Comments on "You're Going to West Seattle."
I know this runs against type for me, but I've got to side with Metro on this one.
If I'm riding a southbound bus that is, in the least bit, strange and I need to get off near Pioneer Square, I always ask the driver, "What's your last stop downtown?" Or, "Could you make the last stop downtown?" I know to do this because I know that the bus is not a taxi, and it's not safe nor is it fair to the other passengers to make arbitrary, extra stops.
There are a heck of a lot of unreasonable expectations Metro makes on passengers, but this is not one of them.
Erica C. Barnett: hater of dogs the babies of bus drivers.
I know this runs against type for me, but I've got to side with Metro on this one.
If I'm riding a southbound bus that is, in the least bit, strange and I need to get off near Pioneer Square, I always ask the driver, "What's your last stop downtown?" Or, "Could you make the last stop downtown?" I know to do this because I know that the bus is not a taxi, and it's not safe nor is it fair to the other passengers to make arbitrary, extra stops.
There are a heck of a lot of unreasonable expectations Metro makes on passengers, but this is not one of them.
many people have taken the same ride. i have taken the same ride.
they are not allowed to let you off except at bus stops. it is a metro policy. as goes for everyone else in murka, they don't make the rules, they just have to follow them to the letter or its their ass.
Gaaah -- I was in the same situation a few months ago. Stopped at the curb (for about 10 minutes, mind you) with no means of exiting the bus. Ended up on Marginal Way and had to pay a $15 cab fare to make it back to downtown.
Sorry for the double past @1 and @3. Actually, if I'm going to P-Square, the first thing I would ask the driver is, "Are you going to Pioneer Square?" You get the idea.
Wow, sorry you were inconvenienced by the bus driver adhering to Metro policy. To perpetuate a tired but oh-so relevant joke, it sounds like the waaahmbulance arrived in time, though.
There's an emergency pull on the back door the bus. No need to sit at the curb, frustrated and trapped. You can let yourself off the bus.
I am STILL waiting for the Stranger to hold that public forum with bus riders and Metro Officials to have at it one of these nights.
I would PAY to see the fist fights that would break out!!!
Ha ha - made you go to West Seattle.
Now you see how much it sucks to use public transport in and out of West Seattle, don't you?
By the way, did you take the 22 back, the one that goes under the bridge along First Ave and takes forever, or to save time did you brave the Viaduct again on the 54/55?
erica you are so wrong on this one. do you have any idea how many people try to get off in random places?
jesus christ. know what bus you are riding.
Ha ha, you don't how to ride the bus.
Yeah, it does suck to end up in a situation like that, but I side with the driver too (although I'm sure he could have spoken a little more clearly when announcing the stop). I've been told by Metro drivers that not only are they risking their jobs to let you off at a non-stop, but they can also be ticketed (not Metro, the driver) for doing so.
I ride Metro a lot, and notice that everyone is nice and sweet to the drivers (who doesn't say "thank you" when they get off the bus here?) except for when they are personally inconvenienced, then they get all pissy. Usuallly, it's not the drivers fault, but they bear the brunt of said rider's anger.
not familiar with the 11? but you got on anyways? it always helps to know where the bus is going prior to entrance. it's not a taxi after all.
Technically they were following regulations, but I just love that law-abiding citizens going about their day seem to get the shaft on Metro, while the mentally disturbed, drug addicts, gang-bangers and general disreputes get the run of the bus. I understand that they often don't enforce rules when confronted by such people because of safety, but then your average Jane or Joe gets attitude for a seemingly minor request. Seems upside down.
Ah, a bit of humble pie for one of Seattle's top transitphiles.
As others have said, these buses only stop at bus stops for a good reason... people will be asking to get off at all sorts of places if the bus driver has any choice on where to stop.
One of the beauties of automobile travel... goes where you want, stops where you want.
@14: Yeah, wouldn't it be nice if you did know where the bus was going before you got on? But good luck with that. Metro doesn't believe in route maps.
And everybody else, yes, it'd be annoying if drivers let people off any-which-way, but it's a little different if the next stop is 2 blocks or West Seattle.
This is exactly the kind of thing that makes people hesitant to ride the bus. No one should have to be a Metro expert just to get around town.
Yeah, Metro sucks! I like to travel, and no matter what country I go to I make a point to at some time take public transportation, usually to get to and from the airport and often to get to events. I feel like you get more of an idea of a country if you travel in the same mode of transport as the locals.
What gets me about Metro is that you have to already know everything in order to ride it, and you have to learn from experience. There is no information provided to you. I'm especially sensitive of this because when I travel I usually don't speak the language of my destination. I have to figure everything about by maps, guidebooks and helpful drivers. But here, you're on your own. Here are some things that might confuse a visitor who doesn't speak English.
-Why do busses with the same numbers go different places? (5, 5 Express, 5 Northgate, 5 Shoreline)
-Why is there no schedule or map at this stop? Is the bus even still running?
-Why does this bus stop service before the 2:00 am when bars close?
-Why doesn't the bus driver know other routes, street names, the city?
-This is my stop, I'm at the back of the bus, I'm next to a door, but the door doesn't open. But why doesn't it open? Why are we moving? Why have I just missed this stop?
And so on and so forth. I witnessed a Chinese woman who knew no English, get whisked off to North Seattle instead of downtown because she didn't know she was on an express. No amount of pleading in her own language would sway the driver. Who knows how she ended up back home where she needed to be. And no one (including myself) did anything to persuade the driver. It really is cruel.
Bus drivers = assh*oles
Bus riders = losers
No bus for me anymore. 20+ years as a bus rider was enough for me.
