Comments on Gay Turf

I think that something like the pylons (like Chicago which seem very effective) is a great idea. And I kinda like the idea of having the Q-Patrol back AND we need to have larger gay community support present on the hill on the weekends. And not just to go to the bars but to go to restaurants, movie theaters etc.

But there is a problem with that last part: there are no decent businesses anyone WANTS to patronize on the Hill and most of our clubs are pretty damn bad. Not all of them but most.

Bottom line, if we want Cap Hill to be "GAY" again the queers of Seattle have to make it gay. God knows Mayor Lard Ass and the homophobes hanging on the hill will never do it for us.

I think the rainbow pylons everywhere would be great, but what Seattle needs is some in-your-face straight people to bitch the fuck out of straight interlopers on capitol hill who cop anti-gay attitude. They need to see they are the MINORITY when they come here.

On more than one occasion I have told friends of mine that under no circumstance are they to bring people unfriendly to gay people in my neighborhood. And I have definitely enjoyed bitching out the Mormons, reminding them that bigots don't belong on the hill, and their message of intolerance isnt welcome. People need to speak up.

Maybe we could take a cue from the Eastcoast? Most people are way too scared to confront dumbass strangers in this town.

I would like to think that in the year 2007 in Seattle we wouldn't need to create a particularly queer space in order to remain safe. But with the recent bashings it seems it may be needed. Whether or not there is a true "surge" of gay bashing, the fact that any are happening at all is cause for concern.

and i'm totally pro pink berets.

i'd support pylons like that on cap hill, so long as they were made more phallic.

How about bringing back the Q-Patrol as both a neighborhood watch group and a cruising device. make it a status symbol to volunteer one's time as a Q-reservist. Get some good uniforms that don't bespeak military/police but do support gay culture.

Hmm. I live one block from Halsted and the phallic, rainbow towers, and I never realized that’s what they were for. I guess I always assumed that they were some kind of Pride or neighborhood chamber of commerce thing. I guess it makes sense, with all the drunk Cubs fans infesting the neighborhood every summer (though I think it would be hard to walk past Gay-Mart without realizing what it was about).

Its not just gay bashing though...Ive lived ont he hill for 11 years and there is a different vibe in the past year and half...and more violence. Ive been robbed, my wifes been mugged, told to go back to her own country and a friend hit in the head by a two by four in an alley...the gay problem is just part of it...id much rather have more queers in our hood and the hilarious Q patrol back than more of these 'softies moving in. As soon as some of them get beat up THEN we'll have problems...Can we hire Link to patrol the streets?

As a straight man I am against this idea, we shouldn't have to identify a neighborhood as gay safe, ore create patrols to make it safe. The whole city should be that way and the city should step up enforcement when any hate crime occurs. Not with standing a couple of of beat downs on intolerant f-tards would go a long way. This isn't a problem that residents of any orientation should have to deal with, this is something the police should deal with and they need to be held accountable if they continue to fail to make ALL areas of Seattle safe for GLBT etc.

Chicaaaaaaaago, Chicaaaaaaaaaaago, My Kinda Town!

Loo-loo, where have you been robbed and stuff? I never fear being out and about walking my dog late at night on Cap Hill (Boylston-Republican, over by Cornish) Yikes. Am I an idiot for not being scared?

I have lived in Chicago for nearly four months and can say I LOVE IT HERE!!!! Compared to Seattle, it is a Gay Heaven!!!!!

@9, yeah, not shocked a straight guy would be opposed to this idea.

One more comment thought I have to make on this. We should propose to the city we want something like rainbow pylons up and down Broadway. I would be interested to hear what community input from residents and business owners would be like.....

I was harassed and threatened this past weekend due to perceived sexual orientation, while walking down Broadway in broad daylight. The SPD arrested the guy and threw him in jail on malicious harassment charges. My perception, as a long time Seattle resident (I live in Belltown now, but recently moved from Pike\Pine) is that the neighborhood is definitely, without a doubt, less friendly to queer people than it was 5 years ago. I am happy that the SPD takes this stuff seriously though and threw that fucker in the slammer.

