Comments on Smile! You're on Capitol Hill!

How many people have jacked off in front of it (as of now)?

A compact mirror and some duct tape will solve this problem. Assholes.

I was in Vancouver BC a week ago and felt really... Watched by the Powers That Be. That city has cameras everywhere BUT the places that could do with some enforcement. Lame.

Sounds like you've found a job for Steven this afternoon, Dan.

@1

Including you, I am going to have to guess one...

The UK has an estimated 14.2 million security cameras, one for every five residents. Most people can expect every second of their waking day to be captured on video, indoors and out.

I don't really get what the big deal is. Am I missing something? Isn't the camera just there to monitor traffic at that intersection? That's what the original post says, anyway. And that corner isn't really one where people hang out, that I've seen. There's too much traffic and it's too out in the open for criminal activities, so what's the problem?

The problem, thankshappy, is that video of Mr. Poe masturbating.

Yeah, I don't think anyone has the right to or expectation of privacy on public streets. Doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

Is it a red light camera? that intersection sort of sucks.

"Yeah, I don't think anyone has the right to or expectation of privacy on public streets. Doesn't seem like a big deal to me."

Gee, let me count the differing ways you are wrong wrong wrong wrong Levislade.

OK, please enlighten me then. Don't get me wrong, I would love to think I could walk down the street picking my nose with the assumption that no one had the right to see me doing so, I just don't believe that to be the case.

@4

But I did it with Lindy West! It simply must be at least two!

Please don't use spray paint on the mirror.

Especially stuff that won't come off.

I'm with Levislade and thankshappy. If I had to choose between having The Man open my mail or take my picture crossing the street, I'll give 'em my picture every time. (Of course, this fucking government does both. Thanks for the support, Democrats-who-authorized-the-expanded-FISA.)

It's just funny that it's on a welcome sign, that's all. Red light cameras save money and lives.

So let me get this straight. We have people who are perfectly okay with cameras watching them? Seriously, you guys are fine with a camera at every corner? And what is a public space? Perhaps a rest room at a park, that is public as well.

BTW, they ARE reading your mail, watching you and listening in to your phone calls.

We got you beat in here in Chicago where they briefly put security cameras ON TOP OF public art work.

I'm guessing the superficial answer is to catch the folks (not me, natch) who take the illegal left onto 23rd from Eastbound John on the straight-only green arrow instead of waiting forever for the protected left. The crack dealers seem to have all consolidated south a few blocks to 23/Union.

*a note to would-be civil disobedients... approach from behind, don't be as dumb as that theater bathroom dude.

They're also reading your Slog posts.

Big Brother 1: This Cato guy. Should we march him off to the detention facility now?

Big Brother 2: Nah. Maybe tomorrow.

Here's a link to that story.

http://www.chicagocarless.com/2006/12/17/city_of_chicago_defaces_crown.html

That's probably not a red light camera. It's a garden-variety CCTV camera housing. Red light cameras are always accompanied by flash units, either with the camera in a bigger housing or in separate housings next to the camera. It's the only reliable way to get blur-free photos at night of license plates on moving cars. They're also usually mounted higher so cars following the target car won't block the view.

I'm with Orv. There's another pointed at the "infamous" 23rd and Union, and it looks decidedly temporary. Sure it's got half a dozen padlocks on it, but this isn't a set-up designed to weather more than a few months.

@16 - I didn't say I was OK with it; I just said I thought The Man was perfectly within his bounds to do it. It's a public space. I could stand on that corner and take everybody's picture if I wanted to as well. If you know of an actual legal, constitutional reason they shouldn't be doing it, I'd love to hear it.

I'm bothered by these cameras, but not for civil rights reasons. As has been stated above, you don't have a right to privacy in public spaces.

I'm bothered because they're useless for preventing terrorism, ordinary crime, or pretty much anything but running red lights.

If they want that camera to last more than 24 hours, I suggest they mount it out of baseball bat range.

@22:

That's probably because one lone CCTV cam scoping the entire intersection at 23rd & E Union isn't worth squat, when there are about 50 different locations around there to duck into out of sight.

It might make the nervous folks who have to use the post office there feel like the City is doing something constructive, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if the camera isn't even hooked up.

I've installed cameras like that before. It looks like one of Pelco's outdoor housings. They're not really designed to be vandal-proof but you'd still probably want to use something heavier than a baseball bat.

I would love to hear a definition of public vs. private spaces? We can not smoke in a restaurant as that is a public space as defined by law, so can they put a camera in that restaurant by that same definition of a public space under the guise of "Public Safety" ect? And still waiting on the restroom camera I mentioned earlier. Let's say that a camera is put in a ladies restroom in Volunteer Park so that POSSIBLE illegal activity can be recorded. Clearly that is a public space but no one has a right to privacy in that situation?

@28: Restrooms are kind of a special case. Even private businesses aren't allowed to have cameras in their restrooms.

And we're not talking about restrooms or private businesses. We're talking about the middle of a public thoroughfare, which is most decidedly public. Are you still trying to say it's illegal/unconstitutional? Or it just creeps you out a bit?

