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RSS icon Comments on Donny? Marie? Boycott Them Bitches!

1

FUCK YOU, ZZ TOP!!!

Posted by heywhatsit | December 20, 2007 2:09 PM
2

All mormons should be harvested for organs. People need those, and if they don't, we can throw them through windows.

Posted by Mr. Poe | December 20, 2007 2:14 PM
3

While I agree with the vast majority of your post, I do take offense with one statement: not all of us capitalists are douche bags. In fact, I would say anyone who doesn't believe capitalism is the only known viable economic system is a douche bag. Unless, of course, you can show evidence to the contrary (and not on a micro scale, please).

Posted by LT L | December 20, 2007 2:14 PM
4

Charlton Heston is listed twice, did he get cloned on that ape planet where he railed against nukes, and then shift to wanting them in his cold dead bony fingers?

Posted by vooodooo84 | December 20, 2007 2:15 PM
5

For the record, the Mormon church officially abandoned its stance on blacks in 1978, coincidentally at the same time the University of Wyoming (fellow member of the original Western Athletic Conference) threatened to boycott any games with BYU (where the girls are girls and the boys are, too.) As for Dummy and Marie, they haven't got a clue. Never had and never will. BTW, did you know Marie's first hubby was reputedly gay?

I personally am looking forward to my time relegated to Outer Darkness. Should be a hell of party.

Posted by QuimbyMcF | December 20, 2007 2:16 PM
6

wow. that's a fairly depressing list.

Posted by *gong* | December 20, 2007 2:32 PM
7

@2: The Defenestration of Salt Lake! That has a ring to it, for sure.

Posted by I kid, of course | December 20, 2007 2:35 PM
8

Please, please, please dish more about Marie's reputedly gay ex-husband. Did he play with all those dolls when no one was watching?

Posted by Bonita Applebaum | December 20, 2007 2:36 PM
9

That is perhaps the most bigoted, hate filled post I've ever read on the Slog.

Of course Mormonism is preposterous. But no more so than Judaism (no evidence whatsoever of the Hebrews wandering the desert for 40 years), Christianity (virgin mother--WTF?), Islam (where to even begin) or any other of the world's religions, from Buddhism to Baha'i.

Still, referring to any follower of the LDS church to a "...curious beast..." is despicable and places you on the same level as any other hate monger.

Look in the mirror Adrian. Do you see a swastika in your reflection???

Posted by David In Wedgwood | December 20, 2007 2:39 PM
10

Well Adrian? Do you? DO YOU???

Posted by nazis love mormons | December 20, 2007 2:47 PM
11

Waaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh!!!

WAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!


WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!

Posted by Mr. Poe | December 20, 2007 2:47 PM
12

The new, "I have black friends" is, apparently, "My dad marched with Martin Luther King Jr." Which, in the end, is officially "a metaphor."

Posted by Joshua | December 20, 2007 2:48 PM
13

WAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAH!

Posted by Mr. Poe | December 20, 2007 2:48 PM
14

Gosh, Adrian, if you really feel that way about gays and Republicans (and their supporters), why don't you go ask Dan why he continues to fellate that self-hating fag Andrew Sullivan?

Posted by Tlazolteotl | December 20, 2007 2:50 PM
15

Buffy is a republican?

Glad to see there were no hip hoppers on that list.


Posted by SeMe | December 20, 2007 2:52 PM
16

Adrian,

As usual, you are 100% correct about every single thingy! Whatta bunch of goddamn douchebags (Microsoft Word just politely informed me that “douche bags” is two actually words, nice).

Now that god awful list(!):


Nancy Cartwright (voice of Bart Simpson!!)


Anderson Cooper (makes sense for closet cases)


Sarah Michelle Gellar & Freddie Prinz Jr. (Buffy?? Noooooooooo!!! I refuse to believe this. It may be a case of confusing an actress with her character, but I can’t believe she would do something so flat out E-V-I-L.)


Dixie Carter (uh huh: Drunk, crazy, alchoholic vote)


Heather Locklear (Amanda Woodward? Well, not really surprising at all.)

