Slog - Comments on Report from the Pro-Prop 1 Party http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/11/report_from_the_proprop_1_party I'm sitting at the Westin Hotel, trying to cool down from the slam-packed room that hosted the pro-Roads and Transit party. With the measure failing by a strong margin (about 44 to 56 percent) in all three of the region's counties, it was a grim scene, reminiscent of the pro-R-51 party in 2002, when that roads measure failed in part because of opposition from environmental groups. This time, of course, enviro groups were divided. Pierce County Exec John Ladenburg spoke first. He told the crowd that he was "certainly not conceding defeat at this point--a couple of years back at... Copyright 2008 Tue, 06 Nov 2007 21:27:49 -0800 Wed, 07 Nov 2007 12:11:05 -0800 http://www.movabletype.org/?v=3.34 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Comment by Perfect Voter OK, all you opponents of Roads and Transit: now what?

I'm waiting to see and read about YOUR alternative, now that you have (apparently) prevailed tonight.

]]> Perfect Voter http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/11/report_from_the_proprop_1_party#c843468 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/11/report_from_the_proprop_1_party#c843468 Stranger Election Control Board Tue, 06 Nov 2007 22:02:45 -0800 Comment by Anon Perfect Voter, allow perfect cherry picking.

Split the roads into one proposition, the transit into another, and then put both on the ballot.

]]> Anon http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/11/report_from_the_proprop_1_party#c843485 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/11/report_from_the_proprop_1_party#c843485 Stranger Election Control Board Tue, 06 Nov 2007 22:37:54 -0800 Comment by Gitai @1 Gimme the transit without the roads, or at least with no new lanes, and I'll vote for it.

]]> Gitai http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/11/report_from_the_proprop_1_party#c843496 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/11/report_from_the_proprop_1_party#c843496 Stranger Election Control Board Tue, 06 Nov 2007 22:55:02 -0800 Comment by greenlake There is no plan B, except to let folks suffer as oil prices skyrocket and they have no other commute options.

The fact is that the Stranger, which used to pride itself for challenging the Seattle consensus, has now gone native. They will find any excuse to prevent meaningful change.

Forward Thrust in 1970...Sound Transit in 1995...Monorail in 2005...Prop 1 in 2007. At every key moment, this region fails to embrace mass transit, and the acolytes of a new urbanism, like the Stranger, have continued that ugly trend. They've become everything they used to criticize.

]]> greenlake http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/11/report_from_the_proprop_1_party#c843497 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/11/report_from_the_proprop_1_party#c843497 Stranger Election Control Board Tue, 06 Nov 2007 22:55:34 -0800 Comment by greenlake @3, in her post from the anti-Prop 1 party, Erica explains that the Sierra Club will author a new measure...that will include roads.

Something does not add up here.

]]> greenlake http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/11/report_from_the_proprop_1_party#c843498 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/11/report_from_the_proprop_1_party#c843498 Stranger Election Control Board Tue, 06 Nov 2007 22:56:35 -0800 Comment by COMTE It will include "maintenance and safety" improvements on EXISTING roads, NOT addition of any NEW roads.

Learn to read, fer chrissakes.

]]> COMTE http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/11/report_from_the_proprop_1_party#c843508 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/11/report_from_the_proprop_1_party#c843508 Stranger Election Control Board Tue, 06 Nov 2007 23:15:44 -0800 Comment by MHD As a pretty solid pro-Prop-1 agitator, I sure hope you guys are right, that a substantially similar transit measure can go on the ballot and pass quickly.

If not, we're screwed.

]]> MHD http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/11/report_from_the_proprop_1_party#c843606 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/11/report_from_the_proprop_1_party#c843606 Stranger Election Control Board Wed, 07 Nov 2007 07:08:22 -0800 Comment by Will in Seattle Just use the backup plan you always had.

The negotiations already started a week ago. You know what that means.

ST2.1 (considering dropping the Pierce County segment which makes no sense until the Tacoma grid expands in dense to moderate density areas)

RTID - dead. dead. dead.

Critical existing bridge/roads/highways repair and replacement - coming back, probably Snohomish and King county only - because Pierce County Exec refused to play nice and so will live in a world of hurt for a while.

Next time don't bring a knife to a gun fight. The personal attacks you did on me and others were beyond the pale and didn't help you. Your basic ideas wouldn't sell and you failed to realize that.

]]> Will in Seattle http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/11/report_from_the_proprop_1_party#c843775 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/11/report_from_the_proprop_1_party#c843775 Stranger Election Control Board Wed, 07 Nov 2007 10:14:51 -0800 Comment by MHD Will,

I'd appreciate you distinguishing me from others like Cressona. I specifically avoided personal attacks against you or anyone else, and if there's a counterexample you can provide, I'd apologize for it.

I hope you're right about 2.1, not that "I" always had one. I also hope that an electorate that clearly distrustful of new taxes and all local government institutions will pass it.

]]> MHD http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/11/report_from_the_proprop_1_party#c843821 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/11/report_from_the_proprop_1_party#c843821 Stranger Election Control Board Wed, 07 Nov 2007 10:51:22 -0800 Comment by Gomez ST2 will not pass, Will, especially if the key funding will come from a MVET. Voters have a long memory, and they'll only remember voting this and the monorail down. They hate taxes and they're not fond of trains.

You have shown absolutely no understanding of why Prop 1 failed.

]]> Gomez http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/11/report_from_the_proprop_1_party#c843864 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/11/report_from_the_proprop_1_party#c843864 Stranger Election Control Board Wed, 07 Nov 2007 11:19:49 -0800 Comment by Judah This is great. A year from now when we're not voting on a new light rail package, I hope someone remembers to drop a flaming bag of dogshit on the Stranger's front stoop.

]]> Judah http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/11/report_from_the_proprop_1_party#c843893 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/11/report_from_the_proprop_1_party#c843893 Stranger Election Control Board Wed, 07 Nov 2007 11:41:26 -0800 Comment by Will in Seattle Thanks, MHD. Sorry that so many felt it necessary to do Karl Marx Rove personal attacks when they were losing the arguments - it didn't help you win the battle of ideas, and I've been in a lot worse, so it's a pretty useless tactic.

And ST2.1 will pass. As will the critical bridges and roads that our county (and maybe Snohomish) will vote on.

But for Pierce County - nothing. They burnt a lot of bridges in this battle and people know it.

]]> Will in Seattle http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/11/report_from_the_proprop_1_party#c843938 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/11/report_from_the_proprop_1_party#c843938 Stranger Election Control Board Wed, 07 Nov 2007 12:11:05 -0800