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Fucking brilliant. Good lookin' out Lindy!

Posted by Carollani | October 17, 2007 10:59 AM

"Yo bitch you fuck?!"

Posted by Mr. Poe | October 17, 2007 11:00 AM

Some people just don't know how to take a compliment. If I were a wuh-wuh-wuh-woman, I'd prefer "I'mma be BOOBATIZED til mornin'!" to "holy shit, refugees from the hippopotamus factory" or "more cushion for the pushin'". And no, there is no middle ground.

Posted by Fyodor Zulinski | October 17, 2007 11:02 AM

Nothing is stopping the chicks from yelling out, "I got a quarter, bring your ass over here" or "Yo, FedEx, deliver that delicious package over here."

Posted by monkey | October 17, 2007 11:05 AM

I am a genius.

Posted by Meagan | October 17, 2007 11:11 AM

I'm so glad something like this exists. Thanks for sharing this gem!

Just the other day, some guy at a bus stop did this at me: "Psh psh psh." Now I don't know what's worse: having a man loudly comment on my body, or having a man treat me like a stray animal.

Posted by Kb | October 17, 2007 11:19 AM

hollaback pacific northwest seems to have slowed down, but that's another good place to vent.

Posted by Laurel | October 17, 2007 11:26 AM

Pee-hole? That guy needs some serious lessons in anatomy. Has he actually fucked a woman?

Posted by keshmeshi | October 17, 2007 11:28 AM

A few years ago in Olympia, I was hanging out with my friend Sue, who indeed has larger than average breasts. We were in a bar, and Eric Estrada was there (yes, Ponch from CHiPs). Eric came over to Sue and said, "Daaaaaamn girl, you're big in all the right places!" Sue, to her credit, thought it was hilarious, but she did dress him down a bit for not introducing himself before commenting on her anatomy.

Then I bought him a beer and we took this photograph. Then I framed it and gave it to my dad for Xmas. The end.

Posted by Matt Fuckin' Hickey | October 17, 2007 11:38 AM

What you need to do is, every time a man hollers at you, you should hit him with a brick. That'll teach him.

Posted by Greg | October 17, 2007 11:41 AM

This is why I always attempt to approach women in a more dignified manner. So that, for example, if I see an attractive woman in the grocery store, I will not ask to see her breasts, or "titties" as the hoi polloi would have it, nor will I ask for a "piece" of "that". Instead, I will be content to surreptitiously take a picture of her ass with my cell phone, and post in on my blog. But the ass picture will be surrounded by comments of praise, of course, as I am a man of class.

Posted by tsm | October 17, 2007 11:43 AM

hmmm.... and from cars and trucks i've heard such well-thought out quips as:

"hey faggot!"


"have some eggs."

Posted by infrequent | October 17, 2007 11:48 AM

oops! sorry -- i'm not a lady. i got too wrapped up in appreciating the linguistic triumphs of these distinguished modern men.

Posted by infrequent | October 17, 2007 11:59 AM

A very timely piece, considering this posting from craigslist last week, and we think we know the person who wrote it and the unsuspecting lady he is writing about. Disgusting.

Posted by m | October 17, 2007 12:00 PM

I will say that I can imagine it gets really old really fast, and that it can be sometimes be downright threatening.

However, the male experience is much different. I can't tell you how pleased I would be if someone holla-ed at me.

Posted by Mike in MO | October 17, 2007 12:04 PM

aren't there 2 sides to these situations ladies? If the guy is "cute" then his "holler" is "funny, hilarious and flirtatious"; however, if the guy is a bum, ugly, whathaveyou...then the holler is offensive.

Posted by unsilent majority | October 17, 2007 12:05 PM

I would love to meet any man on this entire planet that actually got a girl by yelling something like " there must be a lot of pussy behind that ass."
I never have understood the goal behind yelling something like that.
Any girl with a brain in her head just wants to pull a gun out and shoot the guy right there and leave in peace.She knows the world is a better place without men that yell derogatory comments at women.

Posted by mj | October 17, 2007 12:06 PM

you're wrong, silent majority... that's not how it works. ladies would prefer even attractive men view us as humans instead of body parts. that craigslist posting makes me want to scrub with lye. blech.

