Slog - Comments on Even Scarier... http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/even_scarier In the latest report of misstatements by the Bush administration to Congress, intel director Mike McConnell told Congress that the "Protect America Act"—the controversial surveillance powers that Congress voted to grant Bush this summer—had helped in the recent terrorist bust in Germany. McConnell's testimony was, critics say, misleading because the "Protect America Act" hadn't been passed yet. And so, they argue, McConnell unfairly trumpeted the program. But I think Bush detractors are missing the more alarming point here. McConnell probably wasn't lying. He was probably telling the truth. Meaning: The Bush administration was using its extensive spying capabilities before getting... Copyright 2008 Thu, 13 Sep 2007 09:47:00 -0800 Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:57:18 -0800 http://www.movabletype.org/?v=3.34 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Comment by Morgan Poindexter started the program back in 2002, I think it was called Carnivore at the time.

]]> Morgan http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/even_scarier#c803968 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/even_scarier#c803968 Politics Thu, 13 Sep 2007 09:57:21 -0800 Comment by obvious re: he was probably telling the truth.
well duh. with voice recognition and cpu speed increases, eventually all electronic communications will be able to be monitored.

]]> obvious http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/even_scarier#c803970 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/even_scarier#c803970 Politics Thu, 13 Sep 2007 09:57:37 -0800 Comment by Tiffany Since when do they need to get congressional approval to spy on terrorist groups outside of the country? Maybe I am missing something here, but it's a completely different issue than having them spy on people inside the USA.

]]> Tiffany http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/even_scarier#c803984 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/even_scarier#c803984 Politics Thu, 13 Sep 2007 10:09:52 -0800 Comment by Bald Face Lie Echelon-80's
Carnivore -90's
Digital Storm- Today

NSA warrantless domestic wiretaps - Today
http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Surveillance/NSA/
"probable cause" has become "resonable basis"

Fourth Amendment - Gone
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


]]> Bald Face Lie http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/even_scarier#c804001 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/even_scarier#c804001 Politics Thu, 13 Sep 2007 10:31:14 -0800 Comment by Carollani That is so creepy, and also really not all that shocking. Where are the checks and balances these days? How come this shit can just happen?

]]> Carollani http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/even_scarier#c804008 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/even_scarier#c804008 Politics Thu, 13 Sep 2007 10:37:27 -0800 Comment by Julie The name "Protect America Act" gives me the willies even worse than the "Patriot Act". Who names this stuff? They may as well call it the "Scary Terrorists are Going to Eat Your Babies so Just Let Us Do Whatever We Want Act".

]]> Julie http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/even_scarier#c804029 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/even_scarier#c804029 Politics Thu, 13 Sep 2007 10:56:51 -0800 Comment by Dianna Well, they tried out the "Slavery=Freedom Act" but Laura informed the administration that Orwell already used the term,

]]> Dianna http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/even_scarier#c804059 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/even_scarier#c804059 Politics Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:23:12 -0800 Comment by Gitai @3 With purely foreign communications, you don't need American permission. That's just good old fashion espionage. It's not generally technically legal, but everyone does it. What they need authorization for is to intercept foreign communications that come across American soil. Given the nature of the internet, that's every VOIP, chat, and e-mail in the world. I'm not so sure I can be all that concerned about this, so much as communications that originate or terminate in the US.

]]> Gitai http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/even_scarier#c804090 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/even_scarier#c804090 Politics Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:38:21 -0800 Comment by dead horse but they wrote it on their blog so it doesn't really count.

]]> dead horse http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/even_scarier#c804132 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/even_scarier#c804132 Politics Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:13:21 -0800 Comment by Phil M Carollani wrote:

That is so creepy, and also really not all that shocking. Where are the checks and balances these days? How come this shit can just happen?

I believe that the reasons it can and does happen include:

  • most Americans are conveniently distracted with professional sports and celebrity gossip (see: "Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media")
  • media self-censorship is rampant (see: Project Censored)
  • people are kept in fear by the over-hyped threat of terrorist activity similar to the way they were kept in fear by the over-hyped threat (to all but the wealthy, anyway) of communism
  • those of us who try to bring these issues to the attention of our friends and neighbors are denigrates as "conspiracy theorists"
]]> Phil M http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/even_scarier#c804219 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/even_scarier#c804219 Politics Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:11:04 -0800 Comment by Phil M denigrated, dammit. Are we ever going to be able to edit commets on here? Just for, say, five minutes after posting? Grrrr.

]]> Phil M http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/even_scarier#c804229 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/even_scarier#c804229 Politics Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:16:51 -0800 Comment by Will in Seattle Yes, and certain segments of it were operational even before then.

Which part of Above The Law don't you get about their modus operandi?

]]> Will in Seattle http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/even_scarier#c804281 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/even_scarier#c804281 Politics Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:44:22 -0800 Comment by Bison I don't think you're presenting the issue accurately here. Unnamed senior American officials apparently called bullshit on McConnell's inaccurate claim about the Protect America Act. They said that the German intelligence was collected "under" or "pursuant to" (depending on who you read) the as-yet-unmodified FISA. Your conjecture does not square with this seemingly deliberate choice of words.

]]> Bison http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/even_scarier#c804548 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/even_scarier#c804548 Politics Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:57:18 -0800