Comments on The Good War

Charles Mudede: The point of Ken Burn’s War?

Forgive me if I'm unwittingly reflecting the bias of an oppressive capitalist system where professional journalists are expecting to spell people's names correctly or at least exhibit fifth-grade-level mastery of the apostrophe, but:

I thought the guy's name was Ken Burns, not Ken Burn.

Now back to whatever Mr. Mudede was pontificating about...

Plus, a lot of sketchy shit went down in WWII. We just weren't blogging about it. (This is not the sketchiest shit, but I read yesterday that Roosevelt didn't personally do many of his radio speeches... He hired an ACTOR to read them on the air! Imagine if that happened today. The press would be on that like flies on rotten meat.) War is ugly, regardless of the grand myths we invent to make it seem glorious. And it's always been that way.

What, other than assassinating Hitler, could have been done to prevent the European front of the war? Germany's neighbors bent over backwards to appease that asshole. It didn't work.

Based on random statistics, it may be fair to suggest that the grandfathers of many Sloggers here served, fought and died in "The War". He never talks about it, does he?

While it's considered unpopular and unproductive to proselytize (sometimes called advertising), you Must Watch this series to understand where this country came from since 1940.

There is no comparison between World War II and the abomination we are now perpetuating in Iraq. For starters, virtually no one is affected by the I-Rock-Abortion...well, except for those who die or are maimed and for those who profit. A little history never hurts anyone, and while you'll get no spoonfuls of sugar from Ken Burns, he teaches best. Watch! Learn!

Ugly Betty will wait - she'll be in re-runs and eventually get pretty, lose those braces, sleep with her hot boss. Trust me, "The War" trumps the petite woes of Betty.

I'm with you Charles, but I've been watching Burns' documentary and I think it makes your second point somewhat also.

By moving back and forth between home and the front it highlights how brutally aberant war conditions are both for the individual and on a large scale.

Also, I think the U.S. population is becomeing so ahistorical in their outlook that it is a worthwhile source of knowledge for the ignorant.

In anycase, I think it's good dramatic film making on its own and seems to have just gotten better after the first episode.

Lots more to say about your topic, but no time.

Have you been watching it?

@2 - and Guess What? Roosevelt couldn't walk either. And he had a mistress. Yeah - I guess you could say a lot of "sketchy shit" went down in WWII, but it seems fair to posit that without Roosevelt and Churchill you'd be writing this slog in Japanese Kanji.

This documentary serves as a warning against manical madmen hellbent on taking over the world. And how fear can silence good citizens.

In the 1990s the Project For a New American Century was a kinder, gentler fascism outlined on paper. But now that people are dying by the thousands under their regime, we need to hear the story of Europe in the 1930s and 40s.

I'm wondering if you watched the show. I didn't, but one of my coworkers did, and one of the things about it that struck her was that there were a lot of monumental blunders during that war, too. She said, "You see that the American public was not being told the truth. They were being told that everything was perfect and the Allies never made any mistakes. But it wasn't that way at all."

Sounds like you're worrying about nothing. Non-blog?

The War is a great doc. and i've been watching it every night. I'd bet Charles isn't actually watching it. It has taught me a lot about WWII and how ridiculous the Iraq War is/has been.

There will always be war, no matter how many books on philosophy you read. Get used to it or kill yourself now.

World war 2 was a war won by "Ivan" and the suicidal charges of the Soviet Army against the best and most savage of the Reich. World War 2 was won in Stalingrad and the push to Berlin by the red army. 20 million Soviets died there. Ken Burns' film can not be a true account of world war 2, it is merely the American experience. He does mention in the intro to to the series, but it is a mere mention. The American experience in world war 2 though brave was not the determining factor. If it were not for the Soviets and their defeat of the German 6th army, England and the US would not have won and the world would look a hell of a lot different today.

@2- I wouldn't be surprised if the press knew about Roosevelt's stand-ins, but didn't report on them. You think the media doesn't report on things now? I think quite a few Americans had no idea that FDR was even in a wheelchair.

First off, "televisionally"??? Where the hell did the Metro Times writer pull that one from?

Second, it's amazing how well propaganda worked during the war. People "back home" really sacrificed a hell of a lot to keep the war machine churning. Imagine that today; as much as everyone already detests this war and its never-ending mire, most of us don't really have to sacrifice anything other than our tax dollars. If we had to give up certain foods, material goods, etc. on top of it, there would have been a bloody uprising by now.

@1: I may be nit picking (hyphen or not? Your call), but off-point (ditto) prescriptivism seems out of place in this serious discussion thread.

