Comments on Offered w/Out Comment and 1 Bold
the coming Year of the Rat will be a time of hard work and constant activity
Things are going great for the Freedom Socialist Party, they're resorting to astrology.
"offered without comment" should be switched to "eli sanders style of never writing anything ever"
The kind of world we need is ours to create. That kind of world is socialist. It’s feminist. It’s egalitarian and fully realizable.
It IS egalitarian - it has absolutely no wealth whatsoever. Everyone has an equal hunk of nothing.
Now if they could only find someone without four prior felony convictions to run for office....
"Offered without comment" is starting to rival "inconceivable!" as that thing you keep saying but I don't think it means what you think it means.
Seems like the socialists have tons of time to write boring crap - must be not having a job.
We can build on our victories in 2007 some of them tangible, some of them gains in consciousness. Facing attack by the profit-chasing system, U.S. immigrants, autoworkers, nurses, janitors, teachers, and writers all shoved back.
They forgot to mention the greatest worker uprising of the year - the United Auto Workers unionizing casino dealers in Atlantic City.
Fucking whack jobs...
Wow, that's just pathetic. I knew Josh was retarded from reading some of his articles, but...sheesh.
Name one sucessful socialist state -- ever. Go ahead. No, Venezuela doesn't count. China? The USSR? For some reason they keep getting stuck at the "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" part. Darn.
But yeah, that's what we really need here in America.
Actually, what we really need is for these lamo "Socialists" to put more propaganda posters up at Seattle Central Community College, cuz that's really helping "the cause" a lot!
I don't want anyone to tell me I can't work my ASS off and make money because of it. I don't want anyone to tell me I can't develope a better product and sell it for a higher price than a piece of crap product (and get rich because someone FREELY buys my product). The Socialist ideal has us all dumbed down and poor. No thank you.
Socialists...BAAAAHAHAHAHAHAH!!111
Looks like this blog is the only thing that's been appropriated in the class struggle against imperial capitalist jackals.
Religious fundamentalists vent their wrath against reproductive freedom for women and social equality for lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transgender people.
It's so adorable that they think socialism can solve those problems. It can only if the socialist state outlaws religion and only if the socialist state is not run by a bunch of homophobes.
The sun on the meadow is summery warm.
The stag in the forest runs free.
But gather together to greet the storm.
Tomorrow belongs to me.
The branch of the linden is leafy and green,
The Rhine gives its gold to the sea.
But somewhere a glory awaits unseen.
Tomorrow belongs to me.
The babe in his cradle is closing his eyes
The blossom embraces the bee.
But soon, says a whisper;
"Arise, arise,
Tomorrow belongs to me..."
Communism, really? In the year 2008? Keep keeping the Utopian dream alive you glorious pinko bastards.
Nebula38 says "Name one sucessful socialist state".
The United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Italy, and Japan, for starters.
Name one successful NON-socialist state. I dare you.
Not that that has anything to do with these Freedom Socialist inconsequentialities.
Apparently today as the day all the blotto frat boys post on the Slog to do their version of not-funny-South-Park, but the Socialists are right.
Their assessment of the US role in world politics and the reasons people across the US are suffering are dead on right. People like Edwards and Obama sometimes give vague, half-right explanations for why things are so fucked up, but the Socialists hit the nail on the head. Sometimes their plan for what to do about it is a bit off, but then, your plan, dear reader, sucks balls, so shut up.
Now you Freepers, go back to Free Republic where you came from and, you know, work hard and be a genius and all that crap that is supposed to make you rich. No doubt I'll see your sorry ass in line for the dole when the wheel of fortune doesn't spin your way.
You know, I remember your same fucking snotty attitude when I was going around saying your fucked up war in Iraq was going to be a disaster, you little fucks. Riddle me this: after all the hell that broke loose when your splendid little war didn't work out, how come you still think your opinion is worth didly squat? I was right. The Socialists were right. You and Hilary Clinton and Joe Lieberman were wrong. Learn something from that.
Fnarf, of course, beat me to it, as usual, but it always takes me long while to spell check.
Come on guys. Lets do it!
Sloggers are so conservative. No need to be hatin on the Socialists. They are good folks.
@16 -- These guys are clearly Communists, not socialists.
@17 -- No one's arguing that they don't have a point about a lot of issues (Though, Mumia Abu-Jamal? Still? Isn't he dead yet?), but Communism is not the answer. This story is laughable, because a bunch of wannabe "revolutionaries" think that communism is still a viable answer, or still relevant for that matter. Any left-wing douchebag can sit around sipping a latte with his dog-eared copy of Mao and point out the problems of the country. But it's precisely the solutions that are important, and as you admit, they ain't there. Unless you put some pragmatic, practical, realistic solutions on the table-- and I'll clue you in, worldwide socialist revolution isn't realistic-- you're just spouting bullshit everybody already knows. It's laughable these guys can even take them selves seriously. Che's dead, Woodstock's over, the Berlin Wall came down 20 years ago. Get with the times, man!
