Slog News & Arts

Line Out

Music & Nightlife

« The Turn | Today The Stranger Suggests... »

Thursday, August 16, 2007

Letter of the Day

posted by on August 16 at 10:32 AM

BROADWAY IS A SHITHOLE

EDITOR: I relocated back to Capitol Hill last April after having moved away and back, a few times, over the past 17 years.

When I originally arrived here from Boston in 1990, we had a 7th floor, city/sound view apartment for $425.00 a month. Broadway was vibrant with the many businesses, including supermarkets, banks, a multitude of many different types of restaurants, boutiques and other stores that made Broadway and the surrounding streets unique and quite charming.

There was very little graffiti, no litter, and only the occasional bum among the eclectic array of people who populated the area and were seen on Broadway.

Today, I ask myself daily, “WHY did you move back here”?
(The answer is because of familiarity).

That same $425 apartment now rents for $1300.
Empty stores abound. Stickers and paint cover signs, walls and windows.
Newspapers and other trash blow around in the breeze. But the most disturbing and annoying thing that is so “in your face” are the vagrants, addicts and beggars that line both sides of Broadway from Roy to Union St at any time of the day and night..

I live near Republican and work near Union. Because my car was stolen 2 weeks after we arrived here, I walk to and from work. I avoid Broadway at all costs.

Today, I had to go on Broadway, to stop in a store on the way to work.
As I walked along Broadway, I counted how many times I was aked for money.
I stopped counting at 23 times.

Along the way, I saw 4 people still asleep in the doorways of businesses.
I saw one guy sticking a needle in his arm in another doorway near the corner of Denny.
A girl with about $500 worth of metal in her face from piercings, holding a Starbucks cup, asked me for a cigarette. Over by the public restroom were a couple standing there, eyes closed, weaving slowly back and forth, obviously having just gotten high in the restroom.
The sidewalks reek of urine. You can smell feces as you pass some places.
It is absolutely disgusting.

What is going on here?
Where are the police?
Why arent the (remaining) business owners speed dialing 911 on a constant basis to remove these vagrants?
Why do BOTH QFC supermarkets allow these people to sit by their front doors all day harrassing people for money?
How can Dicks Deluxe allow the groups of beggars to take up camp 15 feet from where people are ordering food and taking out their wallets?
Why does Washington Mutual not have their security people move the beggars who sit 5 feet from the outdoor ATM all day asking for money?
I won’t support any business who allow loitering outside their door.

I just don’t get it.
Broadway has turned into a 1st Class GHETTO.
Why is nothing being done about it?

I can’t wait for my least to be up next April.
When I move from here this time, it will be the LAST time.
In case I don’t see you next April, Bub-bye Seattle. It’s been real.

And please, don’t EVEN get me started on Downtown junkies, beggars and crack-whores along Pine/Pike between 4th and 2nd.

Chris Canary

RSS icon Comments

1

And people ask me why I think drug policy is so important...

Posted by thehim | August 16, 2007 10:40 AM
2

I would give the guy a map of Seattle to show that there are other neighborhoods besides Capitol Hill and downtown that are close to places where one can work, but, you know, fuck this guy.

Posted by matthew fisher wilder | August 16, 2007 10:41 AM
3

I live near Republican and work near Union. Because my car was stolen 2 weeks after we arrived here, I walk to and from work. I avoid Broadway at all costs.

This explains all of Chris Canary's troubles - the bad karma of driving such a short distance to work. Erica Barnett probably planted all of the vagrants, addicts, and litter to punish Chris.

- JMR (former Cap Hill resident)

Posted by JMR | August 16, 2007 10:43 AM
4

I thought Seattle was ALWAYS like this. This guys telling me it used to be much better? Hard to believe, but then, I wasn't hanging out on CapHill (then heroin capital of North America) in the early '90s. You tell me, folks: Does this guy have a rose-tinted view of the past?
And obligatory amen to the guy mentioning drug policy. Legalizing drugs (and investing in the attendant health programs) is blatantly the only solution to these ills.

Posted by christopher | August 16, 2007 10:43 AM
5

I've been here 4 years. Any old schoolers wanna back this guy up? Was Broadway all nice and neat? Hard to believe.

Gotta admit, the legions of pan handlers are fucking annoying. I pretty much avoid Broadway at all costs. What Capitol Hill needs is a man like Rudy Giuliani... remember when he loaded all the homeless on a boat and sank it in the east river? Man, that was awesome.

Posted by rotten666 | August 16, 2007 10:51 AM
6

Where are the police?

In the strip clubs, with tape measures, getting lapdances.

If you want the mayor to take an interest in cleaning up your neighborhood, you better hope a night club opens nearby.

Posted by Orv | August 16, 2007 10:51 AM
7

I think Seattle just felt safer back when I was a kid inhe 1990s walking to the Ave from wallingford by myself (at 10 years old).

It's not any worse now than then, in fact, crime has actually gone down.

Also, since 1990 to today, we've had inflation! Gas isn't the same price, t-shirts aren't the same price, mcdonald's is't the same price, blah bah blah.

"I remember when I could buy a coke or a nickel, boy doesn't life suck today" just go hide in the corner old man, we've had enough of you.

Posted by Andrew | August 16, 2007 10:53 AM
8

He's absolutely right. Broadway used to be a magnet, the most exciting strip in the city. It had actually declined by 1990, but was still very much alive. Pike/Pine sucked all the juice out of it, the junkies moved in, and it's dead now. I wouldn't walk the length of Broadway now for anything; why would I? What's there?

Posted by fnarf | August 16, 2007 10:54 AM
9

So move to Fremont or Ballard like the rest of us.

Posted by Will in Seattle | August 16, 2007 10:57 AM
10

Dude--neighborhoods change. The same process that brought the vibrancy you describe to Broadway (which, in the 80s, was even worse than it is now) also moved it away.

Posted by Seth | August 16, 2007 10:58 AM
11

Frankly, Chris, I can't wait for you to leave either. Last winter the One Night Count found almost 8000 folks without homes. Over 2100 without even a shelter bed. We didn't all grow up with rich, caring, drug-free parents, and if you stopped for a second of your (obviously very important) life to talk to some of these folks, you might just have your pathetic little sheltered ego deflated enough to not constantly broadcast your sense of entitlement and superiority.

Seriously, can anyone read this:

"When I move from here this time, it will be the LAST time.
In case I don’t see you next April, Bub-bye Seattle. It’s been real."

without cracking up at the childish, pouty, egocentric tone of it? "Bub-bye?"

Posted by BooHooHoo | August 16, 2007 11:00 AM
12

Broadway has always been a trashy shit hole. It just used to be a more interesting trashy shit hole.

Posted by monkey | August 16, 2007 11:01 AM
13

When I was in high school 13 or so years ago Broadway WAS nice. My girlfriends and I hung out there every day without being hassled. There were many fewer empty storefronts and I never saw the now-common needles in arms, piles of human crap, or much graffiti. It was the shopping destination in Seattle before downtown went ritzy, and a great mashup of punks, gays, students, artists, and young professionals hanging out, shopping, and people watching.

Posted by Amy Kate Horn | August 16, 2007 11:01 AM
14

My boyfriend and I decided last weekend to extend our (ridiculously overpriced) lease because Broadway/Capitol Hill is the only neighborhood that even feels remotely urban. I'll take a few gutter punks in exchange for not having to own a car, classic arms-style apartments, an awesome park, and some neighborhood character. Even if that character includes a few junkies.

Posted by mary-kate | August 16, 2007 11:01 AM
15

Where are the police?

So what if they are there? When I've seen the police approach the vagrants in front of Dick's, all they do is ensure that they aren't sitting on the sidewalk. Standing is OK.

Presumably, there is a vagrancy law against sitting there, but not against standing there.

Or, there is a stronger law on the books that the police refuse to enforce.

Posted by JMR | August 16, 2007 11:02 AM
16

Because people like the Stranger writers say that vagrants and transients on the street are good for urban character.

It's crap. Someone needs to sweep the streets, even if it means throwing the whole lot of them on a train car and sending them to Oregon.

Yes, that's lacking in sympathy and no, I'm not willing to argue the point.

Also, the police are busy picking on black people.

Posted by Gomez | August 16, 2007 11:03 AM
17

Any city so clean it doesn't have vagrants and public drug use (which this guy apparently can't handle at all)will usually also be a boring wasteland. He sounds like he needs to move to Tulsa or some shit.

And this is a little off-topic, but what the hell is up with that Whiskey Bar ad I keep seeing on the Stranger site? A scantily-clad woman fondling a knife while a river of dollar bills flows out of her vagina? Hmm. I'm not saying I disapprove necessarily, but sheesh.

Posted by Matthew | August 16, 2007 11:03 AM
18

broadway is terrible now. even when i moved here 14 years ago it was much better than it is now. i avoid that street at all costs. the junkies and beggars have gotten worse in my opinion and it's sucking the life out of that street. now they're starting to overrun Cal Anderson park. everyday there are more passed out drunks, packs of stinky meth heads and other disgusting shitheads occupying the park. Cal Anderson will be the premier drug den of Seattle in a year or two if nothing is done to stop these junkies.

simple plan: insert lethal batch of herion at a super cheap cost. watch and laugh as the junkies OD. if they want to shoot junk to escape from reality, how about we provide that ultimate, final escape?

other plan: pissed off citizens sneak down to Cal Anderson during the night and set the bums on fire, douse them with paint or piss on them.

why doesn't seattle have those teens who like to beat junkies until they're dead?