The others are mostly C and D-listers that we already know about, and of course these right wing cranks don’t cite any sources so there’s not really a way to investigate.

One request: This should have been posted before lunch. Gluuurrfff!

Posted by Original Andrew | December 20, 2007 2:58 PM
17

I refuse to believe that several of the people on that list are bonafide rethuglicans- Johnny Ramone? no f-ing way!

Posted by NELBOT | December 20, 2007 3:00 PM
18

"See Mormons, bless their stupid little hearts, officially believe that back people are black as a divine punishment for “turning away” from (the American) Jesus and are, by extension, really quite automatically damned."

"back" people?

Posted by andy niable | December 20, 2007 3:02 PM
19

It gets worse man. The chick that plays a vengence demon on Buffy is a republican also. She was republican babe of the week (WTF?)

http://www.jerseygop.com/RepublicanBabes23.html

it sucks seeing a-rod on that list, but no surprise he is also a big old slum lord. ditka is on there too.

Posted by SeMe | December 20, 2007 3:03 PM
20

Wow, only 9 posts to hit "Godwin's Limit", way to go DiW!

Yep, anyone who hates the people who hate them is a bigot - gotta love that twisted logic! "How DARE you refuse to tolerate other people's intolerance towards you!"

Posted by COMTE | December 20, 2007 3:06 PM
21

The list of celebrity scientologists is even more disheartening, though of course not as immediately sinister.

Posted by laterite | December 20, 2007 3:09 PM
22

I bet they hate fat people, too.

Posted by Durrr | December 20, 2007 3:11 PM
23

SeMe @ 19,

Well then I don't feel badly at all for how things turned out for Anya in Season 7.

Most sports types are Republicans: They're nouveau riche and dumb as rocks.

Posted by Original Andrew | December 20, 2007 3:11 PM
24

Johnny Ramone was a serious uber-Republican,and a callous dick to boot. When the Ramones were inducted into the Rock 'n' Roll Hall Of Fame, Johnny's acceptance speech ended with, "God Bless America, and God Bless George W. Bush."

Posted by Hooty Sapperticker | December 20, 2007 3:13 PM
25

That's a terrible list - all these names are on it twice:

Ben Stein
Bo Derek
Charlton Heston
James Woods
Jeff "Skunk" Baxter
Lee Greenwood
Mike Ditka
Rachel Hunter
Robert Duvall
Wayne Newton

That's almost 5% pad, that list is.

Posted by Chip | December 20, 2007 3:20 PM
26

It's true. Johnny Ramone was a hellacious asshole.

The baby Jesus killed him. Amen.

Posted by Original Andrew | December 20, 2007 3:22 PM
27

Joey Ramone, though, was quite liberal. I read that he and Johnny used to really go at it, and apparently they didn't speak to each other after breaking up, even when Joey was dying.

Posted by Matt from Denver | December 20, 2007 3:24 PM
28

I am shocked to see John Malkovich on the list of damnation.

Posted by thehawke | December 20, 2007 3:26 PM
29

@ 25,


I noticed all the duplicates too, but everybody knows those jack-booted fuckwads can't count (at least without mouthing the numbers).

Posted by Original Andrew | December 20, 2007 3:26 PM
30

Where's JUDAH?!?! Shitting his pants?!!

Posted by Mr. Poe | December 20, 2007 3:29 PM
31

I'm guessing that list has lax rules to qualify as Republicans. I'd guess it's people who contributed. I just can't believe John Malkovich, a man who spends his time between Paris and the People's Republic of Cambridge, would have all the bona fides.

Posted by Ryno | December 20, 2007 3:32 PM
32

I particularly like part where a band, as an entity separate from its individual members, can have a political affiliation.

Posted by als | December 20, 2007 4:02 PM
33

"Most sports types are Republicans: They're nouveau riche and dumb as rocks."

Not really. but some are.

Posted by SeMe | December 20, 2007 4:40 PM
34

The ones who disagree with me are.

Posted by Fnarf | December 20, 2007 4:45 PM
35

Wayne Gretzky sure is.

