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Friday, August 17, 2007

Seattle is Racist, but…

posted by on August 17 at 6:01 AM

this kind of gross behavior wouldn’t happen here.

Welcome to the east coast Ray Allen, where people show their true colors—and don’t like yours.

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1

True Josh, it would not happen here. Seattle hides it right wing leanings under a guise of political correctness. Coupled with Seattle's passive agressive behavior just makes for a pot full of love!

Posted by Cato the Younger Younger | August 17, 2007 6:54 AM
2

Ironically, the article (not the blog post about the article) actually mentions a recent incident where Allen was abused... in Seattle!

Posted by Natalie | August 17, 2007 7:13 AM
3

Please don't use stupid generalizations like "Seattle is racist." That by itself is insulting to the many fine folks here that are doing their best every day to try and make a positive contribution to our city.

Posted by raindrop | August 17, 2007 7:23 AM
4

good points both #1 & 2

Death to Poltcl Corctness and Pssve Agrssiv and IRONY, despite the beutiful gene for humor that has been passed on to us, ironically.

Yet I identify with Ray's quote:
"He was yelling at me like I was one of his kids or something"

I see this treatment often coming from employers and family, two new terms to be found in Wikipudlia, Familyism and Supervisorism ->people who get paid more). The entries in that dubious source, providing false info for ambitious fresh(wo)men every year, has just provided 46 edits on said -isms in the past 48 hours. The wimps.

Posted by Garrett | August 17, 2007 7:30 AM
5

I see more general Northeastern bloodyminded dickishness than racism in this incident. Many New Englanders are apt to greet strangers with rudeness. Sad but true. Which isn't to say there isn't racism in the Northeast, but I don't think it's of any different scale than you find in the Northwest. New Englanders are just rude. Charmingly rude sometimes, but really, just rude.

Posted by Providence | August 17, 2007 7:43 AM
6

I just got to my office in Pioneer Square after a beautiful walk from Leschi. Everyone seemed fairly pleasant along the way. I think you folks really do enjoy making mountains out of molehills.

Posted by daniel | August 17, 2007 7:44 AM
7

Seattle is racist?


Really, just like that? You really think so?

Posted by mukwana | August 17, 2007 7:53 AM
8

Hey, I just said that Seattle hides it's right wing leanings under a guiese of PC and passive/agressive behavior patterns.

There is more racisim in Seattle than most people will ever admit to. You have heard about the SPD right?

Posted by Caot the YY | August 17, 2007 7:58 AM
9

Why is everyone so afraid to admit Seattle is racist? It doesn't make every person in Seattle racist. You can still think you're different, and better, than everyone else. (Like me, obviously).

It's institutionalized, like in the police force, as CthYY said.

Posted by Tizzle | August 17, 2007 8:20 AM
10

Welcome to the east coast Ray Allen, where people show their true colors—and don’t like yours.
Oh, blow it out your West Coast ass. Like Ray Allen would fare better in Boise. Puhleeze.

Posted by FredE | August 17, 2007 8:34 AM
11

The real smarmy gem is in the third page of comments on the actual article:

The article of August 15, 2007, Ray Allen Takes the Good with the Bad by Desmond Conner mischaracterizes my interaction with Mr. Allen, and as a consequence requires clarification. At the onset, however, please recognize that there are many notable people among our memberships at WOW Fitness, as well as stay-at-home moms and dads, students, retirees, and many others who have made a personal commitment to an actice, healthy lifestyle. All members of our organization are entitled to courtesy and respect.


My interaction with Mr. Allen arose from a question concerning the issuance of a guest pass which controversed our policy. The employee whose initials appeared on the pass advised me that she had not issued the pass and she was concerned that this may have occured on more than this occasion.


While WOW Fitness does, on occasion, provide guests with a pass for a limited trial period to enable them to become familiar with our facilities, the trial period is not the extended period that was provided to Mr. Allen, and our employee indicated that she did not authorize it. My concern was to address her questions with respect to the issuance of the guest pass; in this case it happened to have been issued to Mr. Allen. Her speculation was that this made by another staff member in her name. My interest was in determining by whom the pass to Mr. Allen was issued and my discussion with him was initiated for this purpose.


Contrary to your report, Mr. Allen did not extend his hand to me; and I can assure you, as common courtesy, I would of course shake a person's hand if extended to me. Your description of our conversation as being anything other than cordial is not accurate.