Posted by laurel | October 17, 2007 12:09 PM

@15 - You can get hollad at on bway. It's a strange experience. Almost as strange as being in a club and feeling some dude rub his dick on your ass from behind. I've experienced both, and it went a long way to giving me an idea of what it would be like to get that all the time as a chick.

@17 - i inexplicably ended up at finn macs on monday night, and two newly-minted 21 year old hoochie bitches had signs pinned to their skanky dresses that read "i'm 21, someone fuck me".

So the guy you seek was probably at that bar.

Posted by ask a straight dude | October 17, 2007 12:15 PM

@16 If the guy is cute and yelling something stupid it just goes to show he may be cute but he is a brain dead idiot so who cares?
Any girl that would melt at some cute guy who yelled some stupid thing is either dumb, insecure or dying to have some domineering macho guy in her life.

Since I was a young girl I have always detested it when a guy yelled out a car window or tried to pick me up. It has always freaked me out and I find it very degrading.I do have a few girl friends and a sister who would get a thrill out of it and they all ended up marrying abusive creeps!
But that is just me : )

Posted by mj | October 17, 2007 12:17 PM

@14,18 ... look, I'm a guy, granted, but I still see a very significant difference between a guy who anonymously confesses to an attraction to an unnamed woman on an Internet forum, and a guy who screams "I'd like to tap that ass!" at you from a moving car. When exactly did it become disgusting to even desire a woman without acting on it in any way?

Posted by tsm | October 17, 2007 12:18 PM

@19 I know I'm old and the world is different place.
I have several college age guys that work for us and they are aggressively hit on all the time. They get nude photos sent to them the time on their cell phones with some rather explicit offers.

Girls are just as aggressive today so you are totally right!

Posted by mj | October 17, 2007 12:22 PM

a couple thoughts:
men don't complain when a toilet seat is down, nor when they get hollered at, though I have never seen a man hollered at by a woman. 2nd, the only guys i have noticed who make lewd comments to women are losers who have hit rock bottom, so what do they have to lose?

Posted by mongo like slog | October 17, 2007 12:23 PM

@21 there was something kinda creepy about that craigslist post. anonymously confession of attraction? okay. weirdly descriptive stalky-like post... not okey.

Posted by infrequent | October 17, 2007 12:24 PM

@23- That's true! My wife (who gets hit on by homeless guys a lot) always says me and a bunch of homeless guys are the only ones who find her attractive. I hope that doesnt mean Im a loser, though. :(

Posted by bro johnson | October 17, 2007 12:25 PM

i do, however, see a difference between hollering from a truck, and saying to a stranger stopped with you at a crosswalk "hello, i just wanted to say you look very nice."

Posted by infrequent | October 17, 2007 12:26 PM


Go to The Cuff. You'll learn real fast what the ladies go through.

Oh, but you have to be under the age of 25 to get the FA.

Posted by Mr. Poe | October 17, 2007 12:31 PM

@26 If a guy at a bus stop looked at me and politely said that I looked very nice I would think it was very sweet.

Posted by mj | October 17, 2007 12:36 PM

@24 - maybe, but who's harmed by his thoughts? Maybe he gives her creepy looks and tries to chat her up IRL - I don't know. But I see no problem with him fantasizing about the librarian so long as he doesn't bother her with it in any particular way.

Posted by tsm | October 17, 2007 12:42 PM

@ 19 & 27: I'd love to think that I'd get the holla treatment, but I don't think I'm hot enough.

Posted by Mike in MO | October 17, 2007 12:44 PM

In college, when I was younger I got hollaed at by a girl driving by. Then, when I moved to Seattle and walked around Broadway any number of fags would make similar comments. I then realized I could fuck anything that I wanted. I win.

Posted by fucking hot | October 17, 2007 12:58 PM

No. I don't want no scrub. A scrub is a guy that can't get no love from me, hangin out the passenger's side of his best friend's ride, tryin to holler at me.

Posted by Katelyn | October 17, 2007 1:00 PM

i like mj.

(i hope that's okay.)

Posted by infrequent | October 17, 2007 1:03 PM


Well, if you look anything like Anderson Cooper, you'll get a holla from me.

Posted by Mr. Poe | October 17, 2007 1:09 PM

@33 Too Sweet!

Posted by mj | October 17, 2007 1:19 PM

All I know is, ladies are precious, delicate flowers, and princesses, and no one has the right to say anything to them ever, because it's just INDECENT.