Posted by Irena | December 20, 2007 5:22 PM
36

Awesome post Adrian!

Although, to be fair, Donnie and Marie have been total douchebags forever, so this is nothing new, nor terribly surprising.

Still, easily the most entertaining post of the day.

Posted by SDA in SEA | December 20, 2007 6:02 PM
37

Quick doctrinal correction...


As a former mormon I can say with some authority that the mormon stance is that black people are decended from Cain after he was "marked" by God for killing Able. And as someone else already pointed out, the stance that african-americans were morally inferior was abandoned in the 70s


Other than that, the only thing I have to say is Why are you suprised that celebrity mormons are endorsing the mormon candidate? Yes Romney's a republican and anti gay but if Donnie and Marie were pro gay, they wouldn't be mormon. It's not hard to be mormon and pro republican... in fact it's almost a requirement.

Posted by crystina | December 20, 2007 7:04 PM
38

Hi,
I don't understand your post. I've been following Marie a bit since Dancing with the Stars, and she has not officially endorsed Romney. She also, from what I can tell, is good friends with Rosie O'Donnell (gay), Oprah (black). At least, Rosie and Oprah say they're friends with Marie. I don't understand your hostility. I haven't seen anything to justify it, but I may be missing something. Are there some comments either Donny or Marie have made that are negative toward gays or blacks? I'd be interested.

Posted by Maya | December 20, 2007 7:14 PM
39

As a still practicing Mormon I can say you have it wrong on both doctrines. I can acknowledge that the practice that was ENDED ALMOST 30 YEARS AGO was racist. The church's beliefs on homosexuality are that it's a sin but significantly less severe than murder and a lot of others. If that the church believes it a sin makes you think we hate you, then you're welcome to that leap of logic. On the civil rights protests, those were at their peak in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Things were pretty quiet when the 1978 thing happened.

Not that any of this matters. Your message to me is probably still "fuck you" to which I respond with a typically Mormon plastic "Have a nice day."

Posted by Stillamo | December 20, 2007 8:32 PM
40

@39: Isn't that awfully convenient, that God would suddenly change his mind on the whole "blacks are damned for being black" bit right around the time that society was too? It's almost as if claiming to know anything about God is a complete epistemological impossibility, and people are just making it up as they go!

At least I'm honest about my religion and how we just make shit up. Hail Eris!

Posted by AnonymousCoward | December 20, 2007 9:44 PM
41

hey, 40: like vatican II, times changed and the religion had to get with the times or go broke. it's simple economics.

Posted by ellarosa | December 21, 2007 12:32 AM
42

@39, you can take your Mormon Apologetics elsewhere.

To all others...Mormon Apologists will tell you that the Church is not racist, because the Church began to allow blacks full participation in 1978. But, pay attention to this small detail that the apologists gloss over (including Mitt Romney). The LDS Church maintains that its racist policy against blacks was divinely inspired by God. That's right, they've never apologized for the policies, and don't feel any need to do so. They aren't racist, God is, and they just follow god!

As to the Homosexual question...again, @39 would have you believe that the LDS belief is a simple designation as a sin, comparing it to a white lie or stealing a piece of candy. Hmmm...the Proclamation on the Family is among the most important doctrinal developments in the Church in the past 15 years, and in it, they call for no less than the eradication of the homosexual community both spritually and politically (even if they don't use those words). The LDS Church is among the leading opponents of gay marriage; they don't just confine their activism to their chapels, they've taken this fight to the halls of government. @39, this is far beyond a simple designation as a sin, and yes, it is hate, even if it's said with flowery words by elderly white gentlemen in SLC.

Don't be fooled by the fresh scrubbed face of Mormonism; it's hatred and division and darkness.

Posted by Timothy | December 21, 2007 12:39 AM
43

#42: I'd like to think you don't view this forum as a place for overt viewpoint discrimination. You know, diversity, marketplace of ideas and whatnot. "You can take your Mormon Apologetics (capitalized, even!) elsewhere"? Seriously? Your kind aren't welcome here? Are you six?

