It is inherently very healthy in a society for increases in taxes to be difficult, because higher taxes hurt growth and ultimatly result in a greater loss in revenue for the government. Let's hope that 960 passes and 4204 fails, which appears to be the case.
I don't get it. I thought Pat Boone was gay.
I'm still waiting for someone to concede that this election result proves everything I've ever said. But maybe that's too much to ask: some people can always think up some reason to stubbornly cling to views different than mine.
PS: Raindrop, that's hilarious. Supply side economics! Har.
Hey, Raindrop? You should visit Michigan to see how low taxes have worked wonders for the economy here and for state revenue. Oh wait. . .
Why do I bother voting again? I don't think I've ever voted for anything that won...except Gregoire, and I have no actual proof my vote was counted.
Take that Laffer curve nonsense elsewhere, raindrop.
Eyman's initiative won because there wasn't a sufficiently intense opposition - we needed more "No on I-960" ads. I think some people took Eyman's failure for granted.
I can't believe that Pat Boone is STILL ALIVE!
Eyman is such a douche. I'm honestly shocked that people still fall for his shit.
Well, now it's up to the Stranger, the Sierra Club, and everyone else who urged a "vote no" on Prop 1 because it spent too much on roads to tell us how we can get more light rail to avoid Seattle turning into LA.
I think the fact that Prop 1 went down so heavily is a terrible thing for the future of light rail. Pols will take a message away that they shouldn't/can't do anything brave and bold in the mass transit department. If it barely went down, I could see them thinking about trying to get some real progress going, but now they're scared shitless.
Here's comes Rossi, the anti-Infastructure crowd and no light rail vote until 2012 and beyond.
Good job Sierra Club! I'm sure we'll really make some serious impact on limiting green house gasses while we wait another 5-6 years to get anything done.
Yes, what @9 said. It will be fun to watch the perfectionist anti-Prop 1 crowd try and horribly fail to get their own ballot measure on, and by "fun", I mean "painful and annoying as all fuck". The probability of us ever having a functioning rail system here now rapidly approaches zero.
for anyone who is pro-light rail, you should call the Cascade chapter of the Sierra Club today and demand that use all their Washington Sate lobbying power to get us a light rail proposition as soon as possible. probably won't happen in '08, but we can hope for '09.
Contact information for James Irwin of the Sierra Club:
Call / Email your State Rep! Let them know that, if you were against prop 1 for the roads, you want the light rail and you want it ASAP. If they don't hear from you they'll listen to the Danny Westneats of the world, who's front page Times editorial today claims " Forget the big fixes and the megaprojects. Forget extending light rail, or any new freeways."
This is what we face if we don't speak up. And those "pro-rail / anti-prop 1" people have the biggest obligation to speak up so do it.
While driving in on the way to work today. Yes, I do drive on occasion. I happened to tune into the conservative radio station 770 or 570, one of the two. Anyways, they had Dino Rossi on and the first thing they asked him was "Are you going to force people out of their cars"
I wanted to say to them "Your cars will be pried out of your cold,bankrupt hands in time when you can't afford to drive them", but just listened instead. Unfortunately the Sierra Club helped these people out this time arouund.
I just started a blog. I guess this is what I do to deal with disappointing (ok, depressing) election days:
And it's true. I vow never to be an asshole again on Slog. It's become a numbing norm here, kinda like the Seattle Chicken Little chapter of YouTube commenters.
I really love commenters like COMTE, and I want to start posting things in his cool and collective manner from here on out. That whole deal is in my blog, as it the next issue:
The RTID/Sound Transit Proposition 1 for Election Day 2007 here in the tri-Puget counties failed. There are a myriad of reasons why people wanted to vote against it. However I underestimated the number of people who were on the fence leaning toward "No". I voted for it, knowing it was a flawed proposition. However, I wasn't confident we would have another pro-light rail initiative in the pipeline in the foreseeable future. I hope I'm wrong on that latter point.