Pssht. If you don't like the holler, don't go outside.

Posted by Fnarf | October 17, 2007 1:20 PM

Why guys 'holler' at girls? Power, kinda like the peon who makes you run like hell for bullshit so he can feel more powerful and worth something.

Also some are misguided about how exactly to do step 2 of the below.
1. Realise need to fuck.
2. Convince girl to fuck.
3. Fuck.
Education would be helpful in the form of bricks, perhaps with notes stuck to them?

Posted by arandomdude | October 17, 2007 1:32 PM

Fnarf, what's up with your poo-hole?

Posted by Carollani | October 17, 2007 1:37 PM

Meh. It's easy up here in Canada. A guy hollas at you, you give him a wave, he screeches to a halt to get your digits, you walk up and key his car.

I've also got a water pistol full of housepaint.

Threats and reasoning do nothing to get through to this type of bozo - you gotta go for his ride.

Posted by Natalie | October 17, 2007 1:37 PM

Also, I thought the Craigslist post was cute. I flagged it as a best of Craigslist.

Posted by Natalie | October 17, 2007 1:38 PM

Oh, and further to the Craigslist post; anyone who thinks a sentiment like that is just creepy and nothing else has obviously never dated an engineer.

Posted by Natalie | October 17, 2007 1:39 PM

@ 34: the only similarity I have to Anderson is that we're both from the same species.

Posted by Mike in MO | October 17, 2007 1:50 PM

true, i am not an engineer. but using the phrase "ample bosom" is a little off-putting. not only that, he spends his longest paragraph talking about said ample bosom. including commenting on how it's not a big deal to him. the wording sounds more like an imitation of a penthouse forum article (yes, i was in jr high school at one time) than a sincere confession of a crush.

furthermore, it sounds like it is a big deal to him. but he doesn't want it to seem like it is, so he has to say it's not -- without sounding like he doesn't actually like them altogether.

it gave me a headache.

it wasn't cute. cute is: i've seen you at the library often, and i think i've developed a crush. why else do you think i keep thinking up questions about the antiquated dewey decimal system to ask you?

Posted by infrequent | October 17, 2007 1:56 PM

Fnarf = Butt Head...
It's a mystery as to why I like him so much but I do!

Posted by mj | October 17, 2007 1:58 PM

Lindo, I have the photo of handlebar moustache trying to feel you up on the club's couch that night on my FRIDGE. He looks positively gleeful! Gleeful and grody.

Posted by Char | October 17, 2007 2:14 PM

I have been harassed by attractive men before. To me, it was like biting into a beautiful-looking piece of fruit to discover that it's brown and mushy inside. Not appealing.

It does frustrate me beyond all reason when other women respond positively to that bullshit. But, as with many other things, there's not a damn thing I can do about it, except make sure that I don't reward those knuckledraggers with a smile or my phone number.

Posted by keshmeshi | October 17, 2007 2:18 PM

i agree with fnarf mostly. in fact, his post sums up my initial reaction. there will be unexpected advances made -- a few welcome, most not. a common reaction for those that are not welcome is the desire to throw a brick. but that's usually just desire, not actual throwing. so, in effect, the ladiez do just deal with it. and maybe complain some later.

some, however, also put off a vibe that seems to suggest that women are too delicate -- that any holla should be illegal as if an act of violence. poor taste yes. illegal? i'm not so sure.

but there is another issue. the overt sexual nature of some of these hollas. because of this, the recipient might fear for thier safety. if you are walking alone, and someone else in a vehicle shouts something inappropriate, it's not just rude and/or insulting; it can actually cause fear. i think of the stories i've heard of guys following women for a while, or circling around just staring. that sort of behavior is a violation of a person's well-beling. the frequency in which such actions (not just words) occur makes it more of a problem.

since most guys (at least most guys i know) are not complete assholes, they don't holla out obviously inappropriate things. this means their experience with such situations is very limited, and this makes it hard to understand why it is so upsetting.

in addition, as k mentions above, some women actually respond positively to these things. though i'm not sure where k draws the line between appropriate and inappropriate...

just out of curiousity, what sort of act/comment would you consider harassment in it's least form (just over the line). "yo let's fuck." over the line. "there must some pussy under that ass." over the line. but both are way over the line.

