Comments on Re: One for my Ladiez
Remember, posting a pic is one thing, but a cell-phone video with sound is illegal to post (or take) without the person who is recorded in this state.
Why? Upskirt videos.
"Question: If you show off your boobage, shouldn’t you expect some compliments?
Answer: Sure, expect them, but don’t accept them! Just because it happens doesn’t mean it’s okay. A compliment is not a compliment if it makes the recipient feel bad."
...just imagine I've said it, then, in the way that feels good.
Oh, no! Still complaining about sexual objectification! It's like Susie Bright never existed around here.
soon it will be illegal to speak to any western woman anywhere & anytime & no one in america will ever get laid again & there will be no more babies & humankind will consist of backwards ass cultures where women are chattel kept under wraps so no other men can rape them.
FIrst of all, I understand where this is coming from and do not endorse catcalls.
OTOH...
Is it OK to compliment a stranger's sexy attire if they wear it in public? If not, why not?
Yeah, I'm just letting 'em know I approve of how smoking hot they are, in those short skirts, and oooohhh those lowcut tops, and yeah *lick* those heels that give their chiseled rock hard legs that *ungh* little extra lift. I mean, is that so wrong?
Well, Pervy, as long as you keep your hands to yourself, you're committing no crime.
How do you know the difference between a catcall and a compliment?
If she is a member of a higher class than you, it's a catcall.
At least until the revolution comes. Then the people will rise up break free of bourgeois sexual oppression.
So like OMG you guys I am like SO SICK of HOW MUCH ATTENTION GUYS PAY TO ME I mean they spend all day drooling over my PERT BREASTS and SUPPLE ASS and my entire HOT BODY 'cuz y'know it IS hot and all the girls wish they had my HOT BODY but it's still like OMG SO ANNOYING that guys can't stop looking at me what a bunch of PERVS I mean OMG. Did I mention I was HOT?
I can't believe how much hostility there is in these comments! What is up with you guys? May you all be reborn as fathers of daughters, so that you can learn what it feels like to give a damn about the objectification of women. It's not a joke; it can be really frightening. How about showing some compassion? After all, WE'RE not the ones beating, raping and murdering YOU.
And we're not the ones who can't tell the difference between a wolf whistle and murder.
God, what I wouldn't give to force every single one of you guys to walk down Castro street in thong underwear. You wouldn't do it, right? Because you'd get lots of unwanted sexual attention and whether or not it resulted in MURDER (cough), you'd feel creeped out and objectified and gross. We're not our preaching against your right to free speech here. Instead of getting all offended and self-righteous, just try, for two damn seconds, to compassionately place yourself in the shoes of a female and think about whether or not you'd want people you don't know shouting comments about your dick size.
God, what I wouldn't give to force every single one of you guys to walk down Castro street in thong underwear. You wouldn't do it, right? Because you'd get lots of unwanted sexual attention and whether or not it resulted in MURDER (cough), you'd feel creeped out and objectified and gross. We're not our preaching against your right to free speech here. Instead of getting all offended and self-righteous, just try, for two damn seconds, to compassionately place yourself in the shoes of a female and think about whether or not you'd want people you don't know shouting comments about your dick size.
@13, no one's forcing you to walk around in thong underwear anywhere.
And if someone did shout about my dick size and I was murdered, I would probably recognize that it was the murderer who killed me and not the comment about my penile prowess.
Not that the overreaction on this thread necessarily negates the usefulness of the website. I think, however, that it will have limited appeal among those who don't already post there, and will thus have limited usefulness.
@13, no one's forcing you to walk around in thong underwear anywhere.
And if someone did shout about my dick size and I was murdered, I would probably recognize that it was the murderer who killed me and not the comment about my penile prowess.
Not that the overreaction on this thread necessarily negates the usefulness of the website. I think, however, that it will have limited appeal among those who don't already post there, and will thus have limited usefulness.
The point is that a male in thong underwear will draw the same amount of attention as a moderately attractive woman dressed conservatively. As I learned today while, in a full-length black coat, I bent over at the bus stop to retrieve my pass from my bag, and got my conservatively-dressed, invisible ass honked at.
First of all, what makes you think I haven't walked the Castro in a thong, and second...
wait I guess I just had the one point
A videotaped encounter with a Hollaback reader:
Oh. My. God. You were HONKED at? That pig!
Call the women in comfortable shoes. It's lynchin' time.
Am I the only female so far not to mind compliments/catcalls? What is particularly offensive about a man whistling at an attractive woman or saying that he likes what he sees? Naturally, if he becomes a physical nuisance or a danger, then yeah, there's a problem. But I don't think it's especially fair to single out guys for this behavior when it does no physical harm. Hell, I've seen ladies "harass" guys they pass on the street. Where are the complaints about that?
One can complain about being objectified, but if this is objectification, what's wrong with it? No one is being harmed here. How can one complain about a blame-the-victim mentality when, as far as I can tell, there is no victim?
While I am absolutely disgusted at the men in this comment (and the last comment thread) and tempted to stay quiet, I have to holler out in solidarity with the women who are braving the vitriol of these comments.