@9... you discredit everything you said by the first few words, "as a straight man". As a straight man, you have no idea what it's like being a gay man, and when the one part of the city that is known as the gay area has problems like this, it's "homos" like me who get up in your face and tell you to get the f*ck off our hill.

no, you couldn't use the phallic pylon in Seattle...the radical feminists would have a fit and we'd have to put up peach shaped signs for the womyn and separate ones for the bi's and the poly's and the trannies and the trannie poly's and so on and so on...

consensus ain't our thing...

also, chicago gets stuff done because they have a political machine that gets shit done or whatever Daley who's currently mayor will go all righteous on someone's ass....

Oh Dan. Your blisfulluy ignorant romanticization of Chicago politics is so cute. And it's Halsted not Halstead.

Dan,
I thought Q-Patrol were effective in the 90's. I loved having them around the clubs, and patroling Broadway esp. after the bars closed. They were also a part of the whole nightlife on Capitol Hill experience along with the Sisters of Perpectual Indulgences.
I do see an unfortunate but increasingly, intolerate vibe creeping across the city in general esp. Capitol Hill and downtown. More hate crimes, and violence.
Please keep us informed if Q-Patrol is planning a come-back I'm in full 100% support of it.

Also it's blissfully not blissfulluy

I was a member of Q Patrol in the mid-90s. I was not one of the ofounders or leaders, so I won't speak to mission or anything like that, but a few clarifications:

We never wore pink. Black pants, white tshirts or sweatshirts with the Q Patrol logo (blue and black lettering, I believe), and black berets. Oh, and silver jackets in the winter. From a fashion standpoint, the uniforms were not inspiring, but they didn't scream out "flaming 'mo" either.

The majority of the time we were the Capitol Hill roving information booth, giving directions, talking to tourists, helping someone stumbing out of a bar catch a cab, but during my time in the group, there were numerous times the group got involved in situations that led to apprehension, actively broke up physical fights, and also stepped in to de-escalate situations and keep them from becoming violent.

And though it was very important that the group was QUEER patrol, we were there for everyone, not just the gays and lesbians. Several members of the group were straight. And, as I said, we never wore pink.

As a straight man (and Capitol Hill resident since 1996), I am all in favor of this idea. Q Patrol made me feel safer too.

"Capitol Hill was gay space."

And then it became overpriced.

Get over yourselves.

rocket-shaped pylons

So... those evoke "rockets" in your mind, do they?

Interesting.

@16... Ummm Duh.
"As a gay man", I have to say you're part of the problem, not the solution. Calm the fuck down and accept the well-intended opinion of another human being. As a gay man, as a straight man... just be a man. I agree with our friend at comment 9. We shouldn't have to create patrols and gay ghettos to be safe. It's idealist, perhaps naive, but he's right-- we shouldn't have to.

@25, why don't you join us here in the real world. You know the reality based community.

Put the rainbow flags back on the light polls along Broadway, Pike, and Pine.

I liked the Q-patrollers, they were really very nice.

WIll in SEattle is right. Even though the aged gays have more disposable income, they arent financial idiots.

@18
Chicago politicians can get things done, that's not a romanticization... and if you're in good standing with mayor daley, a powerful aldermen or maggie daley, then hell, so can you... that's not a romanticization, it's true... Doesn't mean we don't have corruption, might mean the opposite, but hey, it's "the city that works" right?

A little corruption for the greater benefit of the city is better than a little corruption for nothing.

obviously what I meant to say was "powerful alderman."

I'm just saying there's no reason to start telling straight people to fuck off, particularly when all they are saying (although naively) is they wish for a city that globally embraced protecting all of its citizenry from hate crimes.
What's it like in your "reality based community"? Do gays and straights not interact there? Sounds like a strange reality.

Hang on. Didn't you say, I think it was in a Savage Lovecast, that things like this were pointless or arbitrary as a city's "gay" neighborhood moves every so often?

Dan, I was with you right up until this part:

...you’re in the city’s gay neighborhood, where you’re going to be sharing the streets and stores and clubs with ‘mos, and you just might be presumed to be gay. And if you don’t like it, well, you might want to go party elsewhere.

(Emphasis mine.) Is this really the best that Seattle homos should aspire to - the gay ghetto on Capitol Hill? A place no straight people should go unless they want to be conflated with The Gays?

Instead of trying to create a little fortress on the hill, why can't we make the whole city, if not the whole county, safer and more gay-friendly? Wouldn't that be more just?

#16 is ridiculous. Why are there so many self-pitying gay guys? "Waah, you have no idea how hard it is to be a fag". Oh, fuck off you twat. Learn some self defense techniques, that should sort the bashing problems out.

