Comments on I Am an Awful Driver and I Blame It On Having to Pay for Driver's Ed

Or you could just drive slower and watch where you're going.

I could never drive well because I had to pay for drivers ed, and I'll never learn because I have to continually pay for my car and insurance.

Actually, I haven't driven a car in over five years, and I don't have a car, or a license. But still...

You do realize that if you were ever charged with vehicular manslaughter, that defense would utterly fail, right?

I'd be a lot happier to pay more taxes to build transit than to subsidize driver's ed. In fact, how much would we save if we eliminated it completely from our schools?

That sounds like my cheap-ass driving school (called Minnie Rates, whatever that means). Our final consisted of watching some wacky 80s teen comedy where the kid had to steal a car to drive his date to prom and list 5 driving violations. My teacher looked like The Dude, wore a stretched-out tank top and made me stop in the middle of a 4-lane road so he could pick up a promotional hat that found its way onto the street. I sympathize.

I never took Driver's Education, and I never went to Driving school. I drove around a parking lot with my dad a couple of times and then took the test when I was 19.

I am a good driver. People, including grandparents and other extremely safety-conscious people have told me this.

Good driving has nothing to do with schooling (or lack thereof) and everything to do with paying attention and learning from your mistakes. Or maybe you should just get a bicycle.

Maybe they should teach walking and bike riding for free?

Then noone would need to take How To Drive A Car And Get Road Rage 101.

Hmm...did we grow up in the same town (Westford, MA?)

Drivers ed didn't teach me how to drive, driving every day, with my dad, for six months taught me (the driving he let me do in parking lots at starting at age 11 helped, too).

Yeah, I second the comments on learning through experience. There's nothing they teach you in driving schools that you can't learn through careful practise. It's all safety and common sense.

I guess I had assumed it was obvious, but I don't drive currently, except the occasional Flexcar. I haven't even bothered to get a Washington State license, and I've lived here for 4 1/2 years.

#3: Duh. But it has to be taken into consideration that not having a driver's license is not cool for Seattle right now, especially if you live in the southern part of the city. It's just another poor tax to charge for driver's ed down there.

#5: Good for you, you had a good teacher in your dad. Not everyone has access to such a father and the good ol' American tradition of parking lot driving.

Boo hooo!

funny, I also learned to drive with my father starting at age 11. (Newton Mass.) Maybe driving ability is more correlated to having a father willing to teach you than the quality of your drivers ed (note I too was raised by a single mother with little money, we drove cars you could hear coming from blocks away, cars with leopard rust spots). Anyway, blaming drivers ed is off base. You have to practice and be intent on getting better.

damn, i must be old. i took driver's ed in a high school class in massachusetts...

but yeah, i learned to drive from my grandmother and mother and various other older folks. i did learn important rules of the road in driver's ed though... but i think they stop me from getting tickets moreso than getting in accidents.

I just wish intersections weren't completely perplexing and other drivers weren't so testy!!! Really! I GOT IT! You can stop honking and making hand gestures now!

So you drive Flexcars without a valid license? Are you insane? How is that even possible?

I took driver's ed in high school, and it was as you describe -- terrible crash films. We learned nothing about driving.

I learned from my dad in the parking lot, too. And on the freeway. There were some unpleasant moments when I stalled the manual transmission car on the on ramp -- my dad's pedagogical technique mostly involved swearing (he also taught me how to ride a bike on a gravel parking lot).

There are lots of parking lots around, even in the south end. As for the rules stuff -- how many feet behind a school bus or whatever -- just read the booklet they give you for free at the DMV.

Practice. Drive slow. Use your blinkers and your mirrors. Turn off the radio if you need to concentrate when you're beginning. It's not THAT hard....

@9 - I think the broader point to draw from commment #5 is that, regardless of how people are taught how to drive, some people are good at it and some suck at it. You would probably be a scary driver regardless of whether you had expensive driver's ed or not. I should know. I am a) a pretty mediocre driver and b) prone to road rage, and I can assure you that the quality of my driver's ed had no impact on either of those things.