Yeah, you know what? You're full of shit, Erica. Seriously. It's not just against regulations, it's against their insurance requirements and every other damn thing. In the stop zone he's covered. Out of the stop zone, he's not; if you tripped on the sidewalk and skinned your knee, that driver would've made himself and metro liable by granting your appallingly egocentric request. You were asking him to risk his job for your convenience. And then you get pissy about it afterward and whine about it on the slog? Well aren't you just the speciallest little princess in Special Town. People like you are every service industry worker's nightmare: some asshole with a sense of entitlement two sizes bigger than her sense of decency who takes it upon herself to fuck some guy's life up because she didn't get what she wanted. Not that he did anything wrong -- not that he wasn't doing exactly what his job description, his company policy and the law required him to do -- just that YOU, Ms. Special Princess, didn't get what you wanted. Because, I might add, you were too wrapped up in your own shit to pay attention to what was going on around you.
Special, special special.
Fuck sake.
And by the way -- that light rail you're so excited about? Also not going to let you off wherever the fuck you want. Prepare yourself now, so you don't go fucking up anyone else's life with your enormous fucking ego.
No. 10: Took the 54. It was fast once it got there.
No. 11: Dude, I can't familiarize myself with every single bus route in the city. I ride everywhere. That's a lot of routes.
It is pretty ingenuous to suggest that it is okay with Metro if you "Want to shit, pee, throw up, sell drugs, have sex, or carry bags of trash on a Metro bus." But okay, you were exaggerating. Still, how exactly do you propose Metro take care of the "shitting on bus" problem. That is actually kind of a hard problem to solve. What exactly do you suggest - the bus driver should enforce the no sex policy more often? He or she is kind of busy driving the bus... more plainclothes police? Bigger font on the warning signs?
On another note, maybe I am just out of it, but I swear people on slog really exaggerate this type of stuff - I spent 20 years riding metro and didn't encounter sex or shitting (although I smelt shit). The buses really are not that bad; just slow (except when they are too fast - that is, when you want to get off!)
I mean, sure, if we were in the middle of the road, or in motion, or blocking other traffic—or if there had been another stop in the actual city of Seattle—I could understand the strict adherence to Metro rules.
West Seattle is part of "the actual city of Seattle."
#17---There are plenty of route maps...online! the bus works best when you let it be what it is...not try to make it what it is not.
I ride the bus (twice) everyday...and i fucking hate it. it amuses me to no end when i see people get shafted and screwed over by the bus..left behind, brought to the wrong place...becuase i have been shafted and screwed over so many times it gives me pleasure to see others get the same (if not worse) treatment.
the bus: bringing us together...in misery!
"I'm not familiar with the 11 route."
Hey Erica:
I'm not familiar with the 11 route either, but I carry around at all times Metro's free map of every bus line in King County, so I know where every bus is going.
Getting from one place to another is *my* responsibility, and not Metro's. The bus driver was doing what he had been instructed to do, no more and no less.
If you insist on being so anti-car, and insist on using alternate modes of transportation, please spare us these tedious recitations of your incompetence.
Count me on the "driver was just doing his job" side.
@17, 18 - you see those little pamphlets next to the driver? That little rack of pamphlets at the transit hubs? The ones with the route numbers on them? They have route maps, and when I started riding Metro they provided all the necessary information I needed to get ride in reasonably simple little charts.
And while it's regrettable that the rowdy and fucked-up get their run of the bus, I chalk that up to our passive-aggressive mindset that's too chickenshit to say "shut the fuck up or get off the bus", but angry enough to bitch about it on the Slog.
metro could be samtrans. so be thankful.
I have a question, since the driver could not stop why is it at night the driver has the discretion to make un-assigned stops at the riders request? (suprised no one brought that little bit of triva up yet)
Maps! Maps! Get yer maps here!
"I'm not familiar with the 11 route."
Hey Erica:
I'm not familiar with the 11 route either, but I carry around at all times Metro's free map of every bus line in King County, so I know where every bus is going.
Getting from one place to another is *my* responsibility, and not Metro's. The bus driver was doing what he had been instructed to do, no more and no less.
If you insist on being so anti-car, and insist on using alternate modes of transportation, please spare us these tedious recitations of your incompetence.
@28. the late night one is an exception to the rule
@28
I believe that is for safety's sake, so the one person riding the bus that time of night can have a shorter, safer walk to their destination.
That's late at night, when very few people will make the request and staying on-time is not as much of an issue.
As always, it depends on the driver and the route. I got off the bus pretty regularly when we were stopped, sometimes even just at long lights.
There was no route map. I looked for it. And the driver was a "she," not a "he." Oh, and I was trying to get downtown,so I hopped on a bus heading downtown. Online trip planning only works when the buses arrive on time, which, most of the time, they don't. As for wanting to get off wherever I want--that's not what I said. In most cases, I would just get off at the next stop (including if I got on an express bus accidentally). This bus, however, went all the way to West Seattle. That's a long way to go, and the driver was at no risk letting me off. Frankly, yelling at me while driving 50mph on the viaduct seems far more dangerous to everyone.
Everyone agrees with the bus driver, and not the spoiled, lazy, pseudo-intellectual hipster. So do I.
@23: EXACTLY.
Which is why I sometimes find it offensive that if it doesn't happen in the Cap Hill/Downtown/Belltown box, some at The Stranger think we can eat shit, particularly when it comes to transport.
my husband tried to meet me at REI last week, and ended up in Marysville. It took him 2 hours to get back, but he did not blame the bus driver. It would have been simple to ask, "What's your last stop before the highway?"
Anyway, after it was over we had a laugh and did some shopping.
this was an unfortunate situation. however, the bus driver has no reason to let you out nor is it safe to drop passengers at undesignated locations. it's a little like when you're taking a greyhound bus and it happens to pass by or near your house, or near a transit stop you'll need to get home. you can't just say, hey, let me off here. public transit doesn't work that way. i agree, though, that it sucks. it is part and parcel of not owning a car or choosing not to use it to commute long-distance. it's the adventure of displacement. it's happened to me plenty.
ECB - It must have seemed like a good idea to find sympathy by posting your plight on Slog, but the problem is that you are very very wrong.
#23 - West Seattle is not part of Seattle. It is part of the suburb of West Seattle. You too Magnolia.