Yeah Mormonism is racist, but most Mormons are at least not proud of that history. And at least a significant chunk Mormons don't buy the hardcore anti-gay crap coming out of SLC.

But "hatred and division and darkness"? Give the folks just a little bit of credit at least. They may be sheep but so are most people.

Posted by Joe | December 21, 2007 8:07 AM
44

As a gay male, I'm appalled with the tone of Adrain's post, but agree mosty with his sentiments. I feel sorry for gay kids born into Mormon familes, but can also recognize the virtues and comfort of a spirtual life whether it be Mormon, Baptist, Jewish, Islamic, or whatever -- and the good charitable works they do for the community.

As far as Republicans go, I hate the fact that gays only have one party to work with. I have a lot of respect for Log Cabin Republicans. Indeed, I have voted Republican on occasions because he/she was the better candidate on issues tha have paramount importance, like the economy. Someday the GOP will be more inclusive and that will be a good thing because the Dems should not have the monopoly on caring about us.

Adrain, you'll mature and you punditry will elevate to a higher caliber.

Posted by raindrop | December 21, 2007 8:08 AM
45

Dixie Carter was my next door neighbor growing up in little ol McLemorseville, TN. I'm a big ol 'mo and my bf and I can personally attest that she doesn't belong on that list.

Posted by Jeremiah | December 21, 2007 8:14 AM
46

@9:

please enlighten me as to particular preposterousnesses of Buddhism.

i doesn't seem to embrace beliefs & practices that are utterly ridiculous on their face - say, looking into a hat for divination. in fact, it encourages skepticism.

many reject the notion that it is even a religion, but is instead a science of happiness.

Posted by max solomon | December 21, 2007 9:41 AM
47

@43, you're right. I shouldn't have admonished the Mormon apologist for posting here. It's just that I bristle when Mormons take advantage of a lack of understanding by non-Mormons of LDS theology to spin the story. It's called lying. Even though often, the LDS Mormon is also lying to themselves.

As for your notion that most mormons aren't proud of their history? Well, maybe, but I'm not so sure of that. Most mormons feel no need to apologize for their racist history.

I take exception to your idea that we shouldn't lay the beliefs and practices of the organization onto the shoulders of the participants in the organization. That is the only place TO lay blame (or praise) for any organization. Yours is another apologetic notion that nobody is to blame for a corporate religion. I expect people are smart enough to learn to recognize bigotry and hatred, and if they are unwilling to act in the face of that, they have become co-equal to the governing body that institutes Church policy.

So, bring your opinions, just don't expect to get very far if you twist history to suit the apologetic view of Mormonism.

Posted by Timothy | December 21, 2007 10:05 AM
48

Shall I blame you, then, for the shortcomings of the Democratic congressional majority? The line employees at Enron for its demise? The MPs at Abu Ghraib?

Posted by Joe | December 21, 2007 10:22 AM
49

Help me out here, If I am correct, Mormons don't believe in a burning hell, but rather "outer darkness" which is a seperation from god, not physical torment.

Posted by Jeff | December 21, 2007 10:42 AM
50

@44: I admit I don't understand Log Cabin Republicans. To me it always seems like it makes about as much sense as being a Jewish neo-Nazi.

Posted by Orv | December 21, 2007 10:54 AM
51

@42

I didn't lie in my post. You did. I admitted that the policy on blacks was racist. Even if it was a practice ordered by God, I believe it was because church members were racist. Hardly a soft sell.

I wrote that homosexuality was a sin less severe than murder, but didn't equate it with a white lie, or stealing candy. You did. That was your lie. That would never be my intent. Yes, people can be excommunicated for homosexuality. Hell, steal enough candy and you can probably be exed for that, too.

My intent here was to contradict a couple of errors, but in your case I was right when I admitted that it probably wouldn't matter.