Boo hoo! It's everybody else's fault no one wants to drive with Ari! Nothing to do with the fact that she doesn't care enough about being a good driver to actually do what it takes to be a good driver (there are lots of good suggestions posted).

But no, Ari, that would be harder than blaming everyone else, wouldn't it?

I take a pragmatic view.

Yes, it would be awesome to have perfect public transportation and none of us need cars. But the practical reality is that a vast majority of us DO drive.

Since the practical reality is that most people drive, it seems like a public safety benefit to all of us if people learn to drive well.

While driver's ed classes don't teach us everything, they do help. While imperfect, it seems like good public policy to have all new drivers take drivers ed.

When I was in high school, a hundred years ago, we ALL took drivers ed as soon as we turned 15 1/2. All of us, unless parents actively opted out. It was free, and part of the standard high school curriculum.

I know of quite a few high school kids now who don't take drivers ed, and wait till they are 18 to get their license, solely based on the cost of the class. Not just poor kids either. It is clear that the cost of the class is the major reason lots of kids don't take drivers ed.

It just seems like the cost to the state to cover drivers ed for all teenagers would be cheaper than the cost of having all those kids driving without any formal instruction.

An insurance actuary can probably shed some light on this. Insurance companies charge more for teenage drivers who have not taken drivers ed. Therefor, there must be some statistical data that indicates that taking drivers ed reduces the likelihood of getting in an accident.

Sure it saves a few bucks from the school system. But at what cost to society?

The town in which I grew up does not offer cheap cooking classes. I've read somewhere that cooking classes cost hundreds of dollars now. No one wants to eat my cooking. Waaah!

If cooking is mandatory in your community (i.e. there are no reliable takeout options), then cooking classes should be taught in the schools for free.

What's wrong with a little road rage? Relieves stress, clears the arteries. Just this morning I shot a bird, jiggled my jerk-off fist twice, and ran through the better part of my swearing repertoire, including "fuckhead!", "goddamn cowboy!", "fucking jerkwater, pick a lane!", and "nice signal, asswipe!" I arrived at work all refreshed and cheerful.

I'm 37 and I've never had a driver's license. I took driver's ed in school (on an automatic, the only option, but my mom had a manual, and she refused to let me even attempt to drive the car, ever), I've had learner's permits in 3 states (PA, OH and MO) but somehow only managed to take the test once. I had a great stick shift teacher in college - ew, that sounds dirty - but never quite felt comfortable with it.

I haven't driven since 1994. Unfortunately, I am now of the age where friends either don't have time or aren't willing to put their nicer cars on the line to teach someone to drive. I'm not whining about this - it just means that the only way I'm ever going to finally get a license is to go through a driver's ed course, because I don't have access to a vehicle to practice in. I looked into driver's ed courses last year and couldn't find one for under $400, so I said forget it.

It's really no problem for me to live in Seattle with no license, so it's clearly not a priority for me. But I do wish I had the ability to rent a car on the few occasiona I really need a vehicle, instead of either bugging my friends for their car AND their driving services or else hiring out a service for a ton of money (either a cab, or hiring someone to haul something away).

#14: I don't have a valid Washington license. My Massachusetts license expires next year. . .I haven't decided yet if I should bother to take the test for a Washington license yet, or just get an ID.

#17: Exactly. You get the point. It's not that I'm whining about not being a good driver. I don't drive, I've arranged my life to suit my non-driving status, therefore I don't care. The point is that driver's ed classes level the playing field and make the road safer than people just getting a license without getting any education. People need to learn how to drive well, and if your parents/grandparents/older friends aren't around to teach you like all these other people on the thread, how are you supposed to learn?