@8 : That's a great point. The episode that covered the Cassino-Anzio campaign illustrated that perfectly. Undermanned resources, random casualties during months of inertia, before the opponent finally exhausted themselves.

Perhaps we do need to see how ugly it is in order to not be willing to rush into it so easily. It's easy to sit back and say there should be no war. Um, okay. But there is. And the men who start it are never the ones who have to fight it. Neither are the majority of the flag waving so called patriots who would sacrifice our young men and women for a cause they don't even understand. Everyone understood very clearly why the U.S. entered WWII. Perhaps you don't know this, but it was going on long before we booted up for it. Going to war is so much easier with an all volunteer military, no chance of a draft, and not a blip's difference in the lives of stateside Americans. I'll bet you cash if the hummer driving flag wavers had to boot up or send their sons, or have their gas rationed, or any other the other inconvenieces that a war like WWII presented - I think Bush would have been run out of town tarrred and feathered. Perhaps that should be the new rule, we don't go to war unless everyone in the country is called upon to participate.

So are you suggesting that Hitler could've been reasoned with Charles? I believe most of Europe and England tried to do that. Also I believe that Russia initially had a non-Aggression pact with Germany.

I have been watching this program when I can. I had one grandparent serve on a B-17 as a tailgunner in the Pacific Theatre and another that served in the European theatre in the infantry.

I'm not a fan of War by any means and hate the fact that we are in Iraq. And agree that war is a big waste.

Just trying to understand your point about WWII is all....

All I know is the sooner we leave Iraq, the better.

We've been there LONGER than WW II. With less accomplished - in fact, negative accomplishments.

for your information, i watched one installment on sunday night.

@6

The Japanese could not have invaded the United States. That would have required lots of oil, and oil was something they were woefully short of (thanks to the embargo efforts of the US). Plus, how much of the country do you think they could have held? Southern California? I doubt even that much.

I'm waiting for the whole series to run its course so I can watch it on On Demand marathon style. On my couch. In my underwear.

@6: the point Charles is trying to make is war is shit. It's pretty simple. Don't give the man a hard time on one of the few occasions he actually makes sense.

@19: stop it.

Charles, how the fuck is a "necessary war" simultaneously a waste? I believe the term that applies to subjects such as World War Two is SACRIFICE. Or has that word left the American lexicon by now...

@ 19 - The "what if" theory of history is lovely in retrospect. Had we lost at Midway, an invasion of the Hawaiian Islands was a real possibility, if not a workable plan. A few twists of fate here and there, a few unimaginable losses and the Mississippi might have demarcated the US into an eastern German territory and a western Japanese territory.

Do you imagine the Germans ever thought they would ever be crushed? Although we never invaded the Japanese home islands, at this very moment on the Ginza, there is plenty of English being written and spoken by the natives. Coincidence? Or merely God's divine sunshine on US?

@ 12

because of our current 'war' we've given up/sacrificed our economy for the foreseeable future and a shit ton of civil liberties.

WWII needed to happen, but it wasugly as hell--not the mythic War between Good versus Evil which would be so convenient for us to have fought. It's never so simple.

America did too little too late to stop Hitler, as a result 6 million of my people died horrific deaths. The Holocaust was the worst suffering by any people in all of human history. No other people at any time has suffered more than the Jews in WWII.

That said, at a time when European University professors have actually researched and questioned the 6 million number (thank goodness those Professors are now in jail!) I believe American goyim need yet another dose of the Holocaust. The goyim are intellectually lazy and forget how they didn't help the Jews enough in WWII. The goyim must be told again and again that if America hadn't sat on it's ass many of my ancestors would still be alive. No other version of WWII history should be written or even thought about. It's too dangerous to allow anyone to question the sacred 6 million number.

WWII history is important because America did nothing to help the European Jews. Now America can do what's right and help Israel to make up for the horrific neglect of WWII.

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/63251/

"The Holocaust was the worst suffering by any people in all of human history."

I'm no Holocaust denier, buuuuuuuut

(in no particular order)
Crusades, Black Death, AIDS, Great Leap Forward, the Russian 20th century, Spanish Inquisition, WW2 For Everybody, 5 million gentiles Also killed by Nazis, and so on, and so on.

not to mention slavery in America that lasted 200 years!!! i'm not in any way saying that the Holocaust was not horrible - but, to claim "the worst suffering" in history - um ... that's a reach for any group.

Anyone especially University Professors who question the 6 million number for the Holocaust should be put in jail. The Nazi's may have killed a few goyim, but the Jews suffered the most.