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1

Inaccuracy is indeed a sad thing. "Their" is a possessive pronoun. "There" is a place.

Posted by andy niable | November 29, 2007 1:41 PM
2

It's a nice piece in its way, but I like how it presumes that the world began in 1990, and that the barber shops, groceries, bars, and cafes that were there in previous hundred years or so don't count for anything. Only hipsters matter.

Posted by Fnarf | November 29, 2007 1:53 PM
3

@1: My fault. Thanks and fixed.

Posted by Eli Sanders | November 29, 2007 1:59 PM
4

my world hadn't even began by 1990. it's not that only hipsters matter, but that we (though i am, of course, not a hipster) related to this place and our history with it...

Posted by infrequent | November 29, 2007 2:01 PM
5

EVERYONE bitched about how pretentious Manray was but we were all there every fucking weekend being pretentious. All standing there being pretentious and not saying a word to anyone we did not know/slept with.

Posted by Just Me | November 29, 2007 2:03 PM
6

@5:

Not everyone kept going. I couldn't handle the pretension and stopped going years ago. :-) Same with Seattle's other gay bars, actually. It's too bad there aren't any regular, unassuming gay pubs.

Posted by James | November 29, 2007 2:27 PM
7

i'm sorry James, but ALL bars are assuming to some degree. Everyone and everything gives off some kind of attitude, no matter if you're in Manspray, or the Eagle, or Hattie's Hat or some anonymous Wagon Wheel in Po-dunk. It's just as you get older, you have less patience to deal with it.

Posted by michael strangeways | November 29, 2007 2:39 PM
8

@ James, well Madison Pub is not too bad but the Cuff has really become horrid and Purr has been filling in for Manray for the "stand and model" crowd.

What Seattle needs is a good gay singles bar. A bar you can walk into by yourself without being look upon as some loner freak of nature.

Posted by Just Me | November 29, 2007 2:47 PM
9

Side tagent: And spare me the idea of joining one of our sports clubs in Seattle, Frontrunners has some of the worse attitude I have seen in my life. And that includes living in West Hollywood.

Posted by Just Me | November 29, 2007 2:49 PM
10

@ Just Me:

Seattle definitely needs some kind of gay singles bar. I'm surprised there isn't one in a city of this size. But, what I'd really love is just a quiet, unassuming gay pub. Cheers for queers, in a way.

My single experience at Madison Pub was anything but that. Crowded, music turned up to an ears-splitting volume, rude and judgmental patrons, smoky (this was obviously before the smoking ban went into effect), and pretentious from here to Tuesday. On my way out, I asked a few guys: "Is it always like this here?" When they answered "Always!", I decided not to come back. It's been straight pubs ever since, though I honestly stick out less at straight bars than I ever did in gay bars.

Posted by James | November 29, 2007 3:02 PM
11

James, if you drink enough, you'll fit in anywhere.
Maybe you need a hit of..something to take the edge off.
Maybe that's why gays have their meth problems, it''s their inability to be social with each other?

Whatever.
Time will pass and things will change and people will die.

Posted by snark | November 29, 2007 3:15 PM
12

Manray is DEAD!!! YYIIPPEEEEEEEE!!!!

Posted by The Witch is Dead | November 29, 2007 3:18 PM
13

Ahhh, yes, the endless debate about Seattle's gay bars.

@ 8 has it pretty much right, IMHO. I like Mad Pub (and who can say that they "know" a place's vibe after just one visit, 10?) but the place that really had the whole thing nailed was Pony.

And we all know that's laying on its back today, all four legs sticking rigor mortis-like toward the cold, gray sky...

So what is the recipe for a great gay bar? Allow me to rattle off what I found so great about Pony:

* Small (it felt like a friend's basement)

* Not trying too hard on the design front -- down and dirty, silly-in-a-fun-way, and you could draw on the walls!

* Great music, and a great VARIETY of music

* Efficient, no nonsense service

* Skinny (I'm talking 26" waist!) guys dancing on top of the bar

* All ages? All colors? All cool! As a 44-year old gay, I am pushing up daisies in Manhunt Land -- but while all those guys online are so busy treating each other like shit, I was meeting hotties of all stripes who were fun, friendly, and one or two of whom even sucked my cock! Rock on!

* The photo booth. I'm sorry, but sometimes it's just fun to be stupid drunk and pull all your friends into one of those things for four frames of sepia-toned memories.

I went to Pony last night, at 8:00PM. My friends and I were the ONLY people there. We walked around the place and took it in -- it felt like family hour at a funeral home -- and after we'd chugged a couple ridiculously strong vodkas, we did the only natural thing: we started singing to the music playing and piled into the photo booth.

Thanks, Marcus, and I hope that something like Pony -- but not an actual, Cha-Cha style, reanimatored Pony -- comes along again soon.

Posted by Jubilation T. Cornball | November 29, 2007 5:57 PM
14

HEY CORNBALL: don't knock yourself for being 44 years old. It all depends on how you take care of yourself and if you are classy about it. Some of the hottest guys I know are in their 40's but then I am in my mid 30's....

Posted by Just Me | November 29, 2007 6:15 PM
15

@ 14 -- I don't knock myself at all! :-) But I am dead to the online crowd (generally speaking). That's OK -- I'm all grown up now, and probably need to meet a man in life, not on the computer.

Posted by Jubilation T. Cornball | November 29, 2007 6:29 PM
16

Jubilation,

You're not dead to any crowd until you're cold and buried. Don't count yourself out so quickly!

As for my single Madison Pub experience, I'm human. And like most of us, I'm quick to judge. First impressions count, as does input from others - and the others I've asked have told me the Mad Pub (great name!) is pretty much how I first experienced it several years ago (now minus the smoke, though, of course). It just seemed to me like any other gay bar experience I've had, minus the huge dance floor (which, frankly, was great, since I don't dance around gay men other than my boyfriend), and with the word "pub" thrown in. Will I ever go back and give it another chance? Perhaps. But that experience was so typical and so unwanted that I decided I'd give the countless hetero watering holes a chance. There's a disadvantage: many homophobic patrons have given us horrid looks or gestures (or worse) when my boyfriend and I forget where we are and exchance a handclasp or peck on the cheek. Currently, I can deal - I grew up in a very homophobic metropolis. But, honestly, I've been harassed, judged, and bothered less at those places than I have been at any Seattle gay bar... or pub.

I just wish this city's gay community wasn't so adept at hurting those who dare defy established stereotypes.

Posted by James | November 29, 2007 6:54 PM
17

I fucking loved Manray, and went last night to say goodbye to Rich. I really don't fit into the gay stereotype, and for me to the best dressed person in a gay bar, I'd have to go to Silverstone in Tacoma, but every Thursday and Saturday, people were friendly, flirted with me, occasionally got blown by me in the bathrooms, and we all had a good time together. I almost never encountered the snobbish people that Manray had a reputation for, and the only time I ever acted snobbishly was when a redneck from Puyallup in suede fringed duster wouldn't stop telling us about how he that damned judge was trying to railroad him on the assault charge.

If I wanted to encounter snobbery, I'd go to RPlace.

Posted by Gitai | November 29, 2007 7:03 PM
18

By the time Manray came along I was a fading star on the social scene, but I still thought it was nice. A lovely boy who lived across the pool from me worked there, and we exchanged pleasantries from time to time. I'd go there after work for a stately cocktail or nine, but it was always a bit too bright for me (being something of a Blanche Dubois when it comes to things like that)

These days I don't know my sugars from my purrs, and when I get out to The Cuff (my Alma Mater) it's almost a state occasion.

Posted by catalina vel-duray | November 29, 2007 10:32 PM

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