Comments on A Vegetarian Writes...

Ahhhh, finally, a voice who says what I have been thinking for years but would never say. I have been vegetarian for over 20 years and respect that not everyone feels the same way. But, I get so irritated when holier than thou "eco" friendly folks spew their line while eating meat. Come on. It is like Al Gore and his mega-house. (Also, if you eat "only chicken and fish", you are not a vegetarian.)

I'd just as likely go vegetarian after that holier-than-thou screed as I'd join the Jehovah's Witnesses after reading The Watchtower...

A Vegetarian Writes...

I want people to change their habits to be more like me. I want people to live in a dichotomy of either being animal free and good or omnivorous and bad.

A Vegetarian...

For years The Stranger has taken the frat-boy humor attitude towards vegetarianism. I suppose that since feminists and gays are off limits, vegetarians are the safest target for that brand of "look I'm mean and callous and you're easily offended" comedy.

@3 - Didn't read the last paragraph, did you, Bellevue?

Vegetarians take heed, to spurn meat and dairy eaters from being eco friendly on this one issue will not do you any favors.

"I dont use a car"
"But you eat meat, you're out of the club"
"I buy organic and local"
"But you eat dairy, you're out of the club"
"I use solar power at my house"
"But you eat fish, you're out of the club"
"I recycle."
"But..."

You can't take your environmental message to the masses and then exclude people because they don't conform to every little detail of your ideal. It is the working definition of pretension to think that you are better than other people because they can't match up to your narrow definition of perfection.

Keep antagonizing those that arent high and mighty as you and see what results you get.

I guess it's cool you posted the guys letter, but this comment thread is just going to be a smug bitch fest about vegetarians, hippies, and vegan ho-bags.

As a vegetarian, I refuse to contribute any more fodder for the internet tough guys.

reduction in meat consumption = being a vegetarian.
caring about how the animal was treated is a non sequitar to how environmentally friendly meat production is. that is an plea to emotion.

Vegan ho-bags are fine by me if they can bring down any Republican congressmen.

"Keep antagonizing those that arent high and mighty as you and see what results you get."

Religion?

based on the global warming post yesterday, seems like the general consensus right now is we're all fucked no matter what we do. so at this point just keep doing what you're doing and don't reproduce or your offspring will hate you.

How about vegetarians who don't eat meat because they just don't like meat?

I don't understand why he goes on about the fact that being a vegatarian is more environmentally sustainable than being an omnivore. It seems to me that Lindy gets that. I interpreted the “environmental sustainability is a more precise goal than vegetarianism” statement to mean: if I were going to be a vegetarian it would be because it is more environmentally sustainable to be a vegatarian, not because I think that killing animals for food is wrong.

I'm a vegetarian entirely for environmental reasons. I don't do it out of concern for animal cruelty, though the fact that I don't contribute to that as much (I still eat dairy) is a bonus.

I'm not holier than thou. I have looked at ways to reduce my impact on the environment, and not eating meat is a really easy step for me to take, like using low-energy light bulbs and the yard waste bin.

I think it would be great if we ate less meat, but I'm not going to preach to you about it, but I'll tell you why I think it's a good choice.

#12 - that issue was resolved in the heated juliano's pizza thread yesterday, when it was determined that people who don't like meat have been brainwashed.

I have four pointy teeth.

I guess it goes without saying that I am without a doubt holier than thou, and thou, and thou, and all the rest of you all. But it is for so many more reasons than just my vegetarianism.

(btw: Gorillas have pointy teeth.)

people that dont like meat because they find it gross arent brainwashed asshat. many find it gross for reasons other than the actual texture and flavor, or because they disagree with the way the animals are treated they "discover" that they think it is gross.

I know a few people that find meat gross before they know how animals were slaughtered etc, and I know many more who felt that way afterwards.

I definitely understand and sympathize with the "being a vegetarian or vegan because killing/using animals for food is wrong" point of view. Though, like Lindy, I don't agree with that particular reason for vegetarianism (I do think that if you eat meat, it matters how you kill/use the animals which is why I'm opposed to meat from factory farms, etc.).

But... a few months ago I was at a bbq, with a friend of a friend who's vegan. She said something like, oh, I can't eat that dessert because it has honey in it and honey isn't vegan. I guess I'd never thought about whether honey was vegan or not, but this blew my mind. There are really people who are opposed to taking honey from bees? Is an insect really capable of being oppressed? It seemed... well, kind of ridiculous to me on many levels.

