Comments on Bag of Spanners

I have to agree. Seattle women dress rather frumpy and do little in the way of "upkeep." That may be anti-feminist of me, but I dare you to go to Costco or Ikea on a Saturday or Sunday morning and not be horrified.

They're both right. Cosmpopolitan London women do indeed rock out with their crumpets out. The rest of Britain, however, makes West Seattle look like the Oscars.

And yeah, Seattle chicks, in general, don't hold a candle to Londonettes. They're not really trying, though, so it's probably not fair to compare...

Disagree. Seattle is full of good looking trim.

HBC always looks awesome. I'm sick of seeing mannequins.

3 - How can you tell under all that polar fleece? MMMM birkenstocks are sooooo sexy!

5-just need to know where to look.

if you think seattle women are the ugliest & most poorly dressed you've seen in Murka, then you haven't been many places in Murka.

try Houston.
or the midwest.

Funny, Just this morning I was lammenting how many women on my bus were wearing their "outdoor wear" downtown to work. Leave the gortex for the slopes people!

What a bunch of garbage.

Consider the source. I am usually appalled by the by the way European tourists here in NYC dress. The author's London based sister may not be the best authority.

What @7 said, more or less. The Rust Belt region is very rich in poor fashion sense. For both genders.

I don't have that problem - the one where you criticize women to be prettier.

This is utter silliness. There are beautiful and sexy and fashionable people everywhere, including Seattle. Is it a 'per-capita' thing? YMMV. Who cares if they're not "world capital hott" according to one person who's brother happens to blog... Who, by the way, sounds envious; I would study her motivations for saying that more closely. In the end it's her opinion, and weighs very little.

Incidentally, that photo looks nothing like Helena Bonham Carter and Michelle Pfeiffer. wtf?

"Take, for example, Helena Bonham Carter, a spectacular example of the English rose. And yet she is regularly photographed looking like a bag of spanners. Can you imagine a similar photo of the American equivalent..." I would say that Britney is typically lookin like a Bag 'o Spanners (whatever the hell that means).

>>Incidentally, that photo looks nothing like Helena Bonham Carter and Michelle Pfeiffer. wtf?
Of course not. It's French and Saunders!

"A bag of spanners" is roughly like "a sack of potatoes". Spanners are wrenches. A bag of them would be lumpy, and unfashionable.

I'm pretty sure Helena Bonham Carter looks better and dresses better than Michelle Pfeiffer eight days out of seven. But I don't think the couture habits of movie stars has much to do with the rest of the population.

W00t to the comment about Helena. America definitely has its share of ugly women, but what bothers me more is the ones who could be attractive if they put a little effort into it, but don't. Heck, here in Denver you're lucky just to find a woman who speaks English.

Ugh.. please, let's get into a ridiculous discussion about which city has the hotter babes. Londoners are the ugliest! No, Seattle! No, the Midwest! You've got to be kidding me. I much prefer Charles' indecipherable Marxists rants to this crap.

@17

but what bothers me more is the ones who could be attractive if they put a little effort into it, but don't.

Honestly, if you're a heterosexual American male, you probably don't want to start going off about that. The thing about all those better-dressed European women is that they share the street with better-dressed European men.

Maxine:

Going to Costco expecting to see glamorous women is like going to the Puyallup Fair and expecting to eat Lobster Thermidor.

Comte: That is EXACTLY my point. Women in this area have to have an occasion to dress nicely. It is almost like they have no self respect. They demand that men need to accept them for who they are not what they look like, and they look like shit. I feel sorry for the guys in this area. I also get tired of people looking at me like I'm from Mars because I happen to like dressing nice, doing my hair and wearing makeup on a daily basis.

@21 - Yeah, I hear you, but tsm @19 hit the nail on the head: all those frumpy-looking women at Costco on Saturdays are likely accompanied by even frumpier-looking men. If I wore pressed slacks and fancy shoes every day, I'd expect more from my girl. As it is, where my casual wear is ripped jeans and band t-shirts, I'm not really in a position to make demands.

Hernandez: The difference is men look good when they are a little scruffy sometimes (in my opinion) women - not so much. It is more of caring how you are wearing the clothes, not the clothes themselves. You dress for the occasion. Pressed slacks and dress shoes aren't required for a trip to the store. What I am talking about is women who probably didn't even brush their hair or teeth before they subjected us to their horrifying appearance.Yuck.

@21... just because a woman wears comfortable clothes and no make-up, that means she has no self-esteem???

Arghhh... no... must not get sucked into this absurd conversation... Will someone please post something about pitbulls or something?

And the men in Seattle are fashion plates?

*Sandals with socks.

