Maybe the answer to the poor attendance can be attributed to something simpler- I'm thinking maybe it's the fact that the held it at noon on a fucking Thursday.

Some of us have to, ya know, WORK.

I marched and rallied a lot leading up to the war, and then some afterward.

As it became clear that Bush really DIDN'T pay attention (as he has so proudly disclosed to the American fucking public) and that it didn't matter...

yeah. I suppose I gave up. I mean...what do I care. It's sad. But there, I said it. What do I care. I don't know anybody over there.

(I know it's bankrupting our country, and creating lasting international policy implications)

But if we are going to do everything we can, and it doesn't matter.

What do I care?

@1, you are totally correct. Hell, I work downtown and did not know there was a protest.

Dont forget to Free Mumia

Dont forget to protect immigrant rights!

Dont forget

Oh yeah... fuck regence too for raising health care

Wait... Starbucks is evil

Oh yeah, and stop eating meat...

Also, socialism rules!

don't forget to vote for LaRouche!

---
I'm too young to be there, but were the protests around the Vietnam war so unfocused?

"What do I care?"

I care. But you are the friends you keep and I don't keep the friends who are in those protests. I wouldn't want to be associated with those LaRouche idiots, or march in a protest sponsored by the Socialists Worker Whatever...

I care...I was being super cynical. It's more like a why-waste-my-time sorta thing.

Also, there is no draft to protest. Right?

Some of us have to work for a living, and this has no reflection on our outrage at this stupid misguided, lied about war. Why would moveon have this during work hours for most of us on a freakin Thursday! Who were the 30 anyway? Pandering Politicians? The Homeless? Trust fund babies?
Have it in the evening or on a god damn weekend and you can bet we'll be there. How would losing our jobs help stop this war, but create a new war....ON POVERTY!

1. "Are we all so depressed an inured to the idea of the war, that we can no longer muster the outrage to attend protests?" Everybody's twerkin. Plus this was poorly advertised. Who wants to protest for half an hour on their lunchbreak?

2. "Is this all MoveOn can offer?" Yes.

I rest my case why the current anti-war movement has zero effect.

If it wants effect have a protest down 4th ave on Monday at 5 pm. STOP up traffic, make like a living hell and get the point across. (you think your commute is bad, try Iraq in the Summer in a Civil War) Civil disobedience and you know what, people are leaving work and just may join in with you. Make the police try to break it up. And get the media attention you want and need.

Maybe its that protests are a generally useless and antiquated form of "doing something" that accomplishes nothing more then wasting time and making hippies feel important.

Or we can pay down our massive debt. I know making the country solvent isn't as sexy as hiring new teachers or providing universal health care, but it's going to be increasingly difficult to provide current services, let alone expand them, with a massive debt hanging over our heads.

That is all great stuff keshmeshi, but what the fuck does that have to do with the war in iraq? Get your* own damn protest and stop leeching off other peoples protests!

* (you = the general you. this isn't flaming you)

Cato the Younger Younger @ 8,

We had big war protests in Seattle (which I marched in) and worldwide for years. You can see how mega-successful that was. Surge!!!

I've learned that if you want to outrage Seattleites and turn them against you, then blocking traffic at rush hour is the method of choice.

Yes, the timing of noon on a Thursday was lame, but what can it possibly accomplish anyway? It's not like Baghdad Jim needs any convincing and most other Dems and Repubs couldn't give a shit about ending the war, obviously.

All of the Repub Pres candidates want the war to go on forever and HRC, Obama, and Edwards all claim to oppose a premature withdrawal (did I just write that? eww), so I'd say it's a totally lost cause at this point.

My guess, we'll be in Iraq for another four to six years until another war, a financial crisis or the fall of Baghdad forces us out. There's potentially $25 trillion in oil in Iraq and the oil companies have said that our Empire is staying, so that's that.

Protests are stupid. Bush isn't paying attention to them for the same reason he's not paying attention to kooks with colanders on their heads. They mean nothing. They never have. If a million people is inconsequential, how important is 30 people?

You can get all that information on what the Iraq war could have bought instead, and more, in real time, at The National Priorities web site:
http://nationalpriorities.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=182

crk @ 11, do you really not see a connection between the national debt and the war? The national debt is BECAUSE OF the war.

@11,

Did you not read the post? The protestors were making hay over what we could have/should have spent those billions of dollars on. It apparently never crosses their minds that those billions of dollars are on loan.

Loans that are coming due in the world credit market right about now.

@ Original Andrew, you are right, Why the fuck should we do anything? Hell, let's not even vote in 2008. Will someone explain to me why everyone gives up without even trying? And what is wrong with pissing off Seattle drivers? REALITY CHECK!! The problem is no one IS pissed off about it (it being the war).