When I said holier than thou I meant the people who preach about how they are saving the world and think that everyone should be like them. People who compost and don't own a car and then eat meat and justify it as sustainable lamb. No one is perfect. We all do what we can. I don't eat meat, but I wear cotton. I am far from perfect. And, I regularly make fun of myself - especially for being such a pain in the ass about what food I eat. I never expect anyone to eat like I do and I don't expect them to tell me how to live - in a condescending way.

When I said holier than thou I meant the people who preach about how they are saving the world and think that everyone should be like them. People who compost and don't own a car and then eat meat and justify it as sustainable lamb. No one is perfect. We all do what we can. I don't eat meat, but I wear cotton. I am far from perfect. And, I regularly make fun of myself - especially for being such a pain in the ass about what food I eat. I never expect anyone to eat like I do and I don't expect them to tell me how to live - in a condescending way.

My little girl doesn't like vegetables--so there.

I don't eat meat, but I wear a leather belt. Who am I trying to kid?

I have no problems with vegans and vegetarians, I just can't fucking stand the smug sense of self satisfaction that frequently comes with the lifestyle. Not too long ago on olive a saw a young girl with the word VEGAN tattooed in large letters across her chest. Get a fucking grip lady.

Most vegetarian food is literally suicide food.

Think about it.

Grains - seeds from the plant killing itself to make more plants.

Fruit - basically seeds with a container designed to be eaten so that the animal that eats it spreads the seeds in a larger area.

Vegetables - roots and flowers normally designed to be eaten so that the seeds can propagate or the remaining roots are spread to better areas.

Can't you hear the lettuce crying as you murder it?

I don't think I've ever encountered a person that uses other environmentally friendly measures as an excuse to eat meat or dairy products.

I also don't recycle because my apartment for the last year stopped providing recycling services when they figured out the cost of the fine for having recyclables in your dumpster was actually less than the cost of recycling services, and that the garbage folks don't even fucking check. What a useless law that has turned out to be.

Seattle, the most eco-unfriendly home to eco smug-tards.

Speaking as a bleeding heart vegan hippie terrorist, the guy is obviously a selrighteous pipsqueak. But the basic point here - that if you really want to help Save The Environment, you shouldn't be funding the cow biz - is sound.

If animals don't want to be eaten, they should quit being so delicious.

Actually, animals can convert plant matter into food that we cannot use...alot of cattle fodder is low quality corn and silage (fermentad corn stalks...) that we could not convert into energy. They can also convert plant matter that we cannot access...think of wild fish that feed in the oceans. In colder climates pure vegatarianism would be worse for the environment than eating a mixed diet cos you have to truck/fly/barge in all the plants and vegtables you can't grow.

i would focus on the waste we produce first from meat and non-meat food

How do Seattle vegans get the recommended daily allowances of Vitamins A, D and B12? Would there be more vegans if the would-be persuaders could prove that an all-vegetable, no-ovo-lacto diet would provide the recommended daily allowances of vitamins primarily found in animal fats and meats? And that the diet would be cheaper? Are they ranting at tobacco growers also for not making enough land available for vegetable farming?

if you really want to save the planet, then do "x". "x" just happens to be the thing that you are already doing and don't miss.

for instance I dont drive and rarely take the bus. I think if everyone stopped driving and limited their trips to local buses, we'd be better off. but this isnt something I'd tout as "if you really want to save the planet..." solution because honestly, it's not only unfeasible, it also alienates a huge amount people.

I'm tired of statements that essentially "if you want to really help save the environment, come up with something that not everyone willingly will do."

However, just to piss everyone off i give you this: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=843_1193927344&p=1

I am holier than all of y'all, and I LIKE MEAT. Keep the sacrifices coming, please.

#17 Mr. Poe, Mr. Hodin is actually a joy when having a conversation. What's wrong with someone presenting their ideas/thoughts about a subject they feel passionate about?

mmmmmm, meat.

@26: Right. And this comment in the article from Ben Grossblatt (the Suicide Food blogger) shows that he hasn't thought everything through carefully:

"Write down that I don't think an orange wants to be eaten.", Grossblatt says.

Wrong. Oranges want to be eaten. They want their seeds to be carried around in the digestive tracts of animals, to be defecated out somewhere else, thus allowing orange plants to grow all over the place. This is true of most every fruit.

if you want to save the planet kill a shit-ton of chinese and indians and prevent other countries from gaining a first world standard of living and consumption.

oh, wait, you want to have a healthier environment and everyone to live like we do? You want everyone to have access to the same material wealth that we do even if we dropped 20% of our material consumption?

what I don't get is that vegetarians have this black white hard line approach.

