But your "betters" don't want you to have them. Then they might have to put up with poor people in their playgrounds.

I was so wrong, and I realized it within months after the vote.

Seattle: a city-wannabe.

Revisionist history, Savage-style....

Nice to not have to go to Home Depot/Eagle/Fred Meyer

But in 1996, Allen--and the rest of us--never had a chance.

Can you name one 100 story inexpensive rental apartment building in the USA? In the world?

Would Seattle be better off with the Common's Park? Absolutely. Is what appears to be going down there as good or better? I think so... Has anyone been to that building across the street from Whole Foods? It's the coolest builing in Seattle!

The building has everything that SLU will be. Yes, there are luxury high rises, but they also show other things such as low income apartments, retirement homes, and REI!

It's not the commons, but I think it is a close second.

Evidence, sample 1: "$400 million playground"
Beyond the stupidity of inferring that this is one man's personal backyard, which is, in fact, really stupid (and indicative of the previously mentioned "never trust a rich guy" old Seattle douchebag mentality), the $400 million figure is just wrong. According to the Municipal League website, the plan called for $166 million, to be raised via the following:

* $50 million from raised property taxes (about $282 total over 5 years on a $250K home)

* $23 million in bonds, repaid out of the city fund

* $70 million from Allen's bank account

* $1.5 to $3.8 million in taxes from a newly-formed "Local Improvement District"

Subtracting Allen's chunk, the public was being asked to pitch in less than $100 million. For that, we would have gotten:

* A totally badass 42-acre park, $15.3 million for new boulevards, etc, and $28.1 million for new publicly-funded housing.

Evidence, sample 2: "...every available dollar from every available source of public funds..."

As you can see from the above, the public investment here comes nowhere close to matching that.

Do you enjoy making patently, proveably incorrect statements? Or are you just a big, fat liar?

I used to live in them.

Been there for decades.

N00b.

“He submitted his proposal on August 24, 1911 -- it described an ambitious set of improvements including a giant train station on the south shore of Lake Union, a Civic Center complex of government buildings in the recently leveled Denny Regrade, a rail transit line linking Seattle and Kirkland via a tunnel beneath Lake Washington, and possible acquisition of Mercer Island as a city park.”

http://www.historylink.org/essays/output.cfm?file_id=160

@13 - not in the USA. But just a few hours north of here in Vancouver BC. I used to live in them. Been there for decades. N00b.

You must count stories in metric.

If the goal is to have a city that is visually interesting - people coming to town (for instance, sports announcers) routinely say Seattle is the most beautiful city in the country. It doesn't seem we need to do much work in that regard.

As far as the Olympics, big deal? If a shithole like Atlanta can get an Olympics, anybody can. It's no badge of honor.

The marginal utility lost honestly doesn't seem that great. SLU is lost to the big wigs anyway.

And Mr. X accusing Dan of revisionist history is laughable. I wasn't a terribly strong supporter of the Commons, but I opposed the opponents. Precisely because without the Commons it was evident that the Cascade area was going to undergo hyper-development.

As a former employee of one of the last social service nonprofits that worked in that neighborhood (evicted last fall), I'm still pissed at the anti-commoners.

Allen's contribution was going to be $20 million in donated property - not $70 million. About $95 million in additional federal funds not cited in the Muni League figures were proposed to be used for a lid over Mercer Street (competing with other projects for the same funds, and the Mercer component would likely have absorbed state transportation funds that would have been better spent elsewhere, as well). There were also tens of millions of dollars in transportation funds that would have been necessary to replace Westlake Ave with substantial work on 9th and Terry Avenues, as well. Other low-income housing funds to the tune of $40-50 million not included in the article you cite were also going to be diverted to SLU, though I'm at work and don't have the specific documents at hand to fully flesh out the costs not included in the Muni League report you cite.

The proposed Commons was identified in the City of Seattle's 1995 six-year spending plan as a $414 million project - before the inevitable cost overruns - and the vast majority of it was to be publicly funded (and please note - saying that $70 million is going to come from private sources is a far thing from having the cash in hand).

If the Seattle Times and PI archives were readily available online for 1995/1996, you'd be able to easily see that the figures I cite were widely accepted in the mainstream media coverage at the time.

