Comments on Riding Bikes on Sidewalks

Jesus, first Pitbulls, now Bikes??

Are you trying to beat the daily comment record?

If so, a post about how Broadway has gone downhill should round it out nicely.

Got noting against a biker on the sidewalk provided:

They actually do yield to pedestrians

They make their presence known when they ride up on you ( a little "on your left" is much appreciated.

I nearly jump out of my skin every time some inconsiderate biker whips by me completely unexpectedly at high speed on the sidewalk

My only issue with cyclists on sidewalks is when they come up behind you and don't let you know they are there. Just this morning I was passed by a bike so closely, that if I had taken a half-step to the left at the wrong time, I would have gotten flattened. Is a simple "on your left" too much to ask for? If you're not willing to do that much, you shouldn't be on the sidewalk.

Oops, Westside forever posted as I was writing mine. I agree, @2!

Okay, so riding on the sidewalk is legal so long as pedestrians get the right of way. CHECK.

So how about Pike Place Mkt. Clearly it is a street that cars have full access to drive through and each side has sidewalks for the people. Granted there are always so many people that they have to overflow into the street but are they not now breaking the law by walking in the street? And if so, can I start yelling at them for standing in the middle of the fucking street?

That's a sweet story

I see your "suck my dick" and raise it to a "she should choke on a dick and die."

for lauren at #7:
and then boiled in a pit bull/cranky lady/ stew...

--hipsterlite

i understand that people want an "on your left" in theory. however, as a cyclist my experience has been that 6 out of 10 times if you say "on your left" people a) don't move, or b) move left. so often it's best to not say anything and hope for the best, squeak by and move on.

OK, agreed. But how about the cyclists that think every piece of paved surface is their own? When I was a bus commuter, I walked through Judkins Park every day to get from 23rd to the I-90 stop on Rainier. I can't count how many times I was nearly run over by cyclists, who would then yell at me for being in their way. Or the cranky old guy at Myrtle Edwards Park on Monday who got pissy because I was driving my truck in to disassemble the DanceSafe stage after HempFest. Sorry dude, got in your way there for like two seconds. My bad.

And don't even get me started on how cyclists treat pedestrians on the I-90 bridge...

I agree that cyclists should make a noise before they pass but, just by way of providing the alternate perspective: when I'm coming up behind someone on my bike and say, "On your left," about half the time they react with a startled jump sideways. Specifically, they jump suddenly to their left. My odds of getting by them without an accident are, in my experience, very much improved by not telling them I'm coming.

For the record: I hate cyclists that blast around, terrorizing pedestrians. I also hate cyclists that needlessly antagonize drivers, e.g. not getting out of the way of a driver that wants to make a right turn at a red light (that's a good time to pull up on the sidewalk).

Cyclists like these should be boiled alive like lobsters and fed to the homeless.

@9 - no kidding, and usually, I still get the big ol' stink eye for having the temerity to suggest that they either move or let me pass. The nerve!

"On your left" doesn't mean anything to someone who doesn't bike. Or ski, I suppose.

Every morning I run either from my place around Greenlake or my place down along Burke Gillman at 4:30 am. And I ALWAYS run on the far far right side of the trail (white shirt and headlamp on my baseball cap too). And EVERY fucking morning some asshole biker nearly runs me off the trail. The prick (could be more than one though) NEVER slows down and blasts right down the center of the trail like he owns it.

GOD I hate cyclists....

Oy. This debate rages out east in Michigan, too. Our little ol' college town of Ann Arbor has had 2 or 3 letters to the editor each week for the past several weeks about bikers and cars sharing the roads. I'm a bike commuter and never ride on the sidewalks b/c I don't have to. The streets I take are largely very safe. It's about being courteous, I think. Ah, courtesy. It sounds like you were being couteous, Dan. Too bad about the mean lady.

DOUGLAS Wrote:
" understand that people want an "on your left" in theory. however, as a cyclist my experience has been that 6 out of 10 times if you say "on your left" people a) don't move, or b) move left. so often it's best to not say anything and hope for the best, squeak by and move on...."

Actually the issue of pedestrian safety and riding enjoyment would be better served if bicyclists used a bell to signal their presence. They are used constantly on bikes in Europe and Asia and should be mandatory here. It's
a cheap safety device and it works!