Like having one tiny morsel of meat is bad, bad, bad.

Being a former Catholic I am familiar with hard line rules that the vast majority of people cheat on.

A little bit of cheating is okay.

If I drive an old subaru and only commute 2 miles a day that's better than driving a huge SUV 40 miles a day. But no one thinks I shouldn't drive my old subaru to a movie or to skiing or to go kayaking.

Similarly if I eat veggie 3x a week and small amounts of meat (like in sir fry or w pasta) 3x a week and once in a while go have a burger, what's the big deal.

Isn't 80% compliance okay?

Not with most veggies.

Reminds me of those old priests and nuns. EVERY impure thought is a sin....EVERY morsel of meat is a sin......

#19 - i know, dipshit. i'm the vegetarian who was accused of being brainwashed for saying i don't like meat in that thread yesterday. jeeezus...

if you don't want to be made an example of , then don't put out strawmen that look like you.

You know, I hate holier than thou vegetarians too. But what's even more annoying is when someone asks why I'm a vegetarian and after recieving an answer gives me some bullshit line like "What about the murder of helpless plants?"

Don't ask if you don't want to know. And I won't tell you why unless you ask.

The leaves of the Swiss Chard I cut for my stir fry screamed (In French) when I cut them off the stock in the garden. They suffered greatly for being raised in a tight little row. They suffered in unthinkable conditions having to grow next to the parsley and onions. I think it's high time we stopped the horror of raising vegetables in un-natural conditions. From now on if I can't find it growing in the woods or along the green belt I can only conclude it was raised in a tight space with no room to really feel the breeze. Stop in Inhuman treatment of row raised vegetables.

Vegetable rights and peace.

@ 12 - Amen to that.
And everyone else - as a vegetarian I don't care what other people eat - I wish they would try to be sustainable and not eat animals that were raised in cruel situations, but seriously, you want to eat tongue? Go for it. What I do find odd is that most of the time it's the meat eaters that are constantly telling me why I need to eat meat or why it's ok or how delicious it is and why I need to go "off the wagon" and eat meat again. My experience is that it's the meat eaters that are the preachy ones, and not the veggies (with the exception of vegans, they tend to preach).

"I am holier than all of y'all"
not all of us, Dad.

"and I LIKE MEAT"
yeah we know, but you're kinda an ass about the pork rinds and popcorn shrimp...I keep telling you they're damn tasty, but do YOU listen?

Keep the sacrifices coming, please."
yeah, easy for you to say. but you're never satisfied, are you, it's never good enough for you, do this, go to earth that... domineering prick...no wonder I'm in therapy.

...wow...

so much for having a sense of humor about silly shit that doesn't even fucking matter. why don't we talk about something less contentious now? let's see... the holocaust was a lie, jesus was gay, and... a woman's place is in the kitchen and/or bedroom, not the oval office. discuss.

I'm a vegetarian. I don't care what you eat, or don't. What does bother me is terms like VEG-aquarium (vegetarians who eat fish). You either don't eat animals (and fish are animals of a kind) or don't. You can't be partly pregnant, and fish is not a vegetable. Why does this bother me so much? I've been a vegetarian for twenty years and I'm tired of getting harassed by waiters because all the "vegetarians" they know eat fish. Sorry. Those people are not vegetarians.I don't care about them eating fish, I do care about them confusing everyone else.

RICKY WILLIAMS is a vegetarian. if a 275 pound football player can be a vegetarian, anybody can. plus, the animals that you eat will get their revenge on you by clogging your arteries and making you bald. Soooo, if you want to end up bald, fat, and infertile, eat meat....you are what you eat, and have you noticed that most of the people who hang out at those rib joints kinda look like pigs on two legs....mmm hmm...see.

Pitbulls!

p.s. I'm tired of everyone always saying vegetarians are "Holier than thou". Some of us preach, some don't, and I've gotten very many fundamentalist speeches on the glories of meat eating (including that tired old rant above--If God didn't want me to eat meat, why did he make animals so tasty?)

@50. I think you're onto something. Pitbull meat is the only meat people should be allowed to eat.

*Wow* does this subject bring out the 14 year old semi-literates. Is somebody crossposting from peta.org and arbys.com?