I get the irony, but I'm also on the driver's side here. I do, however, agree in regards to drivers announcing the stops. Some drivers are great at it, and enunciate each stop very well. Others mumble. Some don't bother with it at all. Add in the occasional crappy microphone (or driver who either turns the volume way down or doesn't speak clearly into the mic), and it's just not a good idea to rely on drivers' announcements.
But come on. I ride unfamiliar routes all the time, and I've rarely had any problems reaching my destination, because I either 1) research what bus route will be the best one online (including planning what time I need to catch the bus) 2) ask the driver if they're going where I'm going when I get on the bus or otherwise let them know I'm looking for a specific stop 3) sit somewhere I can see clearly where the bus is headed and pay attention in case it starts going somewhere unexpected.
OTOH, I've also seen drivers let people on/off buses between stops. Rarely, but it does happen. Never downtown, though.
Ooo, the outrage! How dare the universe not arrange itself for your convenience!
I hope you keep copies of all your Slog posts so someday you can read them again when you've grown up a little.
@20: Erica C. is indeed the specialest little princess in Special Town. And we wouldn't have it any other way.
#23 - West Seattle is not part of Seattle. It is part of the suburb of West Seattle. You too Magnolia.
My property tax bill disagrees with you. I'm all for a secession movement, should such a thing come up, but for now West Seattle is part of Seattle.
Nice story. Love some of the comments, too.
Erica, I'm suprised you didn't try one of the well-documented, successful techniques for getting what you wanted out of your Metro experience. The Stranger has painstakingly documented a number of methods for getting what you want from Metro.
For example, you could have shouted, "Bullshit on this! I'm leaving right fucking now!" and forced your way out the door. Or, you could have taken the time-honored route of popping open one of the emergency exit windows and jumped to the sidewalk.
Others have shown us the way to get what we want from our Metro experiences. It's up to us to take this knowledge and the techniques they've developed and put them to use.
There are many drivers who will bend the rules for passengers, particularly in these kinds of situations. They're also typically the best drivers on Metro. And I have to say, I'm sick of drivers who either mumble the next stop or refuse to announce them altogether.
#43 No it's not. It's part of unincorporated King County.
@23: EXACTLY.
Which is why I sometimes find it offensive that if it doesn't happen in the Cap Hill/Downtown/Belltown box, some at The Stranger think we can eat shit, particularly when it comes to transport.
West Seattle is "in the actual city of Seattle". In fact, it's one of the better parts.
West Seattle is "in the actual city of Seattle". In fact, it's one of the better parts.
Maybe you should get a little hipster Vespa instead so we don't have to listen to you bitch and moan about how public transit does not conform to your personal needs and desires.
If you can't bother to pick up one of the little timetable/route maps that sit at the front of the bus you really have nothing to complain about.
@46: West Seattle, north of Roxbury is part of the City of Seattle (and in some parts a bit south of Roxbury as well).
Maybe if we weren't part of the City we too could feed at the Sound Transit trough and get something out of it other than B.S.
@46.
Come on, we all know that West Seattle is part of Seattle from the tip of Alki to Admiral Way. Then the unincorporated part of King County starts.
>>Frankly, yelling at me while driving 50mph on the viaduct seems far more dangerous to everyone.
Wasn't she just yelling *back* at you? You were creating a potentially dangerous situation, not her.
And wasn't it also you moaning on Slog about disabled people causing delays on your regular bus route? Maybe you're not as pro-transit as you think you are.
Dear Ms. Barnett,
Thank you for visiting Downtown Seattle. Downtown Seattle offers a wide variety of shops, restaurants, and a vibrant nightlife. Downtown also offers excellent bus service. However, you should know buses downtown often:
1) get on the Viaduct and go to West Seattle and Highline
2) get on I-5 and go to Timbuktu and locations beyond Timbuktu
We hope your next downtown shopping experience will be more pleasurable, keeping in mind these minor details!
Sincerely,
The Downtown Seattle Association
@50: Somehow I doubt we'd see ECB on a Vespa. Riding a two-stroke scooter that trails a blue cloud isn't very green. Sure looks kewl, though.
I think it's funny that she's always preaching about how people should take transit so we can demolish the Viaduct, but when she actually tries practicing what she preaches, all she does is complain about how inconvenient it is.
Josh @38 is on point. Safety and homogeneity of the route is what is most important. It is an unfortunate ride. Alas, I too am one of the fingers that has been burned twice by such a match. I have let the zen wash over me and I enjoy a ride to West Seattle. The right side has the best views. LTM
West Seattle is a separate city.
Those of us who ride those routes regularly hate those of you who yell and scream at the driver to let them off at the onramp to the viaduct. Get a clue and be responsible for yourself. I still love you though!
A little planning goes a long way - and the above link will include multiple routes to get to your destination (so if a particular bus is late, you know your options).
You said the driver was yelling at you while going 50mph on the Viaduct... can I assume that this wasn't a one-way conversation? Is it really safe to pester the driver while he's driving that fast?
Dear Ms. Barnett,
Thank you for shopping in Downtown Seattle. Downtown Seattle offers a wide variety of shops, restaurants, and a vibrant nightlife. Downtown also offers excellent bus service. However, you should know buses downtown often:
1) get on the Viaduct and go to West Seattle and Highline
2) get on I-5 and go to Timbuktu and locations beyond Timbuktu
We hope your next downtown shopping experience will be more pleasurable, keeping in mind these minor details!
Sincerely,
The Downtown Seattle Association
Imagine if Erica missed the last downtown stop on, say, the #16 bus.
Erica: "I want to get off now".
Driver: "You're going to Wallingford."
Erica: "I don't want to go to Wallingford, I want to go somewhere in the actual city of Seattle."
West Seattle is a separate city.
I once saw a bus driver let someone out at an intersection only to be immediately hit by a passing biker. It was not pretty. Like others have said, the policy is there for a reason.
I wish the bus maps showed all the stops on each route - or that at least there was a place to get them... Especially with the changes since the tunnel closed, I have a hell of a time figuring everything out the first few rides. Sometimes even when you know where it's going you never know where it's going to stop.