Posted by turtle_head | August 16, 2007 11:03 AM
19

Yes, I remember Broadway back from the mid-late 1980s. While not entirely pristine, it was very vibrant and alive. Interesting little independent shops and restaurants along the whole strip, with never a single vacancy. Three fabulous desert places. It wasn't completely devoid of vagrants, litter, and graffiti, but there was very little of it. It has been in slow decline since the early 1990s. I don't agree that it is as bad as Chris claims, but it is true that it is a shadow of its former glory.

Posted by SDA in SEA | August 16, 2007 11:04 AM
20

I'm with fnarf & letter-writing Chris. Broadway has deteriorated, and it's not just the rose-tint of the past that's faded it. I avoid Broadway becuase I don't want to have to steel myself simply to walk down the street --- I just want to be able to walk down the fucking street. Broadway is full of impotent rage.

And I don't buy that crime is down. Crime stats, maybe.

Posted by Peggy | August 16, 2007 11:05 AM
21

There were just as many junkies and spangers on Broadway in '92 as there are now. And Pike/Pine was crawling with junkies back then, not to mention the prostitutes.

Ah, those were the days...

Posted by Sean | August 16, 2007 11:05 AM
22

Broadway was the spot back in the 90's, there were still homeless people but fewer and for whatever reason they seemed to have better manners - probably because cool shop owners only tolerated the nice bums. Chain store employees have no vested interest in shooing away junkies, during dot com rents on Braodway went up and they never really came back down to a reasonable market rate so most of the small businesses failed because they took a double hit - end of dot com and rent hikes. Pike/Pine was the only section where rents were still cheap so all the cool businesses moved there. Now they'll have to move to 12th. Oh well, isn't this how cities change over time, isn't this normal?

Posted by morgan | August 16, 2007 11:06 AM
23

i can back him up - it was better on Bway in the late grunge era. i moved out to view ridge 10 (?) years ago. i can hear frogs & birds from my house instead of fucking i-5.

i think what's changed is the heroin. LOTS more junkies on the streets now than back then. although back then we used the junkies to scare the fuck out of our kids r.e. hard drugs. it worked.

the junk was in the city then, obviously. but it wasn't as visible on B'way. probably because someone in the junkie group could hold down a job & pay the rent on a place to shoot up. which cost MUCH less then than now.

Posted by maxsolomon | August 16, 2007 11:06 AM
24

Amy Kate- Any chance you're having false memories of a kinder gentler time? Maybe when you were in high school the scumbags went easy on you and you forgot they existed? I don't know. Mary Kate- Agreed with you. Sadly, my gf hates "urban" life, in all its might-get-you-knifed-by-hobos glory. No spirit of adventure on that girl.
-

Posted by christopher | August 16, 2007 11:07 AM
25

hey #2- thanks, that made my morning.

and you, #18- cal anderson is amazing compared to what it used to be. oh, and you're disgusting.

Posted by kate | August 16, 2007 11:08 AM
26

I love Broadway. I have been here for six years and I can't imagine living elsewhere. I love the interaction between all walks of life and that there is alsways some truly crazy shit to see late at night on Broadway.

I was staying with my ex-boy at the Heights on Olive and Broadway and I would stare out at the post office corner some nights from midnight to 2am and I can't explain how very relaxing it is to see such a strange variety of activities going up and down Broadway.

For those who dream of cleaning Broadway up and getting rid of those they feel are undesirable...fuck off, and pick a different neighborhood. Broadway is its own personality and it fills a niche in the city.

Here is a helpful guide, neighborhoods ranked from most gentrified to least (my information and view of these places is far from complete so take it as you will):

Madison Valley
Queen Anne
West Edge (WTF!)
Belltown
Cap Hill
First Hill
Downtown
Pioneer Square
International District
Central District

From my reading, mr Canary is at least three neighborhoods too far down on the list.

Posted by johnny | August 16, 2007 11:08 AM
27

Um, bullshit, Sean. You can romanticize it if it makes you feel tougher, but it was different then. And the 80s? The early 80s is the limit of my expertise, having moved away for the latter part, but Broadway was a paradise in the early 80s compared to now.

Posted by Fnarf | August 16, 2007 11:11 AM
28

When I moved here in '92, Broadway was a major destination for shopping, eating, evening entertainment, etc. There were homeless people, but they were in the minority, nowhere near as aggressive as they are now, and most of them were friendly people in need of a hand -- at that time I more than willingly contributed to many of the individuals whom I saw on a regular basis. You could walk Broadway at 2AM without a care in the world -- there were always LOTS of people around and you never felt the least bit threatened. Yes, there was some violence, drug use, and crime, but it was always low key and kept below the radar. Things have changed drastically in the last 15 years in this neighborhood, and not for the better.

Posted by BWP | August 16, 2007 11:11 AM
29

bye!

Posted by josh | August 16, 2007 11:13 AM
30

I'm going to (as usual) go against the flow and agree with the letter-writer. I'm here temporarily and, having come from Austin, TX, am astounded by the large number of vagrants in this city. Maybe you people have gotten used to them, but saying "It was always like this" is no good; the truth is that it could be much MUCH better.

I really love this city and it hurts me to have to field questions such as "Why are there so many homeless people here?" when my friends and family come to visit... I want them to see the great stuff about Seattle, but they can't get past their fear and unease about the homeless population.

Sidenote: The population here is different too; not just homeless, but desperate, addicted, introverted. On Guadalupe in Austin you see the vagrants having a grand old time with each other, chatting it up and forming coalitions; sure they're homeless, but they seem to have hope. I don't see that here, maybe the mental health care systems are lacking, I don't know, but I could see why one would avoid Broadway: it's depressing.

"Move to Ballard/Freemont" is a stupid line. The downtown area should be the happening place and heart of any decent city, not the heart of corruption and vice. Blame the mayor all you want, but one man alone is not the solution to this problem.

Posted by Jason Petersen | August 16, 2007 11:16 AM
31

I am going to miss Capitol Hill.

I wish we had -more- street kids asking for smokes and drunk bums crapping in the bushes. The condo-buyers would freak out and stop pushing renters out, many of whom love the neighborhood as it is.

I'm moving this weekend after living here 4 years. I won't be the only one to miss Capitol Hill: It is slowly disappearing and being replaced with something tidier, more marketable, and completely detestable.

Posted by tabletop_joe | August 16, 2007 11:17 AM
32

It's crap. Someone needs to sweep the streets, even if it means throwing the whole lot of them on a train car and sending them to Oregon.

Replace "Oregon" with "Victoria BC", and you've describe Vancouver's current civic clean-up plan in action for the 2010 Winter Games.

If you hate homeless people, do not go to Victoria until after 2010.

Posted by matthew fisher wilder\ | August 16, 2007 11:19 AM
33

#31

AGREED! I am thinking of starting a coalition of people to get together after the bars close to piss on the sidewalk on their walks home. In the six years I have been here the smell of piss on Broadway has decreased dramatically...I remember when no one dared leave there apartment before noon on sunday during the summer for fear of an ammonia overdose.

Ah, the good ole days.

Posted by johnny | August 16, 2007 11:21 AM
34

I really love this city and it hurts me to have to field questions such as "Why are there so many homeless people here?" when my friends and family come to visit... I want them to see the great stuff about Seattle, but they can't get past their fear and unease about the homeless population.

Is this seriously the main reason? Because mom and dad might have to wrinkle their eyes at times?

Man, if I had to worry about that whenever I lived anywhere, I'd be trapped in suburban despair for life!

Just a spinoff thought, that's all.

Posted by matthew fisher wilder | August 16, 2007 11:24 AM
35

i'm a born and raised seattlite. lived just off broadway, off and on for the past 15 years. i live near joe bar now. broadway has gone up and down over the past decade and a half, but my way to keep it going up is to use broadway as my walking avenue of choice. i workout up there, get my coffee, walk to my boyfriends place, do my grocery shopping, banking, dining, gift buying, whatever i possibly can do to support the local businesses. that's my contribution to creating a vibrant neighborhood. as for the homeless, i buy a real change when i can, and have the balls to ignore the assholes.

Posted by benjr | August 16, 2007 11:27 AM
36

#34 "wrinkle their eyes"

You just insured that I am going to be having nightmares, thanks man.

Posted by johnny | August 16, 2007 11:27 AM
37

Give me a break.

Seattle doesn't have ghettos like other major cities. Why on earth would you move to a neighborhood before you went there and checked it out.

If you don't like people asking for money, ignore them. If you're that concerned about where you live move.

People around here need to learn to deal with things.

Posted by Smegmalicious | August 16, 2007 11:28 AM
38

Here's an idea:

Move all the homeless people to Bellevue, and film it for a reality show. It's like the odd couple on a larger scale!

HI-LARIOUS!

Posted by UNPAID BLOGGER | August 16, 2007 11:28 AM
39

As somewhat irritating and prickish as this letter writer is, he is right about the area having seen better days. I used to live up here and still work on the Hill but it doesn't seem that bad to me, though.

I remember Broadway being awesome in 1995/1996 ish. Clean and pumped up with fashionable people and shopping. It was a lot like Robson and Davie are in Vancouver now. Here's a shocking newsflash, neighborhoods change over time, sometimes radically. That happens in every city.