As for your comment: "Don't be fooled by the fresh scrubbed face of Mormonism; it's hatred and division and darkness," if I were gay or otherwise disenfranchised from the LDS church, I'd probably feel the same way. I'm one of those who isn't comfortable with all the doctrine. I've sometimes whispered to friends that I believe the church is true, but wish it wasn't. I see what extremists of all faiths do in the name of God and wonder how far some of my fellow churchmates might take their beliefs. And yet, I feel like God wants me to be there.

I don't feel any of the hatred or darkness you describe. The division, yes.

Posted by Stillamo | December 21, 2007 1:26 PM
52

Did Donny & Marie get a divorce? I skimmed.

Posted by Sorry | December 21, 2007 2:43 PM
53

@51: So, basically, you understand you're worshipping a hateful deity, but worship anyway? "Please God... I'll do whatever you want, just don't hurt me?"

Posted by AnonymousCoward | December 21, 2007 2:56 PM
54

@53

Of course, you know I don't see it that way. I do believe that you and I, were we to ever meet, could come to understand each other and respect each other. We could talk about these issues and probably never agree, but the conversation would be something we'd both gain from. That's not likely to happen in this forum. I trust that one day you'll have the opportunity to have a similar encounter with some other Mormon and you both will learn something.

Take care.

Posted by Stillamo | December 21, 2007 6:08 PM
55

Mr. Ryan: Being still in the prime of youth you would not remember that actor Paul Lynde was a frequent guest on the Donny and Marie Show. Like it or not D & M have known, and presumably liked, a gay person. Oddly, Mr. Lynde's appearances on the show is the only thing I remember.

Posted by Robert | December 22, 2007 12:09 PM
56

A couple of points of clarification and explanation from a recently escaped exmo:

First, the Mormon doctine concerning hell is complicated, and various Mormon theologians have differing opinions on the subject. The simple version taught to children in primary is that there are three kingdoms, or degrees of glory, to which people may be assigned based on their level of righteousness while on earth. The highest kingdom/degree is where God the Father lives and is called the Celestial Kingdom. When a Mormon refers to Heaven, this is generally what s/he means.

Those who are baptized as Mormons while on earth (or who, never having the opportunity on earth, accept Mormonism in the afterlife) and who live faithfully to it's precepts and 'endure to the end,' will end up in the Celestial Kingdom, according to Mormon theology.

The second kingdom/degree is called the Terestrial Kingdom. It is taught that all of the generally good people of this earth who, for one reason or another, refuse to become a Mormon, will end up here. They may be visited by Jesus Christ, but they will not live with him.

The third kingdom/degree is called the Telestial Kingdom. It is compared frequently to life on earth. This is where Mormons teach that all of the reprobates from earth will end up spending eternity. This is the least of all of the 'degrees of glory.'

They are called 'degrees of glory' because Mormons believe that almost all men/women have some good in them and are therefore worthy of some reward. So, the believe that God will give everyone a reward of some kind, even if it is only an earthlike reward in the Telestial Kingdom.

There is also a special designation called Outer Darkness, a place reserved for the most wicked of the wicked. Who are these evil beasts? Moa Tsetung? Hitler? Stalin? No, this place is reserved specifically for people who are said to have a sure knowledge of 'the truthfulness of the gospel' and then turn against it to fight it. Such people are called 'sons of perdition' and are said to be 'cast out.'

Now, within and about these doctrines swirls a great deal of controversy among apologist and serious theologians, and endless debate could occur about this subject alone. But, ask your average Mormon and you will find that I have described what they were taught fairly accurately.

Posted by efrum | December 22, 2007 2:22 PM
57

Now, concerning racism and bigotry in the LDS church, it is absolutely true that the LDS church did deny equality (specifically of the Priesthood, but other issues as well) to people based on the color of their skin. The teachings on this subject have evolved over time, so if you ask a younger Mormon today what they were taught about the issue you will likely find a very different answer than if you ask an elderly person what they were taught in their youth.

I was taught that people of African descent were decendants of Cain, as has been said before here. Because they are decendants of Cain, they recieve the curse of Cain, which is a dark skin and a denial of church authority and equal access.