Levislade, if you are okay with cameras at every intersection have at it. And if you honestly think that those cameras will NEVER be abused by anyone and guarantee that they will not be then by all means have at it. I am sure we all trust the Seattle Police to be always ethical with those cameras.

I am talking about PUBLIC restrooms BTW, Please re-read the post. Nothing was said about restrooms in restaurants.

I said restrooms or restaurants, both of which you brought up.

I'm not trying to start a fight, I'm not campaigning for cameras on every street corner, I'm just waiting for some sort of constitutional basis on which people might be basing an argument against them. The original post said something about "restoring [our] full civil rights," etc.; if I have the right to be unobserved on a public street, I honestly would love to know about it.

Levislade, check out this article from Forbes.com: Snitchtown

The author points out that security cameras don't dissuade actual crime, violate the social contract of urban life (he calls it "a delicate balance of seeing and not seeing") and create a culture of fear. It's not the best article ever but he makes some good arguments.

Geez, folks... read the original blog post. It makes more sense than this one. Far less misleading. According to CHS, it's a temporary camera set up by the police for a few weeks...

It's a preliminary traffic violation camera. Big deal.

There are corners in the hood that would greatly benefit from a surveillance camera, starting with 23rd and Union.

Levislade,
Things that are bad, creepy, invasive etc. don't have to be unconstitutional to be wrong. It is illegal to tape record people in WA anywhere without telling people in advance on each occasion (with few exceptions) that it is happening - this is an RCW not part of any constitution.

RCW 9.73.030
Intercepting, recording, or divulging private communication — Consent required — Exceptions.

(1) Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, it shall be unlawful for any individual, partnership, corporation, association, or the state of Washington, its agencies, and political subdivisions to intercept, or record any:

(b) Private conversation, by any device electronic or otherwise designed to record or transmit such conversation regardless how the device is powered or actuated without first obtaining the consent of all the persons engaged in the conversation.

Cato the YY, 33, 36- you are exactly who they are trying to catch with these cameras. You should live every moment in fear that there is another camera watching you get your coffee, following you to your office, and watching you pee.

It may not seem like it sometimes, but the 'powers that be' have a good beat on who theyre after, and they aren't wasting good money looking at your boring-ass life.

@#2: I Live in Vancouver, BC, and have honestly never felt 'watched'. Maybe it's because I've got nothing to hide. Or perhaps Canadians are less susceptible to irrational fears of surveillance.

Not to worry, turns out the Pres authorized our spy satellites to let all the Homeland Security departments use their info without warrants today.

Including the pics of you sunbathing nude with that ugly dog, Tdub.

Yeah, they fly over Canada too.

@16
You make it sound as if it's personal and people are watching you ALL the time. Get real. Nobody cares about what you're doing, and nobody has the time to watch you either. Do you think the UK even has enough people to monitor 14 million cameras?

On the other hand, if someone stabbed you while you were walking down the street you might be pretty glad that one of these cameras happened to record the scene for posterity. Unless you pulled a knife first of course.

These recordings aren't even looked at until someone commits a crime near one of them. So the only people who should fear an invasion of their privacy are the ones who probably need to be watched all the time anyway. And while the presence of a camera might not deter crime it sure makes it easier to catch the perpetrators.

This is a pretty simple problem to solve.

If there are to be cameras that monitor public spaces, the entire datafeed should be available, unfiltered, to the public. Same goes for videos taken by squad cars.

If the Powers that Be are really interested in serving and protecting, well, they shouldn't have a problem with that, should they?

Wait, that's never gonna happen? What do they have to hide?

I've never felt creeped out by surveillance cameras. Obviously others do.

I'm with #39. They probably don't deter people, but they help you catch people after the fact. And it isn't just stabbings and such. They can help find lost or kidnapped children, or some poor old person suffering from Alzheimer's who has wandered off. As long as they don't stick one inside my home, or inside the stall of a bathroom, I think they're just fine.

Did the camera catch an image of the person who spray-painted the sign it is attached to? More to the point...Do cameras do anything to reduce crime? Any studies out there that show that cameras do anything other than let anyone know that there is a camera there?

Truth be told they need to put up a camera is at Union and 23rd Ave East. Those security cameras are becoming very needed and will be very helpful in prosecuting crimes.

I'm happy to see Capitol Hill spelled correctly on the sign.

Um, Sweetie?

This is a traffic cam. Specifically to catch drivers who run red lights. This would do nothing to stop the crackdealing, brawling, muggings, and other associated hustlings that go on at 23rd and Union.

@41: I imagine they're also handy for tracking pesky activist types that insist on involving themselves in politics.

I dunno, I have a deep distrust of government surveillance because the government has a long history of harassing harmless people with politics they don't like. I mean, the FBI had a big file on John Lennon, for crying out loud.

@45 BUT what if someone is racing through at red light at 23rd and Union and a picture gets taken of a crime committed at the same time! Totally worth having a camera there. I mean you should see the caliber of hoochies working that corner now! It's really gross.

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