--- Jensen

Dan, there are numerous reasons why LWB is so popular for bikes: it's beautiful, it's not very high-traffic, it's flat, it's part of the unofficial Lake Washington Loop, it gets partially closed two weekend days every month in the summer for Bicycle Sunday/Saturday, and it used to have signs saying vehicles must yield to bicycles (there's still at least one of these left, except I believe it's not on Lake Washington Boulevard, but on Lakeside Ave S on the section just south of Leschi where LWB goes up the hill a bit to meander through Frink and Colman Parks).

@5: I believe the section of Pike Place between Pike and Western is one of the rare streets in the city where pedestrians are allowed to legally walk in the street. I personally think if you aren't a delivery truck, it's prudent to not drive that street during regular Market hours.

Thanks Dan. Bikes on sidewalks are required to have a sound making device such as a bell or horn. It would be nice if a biker would start making noise far enough away that a step to the wrong side wouldn't result in a crash. It amazes me how rude bikers are to pedestrians - with cars I get it - they won't even stop at a crosswalk to let a ped cross.

Yeah, I've had people jump to the left when I said "on your left." That's why I just start ringing my idiotically cheerful bell waaaaay in advance. Gives them time to jump left, jump right, and stare around trying to figure out where the ice cream truck is coming from. And if they assume I'm a little challenged as I ding-a-ling past, well...at least we're all safe.

I agree that "on your right" is infinitely annoying. Best to use stealth, or a delightful little bell.
I feel that the rule should be simple. The ped always has right of way and deserves deference. After that the biker gets right of way, but has the responsibility to be considerate. The driver should yield to everyone and be grateful that the ped and biker aren't in cars of their own clogging the precious streets.

Maybe bicyclists should just shout, "go left!" or something similar, and then pass on the right, since most people apparently can't tell their left from their right in the first place.

"hay-foot, straw-foot, hay-foot, straw-foot"...

nice passive aggressive response, you sure showed that mansion dwelling cow what the law was by whining about it later in your websites blog.

I am glad I have a journlistic hero telling the rich what time it is.

that will teach her!

In many cities it is illegal to ride a bike on the sidewalk, which could account for her look of incredulity if she is a recent transplant.

She might actually have appreciated being told that it's legal to ride a bike on the sidewalk in Seattle. Or maybe not, if she was that bitchy in the first place.

@23

Dan's response seems preferable to actually stopping, getting off his bike, walking over and cursing the nice old lady out to her face.

#23:
nice passive aggressive response, you sure showed that journlistic hero the time of day by responding to his post on this website blog....

that will teach him...

--meanielite

Dang. The pedestrians don't want you around them. The drivers certainly could live without your presence. Where does the hate come from? Bicycles are such a joy to have around, aren't they? Just the other day in the park I said "Wow, this is perfect. Well almost -- if only some dudes on bikes would ride through. Then it would be heaven!"

It's the biggest fat fucking mystery ever why everybody wishes bicyclists would take themselves elsewhere. Oh well. Maybe they just don't appreciate a good thing.

I ride up rainier on the sidewalk and I often meet with people who are completely unresponsive to my vocal warnings (on you left, excuse me, etc.) Some are on the cell phones, perhaps the others are just deaf. I used to ride the road, but drivers were far too aggressive, I got chased off every day. It's a kill or be killed situation. I choose to kill.

Paths and sidewalks I understand when road conditions suck for bikes. What I don't get is all the bikers on Green Lake. They really do drive me nuts. If you can't handle the streets in that area...you might want to just walk.

There will always be people who will be displeased.

This reminds me of the issue of reclining seats in planes/buses - Clearly we are "legally" permitted to put our seats back (the airlines make this possible by providing the seats). But there are some people who think it is entirely rude and improper to put one's seat back (usually they mind this when they are sitting behind you) while there are others who think it is okay. I always thought it was totally permissible, until a few people I talked to indicated that it was a majorly evil move. This is something I've wondered about for a while, so if anyone could help me out I'd appreciate it. A slog poll would be handy.

(why is this related? Same goes for biking on the sidewalk)

"Rather than bike side-by-side, which is an asshole thing to do on a street"

It's not an asshole thing to do; it's safer and encouraged and legal.

I've said it a million times - Seattleites have extreme personal space issues. Chalk it up to single family residences, glum weather, whatever, but many (not all) Seattle folk have a strange, and surprisingly confrontational, sense of entitlement in public spaces.