My prediction: 300+ posts, four or five of them interesting, a la "Dumbledore=gay"

.... is exactly the kind of person that antagonizes those that are different for a net negative effect. they try to list reasons in a negative context rather

if a 275 lbs player can do it, then he's awesome, but I still like ribs and fried chicken. I don't think any argument made from the point of health or nutrition, ethics etc, matters that much given how much info is available. I think it comes down to taste.

Ricky Williams is an idiot who can't stop smoking dope--even if it costs him millions of dollars.

people preach on meat, to be sure, but i think that is mostly in the personal, one on one type situation, not on the impersonal, "meat is murder, you're a bad person if you eat meat" scale that is a bit alienating.

pro meat rallies just don't happen and if they do it's called lunch or dinner.

"#19 - i know, dipshit. i'm the vegetarian who was accused of being brainwashed for saying i don't like meat in that thread yesterday. jeeezus..."

I was just messing with you about the brainwashing thing. Lighten up. I'm only a highschooler.

I think anyone with an opinion on meat, for or against, should be murdered.

ok so dude i read this thing on a blog the other day written by someone who knows the it guy whose brothers girlfriend interns at at daily kos and its like so fucked up see scientists in boston recently found out that MINERALS FEEL PAIN and minerals are in everything that we eat since most water sources contain minerals so like im totally going to give up consuming anything and anyone who consumes anything is like totally raping the karma of the universe and should be arrested

why should I care if an animal feels pain? I feel worse that people are hungry and feel stomach pains.

Time out for a deep fried Snickers bar.

Yet the acid test between meat and beet is: if I invite a vegetarian to dinner, I will make sure he/she is offered a tasty homemade vegetable main course. On the other hand, if I'm invited to a vegetarian's home, will they offer me a rasher of bacon or a meat loaf?

@49

WTF? Bald? What about Moby? I'd say he's bald and he's vegetarian. I think you're confusing fatness and baldness. But that doesn't surprise me coming, as it does, from a smug Capitol-Hiller. Besides why do you angry vegetarians care so much about changing our ways? If the meat is so bad for us, just wait around for us to die and you inherit the earth. Oops, I forgot, you lot aren't exactly all that meek.

Coming from the vegetarian. Only weggebobbles and fruit. Don't eat a beefsteak. If you do the eyes of that cow will pursue you through all eternity. They say it's healthier. Wind and watery though. Tried it. Keep you on the run all day. Bad as a bloater. Dreams all night. Why do they call that thing they gave me nutsteak? Nutarians. Fruitarians. To give you the idea you are eating rumpsteak. Absurd. Salty too. They cook in soda. Keep you sitting by the tap all night.

rhett, this is only an issue because of who the majority is and that the minority are in a camp that PROHIBITS food, not expands upon it. are vegetarians insensitive to meat eating wants? maybe, but I think they are more likely just thoughtless about that kind of thing. and a meat eater can always deal with it for a a few hours.

My penis is throbbing with joy. Over the thought of a delicious, bloody steak. Mmmmm....cum. Steak. Cum.

Thanks Beef :)

I guess it isn't particularly surprising to find that there almost as many extreme positions presented above as there are posts. I re-read my letter to see if it would rightfully be interpreted as holier than thou. I don't think so. I found the article full of contradictions, and I wanted to point them out.

As for perfection, I certainly don't consider myself perfect. I'm vegan now, although I haven't stopped conducting my research on sea urchin larvae (mainly related to environmental goals, but still questionable from an ethical perspective).

I definitely did not mean to give the impression that there is no sustainable way to be an omnivore. Instead, I think many omnivores want to think of their questionable choices as sustainable in order to assuage their guilt. Lindy West's article seems to be a notable example of this.

In any case, this is undeniable: people in the US on average eat WAY more meat than they need to. That would be a good place to start.

peace

Fuck off, Jason.

Peace.

"As for perfection, I certainly don't consider myself perfect. I'm vegan now, although I haven't stopped conducting my research on sea urchin larvae (mainly related to environmental goals, but still questionable from an ethical perspective)."

OMFG please tell me this is a joke. This is a joke right?

@67

Your letter reads holier-than-thou, and although you did not give the impression that there was no sustainable way to be an omnivore, you certainly gave the impression that what you believe is correct. You also give a major impression that you aren't familiar with Lindy's work.

Oh, And your reply reads holier-than-thou.

Dickhead.

@ 44: Right on....

@62: When I was vegan, I regularly made meat dishes for friends and family, always making a small vegan plate for myself. But I understand the comment, as most wouldnt do that...