WOW Fitness has grown to be Connecticut's premier fitness facilities based on our providing facilities with state of the art equipment, an emphasis on cleanliness, and a trained staff with fitness expertise. We value our relationship to our members and to the communities in which we operate. We have donated memberships to area churches and civic organizations. We have made a regular practice of donating our equipment to area high community schools, donations that now total more than $800,000. I, and the staff of WOW Fitness treat each and every one of our members with dignity, courtesy, and respect.


We are surprised that this is not consistent with Mr. Allen's experience in this matter, but I hope this information will provide a better factual context than your article reflected.


Lou Soteriou
President, Work Out World

Posted by eric | August 17, 2007 8:43 AM
12

... well, at least people are direct in the Northeast. :)

Posted by mjg | August 17, 2007 8:46 AM
13

so let me get this straight. he accuses allen of forging passes, and then uses community charity as a defense?

what a douche.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | August 17, 2007 8:47 AM
14

Racism? Asshole-ism, sure. Where's the racial cue?

Thx, eric, for sharing Soteriou's priceless phrasing: the guest pass "controversed out policy".

Gotta remember that one.

Meanwhile, the relentless search for proof of SPD racism goes on ... and on ... and on.

Posted by RonKSeattle | August 17, 2007 8:54 AM
15

here you go, dude. why does one get the overwhelming feeling that you or someone close to you gets their paychecks from the spd? you spend more time pimping them than feit spends pimping hillary.

http://www.kcba.org/ScriptContent/KCBA/druglaw/pdf/beckettstudy.pdf

Posted by for ronkseattle | August 17, 2007 9:15 AM
16

people WISH seattle was the racist deep south because then they would have a Great Satan to fight against. Seattle racism is like little league. Sure, it's baseball. But it isn't the real thing. If you really want to fight the good fight, go to where racism really swings for the fences instead of pretending that "no really, we're a racist cesspool too--it's just _really_ hard to find!"

Posted by whatever | August 17, 2007 9:18 AM
17

seattle is racist in this way:

we talk about diversity in the northwest but we arent any more ethnically diverse than minneapolis or st paul. we try to rest on the laurels of something that isnt statistically true. 67% white in seattle is hardly diverse. 75% white in king county is hardly diverse. 88% white in all of washington is hardly diverse.

the racism part is how we convince ourselves that we are diverse and we could never possibly be racist here, but then go on to ignore actual racial problems because "problems like that dont exist in this diverse atmosphere"

Posted by Bellevue Ave | August 17, 2007 9:42 AM
18

Don't tar all east coasters by comparing them to Boston. We Philly natives make fun of Bostonians because they're too racist as well. I guarantee you if a gym owner did that to a member of the 76ers, he'd have to enter the witness relocation program.

Posted by thehim | August 17, 2007 9:44 AM
19

Whoa! Is this the same Josh Feit who just days ago called out Boardman at the Times for "relying on some pretty out-of-date stereotypes"?

Hmmmmm.

Posted by daytrpr | August 17, 2007 9:48 AM
20

Why is everyone so afraid to admit Seattle is racist?

This is perfect: an accusation framed as a question, vintage Seattle PC passive-aggressiveness.

Posted by PC | August 17, 2007 9:53 AM
21

As a black man with an Italian wife, I'll take Seattle over Boston any day of the f#&king week ...

Posted by abracapocus | August 17, 2007 9:57 AM
22

@#2
what incident happened in Seattle? I count two in Connecticut and one in Mexico.

Posted by huh | August 17, 2007 10:04 AM
23

@19,

Boardman doesn't think Republicans are prone to activism. Outdated stereotype.

As for my claim about Seattle.
Seattle is out loud PC, but it's a city with failing south end schools, a police force with an ugly recent history of over-the-top arrests of black men, blatant segregation, and that weird anti-Semitic reaction to the X-mas tree thing at Sea-Tac.

This city, like any city, has demonstrated problems with race. However, since we're PC, we seem to be passive aggressive about it... or we just deny it.

In Cromwell, CT., that gym manager was out loud about it. I don't think that would happen here.

But mainly, the point of my post, was that it happened.

Posted by Josh Feit | August 17, 2007 10:24 AM
24

Um, "blatant segregation"?

And that "ugly recent history" seems to be evaporating, case by case.

So we've got bad schools in the south end, and a weird controversy re seasonal decorations at an airport.