Rather than bike side-by-side, which is an asshole thing to do on a street,

Thanks for this, Dan. Too few get the message.

Ho-hum. For every action there is a reaction; and for every reaction there is an over-reaction. If someone shouted "suck my dick" at me I would be tempted to riposte with "eat my twat". What could elevate the road rage factor more than an hyper-heated exchange of amusingly profane declaratives?

Drivers say bikes belong on sidewalks, pedestrians say bikes belong on roads.

The law in Seattle, however, says it is legal for bicyclists to ride on sidewalks, bike paths, and even two-abreast on roads:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.770

Say what you want about it being an asshole thing to do, but it is explicitly legal. I enjoy a little conversation on my group rides, not to mention the bonus of helping drivers decide not to squeeze by me at 40mph without even moving out of their lane (i.e. my daily commute from Pioneer Square to Kent).

Which brings up an interesting
situation. What if a pedestrian,
while walking on a sidewalk and
a bicyclist collide? What determines fault? Whose and what kind of insurance coverage applies? Has there been any
sort of case law here? Suits against bicyclists? Against pedestrians?

Now I am curious!

--- Jensen

@35

That's great, if you are riding on a state highway. How about this - for the CITY of Seattle. No two-abreast!

http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/bikecode.htm

Bikes are vehicles and belong in the street. In real cities, it's illegal to ride on the sidewalk, and it SHOULD be illegal everywhere. It is WRONG EVERYWHERE.

Even though it is legal, people who ride their bikes on the sidewalk should be knocked down, imprisoned, lethally injected, and composted, preferably all in one day.

As a vehicle, a bicycle is entitled to exactly as much of the roadway as its rider feels is necessary for safe operation. If that's the entire lane, tough shit -- the bike gets the lane.

Wow, bikes are such a hot-button that everyone missed the real news here: Dan wanted to tell a woman to suck his dick!

Zach, Seattle has the same rule as the state "No more than two abreast". Meaning up to two bikes can legally ride side by side in Seattle.

Fnarf, it's not wrong everywhere. I've been across the Montlake Bridge on the metal roadway. That was on a dry Sunday morning and there's no way I'll ride it during rush hour or in the rain.

The problems that you people think you have in Seattle are problems that the rest of the country would be really happy to have. Too many cyclists? Boo hoo! People aren't polite enough? Waaaaah. There have been 200 homicides in Baltimore so far this year.

@41: Oh, come on. As a resident of both Seattle and Baltimore I do see that Baltimore does have more problems than Seattle as a city. However! that does not diminish the importance of actually laying down some clear, concrete rules for cyclists. Nothing even close to 200 homicides happens in Seattle every year, but if we all decided to stop improving our city just because Baltimore was worse off, well what point is there in that?
No, these commenters are not whining. If you don't care about this issue, don't come here trying to belittle it.

Oh yeah, the angry yuppies who act like riding your bike on a sidewalk is a crime to mask their general hate for the world. I would run into them every so often on my bike. They're loud but usually harmless. Nobody likes a screeching blowhard, so they're usually ignored.

When I used to walk home from work (before I got exiled to the Siberia of 97th and Aurora) I would walk through the "Korean Peace Park" (or something to that effect) on North Beacon Hill.

99% of the time was uneventful: Pedestrians and cyclists co-existing nicely. But one time I was walking along in broad daylight, minding my own business and keeping to the right, when a horrid woman on a bike came up behind me and screamed "THIS IS FOR BIKES YOU DUMB FUCKER!"

I was, as they say, nonplussed. I wish I'd had the presence of mind to shove my umbrella in her spokes. She would have been marvelous pavement art.

5th and Union, today, an asshole on a bike almost ran me over on the sidewalk. No apology. Looked at me like I was at fault.
Madison and Lake Washington Blvd, today, on my way home, asshole on a bike almost ran me over on the sidewalk. Again, no apology. Looked at me like it was my fault. Y'all gotta choose. You're either a vehicle, and should be on the road, or stop mowing down pedestrians. Those of us on foot have rights, too.

Fnarf, do you really want kids learning how to ride out in the street? Or old folks? Or folks who really aren't that good at riding and would probably get turned into hood ornaments in five seconds flat?