I'd hate to be a bus driver - stuck between so many rules and so many nasty people with very little power. We should try to be nicer to the actual people while trying to address changes in the big nasty systems.
You know, if we'd just built a monorail or elevated light rail system with one-tenth of the money we're wasting on resurfacing I-5, this wouldn't be a problem.
Just saying.
#57 Believe me, West Seattle is a suburb. Greg Nickels lives there.
why didn't YOU shit on the bus? he would of kicked you off then and there.
#57 Believe me, West Seattle is a suburb. Greg Nickels lives there.
touché.
Someone wants off the bus; driver lets him off. Rider does something dumb and blames Metro. Metro gets sued, and we have to go to endless public hearings on why the bus is so unsafe. Driver loses job.
Or:
Rider sucks it up, gets off the bus at 35th and Avalon, crosses the street at the light, and gets on one of the numerous rides that are expresses to downtown. No one else in inconvenienced.
In my experience of living in West Seattle for 8 years, and commuting to downtown for much of that, never once did the driver fail to mention the last stop at 1st and Columbia. I mean, it's bad enough that drivers of the 10 and 12 made me late for work because they had to give every yahoo tourist directions all the way up the hill, or get a damned espresso in that movie theater in the old Masons's hall.
It took until almost 1 in the afternoon to post this event from the previous night? Could this be a fabrication because of low comments on recent slogs?
ECB did ride a scooter but the city unfairly didn't let her park it wherever she wanted and even insisted she pay the monorail tabs - they had to garnish her wages to collect that transit tax.
Damn, I sucked in and gave her another commenter point.
I've gotten off where there wasn't a bus stop once before, when I accidentally got on an express and we were stuck in quite a lot of traffic. Some metro drivers bend the rules, some don't. It seems to me that drivers have a fair amount of room to make their own decisions about stuff like this -- I've seen lots of them stop for people running for the bus even if they've left the stop already, I've seen them let other people off who got on the express accidentally -- lots of times. I can understand why some would want to stick by the rules, but lots of them don't.
Nickels lives in a suburb of West Seattle.
@44: I mistakenly read this: "Or, you could have taken the time-honored route of popping open one of the emergency exit windows and jumped to the sidewalk"
as
"POOPING open one of the emergency exit windows..."
Sure, it didn't make sense, but darn it if it didn't make me giggle.
Google: "The bus goes when the doors close" and see if you are surprised that he didn't stop for you ;)
So, what is that phrase?
Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part. Or on Metro's, or on the other passengers.
You've got to get some responsibility, plan ahead and know where you're going and better yet when you need to get off. And pay attention. No one is going to hold your hand anymore, you're an adult.
Yes, that sounds inconvenient and tiresome. However, the mistake was YOURS, don't try and blame the driver.
From http://www.westseattle.com
"During the next few months, we will be hi-lighting [sic] the 100th Anniversary of West Seattle's Annexation to Seattle."
If Seattle actually were a first class city - say like Amsterdam - the buses would have a side door specifically for passengers. Inside a nice lady or other person (who is NOT driving) takes your fare and dispenses transit information should you need it. Only in Amurrica, do we expect our bus drivers to be tour guides, change-makers, psychiatrists and behavior enforcement officers - plus drive the bus and not kill anyone. If you think you're fitted for such a challenging job, plus acting Seattle nicey-nice, I'm sure Metro (and heaven) has a place for you.
This is classic -- talk about Karma biting you in the ass, eh ECB? You idiots got what you deserve.
Why go all the way to Uwajimaya for a FlexCar -- was that the only place you could rent your precious Mini??
Deconstructing ECB - Maybe she really isn't mad about the driver not letting her off, but she's mad AT THE VIADUCT itself and she doesn't realize she is unfairly projecting her activism at a powerless cog in the machine.
Or, on the other hand, maybe lashing out at this bus driver (and telling us all about it) is just another subversive - but conscious - element of her campaign to rid the city of the scourge of the Viaduct...after all it doesn't have bus stops conveniently placed at 3 block intervals! I'm just saying...
Uh, the route 11 runs between downtown and Madison Park. Despite the crack observations of ace reporter ECB, the route 11 doesn't go anywhere near the viaduct entrance, much less West Seattle.
Probably she was riding the peak hour West Seattle route 21, which is clearly marked "EXPRESS via Alaska Way Viaduct."
Doh!!
There are these great little maps up at the front of each bus that show the bus route. They're actually free...you don't have to pay extra for them. Use them. They are even generally correct. As has already been said, if you don't know the bus route ask the driver where you want to get off. Don't sit at the back if you need to hear announcements. Don't get on a bus if you don't know where it's going. Why did you get on a bus that you admit you're not familiar with without familiarizing yourself with it? Metro is not a taxi service that will stop wherever you want to stop.
Will -- you still enjoying Hempfest?? As usual, I can't figure out WTF are you talking about...
I-5 Expansion joints/paving:
$15.5 Million
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/I5/SpokaneStreetBridgeRepair/
Monorail:
$1.5 Billion
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002181566_monorail16m.html
I was no match major, bur I think that pencils out to the monorail being 100x more expensive.
I'm just sayin'.
In the first-class city of Munich, you are on your own on public transportation, even in regards to paying, which is works on the honor system. There are, however, maps in all the stations and stops.
@62: Cool. If West Seattle is separate, let's get our fingers in the Sound Transit pie. Everyone else has, and we'd have a better shot at getting some real transit options out here.
Then again, I can't remember the last story The Stranger has done out this way, so we must be non-existent.
@ 57 & 62
...no really, west Seattle has been part of the city of Seattle for 100 years.. really...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Seattle,_Seattle,_Washington
@81: Actually the 11 sometimes(most of the time?) turns into another route that does go to West Seattle. It's in the schedules, but if you don't know, and aren't paying attention I could easily see this happening. Generally, if you get on a bus downtown and don't absolutely KNOW where it goes, ask the driver. But don't take all day about it. A simple "Where do you turn out of downtown?" is enough.
what are the southern borders of west seattle?
West Seattle is a separate city.
