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But Islam is a religon of love! LOL!!! Excuse my while I puke at the thought. And for all you stick up the a** liberals who are going to get all pissed off I have a question for you: Where is the fucking OUTRAGE from the supposed moderate Muslims who are tolerant AND accepting of homosexuality?

Religon is just sick sick sick!!! All of it

Posted by Cato the Younger Younger | August 10, 2007 9:53 AM

it is probably fair to say that there are other religions that are more compatable with modernity, & that islam is overdue for its Elightenment.

in other words, its fucking medieval & i'm sick of their shit.

Posted by maxsolomon | August 10, 2007 9:55 AM

I thought stoning was the body of Islamic law, not 'Sharia'.

Posted by Mr. Poe | August 10, 2007 9:56 AM

@1: the moderates are scared as fuck to speak up - just like christians in america, except they'd get killed like a dog in the street instead of shamed & exiled from their church.

that "islam is a religion of love" canard cracks me up - i think "please cite one example, apologist-for-islam". allah is less fun than yahweh.

Posted by maxsolomon | August 10, 2007 10:01 AM

It is even scarier to read the comments on the bbc and see how many people support this.

Posted by ky | August 10, 2007 10:01 AM

Jehovah Jehovah Jehovah!!!

Posted by Mahtli69 | August 10, 2007 10:01 AM

Death by stoning, eh? Might not be so bad.... A big iced-down bong, a huge pile of really good skunk, groovy toons playing in the background. Not a bad way to go.

Oh, wait, you can't die from overdosing on weed. You must mean....

Posted by Providence | August 10, 2007 10:03 AM

Islam, like any ideology, should stand on it's own merits. And just like Christianity, the idea that some invisible sky monster decrees that people should torture and kill other humans (or in more secular countries, deny them freedoms) is just completely without merit. And this superstitious nature of huge numbers of people is something that humanity will need to overcome in order to thrive as a species. So being Islamophobic is different than having ill will towards Muslim people. Islamophobic does not mean Muslimphobic. We are able to seperate these concepts when it comes to political affiliation (you can be friends with Republicans, even though you abhor their political philosophy, right?) but with religion, people's supernatural fears make them very prickly over calling out their unfounded, ridiculous beliefs.

Posted by Tiffany | August 10, 2007 10:09 AM

I have to say I object to the term "Islamophobic". A phobia is an irrational fear, and there's nothing irrational about being scared of crazy people with Korans who want to kill you. I'm not Islamophobic, I'm just scared shitless by Islamists (and Christianists, for that matter).

Posted by Providence | August 10, 2007 10:12 AM

Islam, like all other religions, is a man made tool created to control large groups of people. They all have their good points and they all have their bad points and there's not a single one that's right for everyone. Sadly, every single one of them think that only their religion is the perfect one and every single once has it's own fringe groups willing to die and/or kill for it.

Let the bloodshed commence.

Posted by monkey | August 10, 2007 10:14 AM

Not to blame the victims, but if you knew you could risk being stoned to death for holding your gay wedding in a particular place, why on earth would you make a point of traveling there to do it?

Posted by Matt | August 10, 2007 10:15 AM

Just to note, most of the anti-homosexuality teachings in Islam come from the same scripture as the old testament, like Christianity and Islam. The Hadith itself does equate homosexuality with adultery and I think, if I remember correctly, say kill them at one point (and, it does say kill adulterers as well).

Liberal Muslims doubt that all of the Hadith is genuinely the words of Muhammad and the homosexuality ones high on the point of discussion; there's quite a strong academic argument that they couldn't be.

The thing is, people are products of where they came from, and if someone is brought up in an environment where there is a very strict, bigoted application of Islam, and that is *all* that is all around them, they're going to believe it. Like most Christian fundamentalists have fundy parents. And those that don't just want to get the fuck out and away from those belief systems tend to run before they decide to help.

What I'm saying is, like most religions, it's all about the application. Muslims in the US or UK are less likely to support these kinds of practices than those in countries with Islamic fundamentalist ruler ship. There are other countries with an Islamic majority where this isn't common practice.

Posted by Rebecca | August 10, 2007 10:23 AM

Not all Islamic-majority countries behead and stone homosexuals, Rebecca. But all countries that behead and stone homosexuals are Islamic.

Sharia is bad, mmkay?

Posted by Dan Savage | August 10, 2007 10:41 AM

I wish the religious crazies would have a war among themselves with no survivors, leaving the rest of the world in peace.

Posted by Justy | August 10, 2007 10:45 AM

@13 - Well, Dan, there are plenty of non-Muslim nations where being gay is a bad idea, e.g. Jamaica.

In general, though, I do think it's regrettable that some liberals are often uneasy about criticizing Islamic nations, largely because they don't want to align themselves with knuckle-dragging right-wingers. (Yes, many of them _are_ uneasy about it. Admit it.)

Posted by tsm | August 10, 2007 10:48 AM

Check out the comments!

Davies Udokwu in Lagos, Nigeria wrote:
Sharia is the Law in Northern Nigeria so the penalty for homosexuality, which is death, should be meted out on them without fear or favour. Sodomy is an act of insanity which even animals cannot do. The West should stop making an issue out of this and try to change their system to support good morals.

Kenny, a Nigerian in Malaysia said:
It is a taboo and it should remain a taboo. They should be killed by hanging. A country can have its own law. I am a christian and i support the sharia law in doing it.