Getting blotto in the very non-socialist U.S. is our right, and us privileged elite didn't get born into wealth out of nothing. Our grandads had the good sense to bribe the right congressmen, spent a couple of long hours writing tax-loopholes, then sealed those sacred deals in the country club lounge or on the links, thank you very much.
italy, germany and japan would all be speaking german if it wasn't for us and our corporate supremecy...
france, canada and britian are all pinko sympathyser who would rather have sex than make money....those lefty fools.
elenchos, please tell me someone appropriated your nom de guerre. Or you were posting while methed out. Or something.
I agree that capitalism needs a little bit of socialism to create equality of opportunity. But true communism has a track record of 100 years of abject faulure. Saying that capitalism "sucks balls" isn't really an effective retort.
Plus, the idea that socialism:capitalism::pacifism:warmongering totally ignores all the wars of conquest and subjugation waged by the USSR and China (and others during the twentieth century.) Ask the Tibetans, Mongolians, and Bosnians how they feel about socialist benevolence.
Capitalism isn't perfect, but Trotskyism is a failed experiment. Saying so doesn't make one a "frat boy."
Respectfully, -Sven
How ridicules in America today, for a group of men and women to ban together and actually try to make this world better for the working class or Palestinians. What a fucking joke. It is better for the progressives in this country to just fit their heads up their ass and vote for Obama or Clinton, even if voting for a democrat has as much of a chance of changing America for the better as praying to Jesus. As much as I hate republicans, at least they have the basic humanity to at least believe in something and work to achieve it. American progressives on the other hand slit their own throats election after election, as the world literally dies around them. The Freedom Socialists are sincere, and actually try, where as Democrats have given up long ago, and are living in a fantasy. Fuck you, and Clinton and fake ass Obama.
@23-- Right, just like how it didn't matter that Nader cost Gore the election in 2000. Since both parties are the same, right? The democrats aren't perfect, but they're a lot more progressive that some people make them out to be. Problem is, unlike the Freedom Socialists or whoever, they have to worry about actually getting elected and the actual consequences and costs of policies (since, you know, they might actually be able to do something). If you don't like the democrats and the system so much, maybe you'd care to move to a "Freedom Socialist" country like North Korea where you won't have to worry about voting at all. Revolutionary Communism is just so... quaint. Viva pragmatism!
Also, how odious is it that the Freedom Socialist Party is championing people like Lynne Stewart, who aided the communications of convicted terrorist Sheik Abdul Rahman with his terrorist allies. Just because you don't agree with US policy you're going to throw your lot in with Islamic terrorists (while strangely ignoring the far more important torture issue)? What a joke.
Is this Dallas, small town Tennessee or Seattle?
What a wake up call - the posters here with only several exceptions have NO political theory in their lives whatsoever.
Of course, America does not need single payer health insurance, that old commie pinko plot to destroy profits?
Surely not. Just let the weak and un insured and children suffer, hum, hum.
Some how posters have glossed over the socialist history of western Europe, much still in place, and still innovating. France, Italy, Belgium, Sweden, Holland, Finland, on and on .....
20 countries united, no boarders, how very silly, they are living in the past with all that socialist crap about peace and prosperity. Strong Euro, paid vacations, worker scale wages which make American workers look very underpaid.
Oh, well, we have the get rich quick dream to retire on ... and corporate propaganda about how well off we all are.
Most of these posts are pathetic. Now I know how George Bush was elected the second time.
Feminism and equal rights, an active fight against racism, and many other modern movements are all driven by a socialist catalyst. By the way. As in compared to the mainstream. Stumbling Democrats and fascist Republicans.
Mice Unite!!!
@24 Please, Bush stole that election, and the one after that. In the last election, it was the Greens that challenged the election results, and not Kerry. You can not even acknowledge basic reality because you live in the fantasy that the dems have your interests at heart as they allow the Republicans to fix elections, as they refuse to even try to impeach Bush, as they are given a mandate to end the war in the last election, and the troop level rises in Iraq. As for socialism being a dead end, please realize that FDR has socialist policies, and this country did well with them. But also realize that today’s Dems are not our grandparents party.
I'd love to read all this, but it's late and I need a drink.
Oh Fnarf, If I was a woman, and there wasn't a Mrs. Fnarf, I'd be all ga-ga over you. Thank you for bringing some intelligence to this thread.
Interestingly enough, almost all of the members of the Freedom Socialist Party that I've known have been successful professional types. I think their particular brand of Socialism is fairly silly and pedantic, but you can't accuse these folks of being lazy or stupid.