And excuse me, about 90% of the people in this city live outside Capitol Hill, so it's not the only game in town. Hello Ballard, Fremont and West Seattle that are on the way up.

So, so long Chris Canary. I'm sure wherever you settle will be a utopian, problem-free paradise. Did anyone else think of 'canary in a coal mine?'

Posted by Original Andrew | August 16, 2007 11:33 AM
40

When I moved here in 1995, I thought I wanted to live in the heart of the gay district. But when I drove down Broadway on a Saturday afternoon, it was PACKED with people on the sidewalks and cars cruising the strip, so I thought "too much congestion... better to visit than live in the middle of...", and I settled in Greenlake. I loved coming over the Broadway and just hanging out...walking the street (not like THAT), patronizing the stores and restaurants and theatres...sometimes kicking myself for not living on the Hill.

But that's all changed.

I come to the Hill several times a week and I have to agree with Chris: Even for someone who now just DRIVES down Broadway, it has fallen a long way in the past 10 years. Aside from a rare late night stop at the Grill or Deluxe, there's nothing to cause me to want to get out of the car anywhere on Broadway any more.

I think one of the root causes for the City's (Mayor, Council, Police) lack of intervention is the fact that Capitol Hill is primarily composed of renters, who are typically more transient than not. And renters don't pay property taxes and probably are less likely to vote. And the property owners are probably living on the Eastside, and thus don't vote for the Seattle city government positions. So it's much easier for our local "leaders" to just pretend the problems of Broadway don't exist and spend the tax dollars in the neighborhoods that influence election outcomes. And even if we DID have a Guilliani style crackdown on Broadway, would people here really allow that to happen without a protest riot or two?

Posted by Transplant | August 16, 2007 11:34 AM
41

I have to agree that Broadway when I first moved to Seattle in 1995 was far better than it is today. But I do not think I would call it some sort of utopia back then but the guys were MUCH better looking and hell, just about all of them were gay.

Part of the thought though is that things were better in the past then the present. Why? The present is right in our faces and the past is not. There were panhandlers in 1995, but I do not think nearly as many or as aggressive and a couple store fronts were empty; certianly not like it is now.

Rents though were pretty damn high on the Hill when I moved here back then and they still are. But mostly I miss the fact it was a gay friendly street you could walk down at night as compared to what it is now. Oh yeah, better looking guys 12 years ago and LOTS of places to cruise for sexy meat! Broadway Market, the Seattle's Best Coffee....

Posted by Cato the YY | August 16, 2007 11:39 AM
42

Amen. I just wish a good rain would come down and wash all this trash off the sidewalk . . .

Posted by Travis Bickle | August 16, 2007 11:39 AM
43

Broadway is shit. I generally want to punch any seemingly work-capable, face-pierced, sidewalk-sitting, dog-owning, belligerent pseudo-punk panhandler that refuses to get off their ass and work like the rest of us. Also, when I cannot make it from my shitty job to the liquor store to buy a cheap pint and back across the street to take a rickety #49 to my overpriced abode without being harassed, something is clearly fucked.

Posted by Miss Stereo | August 16, 2007 11:41 AM
44

Im with 37. But the way I deal with these things, and my girlfriend does, is we just walk along parallel streets to broadyway and then cross over to our destination.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | August 16, 2007 11:42 AM
45

Agreed, Miss Stereo.

Posted by Ryan | August 16, 2007 11:44 AM
46

Broadway used to be awesome until all those pricks from Boston showed up.

Posted by Boylston | August 16, 2007 11:51 AM
47

why must we all live in the past? comparisons of what we may or may not have had then and what we may or may not have now are of no use.

Posted by boxofbirds | August 16, 2007 11:53 AM
48

this dude won't be happy anywhere:

http://www.maxpages.com/vavavoom

Posted by doug | August 16, 2007 11:55 AM
49

What a whiny bitch. This really got me:

"A girl with about $500 worth of metal in her face from piercings, holding a Starbucks cup, asked me for a cigarette."

Fuck you. Your poor, innocent, virgin eyes. So, what? All the "vagrants, beggars, and addicts" should be taken out back and shot so you can skip through Mayberry? Welcome to the city and urban decay.

Posted by JessB | August 16, 2007 11:56 AM
50

im going to ask my girlfriend while im at lunch with her about her opinion. she lived just off broadway on thomas for 10 years in a condo so she'll have the lowdown. Ill report back.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | August 16, 2007 11:57 AM
51

Fnarf @27
Commerce on Broadway has declined, but the junkies and beggars have been a constant presence since I arrived on Capitol Hill in '92.

Remember Mark Sidran's "no sitting on the sidewalk" ordinance in '94? That was the result of the same hysterical shrieking about junkies and beggars that you're reading here. It was no better or worse back then.

What's changed, perhaps, is that you and Chris Canary have grown old and fussy.

Posted by Sean | August 16, 2007 11:58 AM
52

As far as rent, $1300 FAR outpaces inflation. that's insane. I live in Montreal, and the most I EVER paid out of 3 apartments was $530, which was right downtown (real tall buildings one block down), and that place had free heat. Also, back then the Canadian dollar was like 80 cents, making it really something more like $400.

Just sayin'.

Also my gf from Toronto found the number of homeless people rather freakish. I think it probably has something to do with a widening rich poor gap and a system that doesn't give a fuck.

Posted by john | August 16, 2007 11:58 AM
53

BREAKING NEWS!! Mayor Lardass is outside Westlake Center talking about how bad downtown is (how long has he been mayor now?) Wonder why he does not go up to Broadway and talk about Broadway going to hell?

Posted by Cato the YY | August 16, 2007 11:58 AM
54

What a bunch of whiny assholes. You'd think the mere presence of beggars was physically painful to you. If you don't want to give the panhandlers money, don't. I've never had one bother me after having turned them down. I've never feared for my life walking down Broadway, either.

The one legitimate complaint is that the stores on Broadway aren't all that interesting. I don't know how to fix that, since the problem is the ridiculously high rents in the area.

Posted by F | August 16, 2007 12:06 PM
55

Cato @53...

See last paragraph of post @40

That's why Greggie Poo isn't on Broadway right now.

Posted by Transplant | August 16, 2007 12:07 PM
56

Doug @48...

THAT is a MOST enlightening website. Good reporting!

Chris Canary has lost all credibility to complain, even though I might agree with him.

What a nut.

Posted by Transplant | August 16, 2007 12:09 PM
57

It's all true.

The golden age of Broadway was probably 1996-1999. By 2002 it was getting scuzzy. I'm a little fuzzy on the dates. I used to think there couldn't be a better neighborhood than Broadway. I moved away a couple of years ago.

I think Pike/Pine and 15th took a lot of Broadway's action.

Pacific Place and University Village aren't helping either.

Posted by chris | August 16, 2007 12:21 PM
58

Wasn't there a big push with Peter Steinbreuck above five years ago to improve Broadway? I don't think that went anywhere.

Posted by chris | August 16, 2007 12:22 PM
59

welcome to San Francisco North!

Posted by dawn | August 16, 2007 12:22 PM
60

A friend of mine was asked to "spare some change for food" by a homeless person with a cat. She promptly replied "why don't you eat your cat?"

Posted by mattro2.0 | August 16, 2007 12:24 PM
61

I can only speak from more recent experience, compared to some commenters, but I spent a lot of time on Broadway starting in 2000, then lived a block off of Broadway & John for 3.5 yrs (2002-2005), and I think there was a surprisingly marked deterioration just during that time, specifically around 2004 -- it got noticeably dirtier, noisier, and with more shady characters and obvious drug problems. (I still go up and down Broadway quite frequently.)

Posted by David | August 16, 2007 12:27 PM
62

Why is it that so many of you are pissed off that someone doesn't like the panhandling beggars? I recently walked down Broadway and was asked for money 12 times in three blocks -- and yes I was harassed about not giving them any money. Want to keep independent businesses on Broadway -- make it a desirable place for people to come a shop/drink/eat. People don't spend money where they are uncomfortable and right now Broadway is not a destination. The only shops that can afford high rent and few customers are chains and it will stay that way until more people are willing to populate Broadway.

Oh, and having homeless and beggars does not make Broadway edgy or urban or not-Belltown.

Posted by madteaparty | August 16, 2007 12:31 PM
63

I moved to Capitol Hill in 1993 and didn't think much of it then, having lived in San Francisco in the past. Still, it pretty much seemed like the place to be in Seattle. Now I never go to Broadway, it's a shithole. It's ugly. There's nothing there. Yes, there's always been street people and trash on the streets, but at least in the past Broadway/Capitol hill seemed vital with interesing places to go and cool people. So, neighborhoods change, and this one's no different. It makes me laugh though that Capitol Hill people look down on people living in Ballard and other areas. Jokes on you Capitol Hill/Broadway rats......it's like you're happy to be fucking an old worn out whore that's been passed around a few time many times. Enjoy.

Posted by P. | August 16, 2007 12:34 PM
64

Seattle Police stink. Do police everywhere stink? Is there some place where people are happy with the police?

Vagrants stink. Yes, too many on Broadway.

I don't think it is as bad as this guy says it is though.

Make the dumb drugs legal. Regulate it. Right?

Posted by Mansion | August 16, 2007 12:35 PM
65

@ Letter-writing Chris: Don't let the door hit you on the way out, you wussy twit.

Yah, Broadway sucks. But it's the kind of suck a real city has. Seattle's changing from a national city to a global city (thanks, Kurt!), and with it comes pros and cons.