#18: Don't act like that analogy is pointing out flaws in my logic. Guess what's increased since home economics classes were cut out of the school curriculum? Obesity. If people knew how to cook healthy meals for themselves, maybe that wouldn't be such a problem. Same idea.

"Insurance companies charge more for teenage drivers who have not taken drivers ed. Therefor, there must be some statistical data that indicates that taking drivers ed reduces the likelihood of getting in an accident."

Or they're just conspiring with drivers' ed schools to make people pay for ridiculously expensive classes. What you're saying still may be true, but come on! Trusting insurance companies?

I usually tell people I didn't get my drivers license until I turned 40, but that's not strictly true. I had a license when I was 16 like everyone else I knew, but let it expire at 18. Twenty-two years later, it took about half an hour to pick up the basics again, and I passed both tests first go.

I agree that driving is mandatory in Seattle. I've lived carfree in New York, Boston, and even frigging San Jose, but couldn't hack it here.

Just to play devil's advocate: If they can't afford a one-time $500 cost for driver's ed, how on earth are they going to pay for car? Or car insurance, which for a new driver can add up to $500 pretty quickly. The last thing we need is more uninsured drivers on the road.

Your Massachusetts license isn't valid. You have 90 days to get a new license in your new state when you move. You're more than four years out of compliance with the law. You are driving without a license. If the wrong cop stops you and asks questions, or god forbid you have an accident, the question of whether to renew may be answered for you.

@9, 21 - you really need to read @25.

Seriously.

That or run for city council.

Fnarfs right-only one state, Hawaii, will let you drive with a valid out of state license.

This is the most ridiculous "I blame society" rant I have heard in a long time.

Off topic but, Whats with all the people from Mass here in Seattle? (Insert Seattle nativist rant here)..

First, driver ed classes in high schools teach you virtually nothing about actually driving. When I took it, back before electricity, you got 4 sessions actually on the road and in the car, and each session was 45 minutes split between 3 kids. So you got a grand total of 60 minutes' driving. Believe me, that does NOT teach you to drive.

Second, most of our public schools are so strapped for funds that they're using 20-40 year old textbooks, can't afford to repair roofs, are laying off staff, have 1 Windows 95 computer per 15 students, etc. What do you propose they cut in order to teach driver education? And since when is it the responsibility of the public schools to teach EVERYTHING?

Driving is a privilege, not a right. If you need to learn to drive, there are many avenues available to you - friends or relatives who'll let you drive their cars around parking lots, commercial driving courses (that was the route I took myself, in my 20s when I moved out of Seattle and actually needed a car for the first time), etc. We have enough trouble defending the right of every child to be taught to read without frittering away our time teaching them how to do the voluntary activities.

And I could not disagree more with those who say that you can't do without a car in Seattle. When I lived in the city - even when I worked outside of it - I never needed a car. I used my bike, my feet, or the bus to get anywhere. But when I moved to Snohomish County back in the early 80s, it was a 5-mile distance to the nearest public bus stop. I could do it fine in summer, but winters were a bitch. Two years of that, and I hired an instructor from a private driving school for a few sessions and got my license.

What else should be mandatory in schools? Cooking? Woodworking? Gardening? Where do we draw the line? Hell, I'd settle for bringing back mandatory civics classes, myself.

@21, my point is that driving -- like cooking -- is one of those basic skills that does not require $500 classes. Have a friend or relative teach you, for God's sakes -- the DoL doesn't require a licensed instructor or anything.

Of course, since you're not from around here, you may just be a natural bad driver. And since you work for the Stranger, I wonder if you even know any halfway decent drivers that could teach you. Then there's that whole XX chromosomal thing you've got going against you...

Ari, I'll give you driving lessons for a bottle of Maker's Mark. But you have to promise to get a WA license.

My high school drivers' ed class was a joke. The best driving teacher ever was my dad, who'd wake me up at 7 a.m. on Saturday mornings to drive around rural King County, the whole time yelling at me to "stay in the middle of the goddamn lane!" Good times.