A number of commenters seem to be confusing socialism with social democracy. It can be a murky distinction, especially since European social democrats keep insisting on being called "socialists."
Trust me, this Freedom Socialist Party bears no similarity to social democrats of any part of the world. Their socialism is the socialism of Karl Marx. If anything, these guys despise social democracies -- the more the people are placated with bread and circuses, the longer it will take for the true revolution to happen.
I fell in with a similar group in college. They don't want solutions, they never want solutions. They want to sit around in cafes talking about how terrible the world is now and how great everything will be once the Revolution happens. If they actually go to a protest, it's only to hand out pamphlets.
Up, you peoples of this earth. Unite so that the earth now becomes yours, and the great nursing mother.
[refrain] Forward, and don't forget wherein our strength lies! When hungering and when eating, forward and never forget: solidarity!
Black, white, brown, yellow! End your slaughter! Only once the peoples speak themselves will they quickly unite.
[refrain]
If we want to achieve it quickly, we still need you and you. Anyone who lets down his equals actually is only letting him- or herself down.
[refrain]
Our lords, whoever they may be, like to see our discord, because as long as they separate us, they will remain our lords.
[refrain]
Proletarians of all countries, unite and you will be free. Your great regiments will break any tyranny! Forward and don't forget, and the question phrased correctly when hungering and when eating: Whose tomorrow is tomorrow? Whose world is the world?
Other socialist states (quite successful ones):
Norway
Sweden
Finland
Denmark
Iceland
the Netherlands
Belgium
Luxembourg
If look at GDP and standard of living, soon joining these countries will be: Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.
"Workers of the world..."
You lost me right there. I worked hard for 15 years, and I am "taking a break" (i.e., retired) for the next 20 years. Oh, yeah, I'm as evil as fuck. And I vote liek fuck, too...
To this day, I work. I don't work for a company or corporation, but I work every single day and in ways that you can't reach with your media. You Socialists disturb and disgust me with all of your attempted proselytizing; the more you yell, the more ill I feel. Adapt more than adopt, consider more than co-opt, and try listening instead of yelling your your self-doomed mission from the rooftops. For once.
like @32 says: what's wrong with a little Socialist action??? You Sloggers need to give up your hidden right-wing agenda......
I am constantly amazed at the endless need for one group of people to insist that the other group think and act as they do. I don't believe that this badgering, be it religious, political or economic stems from a good place in the heart but rather from the deepest pit of insecurity. This is why wars are fought and societies destroyed.
Will humanity destroy itself over petty differences? Which religion is the one "true" belief? And, damn, I should have bought iPod stock when it was only $15/share!
france, canada and britian are all pinko sympathyser who would rather have sex than make money
Uh, I don't know about the rest of you, but I totally would rather have sex than make money.
That the US has done bad things should not logically lead one to support socialism. Keshmeshi @30 seems to have said everything else worth saying, but I'll elaborate.
France, Norway, etc... are not socialist countries in the way that the Freedom Socialist Parties are socialist. They all have a vibrant free market economies chock full of "evil" "multinational" "corporations."
I think the biggest problem with this letter is not the underlying desire for change it tries to express, but the truly stultifying jargon with which it attempts to make the case. This is why the best "communist" writer is Walter Benjamin (also from the 1930s), who so brilliantly expressed his dissatisfaction with the capitalistic "system," while at the same time acknowledging his ambiguity for the alternatives, given his understanding (by way of his love of Proust) that on some level, things will never change.
1. Freedom Socialist Party is a bunch of commies -- and they are not ultimately for elections.
3. Current day "capitalism" in the USA has lots of socialism: sewers, schools, prisons, armies, Medicare, roads, mass transit (oops, not in Seattle. WE're too anti govt./pro fake free market in roads, for that).
Also highly regulated sectors like RR monopolies, licenses, insurance, etc.
Also really every "free" markets" is in fact highly regulated via courts, law, contracts, standard product size and what is a legal product in the first place.
4. Over in Europe/Japan, Aussies etc. they also have mixed systems but more tilted to collectivism (national health care, free college, better retirement, mandatory 6 weeks vacation, etc. Sigh!) (Not tomention if you are a Dane and don't like the 65% marginal tax rate you can now go work in about 22 other countries. Cool! Why are we so uptight about borders??).
5. The right wing confuses things by calling anything socialism even a USA moderate Democrat. The left wing commies confuse things, too, by calling themselves socialists. So "socialism" stretches from election hating commies to mild Democrats and has lost meaning.
6. The social democracy states got it right and have the best outcomes if your beliefs are tied to things like facts, history, and reality.
Right wingers and left wingers who do not see this are usu. blind ideologues.
They say the Democrats are commies, or they say the Democrats are no different than the Republicans. They say all war is wrong, or that we should go to war all the time -- even if attacking a nation that didn't attack us.
They say all markets are bad, or all regulation/colelctivism is good.