Personally I wouldn't want to live in an area surrounded by rainbow flags. It's corny.

Oh, I'm gay too, so you people can't accuse me of being racialist for my comments.

Breeders!!! BREEDERS!!!

they do it in west hollywood. why not here? always wondered that.

I agree with @25 and @35. Leave the well-intentioned straight dude @9 alone.

@9 Well said.

"pylons or whatever won’t prevent bashing and harassment. But it couldn’t hurt."

Why not kill two birds with one stone and get Wonder Twins Jan & Zana on this issue:

Form of... a RAINBOW PYLON!
Shape of... a SAFETY TRIANGLE!

@34 - What's wrong with a gay "ghetto"? It's only because of the real (i.e. Jewish) ghettos in Eastern Europe that there are still Jews today. If the European Jews had lived dispersed among hostile goyim, without any support for their distinct religion, culture, language, etc. they would long ago have been assimilated. It would not have been necessary for Hitler to murder them. They would have disappeared thru attrition.

It's not really a question of what we "aspire" to. Like anybody's aspirations, ours are complex and maybe contradictory. In fact, while some of us may aspire to live in peace and harmony among our straight friends, many of us aspire to living in a neighborhood where straight people, no matter how well intentioned, just leave us the fuck alone.

I miss the Q Patrol too. The women in uniform were hot, and I felt I had a ready ally should I need one.

issur = gay alex?

"in fact while some of us my aspire to live in peace and harmony among our gay friends, many of us aspire to living on a planet where gay people, no matter how integrated, kind, loving, caring, contributing, just leave all us straight people on this planet alone."

Yeah, you wouldnt accept that kind of rhetoric, so why do you spout it?

@41
Interesting reference to Jewish ghettos, but here's a little history lesson for you:

"During World War II, ghettos were established by the Nazis to confine Jews into tightly packed areas of the cities of Eastern Europe. Starting in 1939, Adolf Eichmann, head of the Final Solution program, began to systematically move Polish Jews into designated areas of large Polish cities. The Ghettos were walled off, and any Jew found leaving them was shot."

Um, no. I'm not with you on this one Dan. Putting up phallic gay pylons and declaring Capitol Hill to be a homo neighborhood just reinforces the ghetto mentality. The idea that only Capitol Hill should be safe for homos, and all homos should hang out there and nowhere else, is not the kind of place I want to live. Nor do I want my straight friends and allies to feel unwelcome or gay by association whenever they enter the sanctified gay zone.

However naive our straight friend @9 may be, I agree with his premise: that all of Seattle should be safe and friendly toward gays, not just Capitol Hill. And cordoning off a section of the city and declaring it an official homo neighborhood does nothing to encourage city wide tolerance.

I do like the idea of bringing back Q Patrol, on the other hand. They were great.

I'm a little confused about the pylons in Chicago. Did they put the rainbow pylons in the Polish and Italian neighborhoods, or did they make them Red and White and Green, White, and Red respectively?

Weren't the berets purple?

Bummer that Pride abadoned The Hill.

@43 - Actually I'd be happy to leave them all alone if they'd return the favor. The problem is, I've never heard of queers going out straight-bashing. I've never heard of queer bosses firing male employees for being "too masculine" or women for being feminine. Have you?

To put it another way, straight people are the dominant social group, so they set the agenda. I don't. Sorry if my experience makes me believe that the best I'm gonna get out of them is merely being left alone. But that's the way it is.

@41: So in your opinion, segregation is a Good Thing. Do you know who you sound like?

Segregation does nothing to promote tolerance. Rather, the reverse happens: it becomes easier to identify with the "group" and stereotype the "other." If you want The Straights to leave you alone, don't expect them to empathize with your isolation.

@44 - Here's a history lesson for you...ghettos, i.e. separate neighborhoods for Jews, often walled off from the rest of the city, existed in Eurpoean cities at least since the 11th century. There are documented examples of Crusader armies doing their Christian duty by attacking ghettos on their route to Jerusalem and massacring the residents. Yes, the Nazis did the same, but they didn't invent either ghettos or anti-semitism.

The Stranger seems to have a hard time making up its mind about Capitol Hill. This summer all we heard was what a miserable place our little "Gay Ghetto" was. And now Dan wants pretty pylons to send a mesasage that this is "our hood."