Posted by infrequent | October 17, 2007 2:30 PM

Don't agree with Fnarf on this infrequent.
Fnarf may be one of the smartest people I know but if he wasn't joking which I most certainly hope he was he is not to be agreed with on this subject!

Posted by mj | October 17, 2007 2:46 PM

I think posting it in a blog is just about enough as far as resistance goes (beyond a smart comeback)O. Anything more and I'd be with fnarf on this one.

Posted by Fyodor Zulinski | October 17, 2007 3:17 PM

"O"? Wtf?

and also PS I am Not talking about preludes to rape.

Posted by FZ | October 17, 2007 3:18 PM


It differs according to the woman. Some are offended by a simple "Hello beautiful." Others, such as myself, reserve indignation for eyeball rape, being followed on foot/by car, creepy staring, obviously insulting gestures and sexualized comments.

Frankly, I think women need to pick our battles and beat down (not literally) the obviously creepy and offensive jerks out there. I hope sites like Hollaback will encourage women to recognize real harassment and stick up for themselves when it happens.

And I'm fairly certain that Fnarf is kidding. He's taken a stand against public harassers on Slog before.

Posted by keshmeshi | October 17, 2007 3:26 PM

fnarf iz in ur 'hood hollerin' at ur ladiez

Posted by ask a straight dude | October 17, 2007 3:56 PM

Infrequent, to respond to your question @47, I consider any holla from a car to be over the line and harassment. Guys do it as a power trip, not because they think they will actually get laid (at least I hope they don't honestly think they will). It's because they think they have a right to objectify and humiliate you.

Now, the line is a bit more unclear when you are interact face to face. But here's a rule of thumb: if you would like to hit on a girl, don't start with her appearance. That too often is the first step down the road to Creepsterville, and it will set off red flags for any girl who's worth dating. Instead, introduce yourself, ask about her about herself. If she seems receptive and friendly, continue talking. If you have a connection, maybe she will hook up with you.

Posted by exelizabeth | October 17, 2007 4:01 PM

The world is full of all kinds of people. Some of those people are a little crude. Cat calling at the pretty ladiez is not classy behavior but it's not the same thing as rape, either.

Seriously, sexuality exists in the world. Some people are going to appreciate your fine self in ways that would raise hairs in the Blue Nose Club, but I don't believe it's harmful. It's just guys being guys.

Any woman who hasn't learned how to shut them up with a smart remark -- surprisingly easy to do -- isn't ready to play in public. It's like wandering out into the street.

The idea that women should at all times be treated with delicacy and concern is ten times more sexist than the idea that a delicious booty is a thing to behold. The idea that we've all somehow agreed to pretend we never even look is freshman women's studies baloney.

And if you can't tell the difference between a sexy comment in the street and sexual harrassment, or sexual violence, you're crazy.

Posted by Fnarf | October 17, 2007 4:02 PM


This is ok to you?

“What’s up with your pee-hole, baaaaaby?”

Because it's not ok to me. Any jackass who says that, homeless or no, deserves to be smacked down. Yes, some women are oversensitive, but most aren't. Most have to put up with creepy bullshit a lot. And who's socialized not to fight back? Women, that's who.

Posted by keshmeshi | October 17, 2007 4:18 PM

Wow, Fnarf. I started getting hollered at when I was about 12. It was scary and humiliating. You're saying my 12 year old self should have been ready to shut down greasy dudes in big trucks with a sassy comment? Whatever. I guess I forgot my burqa so I was asking for it.

I suggest rather that men who think they have a right to holla at women to humiliate them are the ones who are not capable of keeping their "appreciation" of my budunkadunk to themselves are the ones who are not ready to play in public. Why is it up to women to put up with crappy behavior? "Boys will be boys" is the most pansy-assed, buck-passing excuse possible. Yeah, asshole behavior is going to exist, that doesn't mean we should just shut up and take it.

But Fnarf raises a good point as he demonstrates that many men will not even go so far as to condemn shameful behavior by their own gender. Ladies, we SHOULD be ready with a snappy come-back. I find that ones about penis-size to be most effective. For instance: "I've heard about you! Cock the size of a golf pencil, right?"

Posted by exelizabeth | October 17, 2007 4:20 PM

Keshmeshi, only some women are socialized to not fight back. A lot of women can and do handle themselves quite well in a verbal exchange. Smart, tough women. Learn from them.

