talk about a retarded poll. how about an option for "who gives a shit about obtuse factors in choosing a president"?

The surveys I've seen have shown little difference between the two.

I honestly don't know how people ask that with a straight face. Are we ready for woman motorists? How about black teachers? What a country.

black male? A black president could mean a black female which would skew the results (I think) of your question.

More difficult than I thought to set aside the candidates here (or at least, to answer this question without thinking of examples like the current candidates or like Colin Powell, Nancy Pelosi, etc.).

What a framework. I think the country is 'ready' for both and not 'ready' for both.

What's funny about this whole thing is that a majority of blacks are saying Obama isn't 'black', and a majority of everyone is saying Hillary has a penis (some serious, some joking).

He's not black. She's not a woman. Fun.

We're ready for anything. Our President is Bush. Remember?

As we have all known since 2000, you don't need widespread support, or even a majority, to win the presidency under our current system. Given that, there's likely enough votes in the right places to elect either a black man or a woman, regardless of whether the nation is generally "ready" for it.

@4: That's a good point, but I want to run this poll in the abstract at first, since that's how it's generally being discussed (black president vs. woman president).

There's plenty of time before the primaries to run a more specific poll (black male president vs. white female president). I'll probably do that. Thanks for the suggestion.

Sheesh! I'm with clarify, please @4. We are talking about a black MAN president and a WHITE woman president, right. The question assumes that all Black people are men and all women are white. I am so fucking over that shit!!! Yes, the media is filled with "are we ready for a black or a woman." NEWSFLASH: I am a BLACK WOMAN. Yeah, we do exist.

Mr. Poe, not sure which Blacks you are talking to. But, the Black people in my majority Black city know that Obama is Black.

Do you remember Shirley Chisholm? " Of my two "handicaps" being female put more obstacles in my path than being black."

@7,

I don't know if a majority of black people say that. I've heard tell of belly aching from the Al Sharpton camp -- sour grapes over his unelectability, I'm sure -- but I've yet to hear an average Joe/Jane say it.

Cats are girls and dogs are boys. Everyone knows that.

I bet that if you did a survey of all the American people, more people would say that they vote for a woman or a black man in the survey than would actually vote for one given real candidates.

You could test the difference between what people say and what they do by designing some kind of conjoint analysis (asking people a series of questions where in each question they choose between a set of two candidates with different characteristics). Then you'd be able to analyze the value of woman vs. man, black vs. white, pro-choice vs. pro-life, etc. You'd actually be able to design the "perfect candidate". Maybe this is being done now by politicians, I don't know.... At the very least it would be an interesting media story.

Eli @9:
I think that the mass media (and you) are being dishonest to claim that it is about "a" black and "a" woman. There are blacks of both (all) genders and women of all races.

I tend to think of Slog readers as mostly a progressive (or, not to put too fine a point on it, mostly non-racist and non-sexist) bunch. Our guesses are as good as anybody's, because I have yet to hear somebody on Slog say either "I'd be okay with a black male, but not a white female" or vice versa.

This is a "What is the nation more ready for?" poll, but it'd be interesting to post a "Which would YOU actually vote for? Black person, female, both, neither?" poll--one here, and one on FoxNews.com.

The question becomes really stupid if you DON'T assume that the Black president is a man and the woman president is white.

For instance:

Is the country ready for Black WOMAN president or a BLACK woman president?

Come on, can we stop pretending it is about "a" black and "a" woman?

I think this poll is stupid.

Also, no one is ready for anything. We weren't ready to have women vote, we weren't ready to end slavery, we weren't ready to allow interracial marriages, or any of the other civil rights victories we've had that we all now take for granted as occuring 'naturally". Please, we can't wait until everyone's "ready".

So I think this context that journalists are pushing on the public is based on their own desire to use shorthand.

I'm ready for a GOOD president. I could give a shit what color or gender that comes in. I'm just tired of the evil crook we have now.

Now on to the question. I think the nation is more ready for a woman president than a black one. I think by in large racism trumps sexism in this country.

I used 'majority' loosely, but everything remains the same.

Either one, but only if they're Christians.

Agree with pox. Anyone who wouldn't vote for an African American or woman wouldn't vote for Obama or Hilary because of their politics anyways. But an atheist wouldn't stand a chance. Which is pretty fucked up. I'd rather have an atheist than a crazed fundie; we've seen how well that works out.

@20. Here here. Nothing else matters as long as they are good.

I agree that in general in this country racism trumps sexism. But, specifically, when we're talking about the people who might run for president (e.g., Obama, Powell, etc.), I think race would only be a factor for the most racist of racists. In other words, obviously a KKK member would not vote for a black candidate, but I could see a more run-of-the-mill racist saying "most black people are lazy, but boy, that Colin Powell sure is impressive". Maybe. Whereas for women, I think even regular run-of-the-mill sexists might have doubts about whether a woman could handle the presidency.