Any way the wind blows...

@49 - No, I don't think segregation is a good thing. But I can understand why people of color neither like nor trust white people, and I can understand why any marginalized people might want to focus more on strengthening and defending their own communities than on making friends with potential enemies.

All of you folks out there who think bringing back Q-Patrol or making Seattle distinctly different think about this:

First, maybe the International District should stop being, you know so International (well really Oriental)

Second, you want impress all of us queers with how wonderful Seattle can be? How about a bunch of straight guys re-start the Q-Patrol (or something like it)? I will be out Friday night looking for you.

Third, I agree with the above reference that gays do not attack straights. It is the other way around. And as much as people want all of Seattle to be a wonderful inclusive place the reality is it is not. Before we can make all of Seattle safe, let's see if we can make just one neighborhood safe. A straight neighborhood is not always safe for gays. BUT a gay neighborhood is safe for everyone.

Alex @41 & 48. You do realize that there are straight people out there who actively fight for gay rights (or who actively don't give a shit whether their friends/neighbors/co-workers/etc. are straight or gay). That you have allies who are straight people who might possibly be able to help you toward equal rights under the law. And that saying you just want to be let alone by them actively discourages them from doing so?

As it applies to Americans in general,
I understand the sentiment about the best you can hope for is to be left alone (if the churches just stopped caring about homosexuality, how nice would that be?). But, what you said was that "many of us aspire to living in a neighborhood where straight people, no matter how well intentioned, just leave us the fuck alone." Which implies, don't come live in our neighborhood or care about our causes or speak out against homophobia.

That's sort of baffling to me, but, as @16 would say, I have no idea what it's like to be a gay man.

It's all a matter of time before someone gets really hurt. Police sound like they will take things seriously. If something happens try to spot witnesses and have the police get their names.

Julie @54 - Yes I realize I have straight allies. However, what I want my straight allies to do is to go and deal with heterosexism among their straight peers. I don't really need them to show up in the places where I hang out with other queers, as if that somehow "proved" their lack of bigotry. Malcolm and Stokely were right.

@47 - nope, they were black. There was nothing pastel, swishy, spangly or sparkly about the uniforms. Probably because it was started by lesbians.

Adding to the conversation Alex started, it might be in the best interest of LBGT folks to band together in self defense, just because the bashings are likely going to get worse as you gain your rights in the upcoming years and decades. (See: Civil Rights violence in the 60s, when they were making their greatest strides.)

@ 9 expresses the ideal we all should strive for, but Alex is a bit closer to the reality of the situation.

Alex, I dont need a gay man to validate my views on integrating homosexuals into society full scale or to invalidate my right to patronize a traditionally gay bar.

See, the attitude that "we should just be left alone" will never actually happen, so you should buckle up and prepare on how to deal with it and work with friendly heteros, not tell us to get lost.

I mean really, you want all friendly heterosexual people to just leave you alone so that what, you can have your lives restricted by those who are antagonistic towards you?

And by the way, I too thought the Q-Patrol looked spiffy.

Even if it was more of an excuse to go for a walk for most of them.

"Concerning nonviolence, it is criminal to teach a man not to defend himself when he is the constant victim of brutal attacks."

Bi, Gay & Les & T, any means necessary!!!

@56: All right, put up or shut up. On Saturday I was in Lynnwood, protesting the Watchmen on the Walls. Where the fuck were you?

@59 - I'm glad you don't need me to validate your views. Please don't be offended if I tell you I don't need you to validate mine, either.

I know very well that I will have to deal with heteros, both friendly and not. I'm just saying to the friendly ones - prove you're friendly by challenging your heterosexist friends, neighbors, and relatives, not by drinking where I drink or eating where I eat.

It doesn't really make a difference to me who is drinking next to me, queer or straight, but if the only way you're trying to show your progressive values is by coming and drinking in a queer bar I have to tell you that you are full of shit. If you hold the values you claim to hold, you shouldn't be spending your time drinking in queer bars, you should be spending your time trying to persuade other straight folks to treat queers like human beings.

As someone who worked at a store on Broadway a decade ago, I have to say that the Q-Patrol was one of my favorite parts about cap hill, and they certainly made a diverse neighborhood more peaceful. Along with the Sisters and the Hairy Fishnuts and the X-Tian whackjobs who always had new Chick tracts for me to cut apart and change around, the Patrol helped make the hill a better place, unlike the current crop of hipster douches and hobos.

