hoist with his own petard: and ’t shall go hard
But I will delve one yard below their mines
And blow them at the moon:

What a lot of people can't quite get -- and this includes Dan -- is that sexual orientation doesn't come in only three flavors. Ol' Senator Wide Stance is probably honest when he says he isn't gay even though he likes (apparently) to have sex with men. Much of what passses for 'gay life' in the US isn't appealing to many people and they don't want to identify with it. I'm invovled with a giy who is the opposite of what is discussed here: he is sexual with women but emotionally tied to men. This ain't so crazy. Go look in a sports bar and you'll see a bunch of guys hanging out together because they like the kind of maleness there....

Thanks Greg @ 39, but now I'm even more confused. WTF is all that olde english shit? Please translate!

It's a famous line from Hamlet, which is quite possibly the greatest play anywhere, ever. Call it shit again and I will cut you, motherfucker.

Basically: in Ye Olden Wartime, military engineers did a bunch of stuff including making fortifications, digging trenches and tunnels, creating siege engines, building weapons, and making bombs.

The petard (from Fr. meaning "farter") was a shaped bomb used for blowing out city gates. "Hoist with his own petard" means undone by his own devices, just like the engineer who accidentally blows himself up with a bomb he made.

@41. Google hoist on your own petard. It essentially means you get what you asked for.

@ everyone else:
I'm bi. I prefer emotional attachments to same-sex, and fun good times with the opposite. That makes me unusual, apparently, but that's not news to me.

The problem with bisexuality is it became fashionable recently for chicks to be 'bi'. Madonna kissing Britney? Why why? That's why I say I'm a lesbian to most people: it's easier, and puts me solidly in the community I feel closest to.

Bisexual men and women are very, very different, so it's difficult for me to even speculate on how this guy should handle his attraction for bisexual men. I think Dan gave him good advice.

I am a gay woman attracted to straight and bisexual women precisely because they are unavailable. My own internalized homophobia prevents me from being attracted to a woman who actually might want to have a LTR with me.

@44 So, Citizen Insane, as a gay woman whose supposed homophobia keeps you from being in an LTR, how do you only fall for bi women who are unavailable?

Thanks Greg & Tizzle (43). I love learning new stuff!

Now, can get some cock already?!?!

gay and bi are limited, in a sense. you could be attracted emotionally to men and/or women, want sex with men and/or women, and seek a long term partnership with men and/or women. it's all over the place, and difficult to describe beyond a vast generalization in one word. through into the mix people who have issues (wanting something they can't have even if they want it, or even if they don't want it), and it can get pretty muddled.

so it's easier to group by the most common types. straight. gay. bi.

Girls Who Are Boys
Who Like Boys To Be Girls
Who Do Boys Like They're Girls
Who Do Girls Like They're Boys
Always Should Be Someone You Really Love

The thing that I would add to Dan's answer is that the angry and defensive Bi's tend to be young and full of the all encompassing knowledge that comes when you are 13 and doesn't fade until you are 27 or so. As they age, they will find that the pattern you note of Bi's mainly settling down with opposite sex partners is true.

I am a little surprised how many posters have spoken up here who have broken that model. I am not surprised that they are all women.

For my own part, I am a straight man married to a bi woman. Her past includes one significant ltr with a woman, several three way entanglements and a passel of ltrs with plain old boring men.

@33 - Dani should have won. She should have beat up Bobby, he sucked.

33 and 50, I was pissed that Dani did not win. It was all very familiar to me because I had to fight and be very patient with my bi-sexual girlfriend. We are now in a committed relationship and have been together for 2 years but it was not easy. The pressure to conform to society norms made her hesitate even though I was the best thing that ever happened to her (and vis versa). I called her out on her fear and she came round. So, of course Tila would pick Bobby because it would be hard to make a tough decision like that on television. I have to say that she ended up with the right guy. He was not a stereotypical male (remember when he dressed in drag!). It still sucked for Dani but she represented!!