Not really, y'all need to bone up on your local history. West Seattle may have a history of unsuccessful attempts at succession, but really, it is the OLDEST part of Seattle:
"The founding of Seattle is usually dated from the arrival of the Denny Party on November 13, 1851 at Alki Point."
Growing up in W.S. I can tell you that, yeah, the transit sucks, doesn't it? You can wait for a loooong time. There were more frequent buses in the 80's when I was a kid then there is now.
I'm pretty sure the bus has a pull cord that rings a bell, and when that happens, the bus driver will stop and open the doors at the next stop. If you do this a little bit before the place where you'd like to be, you can get off in plenty of time before the bus heads to West Seattle.
Sheesh. Furrfu. Even car drivers are happy to walk a block or two downtown.
#89 You are wrong. The Denny party spent 6 horrible months on Alki before they abandoned its bitter shores for the comfort and better bus routes of Pioneer Square. Seattle was founded from there.
Oh Erica dear - did you have to use the brown word? After all, a true lady never swears....
I have to side with Erica on this one - the driver should have announced the last stop downtown more effectively.
2 weeks ago, I got on a #10 signed "First Hill via Downtown" at Pike and 12th. I needed to go to Boren and Madison and had my cats in a carrier with me, so I wasn't walking! I get on the bus, and at 1st and Madison, he asks me and another rider why we're still on his bus. What? He said he was going back to the base and that his sign said "downtown". The other passenger and I disagreed, and told him his sign said "First Hill" - he looked up, and yep, he'd punched in the wrong code. He dropped us off a block past the bus stop and the other passenger and I (with the cats) walked up to 2nd and Marion to get the next bus.
Now, that bus driver could've said nothing and forced us to go the bus terminal and he could've not let us off a block past his last stop. But he didn't, he was nice and apologetic for his mess up. It scares me to think that most of you feel that I should've had to go the bus terminal in SoDo and then try to find a bus back downtown while carrying my 2 cats because the bus driver didn't call out his last stop, and he had the signs on his bus wrong!
I have to side with Erica on this one - the driver should have announced the last stop downtown more effectively.
2 weeks ago, I got on a #10 signed "First Hill via Downtown" at Pike and 12th. I needed to go to Boren and Madison and had my cats in a carrier with me, so I wasn't walking! I get on the bus, and at 1st and Madison, he asks me and another rider why we're still on his bus. What? He said he was going back to the base and that his sign said "downtown". The other passenger and I disagreed, and told him his sign said "First Hill" - he looked up, and yep, he'd punched in the wrong code. He dropped us off a block past the bus stop and the other passenger and I (with the cats) walked up to 2nd and Marion to get the next bus.
Now, that bus driver could've said nothing and forced us to go the bus terminal and he could've not let us off a block past his last stop. But he didn't, he was nice and apologetic for his mess up. It scares me to think that most of you feel that I should've had to go the bus terminal in SoDo and then try to find a bus back downtown while carrying my 2 cats because the bus driver didn't call out his last stop, and he had the signs on his bus wrong!
81: The 11 turns into the 125 to White Center. So yes, it does go to West Seattle.
No. 82: As I said above, they were out of route maps.
@ 93 & 94 - this is not the same thing as ECB's experience at all. I'm sure if Erica's bus were heading to the bus terminal, the driver would have said something, as happened with your driver, and she could have gotten off. And as you say, your driver made a mistake by putting the wrong sign on their bus, so it's not surprising s/he was trying to correct it a bit for you.
I think people would be more sympathetic to ECB's experience if she didn't have such an illustrious history of posting how awful the bus is everytime it's any less convenient than driving a car. Plus, I can't help but think if this happened to someone else on her regular route to work, we'd be getting a post about how people who can't be bothered to figure out the proper route shouldn't be allowed to ride buses, because their conversations with the driver increase her commute time, make her late for work, and if Metro doesn't do something about it she's going to be forced (forced!) to drive a car everywhere from now on. maybe two cars at the same time!
You know what? You make that kind of rookie mistake only once.
I once caught a bus to lake city way in the bus tunnel because it had a "7" in it and I assume it was one of the 70's to the U District. I'm just glad I didn't wind up up in Everett or "Mud-lake bvld" or something - some of those buses go a *long* way before making their next stop.
All you can do is smile and make sure you pay attention the next time you get on the bus.
Pro-Tip: You can pretty much assume all buses on 1st besides the 10/12 go on the viaduct. I am fairly confident I won't get screwed riding on anything on 3rd but 2nd ave buses seem to be the crazy "beaver-dam prky." buses that will land in Black Diamond for their next stop.
And by the way... people that rag on the working stiff are assholes. That driver was doing their job.
It is Metro's policy to not let people off the bus anywhere they damn well want. Maybe you should have wasted all this bandwidth and actually *informed* people about "I fucked up... here is how *not* to fuck up yourself". You know... educate instead of bash.
In re: Comment #78 -
How about putting the Public Intern on a bus for a day to act as an information font in place of the driver? Yelling out stops, giving tourists directions, etc. At least the driver would then only have to worry about operating a vehicle the size of a building.
From Metro's web site:
Part Time Transit Operator (PTTO) Job #PTTO2006
Department of Transportation – Transit Division
$17.74 - $25.34 Hourly – Closes: Open Continuous
Note: Once you click onto the transit operator link, you will leave the Human Resources web site and enter the Transportation Department's web site.
And that's for an entry-level, part-time position. Hardly rich, but hardly "working stiff," either.
So Erica writes a post about a few breakdowns in bus communication and wishes that Metro drivers were empowered to make reasonable decisions, and -- am I getting this right? -- burning at the stake is too good for her.
Control freak: You shoulda gone online and memorized each stop. Man, who doesn't do that?
Apologist: Metro drivers can't do anything against regs (even though they clearly do, and often, just depends on which one you get).
Perfect world/what was the question?: Why didn't you look at the route map at the stop that wasn't there? Why didn't you look at the route map on the bus that wasn't there? Why did you assume the driver would be a) announcing things like last Seattle stop (on a working PA system)?