Posted by Mr. Poe | August 10, 2007 10:53 AM

I'm not Islamophobic, but I sure as hell am Nigeriaphobic.

Posted by Fnarf | August 10, 2007 10:56 AM

The voices advocating non-judgmental tolerance will continue to be silenced for the forseeable future. The Tolerance Of Exceptance is a trademark of the political left wing. Tolerance is in short supply in 2007 America and by extention, the American Media.

Americans mostly support status quo relgion or status quo secularism. The status quo of the day being fairly rabid conservate views all around with the exception being for a few bellweather social issues.

Churched folks generally do not welcome views which run counter left to what their Pope, Immam or Pastor preaches.

Secularists (those without "Faith in a Higher Power") are distrustful of folks who could be so outspoken towards their Pope, Immam or Pastor, yet still maintain a religious Faith.

Until most Americans can tolerate by excepting the Christmas Tree in City Hall, Pro-Legal Abortion Catholics, Gay Episcopal Bishops, the Compassionate No-Strings Social Welfare Fundamentalist, etc, etc, etc, there won't be much consideration given to the Middle East's left-leaning, rock the status-quo voices.

Posted by Phenics | August 10, 2007 11:02 AM

Okay, only Islamic countries legally behead and stone homosexuals to death. Non-Islamic countries have no problem sentencing homosexuals to life in prison or torture, though. Examples: Jamaica (Christian), India (Hindu), Singapore (Buddhist/Taoist), etc.

I don't think anyone would call someone Islamophobic for hating sharia law. Islamophobes are the ones who ignore or encourage harassment and hate crimes against Muslims, support discrimination laws against Muslims, and perpetuate an irrational fear of Muslims. You know, people like Bruce Bawer.

Posted by jamier | August 10, 2007 11:03 AM

Providence @#9 got there before me and I agree totally. but, ..

Holy war : fighting about whose invisible friend is the hardest..

And thanks Mr Poe, @16, Can we assume that David in Laos is probably not a biologist :-)

Never expected to see Nigeria and good morals in the same paragraph, perhaps he meant Morels ?? Tasty !

Posted by Boz | August 10, 2007 11:05 AM

You should probably be a bit more afraid of the culture that gives rise to a desire to stone gay men, rather than the religion they use to justify it. Africa, South Africa aside, is notoriously gay un-friendly, and that's ranged from Muslims to Animists to secular Communists.

In South Africa, the same forces that have led to greater acceptance in the West are at work, namely, grass roots activism, and actually getting to know gay people. The man who was helping Nelson Mandela evade capture when he was caught was gay, and local and foreign gay activists both exerted pressure on ANU leaders, and lo and behold, South Africa has greater legal protections for gays and lesbians than any country in the world.

And finally, the Qura'n makes no mention of stoning. It's a later interpolation into Islam, and in a bit of ridiculous, some Islamic scholars argue that a goat ate the original transcription that contained a verse regarding stoning.

Posted by Gitai | August 10, 2007 11:23 AM

@13 True enough, but again, secular nations like the USSR and China were not very kind to gay men, either.

Posted by Gitai | August 10, 2007 11:25 AM

13, Dan, my point is it's a problem of the country, and not one that is intrinsic to following Islam.

By all means, hate Sharia and hate the governing cultural climate of the countries that advocate this, but Islamophobia is a blanket term referring to all Muslims. It's like saying, "I hate all Christians," when the problem is actually just the fundamentalist lunatics. Stereotyping and generalizations only further the isolation of the Islamic community of the western world, and that isn't a good image to present to terrorist groups that are already convinced we have a blanket hatred for their beliefs.

Posted by Rebecca | August 10, 2007 11:37 AM

I'm just religiphobic. I think they are all a load of crap.

Posted by monkey | August 10, 2007 12:38 PM

Ehh, all right. Give me two rocks with points, two flats, and a packet of gravel.

Posted by Mandy Cohen | August 10, 2007 1:03 PM


Are there any *women* here ?????

sorry !

Posted by Boz | August 10, 2007 1:17 PM

I'm with #15 in being dismayed with the liberal fear of criticizing fundamentalist Muslims. By trying to ignore the problem, they're handing the entire discussion to the knuckle-dragging crazies. I also never want to see another liberal comparing honor killings in the Middle East to violence against women in the West. There is no comparison.

Posted by keshmeshi | August 10, 2007 1:29 PM

Actually this is islamophobia. Many of the people on here seem to very very scared of Islam, and irrationally at that. I mean, are you really that afraid? Seriously? I mean you're actually scared of a civilization that's been in place more or less like this for duration of the post-Ottoman 20th century- the only thing that's changed in heavier immigration in Europe and a few radicals committing some specularly visible crimes- never mind that the real age of terrorism was the 1970s, a time that many of you obviously don't remember very well.

It's amazing what a bunch of immobilized cowards this country has become. It's not about a pushover leftist, it's about understanding the difference between irrational fear of the other and legitimate concerns. All your crying and whining is distraction.

Posted by Jay | August 11, 2007 12:19 PM


All of OUR crying and whining? Reread your post, buddy. People in glass houses and all that...

Posted by NJ Matt | August 11, 2007 5:10 PM

I'm not crying OR whining, mainly because I'm not afraid like Savage is. I'm just telling you what I think.

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