To begin to rebut Dan, #49 and everyone else who insists on hanging onto tired prejudices about bi men: I am a bi-identifying man who has been in a monogamous gay relationship for over 5 years. Prior to that I had various LTRs with both men and women. Much as I love my partner and his excellent cock, I really miss pussy. We have ongoing relationship issues surrounding his demand for monogamy, which of course has required me to give up women altogether (not to mention all other men). That said, the emotional bonds are there--just as they were with my girlfriend before him. People insist on thinking of me and referring to me as gay. Even my family refers to me as "gay".

Dan will blow me of as one of that "handful", an exception that proves the rule. He points to middle-aged bi men as the proof--look, they're all married and just play with men (often without their wives knowing). When it comes to elderly gay men who never came out of the closet because social norms during their young adulthood hadn't evolved to make that acceptable, Dan understands that changing social contexts shape peoples' sexual relationships. He likes to argue that middle-aged gay men had a choice to be out like him or live in the closet a la Sen. Craig. But the fact that gay relationships were available to those men doesn't mean they were without sacrifice; how many middle-aged gay men lost friends and family over their decision to come out? Is it so surprising that there are bi men of the same age who are equally attracted to men and women but who felt constrained by family, straight friends, and gay friends who refused to accept that there is such a thing as a bi man in a gay relationship? Is it so surprising that given the choice between two equally pleasing (though neither entirely fulfilling) sexual relationships, the majority of bi men went with the one that also was socially acceptable?

As straight people have started to accept queer people for what they are and be more comfortable having them in their families, we might expect to see more bi men and women come out of the closet. In fact, I think that women are already further down that road, at least in part because their male lovers don't find the prospect of multiple women in their beds to be discomforting, and maybe also because their women lovers don't think of them as incapable of love. But as for bi men, as long as their gay lovers think they are incapable of meaningful same-sex relationships, fewer are going to end up with LTRs with men. And as long as their straight lovers think that dick on the side makes them closet cases, they'll end up hiding their sexuality from their wives as well.

Dan, don't you think you could work to make the world more accepting of bisexual desire rather than sabotaging it and reinforcing nasty stereotypes?

Two things:
1) I also wanted Dani to win, but knew she wouldn't. Ultimately, I think she can do way better than Tila Tequila, and she's probably swimming in pussy right now, so it's for the best.
2) I don't consider myself bisexual, mostly because I can't see myself in a long-term relationship with another woman. I prefer the term "heteroflexible." I can be attracted to women, and sexual with women, but at the end of the day, nothing I can do with a woman is as sexually satisfying to me as a well-wielded penis.

I can't wait until i am as old as #49 and lose my youthful all encompassing knowledge and gain the wisdom of a 27 year old. See, i'm only 36 and anti-bi diatribes from Dan's bully pulpit still make me angry and defensive. The hypocrisy of stereotype-filled rants from Dan, who did not sit quietly while Garrison spewed stereotypes is infuriating. The "stereotypes exist for a reason" excuse? Bullshit. As #21 pointed out, no matter how a bi person lives, someone will point out how that typifies all bisexuals.

He's with a woman? See? I told you that's what they all do!

He's with a guy? See? All bis are closet cases... bi now-gay later!

He's with a woman and he has a boyfriend? See? They all just wants a little somethin' on the side!

Some people (and i'm talking about all orientations here) are looking for hook ups, some are looking for LTRs. People looking for hook-ups are easy to find, people looking for LTRs are harder to find. Trying not to be hoisted by your petard is good advice for any orientation looking for any orientation, preceding that advice with a two paragraph rant full of bullshit directed at one group doesn't help anybody.

"the overwhelming majority of bisexuals have opposite-sex partners because there are just so many more opposite-sex partners out there to be had from; gay people are a tiny percentage of the population, blah blah blah, and everywhere you go there are hordes of heteros, blah blah blah."

And why is that so unreasonable? Think about it -- 3% of the population is gay, which means that there about about 33 times as many potential opposite-sex partners as same-sex partners. Add that to the fact that some bisexuals might just find it easier to not be second-class citizens, and it makes perfect sense that most would end up in hetero relationships.

