Comments on There May Not Be Any Homosexuals in Iran...

I look forward to the widespread discussion of this on AM right wing talk radio and Fox, and to an inevitable drumbeat of war with Saudi Arabia over this important issue.

Look on the bright side, if it were 7,001 lashes, they would die.

Hmmm...if I were sending out a prospectus to get people to invest in solar, I'd put that image on the front.

Shaming someone publicly for gay sex could only happen in some backwards Middle-Eastern Country. Thank god we're above all that.

Oh wait, NEVERMIND.

Speaking of lashings and public humiliation...

Judge said "No" to overturning Craig's guilty plea.

Some perspective on the scale of this punishment:

- Christ got 39 lashes (the maximum allowed under ancient Jewish law was 40).

- The maximum number of lashes a slave could recieve in Jamaica was 300, and there were only 4 recorded instances of the punishments that severe.

I wonder how many of those who get sentanced to Saudi mega-lashes actually survive the ordeal?

@4, yeah, getting 7,000 lashes is totally embarrassing.

the saudis don't give very hard lashes. its like 100 saudi lashes = 1 roman lash.

aw, why am i making a joke? what i mean is: FUCK SAUDI ARABIA. we ought to blow the fuck out of that place on the way out of iraq.

and dubai.

and qatar.

and doha.

etc., etc.

Peak Oil is already here, actually.

But, sadly, we are still in denial.

Just as we are over global warming being NOW, not LATER.

Homosexuality seems to be the last bastion of acceptable prejudice for the whole world. I wonder if the Saudi authorities thought they were showing enlightened leniancy by not hanging, stoning or beheading those poor men, as has been the case in Iran and Afghanistan.

@4 The question is: How could those men possibly have had sex in the park? I mean, really, who would do them?

Thanks Providence, that does help put such an archaic punishment in perspective.

That is horrifying.

the whips used to administer the lashes vary in those three examples, so it is not really a straight comparison.

but *any* lashes for this is unacceptable.

@10 How could these Saudis have had gay sex? I mean really, who would do that to them?

(See your flawed logic now...?)

To clarify my point, no I do not think publishing someone's name, address and photograph in the local newspaper is on the same level as 7000 lashings. The goal behind both incidents however, is the same- to humiliate gays and serve them up as an example to everyone else.

One of the men pictured in the link has already committed suicide- presumably because of the shame he has brought upon his family. If you'd like to label these men as cowards for their downlow sexual practices, why not act so callous across the board? These Saudis knew there was a place where they could have as much gay sex as they want (i.e. HERE)- yet they were "cowardly" and stayed in Saudi Arabia.

I think both of these stories are despicable... Just wanted to also shine some light on the homophobia still in existence here- not in anyway as a comparison.

@6 All 7,000 aren't administered at once. Since they haven't received a death sentence, they're allowed to recover nearly fully before the next set is administered. From what I've read, the most anyone can possibly handle is about 200 at a time, so that's a minimum of 35 sessions, with around a month in between. Therefore, they'll remain in jail for at least three years, either being tortured or recovering from torture the entire time.

gay elitist at #10, I'd say homosexuality isn't the "last bastion" of acceptable discrimination - if there exists such a thing, it'd be transgenderism (like the current debate about ENDA). Now that's something that it's a fair bet *doesn't* exist much in Saudi Arabia.

I wonder how this is justified vs. execution? Are they going to survive? It's so backwards it's hard to imagine.

@10 I know you listed the Johnson City men because it relates to punishment for being gay. My logic is not flawed, my compassion is limited. One must admit though, those men were breaking a local law that is not aimed at gay people only, even if it can be seen as a victimless crime. However, straight people are also arrested or ticketed when caught having sex in public. Yes, it doesn't happen as often, but then there is not a large straight sub-culture that cruises for semi-public sex. That must be one busy park for that many men to get caught in such a short time.

And ys, I know my comment about their looks was mean-spirited, but by no stretch of my imagination are those men doable unless you have a Deliverance fantasy.

Gay Elitist, search the Johnson City paper's archives and find me ONE instance of the paper publishing the pictures, addresses, and names of straight people caught having sex.

Good luck with that.

I also have limited pity for religious and political zealots who hide, but I still can't condone what this witch hunt has done to the countless innocent families involved. Can you imagine going to school after seeing your dad like this on the front page of the paper...?