Most people in the Democratic party are we don't say so, because that word is culturally verboten in USA politics. But, this kind of mixed-system socialism a la social democracies is a good thing. Proven in practice.
DSOC anyone??
Ah, the '30s. When communism still seemed like a good idea.
I hate red lights. Fucking communist red lights.
"We can expect little in the U.S. from the two national labor federations as long as their leaderships remain in cahoots with the Democratic Party the second party of Big Business..."
Hey, leave Jared and Coady out of this.
don't worry, rugged self-made capitalists, if any "socialist" ever got a scrap of power in the US of goddamn A, there'd be one of your team there to put a bullet in their head.
nothing essential changes
I am amazed at how you all manage to be infallible and undeniably correct while simultaneously refuting each other.
Thanks for posting the Freedom Socialist Party's greetings for the New Year. It's refreshing to find something positive and forward-looking in the SLOG, especially the commentary on how people around the world are fighting back against the degrading effects of globalization.
I heard about the efforts of the Freedom Socialist Party to bring the Left together to put forward candidates in elections at every level, and I hope that soon we'll have people to vote for who aren't the same old reps for the current blood-sucking system.
There's more to do with our short lives than shop and then, literally, drop.
Response from Chris of the Freedom Socialist Party—
Glad to see so many read FSP’s new year’s greetings. And glad some of you see capitalism as the problem. To others who trash the FSP or who are just plain unclear about socialism, I offer excerpts from an article by one of our founders, Clara Fraser.
From Socialism for Skeptics
We’re taught at such an early age to be against the communists, yet most of us don’t have the faintest idea what communism is. Only a fool lets somebody else tell him who his enemy is.
--Assata Shakur (1987)
Our major talking heads stigmatize communism as an untried pipe dream, a brutal dictatorship, a failed experiment. Like Hamlet, they would “rather bear those ills we have, than fly to others that we know not of.” Stuff and nonsense. The Wright Brothers’ first planes didn’t fly. Spacecraft still blow up. All beginnings are rocky.
So let’s shut down the fixed idea that rightward change is inevitable, but leftward change unthinkable. Social revolutionaries are the authentic entrepreneurs.
Socialism (and its final stage of communism) is a wonderful goal, a promise of a lifestyle irresistible in its harmony, workability, naturalness, passion and compassion. And some great minds have provided us with a wealth of down-to-earth definitions.
“Communism, far from being an intolerable bureaucratic tyranny and individual regimentation, will be the means of greater individual liberty and shared abundance.” Words from If American Should Go Communist by Leon Trotsky, co-leader and standard-bearer of the Russian Revolution.
“Anything that has any kind of value is made, mined, grown, produced, and processed by working people. So why shouldn’t working people collectively own that wealth?” Former Black Panther and escaped political prisoner Assata Shakur penned these lines in Assata.
“We visualize a social order based on the common ownership of the means of production, the elimination of private profit in the means of production, the abolition of the wage system, the abolition of the division of society into classes.” Lifelong U.S. Marxist James P. Cannon furnished this capsule during his sedition trial, as recorded in Socialism on Trial.
“From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.” So asserted Karl Marx in Critque of the Gotha Programme.
The present economic arrangement is insatiable in its avarice, unrelenting in its viciousness, rife with contradictions, and veering crazily out of control. The rule of the almighty dollar or yen or mark must and will be overthrown and supplanted by the rule of reason and justice.
Mr Me,
So Nader cost Gore the election in 2000? That's odd, I thought the Supreme court put Bush in office despite Gore winning the popular vote.
As for those peace lovin dems, they got us into most of the wars fought by the US, and continue to fund the war in Iraq even with a majority in congress.
Also Lynne Stewart is facing jail time for upholding her client's right to communicate outside of his prison cell. That right is something we may all need as the police state ramps up. Instead of making Stewart out to be a sinister enabler of terrorism, you might look into the facts of the case and basic civil liberties involved.
As for the misconception that we socialists don't know how to party, check us out:
Monday, December 31, 2007, 8:30pm
New Years Eve Celebration for Civil Libertarians: Defy the Police State in 2008!
Close out the old year and kickoff the new with friends who, like you, want a better world. Festivities include a Seditiously Delicious Italian Feast, a riotous reality show by the Pepper Spray Players, liberating libations and dancing.
Door donation $5; dinner donation $17. Sliding scale and work exchanges available for students and low-income people. The party will take place at New Freeway Hall, 5018 Rainier Ave. S., Seattle, on the #7 bus line at the Hudson St. stop. Parking is available on the street or at the inexpensive lot on S. Ferdinand St. one block east of Rainier Ave. S.
For information, rides, or childcare call in advance 206-722-6057 or 206-722-2453 or email RWseattle@mindspring.com. Wheelchair accessible.
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