*Ponytails with beards.

*Neck tattoos and noserings

Let's face, unless your definition of stylin' is bike messengers, tech geeks or Burning Man Rivetheads, Seattle ain't exactly fashion central.

#19: No kidding. Try being a heterosexual, single female and surveying the sea of available slobs in this town. I'm sorry but I think dudes definitely have the market cornered on bad fashion/unkempt looks in Seattle. I care about how I look but sometimes it seems pointless in the land of the Utilikilt.

I love how the way other people dress is a real problem for people here. What is the point in dressing up if it doesnt net you anything? or how about, what is the point of looking nice if the only people that care are whining bitches and not people you actually care about?

Seattle is frumpy. So what?

Why don't you all quit bitching and move to New York already.

it's nice when you don't have to worry about what to wear or how to do your hair. it is nice being around slobby types because you don't have to live up to any sort of shallow expectation.

Julie:
I said it was almost as if they have no self respect, not that they have no self esteem. I would like to alter that to say that it is almost as if they have no respect for other people. People in this town don't even dress up to go to dinner. Pathetic.

Good point about slobby guys - the only place in the U.S. where men make a point of wearing well-fitting, attractive clothes is in NYC. I visit relatives in the midwest often enough, and while many of the women win no prizes I am particularly appalled by the men, who as a rule don't dress like adults. White, knobby sneakers, baggy jeans and team windbreakers are for 10-year-olds! These guys must think that caring about clothes is somehow un-manly. A pair of good shoes and a tailored blazer make a guy look attractive and confident, just as good clothes do the same for women.

maxine, why should they dress up? has your monocle fallen into your martini glass yet?

I agree with Hernandez. No one in Seattle has a right to complain, both sexes are pretty low maintennance. Nonetheless, there are plenty of gorgeous women in Seattle (I'm married to one), and you are bunkering down when you're heading to Costco or IKEA.

Seattle needs an H&M and a Zara. Vancouver is far more stylish - cheap chic. New York is pretty casual really, but people do pay a lot to look casual. I don't think you could find anyone to date in NYC who isn't nuts. Women in London are pretty easy, which allows for a little grace on the attractiveness. Women in Paris are incredible.

msl, what is the point of looking attractive and confident if you get the same net result from no effort? this is stupid.

everyone that is saying that men, women, etc. should dress up, and really get fashionable, arent doing it because it is good for the walmart shopper, but because they put so much of their own existence in dressing and looking a certain way. when someone doesnt it flies in the face of their existence.

the whole tapered jeans, polo shirt, running shoe is typical for middle aged men but if the person wearing it is happy, why are you so stressed about it? god forbid you're all scandalized by people dressing down and being content with themselves.

Down with visual pollution!!!!

maybe you should put your eyes out if it bothers you that much.

1. Hey how dare anyone say Seattle women/people are frumpy. Frumpy is undefined and it's just not true.

2. Wait, Seattle people are frumpy -- and we're proud of it. Because it's part of what makes us different.

3. Oh yeah, another thing -- people who aren't frumpy and who say they like dressing up, well, they're shallow.

4. Everyone who thinks we're frumpty, especially from those big cities that claim to be more fashion forward like NY, Paris Milan, well they are shallow.

5. Those other people also generalize. Horrible. Bad.

And as we all know, all generalizations are false and none of them are true!!

6. Seattleites would never do that -- generalizing and putting other people down and making comments about people in other cities. All people everywhere on earth are equal and are equally valid and Worthy of Respect.

7. Therefore every please shut up on this topic it is a forbidden topic.
Stop thinking about different places and cities and what makes them different!!

8. That way we can be nice!! (Everyone knows Seattle people are the nicest in the world. You're welcome!!)
:) :) :)

What's with the butthurt, BA@34? Rest assured that those of us who don't walk around in sandals and old T-shirts aren't threatened by your sloth, nor will we send thugs with Ferragamo to your door. We just go on record as finding it a lamentable and aesthetically unpleasant state of affairs, that's all.

I know I'm the nicest person in the world.

Bellevue Ave:

In the city of the chronically depressed your comment doesn't surprise me. However, if you want to dress like a slob and "do the minimum to get a gortex-clad piece of ass that is your business. I for one, have standards. Yuck. I know you are sitting there in your ketchup-stained tee shirt and boxers with mismatched socks.