Again: you are not a princess. You do not have the right or the expectation that everybody on the street is going to hold the door for you and carefully avoid looking at your precious boobies (far more valuable than emeralds and rubies!) and not say stupid, ridiculous things.

No, "what's up with your pee-hole" is not OK. It's gross and retarded. It's asking for a smackdown. But it's not a political crime.

When women demand special treatment, namely the political right to be treated with verbal respect in all public situations, it reinforces the idea that they are special beings, weak, delicate beings, who can be irreparably harmed by offensive speech -- soiled, even. Gracious!

Assuming that appreciating your badonkadonk is meant as harrassment and humiliation is usually wrong, anyways. Misguided? Stoopid? Indicative of poor class attainment? Sure. Criminal? No.

If you can't learn this lesson, you are always, always, always going to be unhappy sharing the public sphere with these nimrods. Smart women are too busy being fabulous to bother wasting unhappiness on losers.

Posted by Fnarf | October 17, 2007 5:12 PM

Sorry, Fnarf, but what do you think blogs like this are, if not great, big, assertive, smart, tough, "fuck you"s to all the hollerers who have ever hollered?

Is it threatening, creepy, and generally in poor taste for a total stranger to comment on my "pee-hole" or tell me about his "hard-on"? YES. IT IS NOT OKAY. Do I think it should be illegal? Obviously not. That's stupid. And do I scream princess rape if a hobo in Belltown tells me that I "look very nice tonight, young lady"? OF COURSE I DON'T. (Thank you, genteel hobo!)

Demanding respect is not asking for "special treatment." Men are welcome to demand verbal respect as well, but they don't have to, because women don't go around screaming at men about our engorged vaginas. And raping them. And stuff.

Being hollered at is disgusting and often scary. If you do it to me I will yell at you and then make fun of you on the internet. That does not make me a princess. THE END.

Posted by Lindy West | October 17, 2007 6:00 PM


Try reading #56. Like exelizabeth, I started getting harassed when I was very young, 10 to be exact. Where exactly was I going to magically get the confidence/wit/assertiveness to deal with that bullshit at that age? It's taken me ~17 years to even start to figure out how to deal with it.

I would love for more women to be empowered to fight back. Unfortunately young girls/young women are the ones most likely to be harassed and they're the ones least likely to be able to deal with it. So what is the solution? Making it illegal obviously isn't going to fly, although I see an argument for jailing and prosecuting men who harass minors.

And, no, my confidence (no longer) gets shattered by those nimrods. Nevertheless, the boys will be boys argument is bullshit, especially as it harms girls and women who are still in a place where it negatively affects them.

So, what's your take on workplace harassment? Should women just come back with witty rejoinders rather than complain to human resources/go to court?

Posted by keshmeshi | October 17, 2007 6:05 PM

boys will be boys, it's a dog eat dog world, whatever doesn't kill you only makes you stronger, god helps those who help themselves, whats good for the goose......idotic dreck like that.

Posted by clichébot | October 17, 2007 6:13 PM

Workplace harrassment is completely different.

Out on the street, you're participating in a broad public dialog, where half of it is written by and for dirtbags. Pretending they're not dirtbags is simply not sensible.

And pretending that the nice boys aren't thinking the same thing, but have had some manners drilled into them, isn't very sensible either.

the fact is, as human beings, you are objects. You're in the marketplace. So are men. We're no different than birds. Men catcalling you are simply displaying ineffective techniques.

As for where you're going to get the confidence etc., it's certainly not by being sheltered from reality. You do the same thing I did when I was bullied -- constantly -- at that age: you cry, and you learn to give it back.

Posted by Fnarf | October 17, 2007 6:14 PM

There's a little problem with your logic, Fnarf. You're arguing that when women demand an end to public sexual harassment we're asking for special treatment, because we allegedly believe that we're weak and stuff. However, that argument would only fly if men also had to deal with public sexual harassment. Seems to me, that we're only asking for the same freedom from grotesque comments/gestures/behaviors that men already enjoy.

And if men did have to deal with that shit, y'all would be simpering puddles of self-pity.

Posted by keshmeshi | October 17, 2007 6:26 PM

I would love to say something back to a street harasser, but chicken out because I fear for my safety. When they slow down their cars next to me when I'm walking, it REALLY makes me fearful. "justkeepdrivingjustkeepdrivingjustkeepdriving."