Oh, and the Beckett study -- paid for by defense lawyers to support racial disparity defenses, and proving primarily that SPD drug delivery enforcement resources were concentrated on open-air crack dealing for several months back in 2000.

Racism is something to be taken seriously. White PC-chic is something to be ridiculed.

Posted by RonK, Seattle | August 17, 2007 10:48 AM
25

@17, what exactly would we do to rectify that. I suppose we could cart in some minorities, but that kind of has a negative history to it.

Maybe we talk about diversity in this city, because we actually do value it, even if we don't have all that much of it.

Posted by Giffy | August 17, 2007 10:54 AM
26

If Seattle is a racist city, where's my "whites only" drinking fountain?

Posted by Jason Josephes | August 17, 2007 10:55 AM
27

@ All of you. I think that compared to some places Seattle's racisim is not nearly as bad nor as obvious. But Josh is right, it is here.

Again, I point to a theme that is really coming up in Slog as of late: "everything in Seattle is fine or not like other places" (the letter about Broadway comes to mind from yesterday and again with this posting).

Once people buy into the idea of "all is wonderful" we stop dealing with the problems that actually do exist. We have a chance to deal with racial issues in a somewhat embryonic stage. Can we deal with it (starting with the SPD) now before it really does rise to the level of other places around the country?

Posted by Cato the Younger Younger | August 17, 2007 10:58 AM
28

“Given this pattern, and the fact that blacks are more likely to deliver cocaine than other serious drugs in Seattle, it seems plausible that the Seattle Police Department’s focus on cocaine contributes to the disproportionate arrest of blacks. However, this does not appear to be the case, as the racial composition of delievery arrestees is remarkably consistent across categories (see Table 8 of this report). In other words, there appears to be very little correspondence between levels of involvement in drug delivery and arrest rates. That is, fewer blacks engage in heroin delivery than cocaine delivery, but a nearly identical share of heroin and cocaine arrestees are black (61.8 and 63.1%, respectively). Similarly, whites appear to be significantly more involved in methamphetamine delivery than cocaine delivery, but the white share of delivery arrestees for these two drugs is remarkably similar (21.4% and 18.8%, respectively). It thus appears that a racial group’s involvement in drug delivery is nearly irrelevant to their representation among delivery arrestees for that drug. As a result, if the SPD de-emphasized cocaine but kept its other tactics and priorities constant, the racial composition of those arrested for drug delivery woudl likely not change in a meaningful way. In short, although blacks are over-represented among cocaine delivery arrestees, the SPD focus on cocaine does not explain racially disparate arrest oucomes.”

Posted by read the report, ronkseattle | August 17, 2007 11:25 AM
29

So, can someone provide an example of a "non-racist" city? Thanks.

Posted by daytrpr | August 17, 2007 11:28 AM
30

Seattle is totally racist. I have had tons of people say things about Canadians every day, but I usually don't admit I'm a dual citizen.

Oh, wait, you meant racism as in how Americans see it ... not national identity/origin as it is there.

Never mind.

Posted by Will in Seattle | August 17, 2007 11:32 AM
31

@21 - that's because mixed marriages and couples are far more common in the West than in the East. It's pretty normal here - heck, my sister and two cousins are both in multi-multi-ethnic marriages.

Back east there's a lot more segregation and less mixing.

Posted by Will in Seattle | August 17, 2007 11:37 AM
32

you're right, it's hard to find racism in seattle.

it's also hard to find black people. (aside from the homeless.)

Posted by K | August 17, 2007 11:42 AM
33

@19 Josh it isn't just the "South End Schools" that are failing, but almost every single Seattle district school because of the racial agenda the district pushes ahead of an actual education for the children that attend the schools. People like you seem to just LOVE that agenda, but do you even have a child in the system? I doubt it. You are a bigger bigot than anyone you'll ever label a bigot because you're the type of effete phony that can't take it when someone voices their views if they aren't along the same lines as your own. I guess you could call it being a Uptight PC Seattle Bigot and you as well as your fellow writers certainly fit the bill.

Posted by Sweetie | August 17, 2007 11:51 AM
34

@33. Your posting of calling Josh a effete phony sounds like something I heard Ann Coulter say on Fox news yesterday. You know just saying..... (along with the new Slog line of "no right to privacy in public places" Bill o'Reiley used that three times yesterday.

Posted by Cato the Younger Younger | August 17, 2007 12:01 PM
35

67% white also applies to the country. King County and Washington State have that average beat. The United States non-white population just surpassed the 100 million mark, one out of every three people, according to the USCB is not white. What does it all mean anyways?