Pro: the average income in Seattle is higher than most places in the country.

Con: Junkies shoot up and shit out on a 10-block long strip of semi-boarded up businesses.

Broadway is not Seattle, Christ Chris, don't judge the whole city from one street.

Posted by Matt Fuckin' Hickey | August 16, 2007 12:37 PM
66

I live on 11th, and walk on Broadway all the time. I didn't have that huge of a problem with it. Until I nearly stepped on a USED TAMPON in the middle of the sidewalk. Did someone just pull it out while she was walking? Did she pull it out somewhere else and put it in the middle of the sidewalk as a "fuck you"? Questions abound.

Posted by Ahiro | August 16, 2007 12:43 PM
67

Too many people on this sting of "thoughtful" insight really enjoy writing the problems off with Broadway as "life in a big city so deal with it". NEWSFLASH!! Seattle is not a big city. It is barely a mid-sized city and if we do not deal with some of the problems on Broadway, and the U-District (why no one has mentioned that delightful experience in cleanliness is beyond me) by the time Seattle becomes a "big city" it is going to be so damn nasty no one is going to want to live anywhere near Capital Hill. And the problems are going to be much worse than the panhandlers or druggies.

Posted by Cato the YY | August 16, 2007 12:46 PM
68

0) The "Save Old Seattle" sticker jackass can kiss my hairy ass. The *one* thing I can give that guy credit for is that he is consistent. I'll see that sticker on the taco-bell lot, an empty parking lot, or a 3 story old-school house.

1) The hippie factor is annoying and can really wear you down. Too many "you are evil for everything" posters & stickers like the "Save Old Seattle" stickers on every land-use sign.

2) I always try to walk down Broadway.

3) Remove the center left-turn thing on broadway and:

- make the sidewalks larger

- at least repave them (I'd imagine these are in the works, but are to be done after Sound Transit is finished trashing the street during construction...)

4) Despite the "Save Old Seattle" jackass, the new buildings on the end of Broadway *are* the part of the solution. I don't know why that idiot thinks the QFC or Safeway are so special and should be saved, but at least he is very consistent & non-discriminatory about those stickers...

5) More *real* restaurants on Broadway. You been on 15th lately? Yeah. Those guys have lots of cool restaurants with nice outdoor seating...
6) Cal Anderson is the hands down the best park in Seattle and should serve as a model for future public space. Seriously. Whoever the architect was that designed it should be awarded a medal or something. Too bad the Olympic Sculpture Park designers didn't take notes...

7) The QFC, too, is one of the best grocery stores in Seattle. Seriously, it is like culture shock going to other grocery stores... People have these giant lumbering shopping carts. They don't even have good imported tomatoes!

8) It is Capitol Hill. Nothing annoys me more than people who mis-spell Capitol. Capital Hill doesn't even make sense unless you are implying it is a giant mound of money or something.

Verdict?

I love Capitol Hill. I also love the new development up here and someday I just might buy one of those new-fangled condos. All I have to do now is think of a witty comeback to write over those "Save Old Seattle" stickers...

Posted by crk on bellevue ave | August 16, 2007 12:47 PM
69

i think the city is just letting Bway rot until the light rail station is done.

Posted by maxsolomon | August 16, 2007 12:48 PM
70

I've lived near roadway for 22 years. The biggest change has been population.
There are just a lot more of us, workers,retirees, students, druggies, and homeless alike. All of the side streets used to have a lot more houses which are now condo sites. Density has its costs, Belltown used to be more pleasant as well.

Posted by inkweary | August 16, 2007 12:51 PM
71

Oh.. and to be a bit more on topic.

There is a very big difference (in my eyes) between the couple of people who sell real change, that really good violin guy, and the guys picking stuff out of the trash versus those damn kids with their dogs.
To sound like a complete jackass, those damn kids were imported from the U-District once it got cleaned up. Clean up Broadway and they will go somewhere else. I'll tolerate the real homeless and the real good fakers, but those damn kids ain't getting anything from me. There is a difference between being unemployable (mental illness, etc) and refusing to get a job for some kind of psudeo-deep philosophical reason. Get a job!


... Now those perma-drunk Native-American guys who hang out within a 3 block radius of bellevue & pine - those guys can dish out a mean dish of jackass. The friendly bum they are not. There is some fiery hatred in those eyes!

Posted by crk on bellevue ave | August 16, 2007 12:56 PM
72

I've lived on Capitol Hill off and on since 1979, but I only started spending a lot of time on Broadway when I moved here before my freshman year of high school in 1985. There have pretty much always been a lot of homeless people in Seattle and on Broadway, but they didn't used to spange nearly as much as they do now. That started in the late grunge period, around '93, when the combination of the party atmosphere and the software money started attracting a lot of parasites to the area.

And that's what they are, by the way.

I've been homeless in Seattle and I've never had to go around fucking begging for change or cigarettes. There are plenty of better ways to make a living, even for someone with tattoos on their face. Most of the people who do that shit, especially on Broadway, are either stupid kids who think it's cool, alcoholics who like the fact that none of the ultra-liberal residents give them a hard time for pissing in the street, or junkies who are basically a combination of stupid kids and alcoholics. The other group are schizophrenics and other mentally disabled types who actually should be locked up instead of left wandering around the streets being fucked with by predators.

Broadway went through a very brief period of time, about 15 years ago, when there was money and opportunity for a wide range of people, and that positive atmosphere created a sense of community that overshadowed the layer of scum that just tends to collect in cities. But the money went elsewhere and now all that's left are these useless exploitive parasites. They have their interests firmly in hand: money, drugs, places to sleep in a city where the weather's pretty mild. And they pursue those interests to the exclusion of my interests: clean streets, safe streets, public toilets without human blood sprinkled all over the ceiling, parks without needles in the grass.

Speaking as someone who's slept in the parks on and around Capitol Hill, I have no quarrel with people who are just going through a rough time. In fact, I'd like to do more to help them. But spanging and pissing and shitting on the streets is not only unpleasant and disgusting -- it's unnecessary. Anyone who's doing it (who isn't actually suffering from a mental illness) is making very clear choices to engage in that behavior, and we can and should hold them responsible for it by arresting them, jailing them, forcing them to go without their drugs and booze and then requiring them to do community service.

Posted by Judah | August 16, 2007 1:09 PM
73

@68: there's no such thing as a good imported tomato. Those BC Hothouse and Dutch jobs are tasteless tennis balls. Just because they've got a bit of the vine still on doesn't mean they're worth more than the skanky orange ones.

Posted by Fnarf | August 16, 2007 1:09 PM
74

I blame Napster. Darn kids started illegally downloading music from their dorm rooms, record stores closed, chaos crept in.

Posted by The DA | August 16, 2007 1:12 PM
75

I don't really want to agree with this guy, but I do a little. I lived on Capitol Hill back in the early '90's and it was vibrant. I moved away and then came back a number of years later to visit and it did seem less vibrant...a little more rough around the edges, more shops closed, fewer people walking around, more trash, less color somehow. I don't know. It just seemed more rundown than I remembered it, but then again I could be remembering it wrong and maybe it was just the wrong time of day or too cloudy or something. I haven't been back in awhile and I still miss the Gravity Bar. As for that guy leaving, that doesn't really help the situation. If he really cared about Capitol Hill, maybe he would stay and do something to help revive the area. I know it is hard to take the lead, but if everyone leaves, it will be left to the junkies and prostitutes.

Posted by Kristin Bell | August 16, 2007 1:12 PM
76

lmao.

The natives...I love it cause it's true.

I agree with you almost completely crk.
I want to own a condo around pine/pike or down bellevue/summit/belmont one day.


I've found one way of getting around being panhandled is to wear headphones. which is a good solution if alone, but doesnt work if you're with people.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | August 16, 2007 1:13 PM
77

Fnarf, I'm taking about the canned ones in the canned veggie isle; the quality imported ones ($3.50 and up) are very good because of how they are preserved*. I never buy the "fresh" ones in the produce area; I've tasted fresh tomatoes from friends and the difference is amazing! ... there used to be some tomatoe dude at the farmers market across from SCCC years ago who really knew his stuff. Sadly, that market seemed to go from selling good inexpensive produce to a bunch of people hawking useless trinkets.

On topic: #72 - parasite is exactly the correct word. It is these parasites that people complain about and is the very reason my girlfriend (like the other guy in the post) always tries to get me to use parallel streets instead of broadway.

Sadly, I predict there would be all kinds of uproar (including protest from this very website) if the city were to remove these parasites.

PS: While I'm ranting, the greenpeace & WashPirg (or whatever they call themselves) guys can piss off too. Not even the street kids follow you down the street when you say no...

* See also, Alton Brown :-)

Posted by crk on bellevue ave | August 16, 2007 1:23 PM
78

cato @ 67 hits it. we arent a big city so all you small town washingtonian transplants, all you idaho townie escapees, stop thinking that this is what a big city is like.

I lived in the Bay Area, and when I went up to The City the homeless people were far more fucked up but less aggressive panhandlers. also many of the panhandlers were not these young piece of shit dog owners who refuse to get a job. that poor animal has to put up with a owner that has no sense of responsbility. the only thing that is possibly more annoying are the kids around westlake during the day time who wear pajama pants and halter tops. I am so close to offering them sterilization services on my paycheque.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | August 16, 2007 1:24 PM
79

also my girlfriend is a smoker and i am not. any time she lights up on broadway or near it, there is at least 2 or 3 homeless types that ask her for a smoke.

in fact, one day coming back from QFC with a bunch of groceries, we were waiting by the rite aid bus stop for the 43. In teh course of 45 seconds she was hit up for a smoke 6 times. 6 TIMES!