Now, in order to fully explain this doctrine I have to digress into another LDS doctrine first. Mormons believe that all people were born first as spirits in a spirit world. We lived there, according to LDS theology, for a long time with God. God had many spirit children. Two of those spirit children were Jehovah and Lucifer. God presented a plan for the progression of His spirit-children to all of the spirits there. Jehovah was chosen from among the spirits to be the savior of the world. Lucifer didn't like the plan and rebelled against it, taking a third of the spirits with him in his rebellion. And then there was war in heaven. Of course, he lost and was, with his followers, 'cast out' of heaven to dwell on earth and provide temptation to those who would be born here.

Now, we all forgot all of this when we were born on earth, according to doctrine.

Now, back to the issue of racism: It used to be taught that those who were born with 'dark skin' recieved that curse because they were spirits who were 'not valiant in opposing Lucifer in the war in heaven.' So the 'dark skin' was a sort of punishment for their prior lack of valiance.

It was also taught as a counterpoint that those who are born into Mormon families were born thus precisely because they were those who were heros of the war in heaven, fighting valiantly for the 'side of righteousness.'

It is out of these beliefs that the racism in Mormonism's past arose and was fostered.

@42 is entirely correct when he says that the Mormon church has never apologized and that they view they teach, when cornered to do so, that the decisions were made by God and that they are merely following God's will. If you question the morality of the decisions they will generally fall back on the 'God knows so much more than we do that we cannot question His decisions' answer. They say things like, 'We simply don't know enough to judge. If God says to do something we shouldn't question Him.'

Personally, I think that the church has gotten itself into a difficult situation. On the one hand they have taught for years that the words and decisions of the leaders of the church are directed by Jesus Christ. They even teach that the words of their leaders are to be considered as though they were scripture and that they should be read and studied as such, and followed obediently.

On the other hand, they are now teaching that racism is wrong and that discrimination based on race is evil. This is a road they really had to go down in order to continue as a viable religion. But it puts them in an awkward place.

If they apologize for past actions they have to publicly admit that their leaders are not as God-directed as they like their members to believe.

But if they don't apologize they can continue to be called unashamedly racist. I think, personally, that they are just hoping that the issue will go away in time and that people will simply forget. That way they never have to adress it at all.

Posted by efrum | December 22, 2007 2:49 PM
58

AS far as homosexual discrimination is concerned, Mormon teachings are in the process of rapid evolution. It used to be taught that homosexuality was a choice, and that as such it was a despicably evil sin. Those who were homosexual but wanted to remain Mormon were often subjected to torturously evil practices such as electroshock therapy, typically administered at Brigham Young University.

After that homosexual Mormons were told to deny and fight their feelings, and to get married and have children anyway. This policy has lead directly to a great number of broken homes and heartache in the Mormon community and is being phased out.

Today it is more commonly taught that homosexuality is a natural disorder, and that acting on such feelings is sinful. Homosexual Mormons today are told to remain single and celebate, and to 'endure the burden they are called to endure in this life' and 'endure to the end.' This is still grossly offensive, but is, never-the-less, moving in a better direction.

Visit this link for the most current official communication from Mormon leadership on this subject:
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=e5cbba12dc825110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&hideNav=1

Posted by efrum | December 22, 2007 3:05 PM
59

Joe @48... those are not comparable analogies. Giving your support to a pluralistic system wherein minority opinions have a basic set of rights and there's freedom to work within they system to change the system changes the nature and morality of working with the system.

Pledging your allegiance to an authoritarian communal governing system (as LDS Mormonism is) is granting your power into the hands of those who would use it absent your input and/or consent.

The corporate comparison fails unless and until the average employee has knowledge of wrongdoing; once they gain that knowledge and fail to act, then they may become morally complicit, and the analogy would hold. And, still, corporate governing bodies are semi-democratic through their shareholders. The morality in a democratic system of governance falls on the shoulders of those who support specific policies of wrongdoing, not onto the shoulders of those who are merely working within the system.

Again, none of that mitigation applies to those who cede their power and life's energy to an authoritarian organization, willingly, as do the members of the LDS Church.

Posted by Timothy | December 24, 2007 2:12 PM

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