Comments on Presbyterians--They're Not All Alike

Ahhhh, Whitworth Alumn here and I can tell you that the Pres Church USA is not a hell of a lot better then the more conservative branch of the church in gay and lesbian matters. (Whitworth College in Spokane is affiliated with the Presbyterian Church USA) And even though some are saying the college is coming around slowly, bottom line is if you are Gay or Lesbian: Avoid the Presbyterians AT ALL COSTS!!

I had the joy of death threats, being beaten up, my car vandalized while at school from members of the Presbyterian Church USA.

Add on to #1, However since he is a Presbyterian, it does explain his spineless position on gay marriage. (That church is very scared to take a stand on any issue that could possibly cause "trauma" to the congergations)

Fact: you can rearrange the letters in "Presbyterians" to spell "Britney Spears".

Thank you.

Presbyterians—They’re Not All Alike

nope:

a. Highball glass, filled with ice
b. 1 oz. Bourbon
c. 1/2 fill with Ginger ale
d. 1/2 fill with Soda
e. Stir, if desired
f. Lemon twist garnish

or d: can be 1/2 coca-cola and 1/2 soda

also e: leaves the stir option open

if you're really wacky you can garnish with an orange!

---hipsterlite

oh yeah, choice of Bourbon is also a consideration, with Makers Mark, or Jim Beam being personal faves.

*hipsterlite

ECB: Does this mean you're wrong about the Blue Angels, also?

Hating you is way more fun when you blame your mistakes on someone else. Couldn't you just say that Presbyterians brought this on themselves? Or that the root cause is the patriarchy?

You don't have to mean it. Just say it. For me. It would bolster my world view. When you apologize like that, I feel unmoored and wonder when the other shoe will drop.

Ignorant Christians are all alike. Only in Judaism do you find a rainbow of beautiful variation. From the ultra-conservative Orthodox who will not sit next to a woman in worship, to the Reform Jews who allow gay marriage.

Toxic Christianity leads to group think. America needs to follow Israel's lead an become a secular nation.

HAH! As I expected you were wrong. It was PCUSA! So he is only moderately a bigot and a hate monger. If he wins I'm moving to Bellevue...

Issur rawks!!! The BEST posts ever, I would say. Who ever thought Jewish humor could be soo funny?

@1, I went to Whitworth for a year and a half and almost died. This is not to say that there aren't some amazing faculty members and students, but you're right: the anti-gay faction is strong and vicious, and overall the student body is frighteningly conservative and close-minded.

To the PCUSA's credit, it does ordain women. And the denomination has officially okayed masturbation!! That's right, the Presbyterians say masturbation is a-ok, "when it occurs as a normal developmental experience or as a deliberately chosen alternative to inappropriate heterosexual activity." (PCUSA official pamphlet) (This may not be widely publicized or even known in member churches but that is the official policy.) The denomination also approved a resolution which declares that there is no contradiction between the evolutionary theory of human origin and the doctrine of God as Creator." (From the 214th General Assembly)

Obviously there are plenty of ways the PCUSA has sinned against the populace, if you will... Just wanted to throw these facts in the mix.

Even though it doesn't say explicitly, I'm sure PCUSAers would advocate masturbation in lieu of "inappropriate HOMOSEXUAL activity" as well. :P

Pity the poor goyium. In Israel goyium can masterbate as much as they like and have as much sex and whatever kind of sex they prefer.

Judaism is the only world religion that allows everyone complete sexual freedom. Christianity and Islam are toxic cults that must be stamped out.

Despite being in PCUSA, Burgess's church Bethany Presbyterian is still quite conservative for Seattle standards, as a former attendee, they still maintain the double standard that homosexuality is fine as long as you don't actually, you know, have sex with the same sex as you. One of the pastors left because she had a gay son, and did not want his lifestyle vilified.

BTW Bethany press was featured in your feature on seattle churches #24 or 26 i think

"In Israel goyium can masterbate as much as they like and have as much sex and whatever kind of sex they prefer."

cool I'll do it while thinking of you and you sexxy beard and curly fry tassels.

To the other Whitworth Alumn:

Yeah, there were a few great profs (one who came out in the Music department then was fired, and one who resigned due to the overreaching conservative mentality of the campus)

But Whitworth and the PCUSA played a HUGE role in making me realize the idea of God is a man-made illusion. So there was a positive side. And I had lots of sex in the dorms as well. (And Katelyn, that was not a Big Three violation since it was not a member of the opposite sex! unless they closed that loop hole) Only a Whitworth Alumn will get that reference!

Andrew,

I'm another Whitworth Alumn. I'm curious who resigned due to the conservative mentality. Wish I could have gotten lucky in the dorms when I was there, but I was still a few years a way from coming to terms with being gay.

Lol @ Big Three. I was totally an RA until I dropped out, I hated the pressure to enforce stupid rules about sex (there's still the loophole, although now RAs can "make further inquiries" if anyone's taking naps together or anything), not to mention the pot prohibition. Go, smoke your weed! Have your sex!

It's possible there are more gay couples having sex at Whitworth than there are straight couples having sex, given the old-fashioned and repressed attitude about relationships there. Oh man. I had no idea other Whitworth alums were slogging. Cool, we survived!!

It seems from reading Whitworth literature and post on here that it has gotten more conservative. It seemed more in middle of the road when I was there. I was there '87-92.

I was raised presbyterian, rather in a liberalish presbyterian USA church. I swear to God, there just isn't that much that binds presbyies together. Really.

Nothing at all, except maybe a feeling of blandness, a general lack of official anti-Semitism, and a feeling of dimishing influence, popularity and name recognition.

We didn't even have contact with the other presbyterian churches in town.

@19 Yeah, I was there '03ish and it has gotten much more conservative, due to a (charming but) conservative administration and a student body who is MORE conservative than in the 80s and 90s. This is a topic of much debate at the school right now -- why the increase in scarily conservative students? Possibly a backlash against how 'middle of the road' Christian culture had become, possibly part of this weird fundamentalist revival happening nationwide. Other liberal arts colleges report similar trends -- the students are more conservative than most of the faculty. There's still a huge (and growing) Young Life influence at Whitworth. As far as I know there are no openly and vocally gay faculty members these days, and the Catholic faculty are the ones having to defend their right to be on staff... The place is due for a big change, as is the denomination at large.

@20 yep, in the 50s and again in the 70s mainline denominations like the PCUSA saw great wealth and popularity. Those eras gave many churches a puffed up sense of what they could expect from members, how much sway they had in town politics, and what kind of membership growth they could maintain. These days many of those same booming 50s churches are half empty and dealing with a much different nation. For a great example of a church in Seattle struggling with this very problem, see First Presbyterian Church of Seattle (on First Hill/downtown). Now there's a ravaged church unable to deal with the changing times. (And God knows they're trying.)

Katelyn,

I heard that they were going to let a gay group meet on campus this year. I'd love to verify that.