@14 Gitai - I'm sure what you surmise is probably true. However, being whipped almost to death once a month for 3 years has to have some sort of cumulative affect. I still wonder how many of those poor bastards live to see the end of their torment.

You know, I am going to sound like a psyco warmonger so let me indulge please...... We have a massive nuclear arsonal; Let's fucking use them on Saudi Arabia's royal family and take out Mecca and Medina along with it.

BTW, where is the OUTRAGE from all of these "moderate" Muslums here in the US over this?

Okay, I will get off my soap box and go to the bathroom using my toilet paper with a picture of Mohammad on every square!!!

@10, 15:

the last bastion of acceptable predjudice in the world is hatred of HILLBILLIES.

even homos & trannies hate them.

Glass parking lot!

I forget, is it the left hand or the right hand ... hmmm, think I'll use both just to be sure.

Good thing we use hot soap and water every time we go around here.

@15 You'd be surprised about transgenderism in some places. In Iran for instance, it's seen as an illness, the cure for which is sex reassignment surgery. A transwoman received an audience with no less a figure than Ayatullah Ruhollah Khomeini, who gave her his blessing and advised her to take the chador and begin carrying out the religious obligations of women in Islam. Hijras (eunuchs) are a must have at any wedding in India, and one has even been elected to the Lok Sabha.

@18 Oh, no doubt. I imagine that they'll leave prison after their sentence is finished as crippled, broken men, probably looking like they came out of Bergen-Belsen. This is undoubtedly crueler than when Iran executed those poor teenage boys.

@15, you make a good point, let's make the last bastion "sexual minorities" then.

Unpaid Blogger, I really do understand your anger and frustration at the damage that a society that marginalizes sexual minorities does to innocent individuals. Many small-town newspapers post the names and pictures of men caught soliciting prostitutes or people who are charged with DUI's. It is an old act, vis: The Scarlet Letter. As far as straight people also being arrested and/or publically humiliated, I know of a couple right here in Seattle who were arrested at Madison Beach after midnight for skinny-dipping and were taken, stll naked, to the downtown precinct, where they were paraded, still naked, through the lobby and into the holding cells. That was quite publicized at the time. They did win a judgement against the city eventually. That was here, it happens everywhere. It is one of the inherent dangers of public sex or nudity. Straight people have also been known to commit suicide over humiliation for being caught in the act. Although if you are a tele-evangelist or a politician you get a new carreer instead.

I honor you for your compassion for these men and their families.

@20 I LOVE YOU!

@19 - As a "moderate" Muslim in the U.S., I'll grant you your lamentation about the lack of outrage at Saudi idiocy from other moderate Muslims (I happen to lament that as well). But when I re-read your post, it seemed as though you don't take so much issue with backward zealots as you do with Islam and Muslims themselves.

You'll win a lot more points and respect from your "progressive" Muslim counterparts if you'd refrain from the ass-wiping-with-Muhammad comments.

Not that it offends me or anything. I don't agree with those Muslims who got all up in arms over those Danish cartoons. But in all honesty, it just doesn't make you look any more enlightened than them.

By the way, you're right - you do sound like a "psycho warmonger," as you put it. And that's exactly why you and those backward, zealous Muslims deserve each other. We progressives put you in the same category, no matter what your religion or lack thereof.

And in case I didn't make it explicitly clear in my last post - i am OUTRAGED at not only this instance of Saudi barbarism, but basically every bit of barbarism and backwardsness that goes on in the Gulf states. Well, the Middle East as a whole, but the Gulf states win special ire because 1) they are unusually barbaric, and 2) they are ironically the U.S.'s best buddies in the region.

There is a disturbing trend growing in today's Muslim world, and that's Saudi Arabia's monopoly of what publicly defines Islam in the Muslim world. It wasn't always like that, folks. Plenty of moderate, peaceful Muslim cultures have flourished for centuries, way beyond the Middle East, and they weren't taking their cues from these losers. But today, combine ignorance, the wrong people in power, lightning-fast media and technology and propaganda money pouring in to bribe moderate public figures, and you've got yourself the cesspool of ignorance we see today.

Kind of like what's happening here in the States too, huh?