With regard to the guy in the letter, I get the sense that despite the assertion that he's "totally out," he's totally not that psyched about it: hence his attraction to those who are equally ambivalent about the whole same-sex thing (at least to the extent they haven't embraced it exclusively). I meet "totally out" gay guys all the time who struggle to find a relationship partner (but say they want one, which is different than guys who just want to be single) but who still seem uncomfortable with being gay (which no surprise can be a turnoff when it comes to a long-term gay relationship). My sense is that this guy needs to cross the "coming-out" line and into the realm of "thank fucking god I'm gay" (as opposed to the horrendous alternatives, whatever you want to call them), and if/when that happens, he'll find a whole new world open up to him.

i agree with the bi thing. not so much because im that way but the chick i date are... see i have problems having an emotional meaningful relationship with guys. but girls. i can love intensely.. but hey thats me

After I read Dan's post, I went home totally depressed. It really hit a nerve about something I am afraid of. Been out as bi since i was 12 (I am now 23), but got out of a 4 year LTR with a guy 1.5 yrs ago... started dating a woman a year after (for 6 months now).
I have been in love with 2 guys. I have not felt that kind of love for my current girlfriend. But the thing is that I only dated 3 guys ever, fell in love with 2 of them. Dated only 1 woman, not feeling the same kind of "in love" feelings. (I am a serial monogamist, if you can't tell, and I do love her, I just feel like we don't have a lot in common) Does that mean I emotionally prefer men? Or have I not met the right woman? Im much more attracted to women than to men. I am so scared that I will be stuck wanting to be with a woman who I actually desire more, but unable to connect. Dan, you suck for making me feel sad and scared and uncertain. I really thought this post was in jest,
how can you be so open-minded and aware or shades of gray about everything except sexuality?

I don't know much about relationships with bi's since I'm straight, and the only bisexual I've ever known was a chick. At lunchtime, she'd flirt with me and my friends, but she also had a boyfriend. She used to have a girlfriend, but they'd apparently broken up, so I don't know what their relationship was like.
All I can say is that you should try dating more women before you decide that you can't love women the way you love men. You should also try to remember that people fall in love with different people at different rates. You might fall in love with one person as soon as you meet them. Other times, it could take weeks, months, or years. It's impossible to put a deadline on love.
As for your current girlfriend? If you guys don't have much in common, why are you still together? Relationships like that don't work. Maybe you had more in common with those 2 guys you DID fall in love with. Maybe you just need to find a girl that you have stuff in common with. The bottom line is this: try dating more women before you decide that you can't love women the way you love men. Saying you can't be "in love" with women just because of this one woman is like a straight or gay person saying, "Well, this relationship didn't work out, so maybe I'm just incapable of falling in love!"

@59
Anna, of course you are right. I know that. How can I base my decision on one experience? But it is just that Dan touched on this exact point. I am with her still, even with little in common, because of the physical connection (and he says bi people have no problem with that, right? it is the emotional that is the stumbling block).

It's not just the incredibly pleasurable, 6 hour marathon, 13 orgasms later, every bedroom surface dripping wet, sex. The connection is just really intense. Smelling her, feeling her. Its amazing. Lots of people would say that IS love, and maybe it is, but how can it be if talking to her I am bored out of my mind half the time?
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my previous rambling... only for me to post more.

so... Dan Savage, are you ever going to respond? whether it's in self defense (probably) or a sincere apology, I for one would appreciate some kind of reply to all of us who have disagreed with your post. thanks.

devochka, that's not love. That's lust. Lust is fine and fun and all, but first of all it won't last forever, and second of all you need an emotional and intellectual connection to someone you actually end up with.

Now, at 23 I think it is fine to be in a lust fueled relationship. I wouldn't worry too darn much about how long it is going to last, because if that is all you have, it will end sooner or later anyway. If the sex is that good I would consider enjoying it for a while rather than obsessing. You will get tired of her eventually or vice-versa. Some fight will erupt that won't be worth getting over considering the lack of emotional and intellectual connection.

Right now though, there is no reason not to just enjoy the sex. Seriously, you won't be with this woman a year from now. You will still be young when you break up. There will be plenty of time for emotionally rewarding relationships.

If this thing goes on another three years, and you still only have sex in common, that is when I would start to seriously consider that you are wasting your time.