Slog - Comments on "Condos Don't Force People to Live in Them." http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them Eric de Place over at Sightline calls attention to an annoying trend in writing about density: The tendency reporters have to treat dense developments, like condos and apartments, as if they, by their mere existence, force people to live in tiny, crowded spaces. One such example, he writes, comes from today's Seattle P-I: "Now, condominiums are building upward, packing people into to what used to be inexpensive property." Now this is weird. Admittedly, I don't get out a lot, but I've never seen condos roaming the streets, rounding up suburban residents, and stuffing the poor saps into boxes. I've always... Copyright 2008 Thu, 20 Sep 2007 17:12:48 -0800 Fri, 21 Sep 2007 14:57:29 -0800 http://www.movabletype.org/?v=3.34 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Comment by Suz I love condos and have lived in them for years, by choice. I currently life in one on the Eastside. I would love to buy one of the new downtown condos but I am unwilling to pay the price.

]]> Suz http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808348 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808348 City Thu, 20 Sep 2007 17:16:17 -0800 Comment by Will in Seattle My "condo" or townhouse has more square feet of useable space (not including the yard) than my prior house did.

My brother's million dollar apartment in NYC would fit in my kitchen.

]]> Will in Seattle http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808355 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808355 City Thu, 20 Sep 2007 17:27:32 -0800 Comment by Bill Stickers Wasn't the Stranger just trying to assert that condos caused increases in gay bashing?

]]> Bill Stickers http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808362 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808362 City Thu, 20 Sep 2007 17:47:06 -0800 Comment by You_Gotta_Be_Kidding_Me I wish one of the new downtown condos would force me to live in it... Escala are you listening?

]]> You_Gotta_Be_Kidding_Me http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808363 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808363 City Thu, 20 Sep 2007 17:51:00 -0800 Comment by JMR A similar usage, de Place writes, is the tendency to as if some outside force is “packing” people together (e.g., “Packing people together creates problems…”). Both usages show contempt for the choice to live in a dense community—as if the people who choose to buy condos instead of single-family houses are subject to some outside force they can’t control.

I agree that the verbiage above shows contempt, but city types often show a similar contempt for people that choose the suburbs/fence/yard/commute lifestyle... that everyone in places like Monroe and Black Diamond would just love to live in a condo in Belltown, but it's just too expensive and those greedy developers keep building relatively inexpensive housing in the suburbs and people just can't resist.

(I am a city type.)

]]> JMR http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808369 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808369 City Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:02:38 -0800 Comment by me What's a bit off-putting to me, however, is that many of the pro-condo pundits or builders don't actually live in them. They have their reasons, of course. The same reasons everyone else has: a) kids b) wants a garden/workshop c) single-family homes are a better investment d) other reasonable reasons.

]]> me http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808379 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808379 City Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:22:18 -0800 Comment by chuckles mmmmm i'd love it someone forced me to have $300,000 to spare for a city condo. until then, i'm cruelly forced to live in a city apartment. cry cry cry

those poor bastards who are forced to live in single family homes averaging a half million dollars also have my sympathies. it's a real bitch to have to spend tens of thousands of dollars on two cars worthy of your commute.

on second thought, i think i'll save my sympathies and my empathies for people with real problems, instead of people with real inconveniences.

]]> chuckles http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808390 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808390 City Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:41:54 -0800 Comment by jump The total lack of understanding as to our region's affordable housing problem always astounds me on these posts.

This idea that everyone in Auburn that has a job in Bellevue, is somehow just making a choice between a $700,000 new Dwelling Company brownstone on Bellevue Way and a $220,000 single family home in Auburn is really astounding.

]]> jump http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808398 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808398 City Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:11:46 -0800 Comment by giffy Thats the thing. You don't encourage density by building condos. The demand already has to be there. You encourage density by making cities livable, or conversely cheap.

]]> giffy http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808403 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808403 City Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:42:42 -0800 Comment by Issur Sam Israel, Seattle developer knew how to make money off Seattle Real Estate. He let his buildings run down for years. When he died he left 100 million for a foundation to finance education for Seattle's Jewish children and enhance culture and the environment in Israel.

Mr. Israel gained a reputation as a slum landlord because he refused to repair or improve his buildings, except for the roofs. His attitude was, lease it as it is, you fix it or move out, I don't care.

Now the goyium won't live downtown unless they have a granite toilet bowl to crap in. We could use a few Samuel Israels today.

The Stranger should do a piece on Sam Israel. He's an important Seattle Jew who shaped downtown more than any other man. He had Washington's largest private commercial-property holding.

If the idiot goyium want to pay millions to live in a Belltown shoebox, LET THEM! As long as the profits go to Jewish education in Seattle and to Israel.

