Slog - Comments on Heavily Fictionalized True Stories http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories I'm kind of hard on The Great Debaters in this week's film section, and when I read A. O. Scott Stephen Holden's mostly positive review in the New York Times, I felt bad. (For a second.) I wanted to like the movie, for many of the same reasons Holden lists. It makes it seem cool not only to be smart, but to be intellectual. It defends its protagonist not from accusations of being a Communist, but from the assumption that holding communist ideals--especially in the thick of the thirties--is even remotely scary. It asserts that some kids are gifted, and... Copyright 2008 Thu, 27 Dec 2007 14:50:05 -0800 Fri, 28 Dec 2007 13:56:52 -0800 http://www.movabletype.org/?v=3.34 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Comment by Cato the Younger Younger You want to really believe in your position? Read up on everything you can on the opposing view.

Hell, in college I debated that the American colonies were WRONG in breaking away from England. And I won the debate.

]]> Cato the Younger Younger http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c883698 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c883698 Film Thu, 27 Dec 2007 14:53:50 -0800 Comment by Mr. Poe Sounds boring as hell.

]]> Mr. Poe http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c883702 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c883702 Film Thu, 27 Dec 2007 14:59:36 -0800 Comment by elenchos Interesting. I've never argued with anyone who wasn't completely wrong, while my side was entirely right. It kind of sounds fun, I guess. Maybe I'll try it some time.

]]> elenchos http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c883706 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c883706 Film Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:01:24 -0800 Comment by lostboy This reminds of me countless movies whose depiction of a great poker player is invariably a man with either the intrinsic luck or the apparent unspoken psychic ability to draw an inside ace-high royal flush at need.

Is it that writers and directors are convinced audiences can't appreciate the very craft being showcased, or do they themselves not get it?

]]> lostboy http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c883721 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c883721 Film Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:19:03 -0800 Comment by Mr. Poe Lostboy, look at all of the movies that make the most money.

People love dumbed-down predictable shit. Everybody in Hollywood knows it, which is why the continue to make it.

]]> Mr. Poe http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c883728 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c883728 Film Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:26:17 -0800 Comment by Greg It sounds like The Great Debaters portrays college debates about as accurately as Indiana Jones portrays archaeology.

]]> Greg http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c883759 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c883759 Film Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:40:31 -0800 Comment by jz sharon jones makes a cameo, right?

]]> jz http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c883760 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c883760 Film Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:40:33 -0800 Comment by lostboy Yeah, I misstated my idea a bit.  Granted, you'll never get a mainstream audience to groove on the less-than-intuitive aspects of any craft.  Why, though, do writers and directors feel they have to misrepresent things (great poker by clairvoyance, great debate by cheap emotional ploys) to make them palatably simple?

None of that is as stupid as the scene from Armageddon where they spun the space station to create "gravity" parallel to the axis of rotation.  In writing, it sounds more abstract than it is.  On screen, it was the most memorably intelligence insulting thing I've seen in a modern film.

]]> lostboy http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c883765 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c883765 Film Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:47:09 -0800 Comment by Mr. Poe Word.

]]> Mr. Poe http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c883885 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c883885 Film Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:43:41 -0800 Comment by keshmeshi @6,

But at least Indiana Jones is fun. A movie about debate that doesn't have any real debating: boring and lame.

]]> keshmeshi http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c883913 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c883913 Film Thu, 27 Dec 2007 18:25:02 -0800 Comment by Kristi in Kitsap In 9th grade Honors English we studied debate for a quarter. I was on a two-woman team that argued against repealing apartheid in South Africa, and we won. :) I was the kid who had a Ban Apartheid sticker on her binder, so I obviously didn't believe a word I was saying. I think we deserved to win though, we were better prepared and had good quotes and stats that our opponents weren't prepared to handle.

]]> Kristi in Kitsap http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c883959 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c883959 Film Thu, 27 Dec 2007 21:27:39 -0800 Comment by Cale the great debaters?

what was wrong with the working title: the master debaters?

]]> Cale http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c883962 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c883962 Film Thu, 27 Dec 2007 21:33:41 -0800 Comment by Jim Anyone who has debated can tell you what an awful business it is. It is so beyond artificial. When I debated in the 80's it was essentially required that no matter what side you were arguing, the position of the other side would result in NUCLEAR WAR!!!!!!!!

Sorry about the caps, but that is fair to the spirit of the times.

I mean, water projects would end in nuclear war, but on the other side, so would not building the water project.

It was bunk beyond belief. Also there was the fact that it was a numbers game. You weren't actually trying to convince anyone, you gave your arguments, and if the other side did not refute all of them, you win. Such nonsense.

They introduced Lincoln Douglass debates right as I was getting out of debate. That was sort of too bad because I think L/D has a shot at not being ridiculous.

]]> Jim http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c884006 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c884006 Film Fri, 28 Dec 2007 00:54:28 -0800 Comment by jeremy I hate Denzel Washington. Wasn't it his abuse that caused Halle Berry to lose her ear-sight. Wait. That's not the right word. Hearing, maybe?
Anyway, he's the one who totally oopsed her upside the head and made her lose her hearing.

]]> jeremy http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c884026 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c884026 Film Fri, 28 Dec 2007 06:44:16 -0800 Comment by Kathy Fennessy That New York Times review was actually written by Stephen Holden (he who normally has no truck with animated features). As for The Great Debaters, I agree that it would've been just as inspirational without the falsifications. Alas, Washington has been down this road before, since Norman Jewison's The Hurricane took similar hits (though I felt Jewison's use of "artistic license" was far less egregious). Of course, acclaimed art house films, like The Diving Bell and the Butterfly, can play fast and loose with the facts, too...

]]> Kathy Fennessy http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c884284 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c884284 Film Fri, 28 Dec 2007 12:22:13 -0800 Comment by annie @15: Look at you, actually reading the links! Sorry about that.

]]> annie http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c884415 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/heavily_fictionalized_true_stories#c884415 Film Fri, 28 Dec 2007 13:56:52 -0800