Maybe this is why nothing gets done in Seattle. When someone points out that a system doesn't fail gracefully, there's a personal responsibility pile-on. Which ignores a) the fact that no single person can match the suite of failures that a system is capable of providing, and b) the major point that ECB, as a transit rider/booster, has a substantial investment in an optimal transit system. If she, as a committed rider, finds the bus system frustrating, imagine what the barrier to entry is for a non-rider/newbie. Despite what the "I always carry a map" crowd seems to think, transit isn't a matrix to separate the canny, be-prepared bus riders from the herd. It's supposed to get a whole range of people from A to B, and in that regard, Metro falls down a lot as the person who commented about non-English speakers pointed out.
I don't know what to say about the people who think the whole thing hinges on whether West Seattle is part of Seattle or not. I'm not sure, but I don't think it shortens the distance you have to travel by bus either way.
$17.74 - $25.34 Hourly
And that's for an entry-level, part-time position. Hardly rich, but hardly "working stiff," either.
Hey you can get a cozy little condo in West Seattle on that wage! Although, you won't be able to afford a car, you'll have to ride the bus.
seriously, leave the poor working-to-feed-my-baby bus driver alone.
find something more meaningful in life and direct your energy towards THAT.
All the people saying that West Seattle and Magnolia are separate cities make me want to huff a kitten. I know those neighborhoods are part of Seattle AND I LIVE IN FUCKING ISSAQUAH!!! Has someone been handing out stupid pills?
The author of 100th comment gets a free years subscription.
That is a pretty good wage, at least once you get seniority. You take a significant amount of bullshit for that $17.74->$25.34/hr and you have to have skin as thick as cast iron. In other words, those dudes earn their money and I don't envy them in the slightest.
Suck it up and smile. As least you get a good view on your way into West Seattle. Had you wound up on "#294 Skunk-Tree Ln." you'd have about 30 minutes of I5 to look at before you discover exactly where "Skunk-Tree Ln." is.
While you are looking out the window, think about how nice it is that you have an education that allows you to sit in front of a computer all day dealing with assholes like me online instead of dealing with rude assholes in person. Somebody has to be the bus driver...
And to yet again follow up to myself... Metro could definitely use:
1) Automated announcements that read out the stop. This is work in progress and I've actually ridden on a 54 that was testing this system out several years ago.
2) LED displays - some of the buses have this, but most don't.
3) I have no idea about non-English and that is quite frankly laced with political implications (like, what language beside english?)
4) ADA stuff (addressed somewhat with #1 & #2)
I imagine all four of these things are planned for any of the new Bus Rapid Transit fleet as well as Link. This stuff requires funding to get retrofitted into the rest of Metro's fleet. Your goal/duty as a Stranger-Person is to not only inform the readership that these technologies exist and why they are good things, but what us common folk can do to help Metro put them on every bus.
oops, @83 - sorry - i meant the cross-base highway they're building in the wetlands to increase global warming.
my bad.
pps:
http://transit.metrokc.gov/am/vehicles/smartbus/smartbus.html
http://transit.metrokc.gov/am/vehicles/smartbus/smartbus-demoeval.html
also, looks like they are starting to bid the project out.
bo-ring.
STOP digging!
Paul Sommers' report from the Northwest Federation of Community Organizations, says the "livable wage" in Washington in 2004 for a single person, working fulltime, living alone is $10.77 per hour. (single person - THAT'S ECB, whom I bet considers herself a "working stiff" and whom I bet a nickel makes $5 to $10 more than 10.77/hr).
A single parent with one child needs $16.83....these figures are for Washington as a whole and they are from 2004.
We don't know that ECB's bus driver was a single parent, but people who tell complete strangers (no pun intended) that their job is "really important because they provide for a baby at home" tend to be single-parent families.
I'd say that the bus driver is a "working stiff" and ECB is a young urban professional...which was the bus driver's point, wasn't it?
I love that you bolded the part where you sound like a whiney, transplanted moron who doesn't realize where Seattle city limits are located.
@100
$40,000/yr? (And the position you listed was part time, so even less than that.) I'd say that's working stiff territory.
@111
Word.
If West Seattle is its own city, can Ballard be its own city too?
@104 is it true that Issaquah is part of Bellevue? the discussion of west seattle's citizenship is metaphorical sheeesh.
100+ comments for getting the wrong bus, or not getting off the bus... to the city (not) of West Seattle. Yes, very amusing and fascinating...
The driver's comments had nothing to do with class or wages or who was a yuppie and who wasn't. He just recognized The Stranger's celebrity writers, and he knows that if you got fired for fucking up at The Stranger, Erica would have been out of a job long ago. Unlike Metro, which has rules and standards.
Anyhoo, this is the best Slog post ever. I probably won't buy tickets to Hump, but I'd for sure pay good money to see video of ECB doing stupid things and then blaming others for it.
Think it over! You could raise some dough for a good cause.
re 118 - perhaps there's a Strangercrombie auction item in that idea!
In the tradition of Kathleen Wilson taking a cab to Ballard comes ECB's rocket science powered trip to the distant & fabled City of West Seattle...
/offtopic/ Are you the elenchos of adequacy fame? I've seen a robot slave on this forum too and I'm starting to wonder...
Dr. Martino Cortez, PhD, that is an excellent question. I think "fame" is a bit much though, but thank you.
I did this before, on my way back from lunch just a week after starting a new job in SODO. I wanted the 56 but got the 54, and ended up in West Seattle. I had to hop back on the next 56 into SODO and returned to work half an hour late. They fortunately understood. That was my fault for not paying attention to the schedules and realizing that the 54, 55 and 56 didn't all go to the same place.
Even if you should have been paying attention and should have gotten to know the route and planned ahead, ECB... the driver probably should have let it go and dropped you at the corner once you made yourself known. That she made it a point to drive you to West Seattle out of spite once she knew you had missed the last stop indicates an attitude problem on the driver's part.
THANK YOU #104!!