At least we have better teeth!

people who like dressing up arent shallow just by wanting to dress up. it is when they expect other people to dress up and they look down on those that don't dress up that it starts edging towards being shallow.

it'd be like someone who drives a benz or BMW lamenting the fact that there are hyundais and kias on the road, or hell old buicks. why does it matter what other people drive? are you judging them based on the car they drive? and if you are you're appraising them on the goods they buy, not the person is what I would call "shallow"

you have pretty easy standards then maxine. it isn't hard to dress nice, it just costs more than what it's worth most the time.

spend $1000 on an outfit and fuck maxine or
spend $200 on an outfit and have a net loss of 1 person from the pool.

as for Tsm, most of it is because I totally do not understand how other people not living up to a visual standard makes my life worse.

It's like reverse racism all over again.

Helena Bonham Carter, a spectacular example of the English rose. And yet she is regularly photographed looking like a bag of spanners.

Helena's appearance (defined as hairstyle and fashion sense) definitely has been going down the tubes lately. I blame Tim Burton, not her Englishness.

Right on Bellevue Ave... I prefer dressing up to dressing down these days, and it's a rare day when I don't wear makeup. But people who bitch about other people who don't look as nice as them are morons. People who think it's a waste when a woman "could be attractive if they put a little effort into it" are even more so.

HOW FUCKING INANE CAN YOU GET? PEOPLE IN SEATTLE ARE JUST PEOPLE, NOT FASHION PLATES!

I'm in the "every-day clothes every day, fancy clothes on fancy days" camp. Practicality, people! I'd like to add, too, that "worth looking at" isn't the highest, best criterion I've heard. Thank you, television and fashion society, for fostering this attitude.

Brushing your teeth? Not optional. Make-up? Optional. Very optional.

I think I must be the polar opposite of that writer. I grew up near Seattle, and I love the way the women look there. Every time I go home for the holidays I constantly find myself randomly swooning.

I went to college near Los Angeles, and then went to work right between Beverly Hills and Santa Monica. The women there are amazingly bland. They all have the same physique, go to the same yoga place, wear the same clothes, have the same inane conversations, and they all have the same fucking blonde highlights From what I can tell, most of them want to become actresses, or, if they can't manage that, trophy wives. Yawn.

Women in the Puget Sound seem to take care of themselves in more sensible ways and can actually be themselves. That writer seems to be complaining that there isn't this "plastic hotness above all else" hive mind going on in England. I would far rather date someone who's themselves than someone who wastes vast sums of money trying to fit into a boring stupid Barbie mold.

(disclaimer: yes, I met some lovely people in Los Angeles, but they're much fewer and further between)

Since when does not dressing like a slob = Potential trophy-wife bitch or stuck up asshole?
Your appearance, no matter what you wear, shows people how you feel about them (either subconsciously or consciously.) When you roll out of bed and throw on something that *smells* clean you are showing that you have little regard for the people you are going to be around. It is like my Grandma always said: "Honey, you dress for the occasion," and "you can handle any crisis with a little lipstick." Looking good = feeling good.

"When you roll out of bed and throw on something that *smells* clean you are showing that you have little regard for the people you are going to be around."

What? That's showing lots of regard. It shows you don't want them to have to suffer your smell. Being frumpy is not a public offence. Being smelly IS.

"looking good = feeling good"

there you have it folks. no more thought is required of this statement.

it is amazing though that people who don't look good, feel good though. or that people who look good feel miserable at times.

also, your grandmother sounds like a soundbite from legally blond.

Have to agree with sawall.

Seattle women usually are missing that little soldier inside of them marching them into tanning salons and Sephora outlets, but that's hardly a showstopper. They tend to have a more natural shape, not the sickly, hyper-arobicized look of a fashion model (NYC, London) nor the absurdly inflated breasts and Botox-frozen stares of porn stars (LA).

If you're talking about the actual genetic stock in terms of raw beauty, this region can compete with anybody.

I have never, and will never, understand moving to a new place and then spending the rest of your days lamenting that said place is not exactly like the place from whence you came. I wouldn't move to Phoenix and complain that it was hot. I wouldn't move to the Bible Belt and complain about the whole "what church do you go to" on the first meeting thing. I wouldn't move to a small town and then complain about everybody being all up in my business.

The roads to Seattle go both ways, people. If you find it so horribly loathsome here, well, there IS an option.

Bellvue Ave -

How people dress shows their social status. People who dress a shred more formally (and fashionably, but that's a separate issue) get taken more seriously by others around them. It's why laywers wear suits to court, and why doctors wear white lab coats, and why I'm never caught dead on the street in sweatpants. This is not to say that formally dressed people have more inherent worth - that's far from the case, and not what I'm arguing - it's that dressing the part is important. No one needs to sashay down the avenues in ballgowns, but it doesn't hurt to put on a decent pair of pants.

