Comments on We're Number 23!!!
Median price of a house in Seattle is just over $500,000. The median wage in Seattle will buy a house that costs just under $300,000.
I think CNN's numbers are off.
"Isn’t it disappointing to find out you could’ve purchased, like, 30 houses in Memphis or Detroit for what you paid for your Belltown condo?"
Um. No.
yes, but it's memphis and DETROIT!?!? that would be like shipping me off to, oh i don't know, HELL?
@1-These are based off of last years data. I can't remember what the median house cost was last year. Obviously it's more now. I'll see if I can dig it up.
Holy crap, that's a $140,000 jump from the price in city # 22, Chicago.
@ 1, they probably are looking at the entire metro area of each city, not just the cities sans suburbs and exurbs. Still, all these studies always seem to lowball the results somehow, don't they?
The bottom of the chart says this only included sales within city boundaries. Which makes the comparison sort of interesting, but not very telling about the affordability of each area. Cutting out the suburbs will of course make hollow-core Detroit appear super cheap. And make small Seattle very expensive. All this chart tells us is that there is more land within the city limits of Chicago than within the city limits of Seattle.
Limited land plus being a nice place to live equals expensive homes. Fancy that.
@ 1, per 6 I stand corrected.
@ 7, then why is LA at the top?
I just got back from Memphis. Cool city. Invest now.
Has no one noticed yet that the list is not in order?
Here's the list in price order. We're #25.
1 Detroit, MI $75,219
2 Memphis, TN $79,000
3 Louisville, KY $92,485
4 Baltimore, MD $107,000
5 Columbus, OH $107,500
6 Indianapolis, IN $114,978
7 Philadelphia, PA $119,000
8 Milwaukee, WI $126,000
9 Fort Worth, TX $139,650
10 San Antonio, TX $143,640
11 Nashville-Davidson, TN $145,700
12 Charlotte, NC $149,500
13 Dallas, TX $162,260
14 Houston, TX $162,775
15 Jacksonville, FL $166,800
16 Atlanta, GA $178,500
17 Denver, CO $205,500
18 Austin, TX $210,373
19 Phoenix, AZ $237,000
20 Portland, OR $252,000
21 Chicago, IL $255,000
22 Las Vegas, NV $272,000
23 Boston, MA $382,000
24 Washington, DC $384,000
25 Seattle, WA $395,000
26 San Diego, CA $479,000
27 New York, NY $530,000
28 Los Angeles, CA $555,000
29 San Jose, CA $645,000
30 San Francisco, CA $765,000
Has no one noticed yet that the list is not in order?
Is there a rationale for the ordering on the website or is it just a screw-up?
"Has no one noticed yet that the list is not in order?
Is there a rationale for the ordering on the website or is it just a screw-up?"
The screwup is on Josh's part. The list is house price divided by median income.
I wish people understood math.
Fuck! I'm moving to Charleston!
A couple more points:
The price jump to Seattle from #24 Washington DC is $11K.
Los Angeles is third highest; San Fran takes the crown.
It's affordability, stupids.
10 - 14, I'm too lazy to dig into it further, but the top of the list reads, "In which cities do real-estate buyers see their incomes go the furthest?" So I'm guessing that the list is ordered that way based on the median income of each city; e.g., the median income in SF is probably higher than LA, so LA tops the list even though the median housing price is lower than SF.
@7 said "Limited land plus being a nice place to live equals expensive homes. Fancy that."
@8 said "@ 7, then why is LA at the top?"
Probably because LA is very dense, and a nice place to live. You're thinking of your image of LA, not the reality. But this survey is useless unless it uses CMSA (consolidated metropolitan statistical areas), and LA, which has other cities hollowed out of its middle like Lesotho out of South Africa, illustrates as much.
Big Sven, I wish people understood English well enough to read about what the chart means.
Median Sale Price as counted by the assessor: This means the median price of homes that actually sold in 2k6. Not what the median listing price is.
Even this year Im finding figures for median income that are like 409k for king county.
now anyone that complains about median being the measure of home prices misses the point of using median.
@ 17, I've been to LA, and no, it's not a nice place to live. But that's just my snarky opinion. San Diego, on the other hand, is much nicer, even if it's a GOP stronghold and goes up in flames every few years.
Memphis is pretty cool in a lot of ways, actually.
Bellevue Ave, you normally post all sorts of interesting stuff, so I'm going to resist the urge to write in asterisks and caps and swear words at you and others who are running a little slow today.
The article does indeed say "median home prices." However above that, in much larger letters, it says "In which cities do real-estate buyers see their incomes go the furthest." Incomes. Incomes. "Go the furthest."
Are you starting to see it now?
As to your statement that median incomes are $409,000 in King Co., well... hat's off to you sir. Seattle must be a lot more affluent than Issaquah.
@13 - my mom lives in Charleston.
I wouldn't recommend it, altho they do have some nearby surf and it is a college town.
WiS@22- Folly Beach rocks!