Posted by Bellevue Ave | August 16, 2007 1:28 PM
80

In my opinion, it isn't so much the homeless/street punk/drug issue on Broadway. That's always been a part of the scene. It's that Broadway as a business and retail district is such a shithole as compared to 10 - 15 years ago. It WAS a lot more vibrant in the late 80s and early 90s and was an exciting place to be and the retail/restaurant mix was the prime reason. Now, I don't go there. Not because I'm afraid of getting "spanged" or seeing junkies, but because there isn't a single business on that street that I want to patronize. Walking Ballard, Fremont or Belltown on a Saturday afternoon is fun, because there's more than Hot Topic, QFC or shitty used clothing stores to patronize.

Posted by chris | August 16, 2007 1:33 PM
81

You're right, #72, I've gotten seriously unsympathetic to the users who choose to sit on the street or shoot up in Tashkent Park, right across from my apartment building. This Chris guy is annoying, but he is also correct that Broadway has gone seriously downhill, even in the last five years I've been here, not to mention since the two other stints I've done on the hill from 91-94 and 98-99.

Posted by Lola | August 16, 2007 1:33 PM
82

I hate to follow up to myself... but I really think that if everybody made an effort *not* to use the parallel streets and always use Broadway, it would make a big difference. It's like an empty restaurant - nobody goes in because nobody else is in. Get a couple people in there, and suddenly everybody wants to eat there.

Course, convincing your significant other of this is a different story. I usually cave in on the way to someplace (Cal Anderson park via Dicks...) and go with a parallel routing. On the way back she usually forgets she "hates walking on Broadway" and we walk down it the whole route home with nary a single complaint.

She isn't some spoiled whiny bitch either. She has no problem taking even the most seedy bus in San Fransisco and she loves little "adventures" like two guys fighting in pay-lot behind the college or when a neighboring apartment gets raided by the swat team. She just doesn't like those damn parasitic street kids... and I don't blame her, they kinda harsh your mellow, ya know?

Posted by crk on bellevue ave | August 16, 2007 1:33 PM
83

Seriously.

Posted by Lola | August 16, 2007 1:35 PM
84

Haha, well the main reason my girlfriend hates walking down broadway is because of being asked for a smoke twice every block AND having lived there for 10 years just being fed up with how things have gone downhill.

She told me at lunch that basically part of it is she's older now, and part of it is that there really isnt anything appealing on broadway anymore to make up for the shifty characters.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | August 16, 2007 1:37 PM
85

OK, y'all. The moral of the story is that when most people work hard, get a real job and grow up, they can no longer stomach the antics on Broadway.

So how come Broadway didn't grow up with the rest of us? Transplant @40 hit it:

I think one of the root causes for the City's (Mayor, Council, Police) lack of intervention is the fact that Capitol Hill is primarily composed of renters, who are typically more transient than not. And renters don't pay property taxes and probably are less likely to vote. And the property owners are probably living on the Eastside, and thus don't vote for the Seattle city government positions. So it's much easier for our local "leaders" to just pretend the problems of Broadway don't exist and spend the tax dollars in the neighborhoods that influence election outcomes.

That's it. Now everyone shut up.

Posted by horatiosanzserif | August 16, 2007 1:39 PM
86

"the only thing that is possibly more annoying are the kids around westlake during the day time who wear pajama pants and halter tops. I am so close to offering them sterilization services on my paycheque."


Wow, good thread!


I think those kids are great, honestly. Rather than hanging out at mall all day, or playing video games at home, they all take a bus from god knows where and hang out. Do they get in your face? No. They just stick to them selves and have fun like any teenager that age does. Sure they probably cause a little trouble, but all teenagers do. It gets even better cause they are even in a very safe area; would your parents have let you hang out there 20 years ago?


Hell, I only wish I had a place like that park to hang out when I was a kid. We didn't have cool public spaces like that.

I know where you are coming from because at a surface glance you can easily mistake them for the street-kids on Broadway. Watch them for an hour and you'll be proud - the fact that regular teenage kids can hang out downtown instead of some damn mall is a sign of progress!

Posted by crk on bellevue ave | August 16, 2007 1:40 PM
87

naw, we arent going to shut up, we actually like complaining and patting ourselves on the back for good complaints.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | August 16, 2007 1:41 PM
88

heres the disturbing part though crk. it isnt just "teenagers" that are down there hanging out with them. In fact i've seen many a male pushing 30 that is hanging out with these slutted out teenage girls. thats the part that makes me want to get them birth control.

they arent street kids to be certain but they present a danger that is certainly just as awful: becoming street kids with kids.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | August 16, 2007 1:44 PM
89

One comment that bothers me it the person who said to effect they are building stuff on broadway now. Yes, they are building but in the process the city has turned it's back on the whole of Broadway except for a handfull of big projects that the Mayor can get some political buzz for. And the two QFC's on Broadway? One of them is not new, it moved into the Market and effectively shut down nearly a dozen businesses. AND left an empty building in the wake of it's relocation.

I am all for new development but it seems as if the city wants Broadway to completely deteriorate until the city can zone most of it for what amounts to high priced condos with a few spotty retail outlets.

Since I have lived in Seattle here is a partial list of businesses that have left Broadway (some good some okay)

*GAP
*Pink Zone
*Sam Goody
*That one place that sold overpriced jeans and gay attire that was Headlines for awhile (can not remember the name but there is one in San Francisco)
*Broadway Market Theater
*That French Bakery place in the Market
*B&O Espresso
*Seattle's Best Coffee (Now UPS?? WTF)
*Payless Shoes (yeah not that great but now it is a liquor store?)
*Basken Robbins (now another teriaky place since we have a shortage of those in Seattle)
*Ben and Jerry's
*Godfather's Pizza
*Mongolian Grill
*That bookstore in the Market (very cruisy oddly enough)
*Bulldog News

Just some memories for all of you who liked the old Broadway.

Posted by Cato the Younger Younger | August 16, 2007 1:46 PM
90

I'm pretty sure things will start looking up quickly with the arrival of the lightrail station. I'm just hoping my rent doesn't skyrocket, or that my house doesn't get knocked down to build more condos.

I think we need more CHAC type spaces. Bring the artist collectives back!

Posted by Katelyn | August 16, 2007 1:51 PM
91

I try to avoid Broadway as well, but there's no way it's that bad. Whatta wimp. Move to Salt Lake City, Chris. I'm sure you'll love it.

Whenever my friends from San Francisco visit, they always comment on the lack of homeless people, particularly sleeping on the street. San Franciscan homeless and panhandlers make Seattlite homeless look like pansies. You don't know aggressive panhandling until you've walked through a throng of SF homeless, several of whom try to trip you when you ignore them.

And those Native American guys in the Pine/Bellevue area have always been nice to me. Maybe they only fuck with other men.

Posted by keshmeshi | August 16, 2007 1:54 PM
92

i dont get the whole anti-condo argument. wouldn't more property-owners on broadway bring more people who give a damn about what happens on the street? it seems like 90% of commenters in this thread are just afraid of "rich people," ie, those who can buy condos. do you have a better idea for helping the street become cool again? or for attracting the "right" businesses back to the street?

Posted by The Holy Mountain | August 16, 2007 1:55 PM
93

Condos suck because I'm too poor to buy one, and my most interesting friends are also too poor.

Posted by Katelyn | August 16, 2007 1:56 PM
94
Condos suck because I'm too poor to buy one, and my most interesting friends are also too poor.

boo-hoo. get an education, hippie. society isn't exactly built on interestingness.

Posted by The Holy Mountain | August 16, 2007 1:59 PM
95

@81 If you see someone shooting up in Tashkent park, call a cop.

For fucks sake, if you don't want crime, you need to call attention to it. Cops do not just magically appear.

The U-District and Broadway swap their problems every couple of years, but only after it becomes UNCOMFORTABLE for people to fuck up. Wingeing about it is pointless.

IF YOU WANT CHANGE, YOU HAVE TO MAKE IT HAPPEN

Posted by Boylston | August 16, 2007 1:59 PM
96

Katelyn. get a job that pays more than 50k a year and save 10k a year. youll be able to afford a condo in no time.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | August 16, 2007 2:00 PM
97

Oh I'm just voicing my concerns over a neighborhood I dearly love. Sadly horatiosanzserif I wish it was just that easy.


I'll toss another log into the fire. We are too damn liberal up here on ye 'ol Capitol Hill. Clearly we should do everything in our power to cater to the street kids. We should probably build some kind of shelter beside the dicks parking lot and snake the people waiting in line by every one of them to make *sure* we know how much better off we are. After all, it is rude not to share right?


No, We need to acquire some vocal "business" assholes up here to balance things out. Go out and plaster some "Build New Seattle" stickers on top of the "Save Old Seattle" ones.


Seriously though, I'm all for public transit and I can say with all certainty that if it were to ever come on the ballot I'd vote to remove I-5 (I'm serious too). But for crying out loud - I've taken enough economics courses to know at least something about how our system works. You can only take the ambient "you should be guilty for everything" vibe up here so long.