By the way, I was laughing my ass off when Ahmadinejad said there were no homosexuals in Iran. Every third Iranian guy I know is openly gay - to the point that I'm tempted to notice a disproportionate popularity. I ain't complaining - I love my gay friends!

@23

Word...I'm going to a talk tonight on the issue of transexuality in Iran. Transexuals...okay...homosexuals...well, they don't have those but that's beside the point, we all know how they're...um...not(?) treated over there? With all the jargon, it gets rather confusing... Anyway...here's the link if any are interested...

http://www.udel.edu/PR/NewsReleases/2008/oct/10-1-07/iran.html

So which Democrat running for POTUS will be the first to decry this injustice and commit to trade sanctions against Saudi Arabia???

Islam breeds idiot homophobes. It's hard wired into the religion. Judaism is open and accepting to gays. The Jerusalem pride parade boasted thousands of marchers, and on both sides of the street a cheering crowd welcomed gay men and women in celebration.

This is proof that Islam is a backwards religion and Judaism is the world's best religion.

I get so tired of Muslims chanting "Islam is a loving religion". It is NOT. It's misogynistic, homophobic and repressive in countless other ways to its followers.

I have an Iranian-American friend whose father came to the U.S. for college and never went home. Happily, my friend drinks beer and fornicates. God bless America!

Islam is a religion of hate. Christianity creates perverts.

Only Judaism is a religion of justice. Jews as a people are more loving, more generous, and more righteous that Muslims. That alone is proof that Judaism is better. Where's the Muslim Jon Stewart? Where's the Muslim New York Times? A religion of hate and ignorance like Islam cannot create beauty or art. Only Judaism creates brilliant thought and amazing performers like Jon Stewart and Sacha Baron Cohen whose Borat character is pretty much exactly how Muslims really are.

How progressive those Haredim are at the Jerusalem gay pride parade...

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0%2C7340%2CL-3319767%2C00.html
http://www.365gay.com/Newscon07/05/052907jerusalem.htm

You can't have it both ways, 31 and 33. If Islam breeds idiot homophobes, then Judiasm does as well: both Muslims and Jews must see some kind of affirmation for their bigotry in their respective religions. Or (more charitably), perhaps bigots are simply the same all over the world and will use whatever justification they can find for their bigotry, including their religion. Perhaps good people are equally the same all over the world, and use their religious affiliation positively.

But one thing is clear--Judiasm does not get some special exemption from ignorant and violent adherents.

31 & 33 - I'm a Muslim and happen to admire Judaism very much. In fact, I strongly feel that Muslims ought to learn a lot from Jewish accomplishments in culture, spirituality, unity, and social progressiveness. But when you say things like "Islam is a religion of hate and ignorance" and "Judaism is the world's best religion," it only causes those people to feel marginalized and angry, and possibly more sympathetic to the zealots out there who hate Jews (and no, it's not just Muslims - anyone will tell you that most cultures out there enjoy a healthy phenomenon of anti-Semitism and Jew-bashing).

These Muslims that say "Islam is the best religon" and these Jews that say "Judaism is the world's best religion" and these Christians who say "Jesus is the only way" - you're all the same.

And yes, Muslims have been disgustingly successful at manipulating the religion into a twisted, hostile culture, but #34 is right - that can really be done with any religion. Plenty of people out there have used religion throughout time to justify their own ignorant views, including violent homophobia. It's just that moderate Muslims out there like me have the misfortune of cringing at the disproportionate success of other Muslims at achieving this today, compared to other religions.

Then again, let's not forget that Islam is the "younger" of the other religions - Christianity and Judaism, for instance. Those other religions have had plenty of time to grow into the "civilized" state they're in today, but Christians have certainly had their bloodthirsty, foaming-at-the-mouth dark years too. I kind of think of Islam as having their turn at being in the throes of the "terrible twos" right now.

@30-35: Christianity, Judaism, and Islam as faiths do not breed homophobes, bigots, and perverts. Just because most bigots have brown hair does not mean brown hair is responsible for bigotry.
That said, fundamentalists and close-mindedness does breed bigotry and hate, and because Christianity and Islam are two of the world's biggest faiths they're also bound to have the biggest doses of idiots join. There is no defense in organized religion against morons, and words that are meant to foster love ("Let he who has no sin throw the first stone") can be twisted into words of hate ("Let us throw the stone against those who sin.")