Posted by Laurel | October 17, 2007 6:27 PM

keshmeshi @ 62: Back when I was a longhair living right off of Frat Row in a giant college town I got my ass hooted at with some regularity (I had long blonde hair and it should be noted that I'm a short, fairly scrawny dude.) It was particularly funny when they'd cruise around to the front, notice that I was a dude, and then yell "fag!" as though I was admiring their ass and not the other way 'round. I've never seen a clearer explanation for homophobia.

I also had cars slow down when I was walking alone down the street at night to check me out before making the same discovery.

You're right, it's fucking creepy. I'm not sure that it turned me into a "simpering puddle of self-pity," though. It mostly just made me start thinking about the best direction to take off running if they got out of the car.

I've been hit on by gay men too but that was never anywhere near as creepy. They were almost without exception reasonably polite and complimentary.

The problem I have with statements like the one at Hollaback (" A compliment is not a compliment if it makes the recipient feel bad.") is that it makes it sounds like it's primarily an issue of hurt feelings when it seems like it's more a problem of fear for one's safety, and also because it makes it the line between appropriate and inappropriate behavior entirely dependent on the subjective reaction of the hearer. On some level the same compliment coming from a wildly unattractive person and a wildly unattractive one (I'm not talking about rude shit yelled from cars here, mind you) might be taken differently, depending, but that doesn't seem to be what this is really about.

Posted by flamingbanjo | October 17, 2007 7:52 PM

gawd i'm the worst!! never interesting, pointless, and skeeevy every time. i am mr. tough guy in car out to insult and drive away, whether fag or ho, i want to hurt you. i suck the life out of every one i encounter, yet i never get any... and that only makes my probems worse.

Posted by rude shit from guys in cars | October 17, 2007 8:35 PM

What really reduces your average catcaller to goo is when the chickie he's hollering at gives him the old hand-in-a-circle shake and a "in your dreams, jerkoff".

If I had a daughter, I wouldn't teach her that men honking at her are committing some dark crime, but I would teach her to shut them up with "what are you, a pedophile? I'm only ten" at the top of her lungs. Watch his face.

Posted by Fnarf | October 17, 2007 9:21 PM

but when women escalate things like that, there's a chance that the offender will be so upset by this grasp to regain some power that it can get scary. yeah, most of the time if you give someone a withering glare, they'll feel dumb and go away, but sometimes, they'll react really badly, get in your face and hurt you. getting catcalled isn't so deeply troubling in and of itself - it's just that it's a reminder of the fact that the culture we live in gives power to men to make judgements about the sexuality of women. it's one of the last powers men feel they have, and when we bother to say anything back, and show that we question that power, we open ourselves up for reprisals that are waaaaaay out of line. it goes immediately from "hey sweet ass" to " you're a fucking bitch for not responding to my attentions by acting demure and flattered and i hope someone rapes you to take you down a notch" as soon as you talk back. not often, but often enough to make taking the chance to say something pretty anxiety-inducing. I wish i had the moxy to have something witty and withering to say every time, but my fear of the minority of dudes who'd fly off the handle keeps me quiet, and that's what all those comments add up to.

Posted by erin | October 17, 2007 10:57 PM

I have only two things to say:
Do you have fries to go with that shake?
and (to a cyclist) Hey, it's against the law to peddle ass in the street.

Posted by her asser | October 18, 2007 9:49 AM

the blog is the best idea ever. a way to not only reclaim a sense of humor and dignity by being objectified, but by fucking laughing our asses off at how often this happens and in such ridiculous situations. it's not encouraging harassment. the harassment happens - for whatever reason - and thank god someone is documenting it, because "let's go halfsies on a baby" was so hilarious it made my work day bearable. and i work in litigation.

re: all this "should you retort back" discussion. if you feel someone has gained power over you by yelling something at you, yell back, fight back, whatevs. but if you find it humorous and brush it off, don't yell back. it's all personal preference! and just because you don't choose to retort back doesn't mean you're letting men belittle you (necessarily), or that you were abused as a child, or that you have low self esteem. sometimes you just chuckle and get on your way and remember that when you walk in occidental park around lunch time you better be wearing a turtleneck.

Posted by whats with all the dramz? | October 19, 2007 5:34 PM

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