No sven, I got it about the affordability but I dont think the problem is with the math, at all. I think the problem is that people are looking at median LISTING PRICE, instead of median SALE PRICE, as an indicator of what the base affordability is before income is factored.
In fact that wasnt even directed at you to begin with, so I apologize if you thought it was.
Even at the source that was quoted for the 500k median price NWMLS
the res+condo was less than the 500k posted, the res only was less than 500k.
The common theme...that was the closing sale price.
another little bit. look at the % of closing or pending sales yoy. double digit drops, single digit appreciation in king county. housing prices are not very elastic and home owners, either reselling or new starts are not adjusting to market demand at a rate that most people want to see.
so they complain about "WHAT HOUSING MARKET SLUMP?" without realizing we had one of the best housing market booms backed on actual inflows of population to the area, and that housing prices arent adjusted on the spot due to market conditions.
and that's another thing that sticks in my craw (yes! I finally got to use the phrase); the home sellers not reducing their prices to meet market conditions of reduced credit qualified buyers. I understand why they dont but it's just increasing the pain they are suffering. Instead of selling for 5% less now, they are going to be selling for 5% over the next 2-3 years presenting an opportunity cost. This of course is based on the assumption a owner wants to sell. In the case of condos, they need to be much more aware of market conditions because they dont make money unless those condos do sell, where as a homeowner can sit it out and wait while still reaping the benefits of home ownership.
and k-town is the redheaded step-child, per usual, behind memphisto and nash-vegas.
"k-town?"
google it.
Bellevue Ave- thanks for the clarification.
As to why people don't sell at a loss, I think a lot of people *can't*. They're up to their armpits in home equity loans and don't have the money they would lose in the sale.
Ok, affordability. This bashed list is imperfect since the income info I found here seems to be grouped by metro area rather than city limits, but fwiw:
Median Median
Price Income Ratio City
01 $75,219 $66,700 1.13 Detroit, MI
02 $107,000 $75,800 1.41 Baltimore, MD
03 $79,000 $53,200 1.48 Memphis, TN
04 $92,485 $57,500 1.61 Louisville, KY
05 $119,000 $71,600 1.66 Philadelphia, PA
06 $107,500 $64,200 1.67 Columbus, OH
07 $114,978 $63,800 1.80 Indianapolis, IN
08 $126,000 $65,600 1.92 Milwaukee, WI
09 $139,650 $62,200 2.25 Fort Worth, TX
10 $145,700 $60,100 2.42 Nashville-Davidson, TN
11 $149,500 $60,200 2.48 Charlotte, NC
12 $162,260 $62,200 2.61 Dallas, TX
13 $178,500 $67,100 2.66 Atlanta, GA
14 $143,640 $53,700 2.67 San Antonio, TX
15 $166,800 $59,700 2.79 Jacksonville, FL
16 $162,775 $57,300 2.84 Houston, TX
17 $205,500 $71,400 2.88 Denver, CO
18 $210,373 $69,300 3.04 Austin, TX
19 $255,000 $69,800 3.65 Chicago, IL
20 $252,000 $63,800 3.95 Portland, OR
21 $237,000 $59,100 4.01 Phoenix, AZ
22 $384,000 $94,500 4.06 Washington, DC
23 $272,000 $60,100 4.53 Las Vegas, NV
24 $382,000 $80,500 4.75 Boston, MA
25 $395,000 $71,800 5.50 Seattle, WA
26 $645,000 $94,500 6.83 San Jose, CA
27 $479,000 $69,400 6.90 San Diego, CA
28 $530,000 $71,300 7.43 New York, NY
29 $555,000 $61,700 9.00 Los Angeles, CA
30 $765,000 $84,500 9.05 San Francisco, CA
The idiocy then is actually trying to list the house hoping there will be a sucker out there. When the pool of fish is smaller you wait until more breed. You're also paying a listing cost with a
[profit:listing fee per month x months
listed] ratio that gets worse each month you put a listing out there. If the decision is between selling for a loss and being fucked in one way vs. not selling and being fucked in almost the same way, i'd say go with not selling period and take your shit off the market.
the ratio is based on appreciating home prices which will happen but only if you can find a buyer and interest payments dont fuck you first.
@ 31, from a personal perspective it's very informative that my current home (Denver) and former (Seattle) have about the same median income but a difference of about $180,000 in the median house price.
Memphis: Home of Elvis, and the ancient Greeks.
It's not a surprise that it's cheaper to live where no one fucking wants to. I've known since day one that we pay a large cool tax for living in Seattle, but I think it's worth every fucking penny.
@34 Memphis was in Egypt. Are you talking about the Greeks who conquered Egypt?
@35, no, I was just quoting David Byrne. It's a lyric from the Talking Heads song "Cities".
Did I forget to mention, to mention Memphis?
Home of elvis and the ancient greeks?
What do I smell? I smell home cooking!
Its only the river, its only the river.
(okay... back on topic now... promise, cross my heart.)
When I saw this I thought "Fuck, the only place I can afford to buy my own home is Memphis and Detroit".
Baltimore is looking better all the time.
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