That said, I'm starting to understand what might have pushed the votes more toward to "No" edge, and it comes down to one very simple word:
"Monorail" is a word here that has exhibited the sad and frustrating tale of the barely approved Monorail project by Seattle voters. I'm guessing many people in King, Pierce, and Snohomish counties saw Prop 1 as a bigger and uglier Monorail Part 2 waiting to happen. I disagree that this is necessarily the path such a plan would take. However, if someone argued to me this was the reason he or she voted against Prop 1, I wouldn't be able to argue with him or her.
Just like with the Skytrain in Vancouver, just like with MAX in Portland, Seattle is not going to be in love with light rail until they see it happen. Barring any unforeseen disasters, this will happen in 2009. I don't think we'll see any major push for light rail in Western Washington until 2009 at the soonest.
I feel the same way you feel Dan. This election sucked for me and I believe for most liberals (douche bag Sierra Club aside and Ron Sims is the biggest douche of all - fuck you Ron!).
If one strong message came out of this election it is anti tax.
And Burgess, he just sucks! Why in the hell did Heidi Wills ever have to take that stupid contribution? She'd be starting her third term in January if that had all gone differently and we would have been spared Della and now Burgess.
I can only hope 2008 will be a better election.
Oh, whine, whine, whine. Everybody and their kid sister (except those in the WA Legislature) knows the roads and transit proposal should never have been combined. It was done solely because pols thought they could push through the roads portion on the back of the light-rail proposal, and they blew it.
Voters are not adverse to light-rail. But foisting a proposed $18B package (which more realistically would have ballooned to over $40B by the time all the listed projects were completed) was just plain stupid on their part.
So, yes I do hope the Sierra Club gets some input this time around, because clearly they're more in-sync with the voters than those of you fair-weather transit supporters who bought into the bogus argument that it was "this or nothing", and were willing to throw tens of billions of dollars down a bottomless pit on the roads side, in order to get a transit package that should have been a separate vote all along.
Welcome to politics, Gregoire and Clinton and Chopp style. No bold leadership; packaging of the progressive (rail) with the regressive (roads) (you too, Ed Murray), or just bad solutions (viaduct); the failure to support Democratic candidates (Sherman), or even run them (vs. Hague). Where is our real leadership, instead of endless mushy middle, desperate-not-to-offend-anyone diddling?
Some positive news for transit elsewhere...Charlotte, NC resoundingly defeated a proposal to roll back their transit tax, which is paying for their yet-to-open light rail line.
Good luck getting any sort of transit proposal passed in 08 or 09. Housing bubble implosion will be in full swing, suburban homeowners will be underwater on their mortgages, and the anti-tax mood that sank 50% school levies and passed 960 will only get worse.
Ahem. We already started talking about the ST2.1 - and a critical bridges and road/highway REPAIR ballot issue.
Pierce County Exec ... look into that dark place you cannot go ... yes, that's me telling you to sod off.
good luck getting anything done on light rail until 2013 if Rossi wins... which he very well could. everyone forgets what a pathetic campainger Gregoire was last time.
oh, and @16 you can see how wise the "fair-weather" transit supporters of RTID were when 2008 turns to 2009 and on into the next decade and we still don't have a light rail package to vote on.
yes, were truly "fair-weather", weren't we...
Fuck am I depressed. The votes went pretty much exactly the opposite of what I wanted. On everything.
Yes, I will fight hard to help a transit initiative in 2008 and/or 2009. Can we spend the next couple of days discussing the meaning of the passage of the Eyeman initiative and the failure of the school initiative, and what it means for how we should proceed, rather than beating each other up about Prop 1?
We already started talking about the ST2.1 - and a critical bridges and road/highway REPAIR ballot issue.
and who do you mean when you say "we"?
I think everyone is taking this whole electon way too hard.
Prop 1 was a dud (A dud I voted for, but still a dud). It tried to do too much, and it tried to expand light rail before phase one was even underway. Wait until the first part of link gets underway: People will ooh and ahh, and we'll get more of it.
Eyeman: Who cares. It's unconstitutional, and will be thrown out. Even I know that.
Insurance: It's still passing, right? That's very good news. That alone is worth some champagne.
Schools: This one seriously sucks. But that's the west for you.