I don't really know one way or the other -- I'm just trying to guess what "America" would think. My closest analogy is what the policies of the military were/are relative to blacks and women.

How about a black woman president? I'll vote for that.

Finally on Slog, a racist AND sexist poll! The only people who care about either a female or black president are those people who are closeted racists or sexists.

Separate angle to this, but I think the U.S. will first elect a "minority" president, of any type, that is conservative (a la Margaret Thatcher,) before they elect one that is progressive/liberal. So, according to this theory, President Condi fits both of these and will be president before either Obama or Hillary. Oh well.

Yes of course there are black women. Duh.

But still, in the abstract, the question is valid. To ignore the question is to ignore that racism and sexism still exist in this country. The question isn't trying to ignore the fact that black women exist. What the question really asks is: Which is more likely to be overcome enough to elect a non-white-male president, sexism or racism?

Progressive Seattle is almost certainly ready to elect a black female president. I doubt the country as a whole is. I've lived and worked in some environments that were a whole lot less progressive than Seattle. The military, for example, is still generally very sexist, although less racist. Parts of the deep south are much more racist than sexist.

My guess is that between sexism and racism, this country is closer to overcoming sexism. Therefor my guess is that in the abstract, we are more likely to elect a woman than a black president.

Having said that, individual characteristics and charisma makes a huge difference. Although I think sexism is more likely to be overcome in the abstract, I think Obama has buckets more charisma than Hillary. If it were my choice alone to make, I'd pick Obama. Although I'd gladly take Hillary over any of the warmongering asswipes on the Republican ticket if she beats Obama in the primary.

Good question. (I think.) ...obviously we don't have many abstract thinkers on slog...

No doubt the country is more ready for a female president--read: more widely accepted by all parties and ideology. We have republican congress members who are women. We haven't had a black republican in congress since 1930-something... And governors? In the last century, some pattern (with two black governors?).

*same pattern* (not some pattern)

I loved Larry Wilmore, "Black Correspondent" on The Daily Show suggesting that maybe we should ease into a Black president. Start Asian, then Latino, then half Black...

We should just start 'em in easy, with a Jew. You with me, Eli?

@29: JC Watts

I'm with #19. Nobody, as a group, seems to be "ready" for anything until it's been done a time or two.

The problem is, the examples 19 gave were about social reform, which is a matter for the courts. Sometimes logic actually holds sway there. But we're talking about an election. If there was a time that logic dictated who you should vote for, that is far, far in the past. (A generalization, of course.)

If I could choose, though, I'd prefer to get all of this out of the way: how about a half-black, half-asian bhuddist lesbian with a disability for president? I think every fundie would just go run off a cliff or drink some kool-aid if that happened. :)

In some ways its a really silly question, but then I remember; who has interviewed me for a job? I've had more women than men making the "to hire or not hire" decision about me, but I've never had any non-white person taxed with the decision of whether or not I should be hired. I think americans are more used to thinking of women as bosses than non-white people as bosses, so I think americans are more willing to accept a white women than a black man as president.

How about a competent President?

SDA in SEA @28. Yeah, of course there are Black women, you say. But, how come you use the word "woman" in paragraph #4 to describe ONLY white women? Do you see what I mean? When you (and others) simply say "woman" but mean WHITE women you ignore those of us that are non-white women. Ain't I a woman?

@27 -- I was thinking the same thing yesterday. Part of me thinks it may, sadly, be so much easier to elect any minority republican candidate before a minority progressive candidate.

That said, it's hard to imagine anyone BUT Hillary or Obama getting the nomination next year, and hard to imagine any of the republican candidates beating whoever snags the dem nomination. Personally, I hope it's Hillary, but that's beside the point.

That reminds me of an old Bloom County comic when Oliver Wendell Jones' dad says that the first black president will be a Republican.

I miss Bloom County.

The only people who care about either a female or black president are those people who are closeted racists or sexists.

I guess only sexists and racists want women and racial minorities as politicians, businesspeople, doctors, teachers, writers, and voters too, right? Or, maybe the exact opposite is true and you're a not-so-closeted white male supremacist?

Voting for another white male as president is just about the most sexist and racist thing you can do. This is our best shot ever at ending the unbroken string of white patriarchy.

@40 I think when he said 'care about either a female or black president' I meant that the ones who look at gender or race as deciding factors as opposed to his or her views. Not racist at all :P
And voting for another white male president is not in itself racist or sexist, it's only that way if you voted for him simply *because* he was a white male regardless of anything else.

Will the USA put in office a black or a woman democrat running for office against a white fear mongering republican??

#32. You are my hero.

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