Posted by Deacon Seattle | August 17, 2007 12:06 PM
36

gutless wonder @ 28 -- Read the report, thanks. "Lawyer commissions study to prove point, proves point."

Cherrypicking intervals, locations, method of estimate, comparables. Leveraging small-sample effects. Not a single mention of the most salient unit structure (of both police and drug dealers). Not persuasive.

And d'ya think, just maybe, that if SPD were out to screw black people, they'd more likely come up with some less convoluted way to do it? D'ya think?

Posted by RonK, Seattle | August 17, 2007 12:13 PM
37

the point is seattle is totally average in terms of white people and yet we think we are diverse and racially tolerant.

its a lie of perception. its a lie of knowing who we are. it doesnt serve any purpose except making ouyrselves not feel like racists while we actually dont have that many people to discriminate against.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | August 17, 2007 12:49 PM
38

the point is seattle is totally average in terms of white people and yet we think we are diverse and racially tolerant.

its a lie of perception. its a lie of knowing who we are. it doesnt serve any purpose except making ouyrselves not feel like racists while we actually dont have that many people to discriminate against.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | August 17, 2007 12:50 PM
39

@32 - you don't get out much, do you? my son has been a minority at most schools until his current majority white high school.

Sheesh.

Posted by Will in Seattle | August 17, 2007 1:00 PM
40

@17:

Your suggestion that Seattle is racist because of a lack of minorities shows a clear lack of understanding of the term. Racism would involve some sort of action. If you think non-minorities being alive in an area is racist, then you have a sickness in your mind.

@Society in general:

Stop trying to lump me into a group called "white." Just because my skin is of a light tone, and my ancestors came from Europe doesn't mean I'm part of some kind of club. It's racist, and part of the problem. We are all individuals, and should be judged on that basis. It is racist when I'm judged because of my ancestry.

Divisions between groups will always exist as long as people keep trying to categorize everyone. When people aren't lumped into groups then you can't have racism. Talking about black issues or white issues involves an implicit racism.

An individual performs a racist act, not a group. Just because I've been assigned by society to a group called white, and other people assigned to that group are racist doesn't mean that I am.

Seattle as a group can not be racist. Some people in Seattle are, which is likely true of any arbitrary group.

Posted by Ryan | August 17, 2007 1:09 PM
41

Ryan: you make a very good point and I agree with you. I\'m sorry in advance for the self-righteous shit people will fling at your comment.

Posted by just another white guy | August 17, 2007 1:16 PM
42

This post and comments have been enlightening, but perhaps for the wrong reasons: where is the racisim in the story Josh cited? One of the problems of dealing with discrimination is assuming, without a clear indication, every conflict between the races is racist, or even racial. As No. 14 said, assholism, ok. But the mob mentality of other commentors, like Josh, saw the only issue as color. You might ask yourselves where that comes from.

Posted by RahRah | August 17, 2007 1:21 PM
43

it's not racist because of the actual number ryan, it's the mentality of people that thinks we are diverse, and therefore not racist that is the problem.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | August 17, 2007 1:55 PM
44

@43:

So you are saying that people site our diversity as proof that we are not racist? I would agree that diversity does not imply freedom from racism.

I would also suggest that the idea of diversity as a goal is well intentioned, but also racist. It forwards a notion that there is an inherent value in minorities because they are minorities (rather than because they are people). The value of an individual is in the content of their character, and not in the color of their skin.

Diversity of opinion and background (which are tied to character) will always be more valuable than diversity of skin color (which has nothing to do with character).

One of the reasons that MLK, Jr. was so well regarded is because of his feelings on this matter. He should be an inspiration to anyone who wishes to see the end of racism. He didn't emphasize diversity, but rather togetherness. An acknowledgment that while some of us may look different we are all still people.

Posted by Ryan | August 17, 2007 2:10 PM
45

I agree with you on this. I find it just insulting that people say the northwest is diverse (compared to what?) when it isnt, and then say that we arent as racist because of diversity, which is fallacious.

I cite new york as an example where there is diversity but there is still racism and segregation.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | August 17, 2007 2:55 PM
46

White people talking about how non-racist they are is the most ridiculous shit in the world. If you don't understand racism, please just sit back, take your social advantages, and wait until society makes laws to mitigate your racism.

Posted by jamier | August 18, 2007 10:33 AM

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