Slog - Comments on Haggard Has "Overseers" http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers Okay, I'll admit it: I'm officially obsessed--obsessed all over again--with Ted Haggard. Like everyone else, I thought I'd overcome my addiction to the toothy 100% heterosexual cocksucker after he slunk off to Phoenix with the missus. My gratitude to Mike Jones for exposing Haggard--it was absolutely the right thing to do (buy Jones' book)--would be eternal but not, I assumed, my obsession with Rev. Ted. I had moved on. To Bob Allen, to David Vitter, to Glenn Murphy Jr., to Tommy Tester... and then Ted asks his supporters to put him through school--an online university--by sending checks to him... Copyright 2008 Tue, 28 Aug 2007 11:24:18 -0800 Wed, 29 Aug 2007 20:25:31 -0800 http://www.movabletype.org/?v=3.34 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Comment by Katelyn Mmmm, haggis.

]]> Katelyn http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792167 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792167 Religion Tue, 28 Aug 2007 11:29:27 -0800 Comment by N in Seattle You're being sarcastic, right?

Many highly reputable organizations call their executive boards or directors the "Board of Overseers". If it wouldn't trigger your spam filter for having too many URLs, I'd link to the Massachusetts Board of Bar Overseers, the Harvard Board of Overseers, Penn Dental School's Board of Overseers, and so forth.

Here -- give it a shot on Google...

]]> N in Seattle http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792175 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792175 Religion Tue, 28 Aug 2007 11:34:40 -0800 Comment by arduous Dammit, Dan. Now you've gone and made me almost ... feel sorry for Ted.


]]> arduous http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792177 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792177 Religion Tue, 28 Aug 2007 11:35:42 -0800 Comment by Mr. Poe Zzzzzzz.

]]> Mr. Poe http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792178 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792178 Religion Tue, 28 Aug 2007 11:37:01 -0800 Comment by infrequent "overseers" are sometimes also called "elders" in the church, and in most fundamental churches, the elders are who actually (are supposed to) run things. remember bob moorehead and his "elders". usually the senior pastor is an elder. elders are responsible for church discipline and what not.

ted might want to return to new life, but he in some form submitted to these elders. it may be because he's getting something out of it (retirement, house payments, ???), or because he sincerely wants to be a fundamentalist christian despite the internal struggle he faces with his natural desires. mmmmmmm... desires....

i've decided to title my comment, "ask a former fundie."

]]> infrequent http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792180 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792180 Religion Tue, 28 Aug 2007 11:37:57 -0800 Comment by Will in Seattle So, when are they outing that closeted Republican Senator from South Carolina that keeps speaking on "family values" issues?

Just wondering.

]]> Will in Seattle http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792196 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792196 Religion Tue, 28 Aug 2007 11:58:18 -0800 Comment by Noel Black I have to say that we here in Colorado Springs are still plenty bored with Ted. His influene is now that of a mime's over an army of the blind. However, New Life just elected a new Pastor, and we'd certainly love to see the whole organization and the culture that continues to poison the culture in this town go down in flames of another internal scandal. If Ted can help facilitate this in any way, we're thrilled. So thanks, Dan and Sloggers, for keeping the dream alive. You're working harder than the local reporters, ourselves included!

]]> Noel Black http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792237 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792237 Religion Tue, 28 Aug 2007 12:25:30 -0800 Comment by andy niable If a "cured" Xtian post-homo needs "overseers" it certainly calls into question said "cure."

Queer Nation should regroup and organize a liberation front, kidnap Haggard and de- (or is it re- ?) program him in a closet with bette davis movies and house music. or maybe the Colt Studio can organize a rescue party?

Did someone say party?

Haggard could be the queer's Patty Hearst/Tanya. Or is it he already IS that for the fundies?

]]> andy niable http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792244 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792244 Religion Tue, 28 Aug 2007 12:27:00 -0800 Comment by Providence Am I the only one who sees the irony of meth-bottom Ted having an "Overseer". Heh, heh, I bet his "overseer" comes complete with a whip, chaps, and a codpiece.

]]> Providence http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792256 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792256 Religion Tue, 28 Aug 2007 12:33:54 -0800 Comment by JenK Cute.

What I don't get is why the New Life Church board of overseers (aka elders aka directors) is still involved with Haggard after firing him. Unless, of course, they got him to agree to certain stipulations for getting his severance pay.

Gee, think they'll ask for their money back?

]]> JenK http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792270 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792270 Religion Tue, 28 Aug 2007 12:47:05 -0800 Comment by infrequent why submit?

i can think of three reasons:

1) he has to in order to receive serverence pay or some other tangible benefit

2) he sincerely believes in this church, and submitted to it's authority over him

3) he wants a job in the ministry later, and must -- in order to have credibility in christian circles -- submit to the elders. an overseer might mean nothing here, but to christians that goes a long way to establishing credibility. seriously. ask any fundie.

]]> infrequent http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792276 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792276 Religion Tue, 28 Aug 2007 12:50:42 -0800 Comment by Tlazolteotl I was about to say "oh, boo hoo!" at that last paragraph. Then I got to the last sentence. Heh.