I do understand where Ari's coming from on the free drivers' ed classes: to get a license before the age of 18, you have to take drivers' ed in the state of Washington. Lots of places in Washington don't have reliable public transit systems-- or reasonable walking distances between locations. Had I not gotten my license, and instead chosen to bike/walk to where I needed to go (besides school), it would have meant 10 miles to work, 6 miles to a friends', 3 miles to a store... and Maple Valley wasn't exactly sidewalk central. So yeah, drivers' ed can be a necessity at some high schools.

Somebody's never borrowing my car ever again.

I took Driver's Ed in high school in Arkansas in the mid-nineties, it was free, and we did a lot of driving with our uber-butch vice-principal. As I recall, the course was during the Summer, took two weeks, and we spent half the day watching videos and half the day taking turns driving the student car. I learned alot, strangely enough--plus, I got a big discount on my car insurance.

The main reason it should be free is that unlike gardening, woodworking or cooking (usually--watch out for the salmon mousse), bad driving can kill people.

Pretty much everyone is going to have to drive if they live outside the urban core of a city, so it's to everyone's benefit if we have some kind of structured system to teach people how, yeah?

Ari, you should take Fnarf up on his offer. Then make Public Intern go with you to get your new WA state license.

Even if you hardly ever drive, a valid license comes in real handy. What if you are the only sober person one night and need to drive friends home? Although, having seen you out a lot, I doubt this will be the case. BUT YOU NEVER KNOW!

And, Fnarf, my driver's ed films were AWESOME. Especially the one where the kids smoked reefer and got the munchies and the hot dogs they bought started talking to them. Then they died in a bloody car crash. The ketchup had been foreshadowing!

See what you are missing Ari? Fnarf is old, like me, and can tell you similar tales while he teaches you to drive.

Someone should put together a screening of old driver's ed films. I know I'd go. Especially if they got that Disney one with Goofy in it.

Ari - also, if you let your out of state license expire (or choose to get an ID), you won't be able to get a license in WA or any other state without retaking the written AND DRIVING portion of the test. Then should you choose to get your drivers license again down the road, it'll be a huge pain to do so.

i was in the same boat. my parents refused to help me practice driving, so i worked my ass off to save up the required $500. then i failed the test (sucked at parallel parking) and was heartbroken and didn't get my license until i was 19 and my first car until 21.

yet i feel the opposite. i don't wish that the school would've taught me how to drive. i wish they would've taught me how to ride a bicycle. i never learned when i was a kid. no one in my school biked. i've only just started learning how to get around by bike and wish i would've been doing it all my life. teaching kids how to drive also teaches them that driving is how adults get around.

I can tell Ari stories that will make her crash the car right then and there.

Heh... my Driver's ed class was in the Spring, three days a week after school for I can't remember how long, at least a month. We'd drive two of those days. My teacher was full of stories from when he had my older sister in his Driver's ed class... apparently she liked playing chicken with Semi Trucks.

But the class didn't really teach me anything other than the answers to the written test.

My dad took me out driving a grand total of twice, and both times he and I both ended up swearing, at other drivers, at the car, at each other. Heh... the second time he grabbed the steering wheel, and jerked it a direction I didn't want to go, so I put the damn thing in park and got out of the car.

The drivers in the road behind us were kind of irritated by that. *blush*

I walked home, and explained to my mother that I would not be driving with my father again. And from that point on, she taught me to drive.

Her method involved putting me in the driver's seat and telling me to go. I learned manual and automatic that way. God, I hate hills. But, there is a reason I can get a stick shift up Denny and onto Capitol Hill. ;)

Wow, all these fellow Massholes in Seattle, who knew? I grew up in Southbridge (*shudder*), took Driver's Ed at one of the two schools in town, and have no clue how much my parents paid for it. It couldn't have been much, though, because rumor had it our instructor was supplementing his income in a way very similar to Ari's.