There's a reason opponents won two elections (or, actually, more like $400 million of them).

And Patrick, I'm here to cite the contrary opinions - I could easily post "me too's" about a lot (if not most) of the topics covered on Slog, but that would be dull, wouldn't it?

Commons folks were approached about that strategy, but they knew better, they couldn't be bothered with a "not invented here" idea.

The problem with their go it alone strategy is that voters from neighborhoods distant from downtown (a rather large majority) were simply not going to vote for what they viewed as an expensive park for a single neighborhood -- downtown.

Apparently 9 groups applied for funding. The Cascade Center, funded in three previous rounds, was no longer considered a priority. 7 of the 9 groups were funded. This was a shitty decision and I hope they find some way to correct it.

Well you Commons supporters have convinced me, let's all get out of this bullshit, stupid city. I mean they've been doing 180 wrong since the beginning - Skid Road what were they thinking didn't they know it would be the name of the worst part of town across the country? This place what have they ever done right? No music, no nothing. Let's leave I'll meet you guys - Portland Yes they know how to do it; Milwaukee You Bet they took down a viaduct; Austin Hey Food in Trucks; Vancouver North Now they have 200 story low cost housing.

As soon as you get where you're going let us know through a post, see ya.

The Mercer Maids have spent the last 140 years regretting that they ever came here.

No great public space at all. No great plaza, no central park.

2. no monorail & light rail is built on the street on MLK. Stupid, stupid.

4. the viaduct -- leaders like Godden and the mayor propose a $4 B tunnel it is rejected yet we will re-elect them anyway. Rasmussen refused to disclose how he was going to vote.
This is our leadership and this is how we just acceptit.

5. roads n transit -- leader Sims says vote no. Wow, he is lauded for his rave conscience. Where was he with his doubts and questions the last four years? And WTF is his plan now?

We will re-elect him anyway.

6. council passes a nightclub license law that says let's study it for one year then vote again. No balls to say "no."

7. "Leader" Burgess says he won't tell us who he voted for for president.

We will probably elect him anyway.

How much evidence do we need to conclude the obvious -- we in Seattle are just lame.

I think if you add a point #3, that will be the last bit of evidence we need.

Voting down parks? The mayor's the one who doesn't give a crap about providing parks according to the Comp Plan. Voters approve parks levies all the time.

Proposed tax-increment financing for the Commons (banned by voters statewide, twice) was another sticking point.

Have you read Jane Jacobs' "The Death and Life of Great American Cities"?

We're dysfunctional.
That's why most of us live here.

You ignore my shortcomings and I ignore yours.
It makes for a civil society and piss poor government.

We are as easily led as a roomful of cats.

Get over it. Seattle has always been this way.

Ummmmm....they were first. Way back in September. Hopefully they will follow up.

http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/cascade_peoples_center_to_close

Meanwhile, the only thing that makes sense is 100-story inexpensive residential rental apartment buildings surrounded by green space.

So you haven't read Death and Life of Great American Cities (and seem to be rather proud of your ignorance) given that it's a fairly short book you probably haven't read Robert Caro's The Power Broker which is much longer and which would really make your tiny little brain hurt.

If you want to see huge massive apartment buildings to to East Berlin. You can see what they call Honeckerhause there. 20 story tall apartment buildings that are almost a thousand feet long and uglier than shit. Newsflash Will: massive housing projects like you're advocating have been tried, and you know what Will, they've all sucked ass. Sure they made "sense" to some people, just like starting a war in Iraq and planning to bomb Iran makes "sense" to Dick Cheney, if you get my drift.

Just to pile on here, most modern residential high-rises are primarily luxury dwellings - though BC does have the power to force developers to incorporate a certain number of lower-income units. Try pulling that off in the good old property-rights happy US of A, let alone Washington State.

New mantra, please....

Robert Moses and the Modern City: The Transformation of New York (Hardcover)
by Hilary Ballon (Editor), Kenneth T. Jackson (Editor) 2007

They're trying to resurrect Moses' legacy from Caro's deadly hit.

Very interesting! It updates the evolving views of urban planning and despotic bureaucrats.

Timely.