Let me get this straight. Seattle - we dress like slobs, are proud to be fatties, dislike anyone with a differing opinion yet claim to be inclusive, refuse to accept the fact that we are an actual city and get a decent mass transit system, and are the most depressing passive-aggressive people on the planet. Don't like it...then get out.
Any wonder why we get such a bad rep?

Oh, and I've lived here for over twenty years. Not leaving, honey.

they don't get taken more seriously unless that is an important value to the other person. if what you are seeing aroudn suggests it isn't an important value why insist that it is? for most of seattle, looking like you're on business from new york doesnt make you look like you're more serious, it makes you stand out from the crowd.

most hte people I know don't wear a suit and tie to work because it doesn't fit the culture. are they less serious about their business than others? no, but the culture doesn't place an emphasis on presentation, rather it is on results.

For Chrissake, it's not "the Puget Sound". Do you say "the Lake Washington"? "The 12th Avenue"?

I don't know what Seattle Maxine lives in, but my Seattle has lots of beautiful women. They dress fine, they're at a healthy weight, they smell good, and are in no way offensive to me. I don't understand this problem she and Charles' sister seem to have with Seattle women.

i, for one, think people who don't wear suits need to get slapped by the Man.

i, for two, dress to impress to give the appearance i am in a higher class. it also garners me more respect from others in my adopted class.

i, for three, feel that setting new trends in fashion styles may elevate me to enlightened status, hence closer to being one and feeling good.

i, for four, believe we need to isolate those who eat ketchup, those who wear gortex, and those slobs that can't be taken seriously.

i, for five, have heard that a scientist in Papua has just discovered a giant scientist perviously unknown to scientists. maybe that giant scientist with his expanded brain capacity can fix seattle's fatties, dislikers of anyone with a differing opinion, refusers whom accept the fact that we are an actual city and develop a decent mass transit system, and our depressed passive-aggressive citizens. in that order.

Paris. In the fall.

Makes London look like they're just waking up ...

Seattle is win in the winter. The women around here know how to dress for the cold in the winter. Give me my native Tucsonan girls for the summer, however- they know how to take clothing off when it gets warm.

It takes the same amount of time to wear a nice pair of jeans or slacks and a shirt as it does to wear sweats and a ripped t-shirt. Now people are even wearing their jammies out! Repulsive.

I have never been to London but I have heard from several people that they have no fashion sense.

i work with tourists, many of them british. i am disgusted by how many of these obese british ladies refuse to wear a bra. it's like two saggy sacks of flour bouncing off their bloated guts.

Well I like to think I'm pretty good looking, and like to dress up... but seriously, getting pissy because someone is wearing gortex in the middle of winter on a bus is kinda demented.

And I really don't care what people at costco think about my pants.

37 has the best post on the topic yet.

Personally, I judge class and intelligence on speech, not clothing or makeup. Accents and dialects don't matter (except they're cute), it's how the concepts are conveyed.

Makeup is stupid. Why on earth should women have to take twice as long to get ready to go out in the morning as necessary? Makeup only makes sense for people in front of cameras, where the light bleaches out natural coloring.

What is with wanting women to dress in a way that you think is pleasing for you? Why should any women be criticized and have to answer for the way they dress?
This is no difference in attitude where women are expected to dress in a particular way for men in countries where women have no rights.
Women do not have to answer to men for the way they dress. The men should look in a mirror and answer to themselves for the way they dress which is like slobs most of the time. Slobs that expect eye candy to be walking for their pleasure all the time and when women do not look good they try to make them feel bad for not entertaining men. Go look in the mirror.

First, I absolutely adore how "Seattle" "London" and "Paris" are all specific geographical locations, but it's just genertic "Midwest." Because obviously there's no difference between the way people in the Twin Cities and Madison dress. No, those sorority girls with their furry boots are a fixture of your imagination.

Furthermore, judging someone by dress is basically classist (is that good? bad?) I don't dress up every day because I just don't have the moola for nice clothes. I can't afford to take my 1-3 suits out every single day and get them dry cleaned, or risk spilling something atrocious on them. I rememeber while watching "Devil Wears Prada"... "How do they go whole days without getting their clothes AT ALL rumpled or stained or at least not-fresh looking? It's magic!"

@68: Also note other income-related factors like owning a car (although I acknowledge many people *can* afford a car but just don't drive one). I wear ugly-ass boots that keep my feet warm and dry because I take the streetcar to work. I walk in puddles, trudge through filthy slush and snow.

If I could cruise into a nice underground parking lot from my indoor garage and not get my peeptoes wet (or encrusted with gross road salt), you betcha I'd be wearing nice shoes. And a lighter, non-Yeti-like coat. And no hat to ruin my salon hairdo.