You know what? Fuck those damn street kids with their dogs. The are scum and don't deserve my respect. Capitol Hill would be 100% nicer if they were all to jump off a cliff.


There. I said it. You know what? I feel good about it too.

Posted by crk on bellevue ave | August 16, 2007 2:03 PM
98

@94, FU!!! I have an education, but guess what? I do not make $100K a year (nor do a lot of people) which is what you need to make to afford a condo in Seattle.

And guess what? A lot of people who are single and are not making 6 figures like to live in Seattle and would like to have decent/nice places to rent that are in Seattle. So spare us your higher than thou attitude!!

Posted by Cato the YY | August 16, 2007 2:05 PM
99

I know where you're coming from on the guilt thing. Theres a few street kids with dogs that try to play that up to their own benefit but it isnt working on me.

I dont buy Seattle Liberalness at all. I came from the Land of Liberal, The Bay Area and what I see here is hardly that. It's fucking apologist guilt for not living up to what people think they are. It's like a goddamn hippie version of "Death of a Salesman" where people don't really know themselves here and view themselves as liberal but are far from it.

I've turned into a goddamn reactionary because of the phony liberal bullshit up here. I can barely call myself moderate now because of the pandering to people who offer nothing in return here.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | August 16, 2007 2:09 PM
100

hmm... I have lived in other cities, and I do think that there is something different about seattle's street people. I haven't fully formed an idea about what exactly it is or what the causes could be, but there is a level of aggression I notice that is different from other places I've been that has large populations of people who live on the street.

I suspect a lack of social services, particularly mental health services, is part of it. I also suspect the general attitude that the plight of homelessness is something to simply be tolerated has something to do with it.

Fremont and Ballard have visible populations of drug-addled and mentally ill street people. In Ballard, behavior seems more reserved. In Fremont and up to Greenlake, I have noticed it can be aggressive and threatening. On Broadway, it can be entertaining, generally less threatening, but also overwhelming in frequency.

Overall, it just looks like this city has no coherent response to this issue.

But we are talking about a city that has made no effort to close or remove the parts of the viaduct that are reported as at serious risk of falling down during a strong windstorm, so I seriously doubt that there's going to be actual progress until there is leadership that takes real steps to protect the health and safety of all seattle residents.

Posted by r | August 16, 2007 2:16 PM
101

"And the two QFC's on Broadway?"

Yes. Think about the radius each of them serve. The north QFC has to serve all the way up to 520 and down to Lake Union. The south one gets all of first hill, a large swath of the CD and I see many people walk across the freeway on Madison with QFC bags too. If there was just one QFC on broadway it would be madness I tell you. Madness.

"And those Native American guys in the Pine/Bellevue area have always been nice to me. Maybe they only fuck with other men."

You haven't seen them give the old "you are a stuck up white bitch" lecture to some poor student waiting for the 49 next to SCCC?

"left an empty building in the wake of it's relocation."

According to the "Save Old Seattle" sticker on the land-use sign, you and I should want that empty husk to sit there because anything new is "evil" and for the "rich". Think about that for a second. Could you imagine the shit you'd have to put up with trying to develop *anything* up here? I honestly feel very sorry for most developers in this area.

PS: The apartment I'm sitting in right now was at some point "new" in the 1930's. In fact, it was first rented to very, very wealthy families. The basement was designed as a living area for the servants. When I lived over on Belmont & Howell (emerald arms apartments rocks), that place was a hotel for the rich when it was built. I'd imagine most of the 1930's brick buildings around here have a similar past.

Posted by crk on bellevue ave | August 16, 2007 2:16 PM
102

Katelyn

Or get a job that pays $30k a year and get a 3% FHA loan, eat rice and beans until inflation and your own ambition brings your income up to the point where you make more money while your house payments remain static. In a couple of years you'll be able to move up to pasta and fresh fruit, then five or six years out you'll be able to afford salmon and nice vacations. It's not fun, but pretty much every one of those condo owners had to do it at some point -- to pay for school, if not to pay for their condos.

Posted by Judah | August 16, 2007 2:16 PM
103

Sounds like this fellow needs some education regarding those oh, so obscure economic concepts, inflation and supply and demand. Then he would understand why his apartment is more expensive now than 17 fucking years ago.

Posted by Gitai | August 16, 2007 2:17 PM
104

Mattro2.0 @ 60, your friend is a worthless shit. I don't like homeless sparechangers either but you can always say you don't have any money to spare - and if you live on Cap Hill that's probably the truth. There's no excuse for being cruel.

Fnarf @ 73 and crk @ 77, the only good tomatoes are vine ripened, and the ones at the store are not that, even if they have a bit of vine on it. Vine ripened means waiting til they're ripe on the vine because while they will still turn orange and soft after you pick them green they won't get sweet. All store tomatoes were picked green because they won't make it to market if they're picked ripe. So everyone who likes tomatoes, grow your own.

Posted by Matt from Denver | August 16, 2007 2:21 PM
105

@98:

at some point, you'll learn that majoring in comp lit is for fools. it's not like the people running around seattle who CAN afford to live here are much smarter than you, likely. they just made better choices.

and about "wanting" live cheaply in seattle, well, i want to live in a seaside estate in havana, cuba. but we can't all have our dreams.

dont blame me about seattle being too expensive for you, your inability to attract a domestic partner and your job silkscreening custom t-shirts. blame the other folks living here who actually did something smart with their lives.

SHAZZZZZZZZZZZZZAM!

Posted by The Holy Mountain | August 16, 2007 2:28 PM
106

Woah woah woah. Who said I'm not educated? And! no joke, I ate rice and beans for lunch today, dinner last night, and lunch AND dinner the day before yesterday.

I could get a desk job if I wanted to, buy an impersonal condo in a few years, be just like the rest of the grown-up world... But why, when I have a great job I'm good at that just doesn't happen to pay anything remotely close to $30k?

I choose to live in the city because I can walk everywhere I need to go, there are interesting restaurants and art venues, and my neighbors are crazy and eccentric. I love the conspiracy theorists at the coffee shops, the bookstore owners who try to pawn off their kittens on me, and the gorgeous old house I share with three others. City life shouldn't just be for white-collars!!

Posted by Katelyn | August 16, 2007 2:28 PM
107
I do not make $100K a year (nor do a lot of people) which is what you need to make to afford a condo in Seattle.

Yeah... that's bullshit. It doesn't cost $100k a year to buy a condo in Seattle. If a condo goes for $250k you can get an FHA loan for 3% down. Assuming you have to finance your fees, that leaves you with about $244k in principal, which works out to about $1,500 a month for your mortgage. Assume homeowner's dues of $300 a month, you're looking at about $21,600 per year in housing costs.

That's a lot of money, but it's hardly insurmountable and it certainly doesn't require $100k a year income to cover it. Most basic secretarial and reception work pays about $31k per year right now. Interest on your mortgage is a tax write-off. So basically you can cover those payments on a receptionist's wage. It's not pretty, but it's not impossible -- and it's a hell of a lot better than some people do. I spent 10 years working my way through college. I graduated in 2000 and 2001 was the first year in my life where my total earnings for the year were higher than $11k. Most years they were under $10k. The year I turned 22 they were under $6k. So it's not fun, but it's certainly possible.

If you're too fucking lazy to do it, just cop to that. But don't go pulling imaginary numbers out of your ass to try and justify your bullshit.

Posted by Judah | August 16, 2007 2:31 PM
108

Gitai,


You can't just dismiss it that easily. Socioeconomically diverse neighborhoods are something to be desired (at least I think). The trick is how to do you accomplish that goal without doing stupid ill-formed ideas like "rent control" or "lotteries on condos".


I've read an opinion that what we see now is developers filling in the demand for an untapped market of hi-end condos. There is only so many of those you can build. Only so many people buy the residential version of a lexus.


Eventually developers will move on to build the Honda civic of the residential world; in other words, the nice fat beefy middle part of the residential bell curve.


By the way... people say "but what about the schools" and "only young people are moving into these new places". I've thought about it and I think it is because us youngin's dont have the cultural idea that we need a giant house and a big yard. Older people just don't find urban living attractive because they weren't growing up around it.


Soon enough those youngin's in belltown are gonna get hitched and pop out some kids. Since they don't want to move, they will start demanding playgrounds and schools. Think I'm full of it? I see people my age (28) going into top pot with their kids every Sunday. Since I dont see many huge houses with giant yards around here, I assume they either rent or live in a nearby condo.


The change you see in Seattle isn't instantaneous. It's a generational/cultural shift that will take decades to fully pan out. Patience my friends... patience. The best is comming soon.

Posted by crk on bellevue ave | August 16, 2007 2:33 PM
109

So none of you are over 35, it would seem? This is a normal cycle for all neighborhoods. During the early '70's, Broadway was a total shithole. Then 'the gays' moved there because rents/property were cheap and by the mid '80's it was a happening place. Then they moved to other neighborhoods (Central District comes to mind) because Broadway was gentrified and no longer affordable. The cycle is trending down now, and will do so until Broadway's a slum again, whereupon there will be bargains to be had. This has happened in ALL neighborhoods at one time or another. No one would believe me if I said that in the late '50's/early '60's you could barely GIVE AWAY the mansions up by Volunteer park- who wanted to live in Seattle in an old barn, when there was Renton, Bellevue and Kirkland to live in? Give it 25 years- it'll all be back. Not before further decline, tho.