69: not a joke. I'm writing a paper about ocean acidification effects (a consequence of climate change) on urchin larvae right now. If I had posted on that subject, I'm sure I would've raised less ire, but it probably wouldn't have been printed either.

70: Correct that I am not familiar with Lindy's work. She writes well, but I disagreed with her here.

When the editor wrote to tell me that they wanted to post my letter here, I thought that would be cool. I wrote it as a letter to the editor; I had actually never visited slog until today. I didn''t realize (though I guess maybe I should have) that personal attacks are so commonplace on this site.

57 - well i'm still playing with colorforms and learning the difference between my asshole and my elbow. sometimes sarcasm floats right over my head. especially when it is something people often say in earnest and isn't all that funny to begin with.

They're only commonplace if you're a tool.

abandon all hope, ye that enter the internets!

I didn''t realize (though I guess maybe I should have) that personal attacks are so commonplace on this site.

ahhh yes young Hodin, you have now seen the dark side. The farce is strong here on Slog. Be brave, and one day you will also achieve blessed vegan knighthood, I'd suggest not eating anything that casts a shadow.

@ 46 - Me damn it JC! I've told you before, don't discuss family business in public.

Jason, see my comment @13 -- I didn't interpret Lindy's comment about the environmental sustainability to mean that she saw her "questionable choices as sustainble". I think you may have mis-interpreted that aspect of the article, at least. I don't know for sure, obviously, but that was how I read it.

Thank you fellow sloggers for keeping me entertained for a good two hours with quite possibly the most ridiculous comment thread of all time. I love you all!

Hey Jason, hopefully you can one day come to grips with the horrific ethical quandary of sea urchin farming or what ever the fuck it is that you do.

Hasta la Pasta!

@39 - I couldn't agree more! Reducing your meat consumption to 90% below average seems like a perfectly good way to help out the environment, but I hear very few calls for this. It seems like you either have to be 100% vegetarian or you're a big fat slob who eats at McDonald's every day.

I realize there are a ton of different reasons to be vegetarian, but the reason of feeling bad for the animals ranks really low on my list. Exploiting poor people to pick your organic vegetables seems like a far more worthy candidate for your attention.

I think animal cruelty is bad, but being "cruel" to animals who are going to die prematurely anyway, so that people will enjoy their muscles for food? so what?

if being mean to a domesticated house pet with a name and emotional attachment was the same thing as being mean to an animal with a number tag and no emotional attachment there would be a valid point.

people that get upset by factory farms are just like the people that cry during sally struthers commercials; they have emotional balances that are misplaced and ineffective.

Bellevue - there are reasons to get upset about actory farms that have nothing to do with, "oh, the poor animals!" arguments. RFK Jr's Crimes Against Nature book has some good writing on the environmental impact of corporate factory farms...

We're the animals, maaaaannnn!!

Julie, the environmental factors are different than animal cruelty factors though. That is the point I am making and a distinction that many people can and do make.

77:
GOD, DAD, POPS....
You Say a lot of things, and not even half of it makes any sense, then you go off smiting and damning, like some spoled child. I swear, I'm always cleaning up your messes. It's not healthy, my therapist says you use omnipotence as a weapon, and that you've never matured. And you wonder why mom is so distant.
---talk to you later
baby jesus out

@84 - Well, we agree. That's the point I was making too. environmentalism and "oh the poor animals" are two entirely separate reasons to become a vegatarian. Lindy's comment that Jason seized made that same point as well -- she agrees with environmentalism as a reason, but not "oh the poor animals."

In the book "Portnoy's Complaint", by Philip Roth, the main character stands behind a highway billboard and masturbates with a large piece of beef liver. Is this against the vegan philosophy, since no meat is actually consumed? (Actually it is, later, but for the purposes of discussion, let's say he just throws it away afterwards).

Environmentalism was my original reason for cutting beef & chicken out of my diet. Since then, learning about the way factory farmed animals are treated sickened me. But for a long time I still ate shellfish (sea urchins, for example :). Veganism has been a bit of an experiment, and I'm not convinced I will continue indefinitely. In this way, I disagree with many of the posts above (e.g. 48) that want to draw a firm line between vegans and everyone else. Some people posting here (perhaps over polemically at times) have pointed out some of the contradictions inherent in taking an extreme hard line on veganism.