The point, not that any of the men commenting here will take a moment to consider it, is that women, no matter what we are wearing, are considered semi-public property by many men, in that they feel entitled to comment on us as sexual beings at any moment, any where, simply because we had the gall to walk out in public. That is what objectification is, and what it makes you FEEL is less than human, if you let it get to you. Most women take many years before they can not let it bother them, considering the harassment generally starts in middle school.
And we would like it if some men said that such objectification was wrong and fucked up. Yes, it is going to happen, but that doesn't mean we have to accept it like, and it doesn't mean you have to condone it like you are (yes, saying it doesn't matter or isn't worth talking about it condoning it). This is not treating us like delicate flowers who get the vapors if they hear a lewd comment, this is treating us as equal human beings who deserve basic respect.
Kay- Look at the blogs in question. The top entries are invariably about guys that went too far.
Construction worker catcalls is a cultural stereotype that is quaint to the point of being kinda acceptable, but even that can be too much sometimes. Go to http://hollabacknyc.blogspot.com/ and go to the entry called "and we never saw them again..."
I don't know if you're deaf or blind or live in a bubble, but women get really fucked-up treatment from dudes all the time. The fact that rapes happen is reason enough to get freaked out if you're a woman alone in a public place and some dude is getting in your personal space and talking about your sex organs. And the winning entries on this site are about public masturbators. Are you telling me a guy stroking his penis or waving his nuts at you is a perfectly acceptable thing because he didn't touch you?
My gf read the comments on this post before I did and was saying stuff like "These guys are dicks" and "No wonder women don't usually comment on the Slog." I was initially defending the slog regulars, figuring that some chodes came out of nowhere to gang up on a stray feminist comment, but then I read Fnarf and Lloyd and Max's shit and realized she was dead right.
I think you dudes are offended by stuff like this for the same reason whites in general are offended by people talking about racism: You feel like an accusation is being leveled at you personally, whether there is or not.
So you jump up and say "Boys will be boys" and the like. You think you're defending yourself, and maybe you are. But you are also defending the REAL targets of these blogs. Pieces of shit like (from the same website): "Potbellied Masturbator," "Perv in the Corner," and "Starbucks Stalker."
I try to tell my gf guys aren't all bad, but you're doing your damnedest to prove me wrong. STFU, dudes.
Years ago Camille Paglia went on (and on and on, unfortunately) about college girls whose response to date rape was to list the rapists' names on bathroom walls of shame. Rapists. Like, instead of calling the cops.
Yeah. Something wrong there, huh?
So if you have men masturbating, or exposing themselves, or threatening you, don't use your camera and run to you blog. That shit is against the law. Use the phone part of your phone and call the police. Standing up for yourself means taking action that counts, not passive aggressive junior high school games.
But if all they did was say some gross words, then maybe it would be fun to post their picture -- although if you really think these guys are dangerous, pointing a camera at them seems foolish.
The real question I have is why this kind of pig would be ashamed that his picture is on a blog?
Unfortunately, this crap starts when a girl is in her early teens, which is a traumatic a formative time. That's why so many women are defensive about it. And I pity the poor girls who now may run across some of the disgusting pedophilia that's peddled on the internet.
It just triggers an adrenaline/negative response and is a rude awakening to how young girls are treated.
So next time you see a middle aged woman wearing flannel pajamas and sneakers to the store, and probably 20 pounds overweight, that's me and that was how I handled it. Thanks, cat-callers, its because of you I'm an unattractive middle-aged loser!
That blog is the best.
Well said, exelizabeth.
My point about the beating, raping and murdering is to call your attention to what is going through a woman's head when a car full of guys hoots at her on a dark street. How can she know whether they are dangerous or not? I've gone way off my route to 'hide' just in case the car comes back. It SUCKS to have to be afraid, and it bothers me that so many of you don't seem to get it. This issue is not simply about women who don't know how to take a compliment!
Fnarf, did you even look at that website? The behaviour these women are reporting is really creepy and threatening! I'm sure you can see that. And yeah, a single wolf whistle is usually no big deal, but when it happens every time you pass that construction site on your way to work -- well, wouldn't you want to tell the guys to shut the hell up? It's not an unreasonable response!
Finally, despite all this blathering, I suspect you guys KNOW when a comment or action is insulting, and when it's not. After all, if all these guys ever did was say "Hey, you're beautiful," these websites wouldn't exist, would they?
To the ladies I am agreeing with (exel, ick, Irena especially), if you'll forgive the expression, Hollaaaaaa!
Actually, I've also had to hide/alter my route to avoid repeat drivebys by dudes yelling "faggot!," because you never know if next pass will involve guns or other forms of fun.
I'm not even gay, but I know when rednecks are keen to rape a dude they convince themselves he's asking for it first. They wouldn't want to feel gay or anything.
christopher -- Nice to hear from a guy who is clear-headed about this. Your post at #22 pretty much nails it.
Creepy shit. I can't say that I really understand what it feels like, having never been harassed that way myself, but that kind of behavior pisses me off. The most troubling thing, though, is that I have no idea what's to be done about it. But I suspect that web sites like Hollaback are not enough.
The point, not that any of the men commenting here will take a moment to consider it, is that women, no matter what we are wearing, are considered semi-public property by many men, in that they feel entitled to comment on us as sexual beings at any moment, any where, simply because we had the gall to walk out in public.
I couldn't have expressed the point any better.
Thank you for sticking up for us.
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