Posted by BeenHere50+years | August 16, 2007 2:35 PM
110

Gotta agree with the letter writer on ever point. When the second floor bathroom at Broadway Market has become a blatant drug drop, but nobody does anything about it you know things are going right in the dumper. While everyone wants to be PC and compassionate about these whatever they are creatures enough is simply enough. It's not trickle down from the Reagan era, it's not the Bush administration, etc... It's a bunch of lazy, disgusting, dirty, gross, lice infested, drug addicts that want a hand out so they can score their next fix. These are people who quite frankly don't even deserve a public outreach program that we in King County who already have paid way too much for our homes in Seattle would foot the bill for.... Round these disease ridden walking corpses up, put them on a Greyhound back to their point of origin and clean up our streets. Better yet, drop them off at Ron Sims house and let him deal with the problem firsthand.

Posted by Sweetie | August 16, 2007 2:42 PM
111

I rest my case. You heard it on Slog, if you rent you are a basiclly a piece of shit. (Judah, you need to offer a finance class for those loans as the houselending market implodes. And The Holy Mountain, well we all know your political pursuasion, (somewhere right of Himmler)) So I guess the next step it to make property ownership a requirement for voting too.

But hey, I have learned this week that for Slog, we are all for cameras all over Seattle since their is no right to any sort of privacy in public (random searches perhaps too?). And either buy a Condo in Seattle, go into debt or move out. And, all the things wrong in Seattle are just big city living even though Seattle is far from being a big city.

Dan Savage, Slog is a right wing spin machine!

Posted by Cato the YY | August 16, 2007 2:43 PM
112

BeenHere50+years:

Yeah, but that doesn't just happen on its own. People have to do things to make it happen.

Posted by Judah | August 16, 2007 2:43 PM
113

Wow, I got to the 50th comment and had to stop reading. There's a lot of people who are reacting to a legitimate concern over an area's change with defensive, angry bile. Comment 49 is about an unproductive (and ignorant) a comment as you'll see.

The problem is real, and maybe there are understandably legitimate reasons for it that's beyond anyone's control, but don't take potshots at people because they admit they've seen it. And we wonder why people here are so passive and never speak their minds.

Posted by Gomez | August 16, 2007 2:45 PM
114

#95, FYI, I call the cops EVERY TIME I SEE PEOPLE SHOOTING UP IN TASHKENT, and have done so for the past five years, the entire time I have lived there .

So shut the fuck up already.

Posted by Lola | August 16, 2007 2:48 PM
115
Judah, you need to offer a finance class for those loans as the houselending market implodes.

FHA mortgages are insured and fixed rate, dilhole. That means the payments don't increase over time and if the owner has some kind of meltdown and can't repay the principal then the lender's investment is guaranteed by the mortgage insurance. So, basically, the houselending market hasn't got a fucking thing to do with it and if you bothered to know what you were talking about that'd be obvious.

Posted by Judah | August 16, 2007 2:50 PM
116

I live on Capitol Hill and I rent a giant (probably 700sqft) one bedroom with the lady for $1100. A walk up and down any street east of Broadway has tons of apartments for rent for much lower than that. When I lived alone, I had a wonderful old-school 500sqft apartment with the original (unpainted, yaay!!) mohagany trim, walls with something other than high-gloss white and a spectacular view for $725. Sans view, that building had studios for as low as $650 with the same square footage. That is pretty affordable if you ask me.

What is this I hear about not being able to rent up here?

Here is the tip, you gotta be okay with 450sqft. For me, the higher the square footage, the more crap I manage to fill it with. I'm lazy so (Lots of Crap) = (Lots of Cleaning). Cleaning = Bad and Crap = Expensive.

Posted by crk on bellevue ave | August 16, 2007 2:52 PM
117

@107 Buying a condo w/only 3% down is very irresponsible. Also, A condo for $250K? Where, Burien?

Posted by Sweetie | August 16, 2007 2:53 PM
118

@115: "Dilhole"? Awesome.

Posted by CG | August 16, 2007 2:54 PM
119

For a bunch of self-styled urban progressives, most of these posts sound like they came from straight from the keyboards of the right-wing yuppie pricks who post at Sound Politics.

If this is the "new" Seattle - I've found over 100 new reasons here to prefer the old one.

Posted by Mr. X | August 16, 2007 2:54 PM
120
@107 Buying a condo w/only 3% down is very irresponsible. Also, A condo for $250K? Where, Burien?

Why is buying a condo with only 3% down irresponsible exactly? That's what the FHA allows. And a 600sqft condo on Harrison, three blocks from Broadway, with an off-street parking spot, just sold for $250k last month.

Posted by Judah | August 16, 2007 2:56 PM
122

i love the graffiti. and #68 was right, it's CAPITOL!!!!

Posted by matt | August 16, 2007 3:00 PM
123

"...right-wing yuppie pricks who post at Sound Politics."

I'd hardly say what I've read here is anything right-wing. Closer to the right than your average "free mumia" protester in a Sea Turtle costume, yes. But right-wing? Nope.

I'd say calling those streek-punks a bunch of scum is hardly right wing. It's just not passive aggressive. Come on, you know you think they are scum too. Just admit it and maybe Seattle will become a better place.

If you want to see "rich yuppie pricks" try parking in Downtown Bellevue on a friday night. Those fuckers actually honk in parking garages at eachother!! And it wasn't even an isolated instance - we were in two garages and heard at least ten long "serious" car honks. Who honks in a parking garage?

Posted by crk on bellevue ave | August 16, 2007 3:04 PM
124

@117, Burien if you are lucky and $200K for 600 square feet? I am with you on that. Find me a lender who will loan to someone makeing $30k a year which is less than $14.00 an hour - BEFORE taxes.

Clearly there are people on here who have not sat down to look at the actual cost of homeownership in it's full scope. (It is not just the mortgage and condo fees, you have taxes and ALL the maintence expenses). I think they work for subprime lenders who are trying to shore up there numbers somehow.

But this has totally taken us off track.

Posted by Cato the YY | August 16, 2007 3:26 PM
125
Clearly there are people on here who have not sat down to look at the actual cost of homeownership in it's full scope. (It is not just the mortgage and condo fees, you have taxes and ALL the maintence expenses).

Taxes on a condo amount to less than $2k, spread out over the entire year. They barely figure in. And most maintenance is covered by homeowner's dues.

But whatever.

Posted by Judah | August 16, 2007 3:35 PM
126

Have you also noticed the annoying fake parking attendants that hang out under the viaduct trying to get money for pointing out spots. Couple that with rising numbers of annoying street vendors and our decent to a third world nation is nearly complete.

Posted by Giffy | August 16, 2007 3:52 PM
127

"Have you also noticed the annoying fake parking attendants that hang out under the viaduct trying to get money for pointing out spots."

Those guys exist in any city. All it takes is one car-tow/ticket later you'll never fall for that scam again. I know that from experience!

Posted by crk on bellevue ave | August 16, 2007 4:00 PM
128

I'd rather rent, too much hassle the other way, to me it seems easier to pull up stakes and move if it gets that bad...and here's the thing it's not really that bad....ohhh junkies, taggers, panhandlers, smell of feces and urine for shame, for shame.

I guess I just have a thick skin or something but it's not like broadway is "teeming calcutta" , detroit, baghdad, south-central, the west bank, or even renton or white-center, I mean c'mon I walk Broadway pretty much every day, and when asked for change(or whatever) it gets tiring, but it's really not a big deal, I usually don't have any cash anyhow, and if I do it's usually spoken for as far as smokes or beer or stamps or bus fare I need myself... and if I have a spare $ here or there I might give it to someone...depending on my mood...either way it's all cool as I am just on my way to work or whatever...

Posted by hipsterlite | August 16, 2007 4:03 PM
129

Ok, three things:

1. Since Cornish moved, I've noticed a HUGE change in the "vibe" of northern capitol hill. I mean, it was starting to go down hill homeless, panhandling, etc wise but it still had a youthful energy about it.

2. as far as I'm concerned the BEST place to live on capitol hill is the harvard/aloha area. Dont shrug and say it's all mansions because there are plenty of rad apartments in that area. It's super convenient too, because no crazies go down there, and you can walk harvard to get to QFC, Joe Bar (which is officially the nicest place to get a beer and sit outside in Seattle)the deluxe is there incase you need fried meat and the only reason to go to b'way is to get to Siam. The buses are right there too.
It's by far the best deal in town.

3. I just moved to Albuquerque to do films (which is working out beautifully, thanks) and it's almost RETARDED how nice people are here. There's a lovely little homeless shelter, I've never once been asked for a smoke or money- not fucking once. Sure it's jam packed full of cholos that want me to have their babies but they're NICE about it. It's quite a shock coming from 10 years on capitol hill. You can stumble home drunk here no prob- the cops are active in fucking with the RIGHT people (like people actually making meth, not the wrong people like hippy kids smoking pot). It's pretty amazing, and it opened my eyes to realizing Seattle- while fun as fuck and with lots to do- is not a very user friendly city. As a whole.

Posted by catnextdoor in abq | August 16, 2007 4:12 PM
130

There aren't that many vacant stores on Broadway...mainly on the north end where all the building is going on...

I seldom get panhandled...i guess that means I either look intimidating or too poor...

I wonder if all the people bitching about Cap Hill actually live here...if you do, then leave...if you don't live here, then don't come visit...it's that simple.