Good sir, I find it with great amusement and no surprise that the tree-hugging likes of Sir. Robot Slave and yourself would inhabit this den of dirty liberals. Why this entire AOL chatroom topic clearly demonstrates why my best are in Washington to grant access for the upper crust to circumnavigate this half-wit town via helicopter. While the citizens of this town may not get to "rise above it all", rest assured the wealthy such as myself will soon be able to. The irony is quite delicious.
It shall be duly noted that my servants suggest that the "#14 bus" as they call it is the best route to the oriental shopping mall known as "Uwajimaya". After all, were else can one acquire Sriracha in this two horse town?
Good day sirs.
but, it's only a town metaphorically - right, dear doctor...
Yeesh, I can't believe it took until #101.
The polite, kind thing to do, the thing that would be good for tourism and good for brother- and sisterhood and altogether good, would have been to let them off the bus. There are situations in which this is not the good thing to do, but this situation, where the bus was already stopped, where it would have held up everyone else only two seconds, the best thing was to let them off the bus.
And if the bus driver needed to blow off some steam after a bad day, the right way would have been verbal abuse.
#115 No. Ballard is part of Magnolia.
Just a quick observation here: it seems that so many of the people who disagree with Ms. Barnett are doing so in a rather unnecessarily mean-spirited way (#20, I'm looking at you. Even if you disagree, you sound like a total asshole). What's more, I'm amazed by the amount of energy that seems to be going into this vitriol.
Calm the hell down, everybody.
BTW, I think the driver should have let her off.
For all of the fun we're having here, laughing with and at the poster, she has brought out a few points about the joy that is riding Metro.
She boarded the #11 bus to downtown. According to the printed schedule, it arrives in downtown, and then magically becomes the #125, which goes from the Scoop Jackson building to West Seattle with no stops in between. You can read the #11 schedule until your eyes fall out, and nothing in it says "Second and Marion is the last stop until West Seattle." The design of the routes, maps, and schedules encourages riders to make mistakes like this. In design engineering, we have rules against letting such things happen, and we have to think about human factors when we design anything humans will use. In this case, Metro could publish only a combined 11/125 schedule, with a warning about the change in route and subsequent express routing. This would not require much money, just an adjustment in Metro's thinking. I have commuted via Metro daily for years, and I'm not waiting for such changes from them.
One additional comment: I've noticed that in Chicago the buses have both LED signs indicating the current and next stop, and very clear electronic announcements for these stops. I was amazed when I saw and heard this. I'm also amazed that we have to put up with crappy and/or poorly used PA systems on the buses here.
128. While I agree, her petulance doesn't do much to discourage such vitriol. It's not as if this venom, however unwarranted, is coming out of a vacuum.
Why the West Seattle hate? Some cool people live there.
While the "social contract" of bus behavior is that everyone get's off on their own accord, I side with ECB because I've been pinned on the back of the always packed muther-effing #36 and had to go past 2 stops before I could get out. Ridiculous. I'm in fierce agreement that Metro needs to get it's shit in a pile and address their design and rider levels. For example, the 36 bus (which, did I mention I hate, hate, haaaaaate?) - Metro has said that they will take our requests to add more buses (or hey, bigger buses) under consideration and nothing has changed with this $*%#$(ing route. I'm so frustrated with them, I now take cabs everywhere (*and yes, it's stupid and expensive, but at least I'm getting places on time and well rested).
Fellow peasants, we shouldn't have to climb over each other to get off on our stop, nor should we have to yell at old grannies and people in wheelchairs to move out of our way. There has to be a better way!!
#129 requests a valid addition to Metro bus schedules. But, in the schedule it does have a column to the right of the last time point and it says "To Route" 125. So, KCM does need a lot of help, but on this point, they do provide a clue, albeit cryptic. I'm an advocate of full disclosure - the 15, for instance, should say "West Seattle via Downtown via Ballard." Conversely, the 22 should say "Loyal Heights via Ballard via Downtown." Apparently all this occurred about a dozen years ago when KCM went to a "downtown centric" bus route model. It's probably time for that model to be seriously re-examined. It's long past time for the residents of King County to take another look at equal-area equity. For instance, if Seattle provides roughly 33 percent of the taxable residents and gets only 20 percent of the resultant transit service, is this equity?
I probably would have gotten down on my knees in front of all the passengers and driver and said, "please, please, let me off. I made a terrible mistake and didn't realize this bus went on the viaduct. Please, please." Maybe that would have worked, maybe not. I'd rate the drivers 4 to 1 in terms of bending over backwards to give folks a break. Perhaps Erica got the 1 in 4 who have their own axe to grind.
At that point, the 11 is actually the 125. (Why do they feel the need to do this? Nobody knows. The route doesn't change at all depending on the numbers, it just switches to the 11 when it leaves Chelan & Spokane to go downtown and switches back to the 125 around 9th & Pine.)
I ride that bus every single day and this same thing generally happens three out of five times that I'm on it heading south. Certain drivers will let people off, but generally, most don't.
Start screaming about your claustrophobia next time. The crazies always get what they want.
Waaaa! Too rainy today for your precious fucking bicycle?
Did you forget to mention that you asked the driver to let you off in a fucking lane of traffic? Oh didn't mention that did you? Once the 11 turns off 2nd it stays in the left most lane of Columbia - a three lane south bound one way street. I bet you would still blame the driver if you got hit by a passing car.
Did you ever think that being a dumb ass is your own fault?
@133 I used to ride the 36, but it's not Metro's fault it sucks. That route is overwhelmingly populated by loud, squawking Asians who never learned how to move back and let more people on this bus.
Wasn't Erica Barnett the same person who was bitching about handicapped riders on the 9?
Even if you disagree, you sound like a total asshole
Dude, I am a total asshole. That's not even up for debate.
My vitriolic attack on ECB in this post comes from the same place as my vitriol towards Dan for his pro-war past. Both ECB and Dan make part of their living taking strident positions on various issues. When they believe something they don't just argue their point -- they construct their arguments to suggest that their position is self-evident, then they use that to gain leverage on various straw-men: going to war is clearly the right thing to do, and if you can't see that you're an idiot who hates children. And the reason you can't see how right Dan and ECB are, it is usually explained, is that you're just too selfish to recognize the necessity of war/bikes/feminism/gay rights/whatever.