Riding on streets is not for the timid and physically challenged anywhere. Especially not in Seattle with its extraordinarily high percentage of completely clueless drivers (the only city on the planet with traffic jams caused solely by an inability to merge).

@ 28 "It's a kill or be killed situation."

Yes, this is the pale underbelly of "polite" Seattle. Whether they drive, bike, or walk, people here are murderous in their self-absorbtion. Only in Seattle is everyone the center of their own universe where other people are always nothing more than bugs to be squashed in passing.

@ 32 "I've said it a million times - Seattleites have extreme personal space issues."

Yes, thank you so much for this tidbit of perceptiveness. Seattleites do have amazing personal space issues, whether it is sharing the road or sidewalk, or whether it is bodyslamming people in passing at every concert I've been to here, people here are ruthless in their disregard for the physical existence of everyone but themselves. And when people disregard them, they whine . . . louder and louder: "It's not fa-a-a-i-i-i-r-r. Somebody is not making me the center of their un-n-i-i-v-e-e-r-s-e.!"

Small wonder Seattle is such a second wave city, rather than the progressive edge everyone pretends it is.

I'm sort of shocked that anyone would be legally allowed to do something so dangerous as ride their bike on the sidewalk, among pedestrians. I take it that people do this because Seattle doesn't have any bike lanes--is that right?

Seattle has bike lanes. That said, bicyclists need to decide: are you a vehicle, or are you a pedestrian? If you are a vehicle, you need to follow the rules of the road as any other vehicle...this means KEEPING UP WITH TRAFFIC...NOT weaving in and out of cars...STOPPING at red lights and not going through until the light is GREEN! Sure, you're not USING fossil fuels, but holding up traffic you cause everyone else to use MORE fuel driving behind your slow, self-absorbed, self-righteous spandex-clad (and might I mention, not very attractive for the most part) asses!!!!
Are you a pedestrian? Stay on the sidewalks, wait for crosswalk signs, and be courteous to fellow pedestrians, whether they be on foot, or on some form of wheels. I nearly had a bicyclist plow into me when she ran a stop sign in the International District. I had to slam on my brakes, then she stops and waves me through like she has some authority to allow me to pass! They will suddenly swerve out into traffic without a look, without a signal. I think the city, since it's so bloody greedy, needs to SERIOUSLY look at rules/laws for bicyclists! Such as licensing to make them trackable and responsible for their stupid fuck-ups. Designate them vehicle OR pedestrian, but NOT BOTH. And start ticketing the fuckers REGULARLY when they break those laws. Craigslist rants and raves (okay, not the most erudite of the citizenry) is ALWAYS going on about them, and the bikers retort with vehemency and self-righteousness that their 'carbon credits' allegedly afford them. We all know traffic in Seattle is fucked up, to say the least, and that people in Seattle are passive-aggressive, but goddammit, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Stop sitting there whining, and DO SOMETHING, you stupid city council people!!!!! Do you ever HEAR ANYTHING your 'constituents' say? Regulate, dammit! Try and make SOMEONE besides yourselves happy. Ow. Stress headache. Good thing that at least a cure is a 'low priority crime'. Ouch.

SO I run and bike and while on a run had a short streetch where I had to run alongside the road in the shoulder, effectively in the bike lane but as a runner on the road I am going toward traffic and hugging the very edge of the pavement. I pass serious bikers all the time and give them a nod, they go right past with no difficulties. Except this one lady on a bike one day- she's coming toward me and when she sees me coming a ways in the distance she gets nervous and suddenly looses the ability to ride straight and she's weaving all over the damn place. When she gets up close she starts yelling about me being in the bike lane (there are no sidewalks or paths in this little stretch which is why I have these few hundred yards on the road to begin with). I gave her the biggest smile and told her that if she onlylearned to ride straight she wouldn't have to be so embarassed about being seen by a pedestrian... I haven't seen her on my daily run since.

I read that somewhere in Europe (the ol' 'somewhere in Europe') all bicyclists are required to have a bell on their bike and they have to use it.

I'm a bike commuter and a good one at that (I do yield to pedestrians). I've also had some shithead pedestrians do some bad stuff to me, though. Like the time some fuckhole shoved me out into Mercer Street even after I had yelled 'on your left' and passed him at a slow speed. I freaked out on him and beaned him with my bike.

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