I don't know that the Q-Patrol or someone like them *needs* to come back, but a visible group, on the street, talking to everyone can only help.

Alex,
Why are "good" straights relegated to hetero-ville to straighten out the "bad" straights, but gays should hunker down in their ghetto and give all the straights the finger? I don't get your thinking. It's gonna take bridges being built from both directions, not a moat around the gays while we hope the straights will work out our societal issues for us.

alex, patronizing a gay neighborhood and making sure other heteros arent hostile towards gays are not mutually exclusive. I can tell other heteros to stop being hostile towards gays and go to Manray, just not on the same day.

I also dont show that I'm gay friendly by hanging out at gay bars. That's a hollow jesture. I do it by not being homophobic, not being friends with people who are, and telling people who openly are that I think they are full of shit. It just so happens though that I dont know anyone who is openly anti gay so I can't really spread the good word.

which brings up the question. Why should I fight for someone on principle alone when;

1. I have to go out of my way to find heterosexuals that are anti gay
2. There are gays that don't want me to integrate with them
3. I have to fight for someone else beyond what they do themselves to be treated equally when they don't really want integration.

@65 - robo, I'm sorry you think I'm giving you the finger. Not my intention. I'm just saying that if you are serious about the values you profess, there should be things you are willing to do in the real world beyond merely socializing with queers.

@66 - Bellevue, (if I can call you by your first name) in my opinion, and I don't claim to speak for everyone in the queer community, the goal is not integration. The goal is equality. If straight people will recognize my rights to marry, hold a job, buy a house, get a credit card, walk down the street without getting beat up, etc. then I don't really care if they socialize with me or not.

Understand. I have straight friends that I spend time with. Sometimes they come and drink with me in queer bars. Fine. But I have to tell you, my life's ambition is not really to drink with straight boys in a queer bar. I like my straight friends, but to me, it's pretty much irrelevant whether I have straight friends or not.

I'm glad to hear your friends are not "openly" heterosexist, and that you wouldn't be friends with people who are. I don't doubt that, and I think that's important. Let me also point out to you that (like racism in Seattle) heterosexism in Seattle is often of the passive aggressive type. In other words, it doesn't necessarily manifest in overt actions.

but youre missing the point in that, the road to equality isnt paved with segregation and separation. I know that integration doesnt necessarily mean equality and vice versa, but for many of us, both gay and straight, we cant imagine getting the point where you are equal without integration and positive gay exposure. I think it's a bit silly to think that you can get the point where you can exclusively hang out with gays AND be equal. Either you're going to be an oppressed minority in seclusion or an integrated minority that has equality but not seclusion. or somewhere in between.

How about we just find a way to shut down the War Room and Club Lagoon? Problem solved.

@16- um....so I should move out of my favorite hood in seattle because i'm a straight guy. you make yourself sound like a reactionary fool.
p.s.- this is "my" hill too.

@67 Alex... one last comment from me and then I'm done banging my head against your weird bitter logic. First off, I'm gay, not straight. Secondly, I live in Texas... TEXAS for Chrissake. Your "woe is me, life in Seattle is so hard for a gay like me" act is laughable to gays in places like Texas. I've spent a lot of time in Seattle... it's gay paradise in comparison to the reality of most other places in this country. But welcome to the world... it's full of people... they're not all out to get. You grow a spine, live your life, and empathetically understand that everyone has shit to work through, and it all runs more smoothly without angry lines and boundaries drawn in the sand. Living in your hole may work for you, but proudly living an OUT life, integrated into an occasionally hostile world works great for me. You take your ghetto and burrow into it like a tick, and I'll take the rest of the planet quite happily.

Oh No not more rainbow designated areas. Fuck I hate the rainbow tag and most gay related slogans and symbols. Gay ghetto areas are so predictable and BORING and boring simplistic gays buy into it.
Thankfully I live in an area with a great mix of people that just get on with living instead of perpetuating stereotypical gay behavior.
In some ways I always thought Seattle had a good grasp on not over identifying as having a "GAY area" which made Seattle seem a little different and unique than other major cities in the US. That is why I like it.
Lets face it gay areas are created by gay businesses to generate revenue from people sucked in by a gay identified area. Those same people then go on to use every other PC excuse why they are doing it. But really the bottom line is wanting that disposable gay income by creating mini gayland and to be like everyone else.
Other cities have gay areas designated by tacky rainbow flags and pillars. It does not stop bashing. Just creates a gay business area and a gay ghetto.