Julie: Lindy clearly made a dichotomous distinction between "vegetarianism" and "environmental sustainability." Maybe, for her, vegetarianism was shorthand for decisions made based upon animal cruelty issues, but that would be an oversimplification. I, therefore, still standby my point that vegetarian environmental sustainability is a more precise goal than simply environmental sustainability.

It seems to me that people are very prone to read what they want to read into what people say on this issue (seemingly more so than any old issue). I propose that this is because it touches a nerve; there is a sense of guilt that drives the extreme backlash. Just a hunch.

a sense of guilt? or a desire not to be pigeon-holed?

@87
I understand that perhaps you're comment was made in jest, but I'm going to answer it anyway, for fun.

vegans are not only concerned with the consumption of meat and diary, but also with the use of any and all animal products. Therefore, using meat to masturbate would not really fall into the vegan realm of acceptence.

Also I just thought I'd add that, as a vegan, I make a particular effort to assure my omni friends that their eating habits do not bother me. Preaching and attempting to make people feel guilty all the time will only alienate. I would love it if my friends/family would lessen their meat/dairy consumption, but I feel that by practicing veganism myself, I am enough of a reminder of the options they have open to them.

Veganism is a very drastic change for most people, and people who are not ready to make that kind of change in their lives should not be penalized for it.

@39 said it best.

The reality is that most so-called vegetarians are more what I call French Vegetarians.

They are primarily vegetarians who sometimes have some seafood or chicken, preferably local organic versions, but try to eat low on the food chain.

And have a steak maybe once a year. Nothing like a salad with steak strips on top!

Bellevue Ave (89):

In what way was your post #3 above not "pigeon-hole-ing" me?

The fact that you were also totally off base (see post #5) piles on the irony...

You don't even know what irony means.

Furthermore, your final paragraph is total bullshit because it says: reduce and change what you do if you actually believe this.

but you dont get to define what makes me eco friendly or not. you are setting up an us vs. them mentality.

Will (91):

The odd thing is that you say most "vegetarians" are only "primarily vegetarians," while post 39 says that 80% compliance is not OK with "most vegetarians."

I am not a statistician, but these two samplings of the general vegetarian population don't add up.

I don't know which one of you is correct, but whether I am in the majority or minority of "vegetarians," my personal belief is that 80% compliance is just dandy.

The thing that is instructive is that despite the fact that I said this pretty clearly in my letter, people still wanted to use this thread as a venting point against the so-called "hard-line" vegetarians, of which I am demonstrably not one. This is what I was getting at in my post #88 (Bellevue Ave notwithstanding).

Bellevue Ave (93):

If we accept the scientific consensus (i.e. that climate change is the primary environmental threat that we currently face as a species), then what makes one "eco-friendly" can be judged objectively based upon carbon footprint. The evidence on the carbon footprint of meat consumption is pretty clear.

Nevertheless, how one reduces ones carbon footprint is up to the individual; I did not pretend to "define what makes her" (or you, though I didn't write the letter to you) eco-friendly. I said reduction in meat consumption would be a worthwhile goal.

I stand by that.

The last line was asking her to question her assumptions. That's all.

Also, meat consumption is far more demanding on resources than vegetable consumption, as herbivorous animals like cows and pigs first have to be fed on land that could far more efficiently be used to produce vegetables for direct human consumption.

Spoken like someone who's never raised either animals or vegetables. The pig was the poor man's bank account. You fed it food scraps all year, and slaughtered it in the fall, making high energy density sausage, bacon, and ham out of stuff that was only going to waste.

For the ultimate in efficiency: Pigs fed on human waste are still a delicacy in Korea.

I concede Eat Locally's point (96) on pigs in the historical sense. Nevertheless,

1) this is not the way most pigs in the US are currently raised;
2) pigs are a major methane emitter, 20x more powerful a greenhouse gas than CO2.

That methane can be captured and used to generate electricity
via biogas, but this is also definitely not typical in the US.

On the larger point, I agree that small scale, local farming of meat in the way you describe can certainly be sustainable, and these may still be typical farming practices in many poorer countries in the world. Furthermore, what you describe is way more sustainable than the lifestyles vegans surviving on fruits shipped half way across the planet. Nevertheless, what you describe is not even close to typical of the pork most omnivores eat in the US.

meat is murder.

for 98:
I know, I Know its really serious...

I eat meat because Morrissey says not to eat meat.

@ 100;
OMG, me too!!
'cept its moby for me, not morrisey.

come over to my myspace and i'll bff u.

ems out.

Thanks Jason Hodin, well said.