]]> Issur http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808404 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808404 City Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:50:52 -0800 Comment by tree Goyium? Who the hell spells it that way? It's Goyim.

Oh, and Erica, Sightline is absolutely correct -- but for YOU to take issue with the way the PI writes about density, in light of the inaccurate, uninformed, and biased way you write about fixed-gear cycling, takes a lot of chutzpah.

]]> tree http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808417 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808417 City Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:44:17 -0800 Comment by where did issur come from Can we get an article on Seattle's apparently booming Jewish Supremacist community?

]]> where did issur come from http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808427 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808427 City Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:57:01 -0800 Comment by Sean Some free wisdom from an old hipster:

One day, after you've grown up a bit, and one by one your friends start getting pregnant and moving out of their apartments and condos into single family homes in various Seattle neighborhoods, you will suddenly find yourself desparate to follow suit.

Plan accordingly.

]]> Sean http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808429 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808429 City Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:05:35 -0800 Comment by Andrew Condos don't, maybe, but I was totally kidnapped by a townhome.

]]> Andrew http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808434 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808434 City Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:38:44 -0800 Comment by Suz I once had a studio apartment hit on me in a ladies bathroom in Georgetown.

]]> Suz http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808446 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808446 City Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:26:38 -0800 Comment by Bellevue Ave Im convinced Issur is just posing as a Jewish supremacist to make Jews appear wacky and stereotypical.

]]> Bellevue Ave http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808463 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808463 City Fri, 21 Sep 2007 03:03:12 -0800 Comment by Mr. Poe @2

A million dollar apartment, huh? Your brother must be really fucking stupid.

]]> Mr. Poe http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808479 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808479 City Fri, 21 Sep 2007 06:59:43 -0800 Comment by oneway What is it with ECB's kidnapping fixation? First she's kidnapped by Metro, hauled off to West Seattle. Now the condo issue is framed as an anthropomorphic kidnapping. Hmm. Kinky.

]]> oneway http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808480 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808480 City Fri, 21 Sep 2007 06:59:50 -0800 Comment by Toby I've lived in apartments a buildings all my life. I don't understand what this big deal is that some people are making about them. More or less, that's part of city life. If you don't like that, you pull up stakes and go live in the suburbs where you can buy a cheap house and commute into the city. It's just what you *do*, fer cryin' out loud.

]]> Toby http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808482 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808482 City Fri, 21 Sep 2007 07:11:55 -0800 Comment by Sto Note on Bellevue Ave @ 16:

I've been skipping his posts for some time. Not really sure what the point is of them.

If he's a troll, time to get a new schtick. It got old after the first day :)

]]> Sto http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808492 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808492 City Fri, 21 Sep 2007 07:53:19 -0800 Comment by mongo like slog Condos don't shoot people. Density does.
(fuzzy morning logic)

]]> mongo like slog http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808507 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808507 City Fri, 21 Sep 2007 08:46:55 -0800 Comment by violet Of course condos don't force people to live in them, but society does. Renters are often treated as being low class or sub-par because they choose not to buy overpriced property, regardless of it's configuration. You've got a bunch of young people here in Seattle who are feeling the pressure to buy something, ANYTHING, to build up that equity, dammit!! And for many who can't manage over a half a million for a home, a condo is the only solution, even if they will be struggling under the weight of that mortgage to live somewhere while dreaming of something else.
Another thing I'm noticing about condos is that to a certain degree, they're just another trend. This year's dalmation puppy if you will. Yeah, maybe there is a demand for them right now, because people can't afford houses, or because they are being marketed as the cool, hip place to live, but what happens when people tire of living in tiny little boxes with very little access to outside, sharing their very walls with how many other people? Or when they decide they want kids, or pets?
Condos are pretty permanent. What do we do when the demand is for houses again? Create more waste by tearing down perfectly good condos to build them?

]]> violet http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808540 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808540 City Fri, 21 Sep 2007 09:24:04 -0800 Comment by NaFun Is there some sort of law that people with kids or pets can't live in condos?

]]> NaFun http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808665 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808665 City Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:45:31 -0800 Comment by keshmeshi @22,

I wouldn't worry about that. No apartments, co-ops, or condos have been torn down in New York. When New Yorkers decide to start a family, they either make do with what they have or move to New Jersey or Long Island. Young newcomers are more than happy to take their place. The same will happen here.

]]> keshmeshi http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808758 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c808758 City Fri, 21 Sep 2007 11:11:47 -0800 Comment by violet Wow, so now if you get tired of living in a condo, you have to move to the suburbs?
Ew. Just ew.
And I have no idea what the laws are regarding kids and pets in condos because I refuse to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to live in an apartment.

]]> violet http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c809165 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/condos_dont_force_people_to_live_in_them#c809165 City Fri, 21 Sep 2007 14:57:29 -0800