First--Halsted.

Second--all the gay people have moved up to Andersonville, Edgewater and Rogers Park. The rainbow pylons are basically for Sidetrack, Roscoes and Steamworks.

Third--all the straight people think the Halstead landscaping is to honor the neighborhood's Puerto Ricans. Seriously.

Wow. I thought this was Seattle. We're known for being progressive & having a large LGBT community, not being segregated between heteros & homos. I'm ashamed of this, especially since we're readers of The Stranger. We're all human.

Dan, do you wear rainbow pins or pink triangle pins or some sort of queer identification? Maybe you should go back to Hey Faggot or Dear Faggot, or whatever it was that people called you in your column oh so many years ago. Just a thought.

I totally get where Alex is coming from.

The U.S. is about 2 decades behind Canada.

Forget Chicago. If you're gay, move to Canada.
Gay couples in Massachussetts
will be filing schizophrenic taxes -
married for the state, single for the federal
government - until 2027, I fear.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2007_10/012351.php

Society should accept homosexuality
Age 18-39 40+
U.S. 52% 47%
Canada 78% 68%

Must believe in God to be moral
Age 18-39 40+
U.S. 51% 61%
Canada 18% 34%

Data from other countries can be found at the link.
Also an interesting discussion in comments there.

Oh, and here's the real Puerto Rican neighborhood marker in Chicago.
It's not a pylon.
http://www.newcommunities.org/cmaimages/LaEstanciaflag.jpg

@73... I don't know what you're talking about. Halsted & Roscoe is not a Puerto Rican neighborhood (that would be Western and Division-ish). Nobody, straight or gay, could possibly mistake those rainbow pylons for anything other than indicators of a gay neighborhood. Unless they are a total moron.

And Alex, I don't think you can reasonably expect a group of people to stand up for you, while you have a "your can fight for my rights if you want, but otherwise fuck off" attitude. I mean, if all the gay people I knew had your attitude, I certainly wouldn't be inclined to write letters, argue with my religious friends, etc.

It's fine to be suspicious of straights, given our overall record, but recognize that not everyone is out to get you.

What? I don't get all this gay segregation. And the thought that straight folks can't come eat/drink with us is weird to me. I think Seattle obsesses over the gay-thing. My straight friends and family aren't weird or homophobic mostly because they are friends with a gay person. They've all come out with me at gay bars for a drink. Is it so odd to want to be with your friends (gay or straight) -- all in one place? And for all the straight folks showing your support in this thread -- thank you. I kind of feel you're getting shit on for that support and I don't get that.

You know, the Capital Hill area is already known to be a gay ghetto of sorts.
There is no need to mark it. The 'tards that come down from Lynnwood or up from Kent to spew their hate and violence already have the area firmly in their tiny rodent minds.

The vast majority of Seattle queers already live dispersed throughout the various neighborhoods, invisible to the useless 'tards. The straights in these neighborhoods are supportive, friendly, and accepting of the gays in their midst. We all do not need a ghetto to live in, but for those who do, let there be protection and staked territory.

Just as Belltown has their private cops, so could Cap Hill have some kind of private patrol. The Q-Patrol was a great way to stake a claim to street safety.

Um ... marking it isn't going to help. If people read it better, these attackers were 'seeking out' the gay community and looking for specifically gay people to attack. So they already know it's a gay area. What MUST happen is that the police have to be pressured into treated it as it is, a hate crime, and not just random violence. Cap Hill is already pretty well marked most of the year, except when the bastard-holidays come around. No, marking it will not help in any way. These scum are brazened by the fact that they are getting away with it. If we simply made it illegal for ALL hate groups, even taking away their right to free speech for voicing hatred, that would create a long term effect. Untill then, these hatemongers are moving in from other states, they are ruining our city in more ways than this as well.

@80: Good points, except for the free speech thing. I think Americans have had their free speech rights curtailed enough as it is, thank you very much. If a hate group espouses a particularly awful message, you need to respond with your own, not try to get the government to turn off their microphone.

Also like Chicago.

Gay on http://www.findbilover.com. Like to meet you.