Rainy Day Fund: That one was stupid also, but it's a wash.
btw, the whole Eyeman/Schools/Rainy Day initiative fiascoes are symptoms of the larger problem, that no one will talk about: Our dipshit taxation scheme. We need an income tax, but no one is brave enough to say it.
The various candidates: We have no idea how lucky we are to have the candidates we have. Try running the "conservative" version of any of our candidates in some other parts of the country, and they'd be smeared as being dangerous liberals.
So lets build a new 520 on tolls, do a separate transit-only package that the greens will love, and get on with life. If the "cross-base" highway is really that important, let the pentagon build it.
Eyeman: Who cares. It's unconstitutional, and will be thrown out. Even I know that.
I hope you're right, but I wouldn't hang my hopes on that. It was a mistake for there to not be a stronger anti-960 movement.
As for the "larger problem" you mention ... yes, of course we need an income tax. Now, you try getting one through, in a state that couldn't even pass the "simple majority on school taxes" measure.
Wait, what Dan? Didn't your paper encourage people to vote no on Prop 1?
I guess I just don't feel that bad about Eyeman's east side redneck supporters cutting off their own gravy train from Seattle.
We can still find a way to tax ourselves to build the things we need, and they have made it that much harder for us to force libraries and fire departments on them paid for with our money. Sad but not that sad. When their little towns finally dry up and blow away, I'll laugh.
I love the days when there's good news from virginia...
Sez grznt, quoting Will in Seattle:
We already started talking about the ST2.1 - and a critical bridges and road/highway REPAIR ballot issue.and who do you mean when you say "we"?
WiS and his tapeworm, perhaps?To be fair, Will in Seattle has mentioned such ideas to me. Specificly, it happened as we were leaving a meeting of the 43rd District Dems. I hope that isn't what he's referring to, though, because a couple of minutes of bullshitting as we get into our cars isn't exactly a gathering of power brokers.
no kidding... seriously, because you and your buddies talk about it or the people that comment at the Slog or Horsesass or something discuss "ST2.1" like it's coming next year doesn't mean it is actually going to happen.
show me real proof that actual people in power are moving forward, or had really thought of a plan b, and i'll believe it.
truth is, everyone is now dumbfounded by the results and what it means - no roads? no rails? no taxes? no sales tax? etc...
i said it once, and i'll say it again. if you're pro-rail and anti-RTID, and you think you're better than the "fair-weather" transit supporters (ahem) who voted for RTID, the onus is on you to speak out in every way you can.
the pols don't know what to think after this, and we have to tell them what to think about this. no roads, more rail... now. (of course, i just prefered to have this all wrapped up this morning, with 50 miles of light rail in my future for certain...)
@22 - important people. you know, state, port, city, county people.
Like I'm going to tell you in public after you guys pull tactics on Stranger blogs like you did in the race - nuh uh.
Don't bring a knife to a gun fight.
@25, yes Dan's paper went against Prop 1.
Dan himself voted for Prop 1.
Dan, unlike a certain shmuck at the Seattle Times, didn't trump the official word on a major initiative or proposition even if he disagreed with the consensus, apparently.
You know what? Instead of an initiative allowing for simple majorities to pass school levies, we need an initiative requiring a super majority to pass initiatives. The results of most initiatives prove that the people can't be trusted with governance. We want more services. We want less taxes. And when the legislature fails to deliver both: whine, whine, whine, bitch, whine, bitch, bitch, whine.
and @28 - no, even if you're a friend, I'm talking electeds and their support networks. There's even a secret meeting in a week on the backup plan noone is supposed to admit always existed.
I do so tire of this heavy lifting. Now that I've helped bury Prop 1, I shall retire from this rough-and-tumble of political fisticuffs and allow others to "carry the ball" (metaphorically) from here.
Yep. A job well done, if I say so myself. Wouldn't want to strain myself. All work and no play, and all that you know?
If you would like to come to me for advice in my new elder statesman role, you may find me holding court at Elaine's. Love,
Sweet. Party time!
yes, elenchos. good job in shooting down a possible solution to a real problem and then not helping create a new possible solution!
you're a real hero. a true friend of mass transit if i ever saw one.
Solution? yeah, sure.
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