Which gets right up my ass, because both Dan and ECB are unabashedly motivated by their own selfish agendas. Dan wants straight people to care about gay rights, but spends tons of time bashing straight parents out of pique. Erica wants men to care about women's rights, but makes fantastically convoluted arguments to attribute behaviors she finds inappropriate to sexism and patriarchy. Often claims rhetorically that she makes less money than her male counterparts in spite of the fact that this is almost certainly bullshit. Neither of them devote any significant amount of time to pursuing justice or equality for its own sake; they only take public stands on issues insofar as those issues coincide with their agendas. And the thing that makes this post by Erica particularly galling is that it demonstrates that she'll even piss all over an issue she's supposedly supporting if it puts her precious little ass out of order for the time it takes to catch a bus back to Downtown Seattle.
If Dan and ECB were straight white wealthy males, either one of them could be the next Rush Limbaugh.
@140: faux news and rush practice advocacy journalism with a real budget. but after the ad revenue this post generated, the $tranger might be able to take it to the next level. wheeeeeeeeeee!
The moral of the story is, if getting on a unfamiliar bus ANYWHERE, ask where it goes , what the closest stop is to your destination and if the driver could let you know when that stop is, then sit near the front of the bus. I have been riding the bus (Seattle Metro) for 30 years and the only times I had problems with the route was my fault for not checking/asking. It is my responsibility to do this, not the drivers responsibility to babysit me or accomadate me when I screw up. You screwed up. Accept it like a grown-up, stop whining and lesson learned.
Metro is a PUBLIC UTLITY. People screwing around, whining, bitching, moaning, playing the "where's my fare" game, picking fights with drivers and other insane shit do nothing but make a sometimes-pokey system immensely worse.
I ride the #18/#15/#17 express between Ballard and Belltown every day and invariably I see someone who thought they were getting the local. Quite often we have a driver who'll bend the rules going up 15th and more than once it resulted in just another hellish delay on an already-delayed, overcrowded, sweaty bus.
Then you have the people that have been riding the fucking thing for half an hour and then after shuffling up to the goddamn exit like the Bride of the goddamn fucking Mummy and fishing around for their change. Move, people. Move, shut up, do whatever it is you have to to keep this thing moving so more people don't get fed up and return to driving on a regular basis.
I've ridden buses(aside from rail - rail is its own thing) in over a dozen cities and taken some things in stride - sweaty, overcrowded conditions, crazy people who are out on the street because my fatass dad voted for Reagan, the endless wheelchair waltz and the like. What I have NOT encountered is the fact that Seattle commuters tend to move like semi-retarded cattle with the occasional spastic hamster just to mix it up.
If the general public is like this it's no wonder that Metro's slow to get ANYTHING done in terms of buses that are 20 years behind shit in Columbus Ohio. COLUMBUS, PEOPLE.
In short, Erica - We've got enough fucking morons making this system barely manageable as it is and you have a responsibility as a rider(like me) to figure out where you're going. Don't be another fucking moron adding to the pile.
The lie within your story is that the bus you road is not next to a curb at 2nd and Columbia as you claim. I ride that bus daily and it is physically impossible for the bus to be next to the curb at that intersection because of the wide turn. Therefore, the driver would have been letting you off the bus in a very dangerous place.
Shame on you for stretching the truth to make your point. Do you do the same in the hardcopy Stranger?
The lie within your story is that the bus you road is not next to a curb at 2nd and Columbia as you claim. I ride that bus daily and it is physically impossible for the bus to be next to the curb at that intersection because of the wide turn. Therefore, the driver would have been letting you off the bus in a very dangerous place.
Shame on you for stretching the truth to make your point. Do you do the same in the hardcopy Stranger?
@139 - "That route is overwhelmingly populated by loud, squawking Asians who never learned how to move back and let more people on this bus."
Aw, poor you. The bus routes I take are populated by loud, yelling-into-their-cellphones whites who never learned how to stop being such ENTITLED TWATWAFFLES. (PS, I'm half Asian.)
"that was (garble garble) stop in capitol hill. (garble garble) next stop earth."
I get it now. 147 posts; 123 of them by one angry person and 15 by the geographically challenged.
Actually, it was on a curb. I'm not lying. I wouldn't ask a driver to let me off in traffic.
This "scene" actually made news on another West Seattle Blog and by the descriptions of the altercation that took place, well let's just say that 20 other people on the bus had a totally different story than the one Erica presented. They claimed she was rude, obnoxious, and probably on meth.
Typical Moonbat...
I ride the 21 express to West Seattle every day and usually sit near the front. There is someone surprised to find themselves whisked onto the Viaduct on most trips. The bus driver always announces what is going to happen next. Sometimes it isn't loud enough and sometimes they say it in a way that only makes sense if you already know what is going to happen next, but usually the surprised rider just hasn't been listening. I know the driver isn't going to let them off, but I surely do wish they could. I'd love to get rid of those Ericas asap and not have to listen to them all the way to 35th and Avalon.
I ride the 21 express to West Seattle every day and usually sit near the front. There is someone surprised to find themselves whisked onto the Viaduct on most trips. The bus driver always announces what is going to happen next. Sometimes it isn't loud enough and sometimes they say it in a way that only makes sense if you already know what is going to happen next, but usually the surprised rider just hasn't been listening. I know the driver isn't going to let them off, but I surely do wish they could. I'd love to get rid of those Ericas asap and not have to listen to them all the way to 35th and Avalon.
I ride the 21 Express to West Seattle every day, and there is usually someone who is surprised to be whisked onto the Viaduct. The drivers announce, but the surprised ones don't hear, for whatever reason. I know the drivers won't let them off, but I sure wish they could. I get tired of hearing those "Ericas" all the way to 35th and Avalon.
Sorry for the duplications. Why did it take so long for these posts to show up?
What a tease! No link?
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