You know during the labor movement of the late 19th century workers who were pissed off burned the homes of Senators, rioted in the streets and guess what? They started to get labor protection. (Politicians are scared of one thing and that is the masses rising up in protest) If you want change then you have to force the argument without worrying about "angering Seattle Drivers". You can not be serious in thinking that our commute home is more important than doing all we can to stop a war that in a region that DESTROYED the British Empire, ruined Alexander the Great, helped bring down the Soviets and Rome would not even venture into the area in the first place.

I would dare say the sheer appathy in your posting is nearly as criminal as those who lead us into this war under false pretense. You are enabling them to continue.

Bush will be at the Hyatt in Bellevue on the 27th. I think I will bring my Republicans Are America's Real Enemy signs.

Cato, blocking traffic just gets commuters pissed off at the protesters, not the war. They may or may not already disapprove of the war, but making them late for their kid's baseball game is not going to endear them to your side. You are partly correct, in that part of the problem is that no one is pissed off about the war. But blocking traffic just gets people pissed off at you.

I participated in a few protests before the war started, and one after it started. I was completely disheartened by how disjointed the protests are, and how filled with kooks and anarchists they are. Bush has made it clear time and time again that he could care less about what any protesters say, or even what congress says.

So, yeah, I'd say protests are pretty much useless at this point. It is sad to see that MoveOn can only muster 30 protesters. It just makes them look pathetic.

To make a protest work, you need:
- massive pre-protest publicity
- massive numbers of real people with minimal kooks
- ONE and only one highly charismatic speaker
- ONE and only one clear, concise, rock solid message
- massive post-protest publicity

The MoveOn protest had none of these, and was doomed to fail from the outset. To be fair, I'm not convinced anyone is capable of pulling off a truly effective protest in this city any more.

So there IS a real protest being planned for Sept. 11. Google it. And it IS on a Tuesday because that's when Sept. 11 falls... sorry for all of you who have to work.... the idea is that people LEAVE work and shut the fucking city DOWN. And I am a librarian at the Seattle Public Library by the way, not an anarchist or a colander wearing kook....

This MoveOn.org event was a press release focused on getting information to the media and to the representatives. The purpose was not to get a large crowd, invitations were not sent out to the public but was to release a report of the Cost of War through our media, which frankly does a very poor job of researching this information and providing it to the public and to our elected representatives. MoveOn.org is planning a rally on August 28th which sounds more to your expectations of a protest against the war. This of course, is all leading up to the voting on the ending and funding of the Iraq War in September. The event on Thursday the 16th was a success since the goals were accomplished 1) get the media there...Channel 5 and 13 News were there filming the press release and we reached our representative. Although Jim McDermott is very supportive of ending the war, he needs as was told to this same group (Seattle's Operation Democracy an on the ground arm of MoveOn.org) back in January at a meeting with him his constituents to keep pushing hard on this issue as it gives him validity on the issue back in Washington. It becomes not just his opinion or his issue, but all those he represents.

http://www.911blogger.com/node/10421

As one of the speakers at this press conference, all I have to say to Sage is it was a PRESS CONFERENCE, not a protest. That's why we invited the press. Too bad you didn't bother to talk to some of us so we could have told you it was a press conference. I thought it was pretty obvious.

We also wanted to show our support for Jim McDermott since he gets slimed alot by both the Republicans and even more so by the Democratic Party, probably because he's one of the few Democrats in the entire country who has the balls to stand up against the President and his crime gang. For some reason, that pisses off the fixtures in the Democratic party who have stupidly taken impeachment off the table.

@15 The money was spent on the war, and yes we all know that we are borrowing tons of money and getting ourselves in huge debt and I'm thinking someone is going to pay for this at some time...., but still the money was spent and it could have been spent on something that actually brought a better quality of life to us in Seattle and true security ...or it could have been not spent, which I think is a great idea. On another note, the PRESS CONFERENCE was planned for 20 minutes, which we delayed slightly so Nick Licate could speak, because he thought it was an important enough issue to the people of Seattle. Unfortnately, Jean Godden who also wanted to attend wasn't free until 1pm, she did send her support for the issue. Lastly, everyone doesn't work M-F 8-5, we have a 24/7 world going these days and everyone doesn't get the ideal shift! The members of the Operation Democracy counsel are made up of mostly working people with some retirees. Some people have their own businesses with the flexibility to be able to attend what other people would consider times they couldn't get away from their work. Whether I've been working full time or not, I have found a way to attend rallies, press conferences, workshops and other events because it's a priority to me. I do care and am compelled to try to make a difference even when I feel I'm fighting Goliath. This doesn't mean I don't have flaws, faults and contradicitons as I would guess everyone else does. And I think it would be ridicules to assume that I would need to know everything there is to know about an issue before knowing that it is wrong and trying to put an end to it.