Oh, and I don't see moving to Fremont or Wallingford as a better alternative...they're both kind of boring and over-priced...and traffic is shit-tastic...

I'd take a few homeless people over the hordes of condo-dwelling yuppies with pugs and kids moving onto the Hill...

Posted by michael strangeways | August 16, 2007 4:32 PM
131

Wow, I get really tired of this bullshit mentality that if you don't buy a home, you're some loser/sack of shit/drain on society freak...It's almost as bad as the 'whadya mean youre not going to have kids?' lecture from horrified parents. To tell you the truth, if I HAD the money to buy a home right now, I'm not sure I would...condos are just ridiculous overpriced apartments and houses are freakishly expensive and never-ending money pits...some folks LIKE the freedom of renting...Without interesting artistic intellectual renters Capitol Hill would be as stimulating and exciting as...Kirkland.

Posted by michael strangeways | August 16, 2007 4:43 PM
132

Anyone else get a major negative vibe on this thread? I am curious where it comes from. I don't mean to be all touchy feely but where is all this anger coming from? What is it about neighborhoods, rent and homeless kids that boils people's blood?

Posted by Jude Fawley | August 16, 2007 4:53 PM
133

Jude, it's just how Seattle operates apparently.

I suppose we are lucky that the problems we have arent triple digit murder rates, but are triple digit homeless kids with dogs panhandling.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | August 16, 2007 5:32 PM
134

I have lived just-off central Broadway for 25 years, so I think I have a pretty good perspective on the changes in this neighborhood. No one can deny that Chris Canary's observations are very accurate and reflect serious ongoing problems. I have had the same frustrations he has had. The "street people" (polite term for bums) are allowed to panhandle because they are smart and do so on public spaces...private security, such as Washington Mutual Bank, do not have the legal right to do anything if they are not on private property. The bums who sleep in store entryways know to vacate before the business opens. And, unless panhandlers are actually sitting/lying on the sidewalk or parking strip,or are "aggressively panhandling," the police are powerless to do anything, even if they do respond to a 911 complaint, which usually is several hours later, at best. But I do have a suggestion for all of us who want the bums to go elsewhere: DON'T GIVE THEM MONEY!!!

I also think that the "culture of cool" on Capitol Hill is a big part of the problem. Many younger people think it is "cool" if where they live is kind of sleazy, dirty, and populated with alot of bums and druggies, even if they are not into these things themselves. Just refer to some of the previous comments. My question is: what exactly is wrong with a neighborhood that is reasonably clean, free of derelicts, safe at all hours, but still diverse and vibrant? Capitol Hill could be this way, if residents became a little less tolerant of sleaze.

Finally, I am optimistic. I see many changes in my neighborhood, and more to come. Cal Anderson Park is a wonderful urban space...just remember what it was like prior to its transformation! The implementation of the Alcohol Impact Area (AIA) last fall has made a big difference in the number of street alcoholics around....I haven't had anyone sleeping in my yard, or using it for a bathroom, in months! The upcoming re-development of the old Safeway site (in progress), the old QFC site, the Bank of America block, and the Sound Transit station will together dramatically change our neighborhood for the better!! There will be many more people living here soon who care about the health and decency of where they live, and will make the necessary changes for this to happen. The Capitol Hill Chamber of Commerce is actively seeking solutions to a number of problems, so get involved instead of just bitching! And make way, elements of sleaze, because your time has passed. Take heart, Chris Canary!...because the "times they are a-changin."

Bob Calhoun

Posted by Calhoun | August 16, 2007 5:40 PM
135

Yeah. . . in the two years that I lived on the Hill, my enjoyment of Broadway went way down while rent went up over 30%.

So, I just moved to Fremont. I actually have much better bus service from my exact location to various parts of the city, access to an equally cool park (Gasworks), within walking distance of PCC and tons of other stuff. . .

I appreciate the uberurban character of the Hill, and I'm still there most days for school. But, I'm sad to say that this is currently a better place to live.

And yeah, that's partly because I can walk down the street without people who haven't showered recently trying to extract what little money I have. However, the "kill a hobo" mentality expressed by some folks here is pretty incredibly horrible. Where the hell are they supposed to go? They need healthcare and drug treatment and affordable housing. Most of us aren't as far from their lot in life as we'd like to believe. Perhaps we should seek an actual solution for these folks, eh?

Posted by violet_dagrinder | August 16, 2007 5:49 PM
136

violet: most of these people don't know "hobo" from anything resembling any reality;
to them a hobo is always a ne'er do well; due no respect, pathetic, waste of life etc...
not people, with inherent worth...as opposed to themselves who are worthy by the capital they amass and the people they fuck over in the process...

Posted by hipsterlite | August 16, 2007 7:32 PM
137

@ 136, fight the fucken power dude!

Posted by hipsterlite fanclub | August 16, 2007 7:38 PM
138

As long as you tolerate all the human garbage on the hill it will stay and more will show up. Affordable housing? A building inhabited by all this scum would be uninhabitable very shortly and I'm sure no one has ever tried to get this scum sober before. It's all about behavior and until you pc pussies deal with that you deserve to step in their filth.

Posted by ektachrome | August 16, 2007 7:44 PM
139

yeah homes!!! fight the powers that be..


Elvis was a hero to most
But he never meant shit to me you see
Straight up racist that sucker was
Simple and plain

Mother fuck him and John Wayne
Cause I'm Black and I'm proud
I'm ready and hyped plus I'm amped
Most of my heroes don't appear on no stamps
Sample a look back you look and find
Nothing but rednecks for 400 years if you check
Don't worry be happy
Was a number one jam
Damn if I say it you can slap me right here
(Get it) lets get this party started right
Right on, c'mon
What we got to say
Power to the people no delay
To make everybody see
In order to fight the powers that be

--hipsterlite

Posted by hipsterlite | August 16, 2007 7:48 PM
140

Judah, your $21,600 in annual housing costs would be %66 of gross income for someone making $31,000 a year. Reputable financial advisors recommend limiting your housing costs to %28 of income, which means you have to make $75,000 a year to responsibly purchase a 600sqft condo, three block off Broadway. If you don't think that's fucked up, then what the hell is!?

Posted by Doug | August 16, 2007 11:57 PM
141

What annoys me about the Broadway panhandlers is their lack of creativity. Today I was so annoyed, I yelled at this one pierced-20-something for simply holding his hand out; how LAZY! Be creative and paint fucked up pictures like this one guy I always see, who is so obviously mentally ill. Find a piece of cardboard and write something until you find a phrase that works! 80% of homeless people are supposed to be mentally ill, but on Broadway, 80% of them are lazy ass-clowns who would rather pierce their lip and dread their hair than get a job. Stop stealing the attention from the homeless who actually deserve some help and pity. And by the way (because the ones I'm talking about probably DO have access to a computer) stop begging outside Taco Bell, hello! I'm there because I just scrounged my last dollar from my couch cushions.

Posted by tacobelllover | August 17, 2007 1:09 AM
142

I love the broadway patrons 'cause they are soooo creative. Today I was so happy 'cause this thirty something yuppie with no peircings/tats totally ignored me. He thought I was lazy or some shit and wanted me to paint a picture or some shit for him... like I'm his monkey or something. I'd find a peice of cardboard or something if I wasn't such a lazy ass.. but anyways I gotta go peirce my lip, or perhaps get a new tat just to annoy guys like this 'cause thats what I do. And, and I really want to steal attention from other people that might really need help, cause I am a lowlife like that and only beg outside taco-bell for fun and to piss off yuppies who scrounged their change from their "sofa" cushions....yeah these are the people that walk by and hurt me....
ouchy ouch...

Posted by tacobellhater | August 17, 2007 2:36 AM
143

I lived in the Casa Del Sol in 1986. The street was a lot rougher then -- fights all the time, a lot of sketchy drug stuff going on. A lot of cars being broken into on the street. I came home one afternoon to find that somebody had laid a turd in the lobby of my building.
I've lived just off Broadway since 1999, and don't want to live anywhere else. The neighborhood is not the same -- as much as people want it to be a docile backdrop for their urban lifestyles, it's not that way. And until our society puts on some long pants and goes after its social problems, maybe timid people should stay in their homes.

Posted by --MC | August 17, 2007 10:32 AM
144

Apparently tacobellhater has never heard of the phrase tongue-in-cheek: a term that refers to a style of humor in which things are said only half seriously, or in a subtly mocking way. Have you ever read The Stranger?

Posted by tacobelllover | August 17, 2007 1:01 PM
145

Capitol Hill unsavory and dangerous? Hahaha, that's the most hilarious thing I've heard all month, no, all year. Parents afraid of it? Where are these parents from, St. George, Utah? Jesus Christ, I guess all those years living around crack and meth heads in North and central Las Vegas has desensitized me or something, because Capitol Hill is like easy, albeit ridiculously overpriced living- that neighborhood has almost no edge at all. I also scoff at the idea that it's the most urban neighborhood in Seattle. The Central District and Belltown/Queen Anne are far more urban.

What I find really surprising is the idea that urban cores should be somehow without crime or corruption. In what universe? Urban cores used to be about political machines, immigrants, and bosses. Even when they were about shopping, education, and corporate business, the best downtown areas always had ample crime. I guess the gentrification transformation is complete.

Posted by Jay | August 17, 2007 6:48 PM

Comments Closed

In order to combat spam, we are no longer accepting comments on this post (or any post more than 14 days old).