]]> Tlazolteotl http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792300 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792300 Religion Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:06:57 -0800 Comment by UNPAID BLOGGER Fundi-ism is like the mafia; once you're in, YOU'RE IN. The Overseer handle is just a nice way of saying "Hitmen for Jesus".

...tonight, Teddie sleeps with the fishes.

]]> UNPAID BLOGGER http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792305 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792305 Religion Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:10:18 -0800 Comment by COMTE Am I the only one who looks at that photo and imagines Ted saying to the camera, "Pull my finger!"?

]]> COMTE http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792342 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792342 Religion Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:46:42 -0800 Comment by Fnarf Put that finger away, daddy-o, or I cut it off.

]]> Fnarf http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792345 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792345 Religion Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:49:23 -0800 Comment by Gary Zinter The fundie above is right about the 'overseer' thing. 'Submitting' to someone is part of a theology of 'discipleship'. There isn't a separate rationale for it - everyone is supposed to be personally accountible for his actions and thoughts to someone else. I grew up with this stuff. Isn't it charming?

]]> Gary Zinter http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792407 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792407 Religion Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:26:05 -0800 Comment by Gary Zinter The fundie above is right about the 'overseer' thing. 'Submitting' to someone is part of a theology of 'discipleship'. There isn't a separate rationale for it - everyone is supposed to be personally accountible for his actions and thoughts to someone else. I grew up with this stuff. Isn't it charming?

]]> Gary Zinter http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792408 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792408 Religion Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:26:18 -0800 Comment by It's Mark Mitchell As my dear, departed Aunt Zoo Zoo would say, "You are in pig heaven, Dan!"

I must say it's all brought a nice smile to my face today. Larry Craig, this Haggard madness. When I read about those idiot Seahawks making Bush an honorary rich twat or whatever they did, I actually wondered if it would be possible to press charges against them, for treason or something.

Blame it on the herb.

]]> It's Mark Mitchell http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792423 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792423 Religion Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:43:41 -0800 Comment by Issur Dan's obsession with the ignorant Christian goi is Tikkim Olam for our community.

Judaism is a non-hierarchical religion and there is no body of men that "oversees" others. The toxic belief system of the Christians creates this perverted organizational structure.


Judaism is superior in all ways to every other religion because tzedek is realized with every Jewish boy born on this planet.

]]> Issur http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792442 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792442 Religion Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:56:37 -0800 Comment by Ignorant Goi "tzedek" is that like "Santorum"?

]]> Ignorant Goi http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792481 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792481 Religion Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:12:09 -0800 Comment by chris Actually Ignorant Goi, I think Tikkim Olam is like Santorum.

]]> chris http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792565 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792565 Religion Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:08:19 -0800 Comment by Dave Coffman 9 News in Denver has expanded a bit on the story. Nothing really too new except this part:


"In the e-mail sent to KRDO-TV, Haggard said that he and his family were moving into an apartment in the Dream Center in Phoenix in October......The Dream Center is run by Pastor Tommy Barnett, another one of the overseers of the New Life Church. He was appointed to oversee Haggard's "spiritual restoration." Barnett heads up the 15,000 member mega-church Phoenix First Assembly of God."


Very interesting. The Dream Center, where Haggard is now not going to live or work on his lofty goals, has as its head pastor one of his overseers who happens to be an overseer of the church Haggard was fired from. I would love to be a fly on the wall for that conversation.

]]> Dave Coffman http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792675 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792675 Religion Tue, 28 Aug 2007 18:10:22 -0800 Comment by mike jones Just for the record, Dave I appreciate your work, but I am the one urging 9News to do more. They are the station who I went to when I broke the story. If any station will seek additional details it will be them.

]]> mike jones http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792706 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792706 Religion Tue, 28 Aug 2007 20:03:11 -0800 Comment by Dave Coffman That's good Mike... I'm glad to see that a variety of media outlets are continuing to press it. They need to get to make sure that the whole story comes out.

]]> Dave Coffman http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792745 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792745 Religion Tue, 28 Aug 2007 23:25:28 -0800 Comment by Philly I hope everyone knows this, but Issur@19 is a total wingnut. I'm also a jew, and beleive that judaism is also a hierarchical religion and no better than any other. we have our crazy fundamentalists oppressing other just like other religions. Tikkun Olam can be translated as "heal the world" I was taught as a kid that that meant doing good deeds and, you know, "making the world a better place." Dave Coffman's investigative journalism could fall under that heading.
Tsedek means justice. I have no clue how boy jewish babies being born makes any more justice in the world. misogynous pig.
And PS. calling someone a goy is rude.

]]> Philly http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792784 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c792784 Religion Wed, 29 Aug 2007 06:51:47 -0800 Comment by Brian X Interestingly, the word "bishop" descends directly from the Greek episkopos, which means "overseer".

And as an atheist raised Catholic, I don't particularly object to being called a goy. I mean, I am one, so whatever, you know?

]]> Brian X http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c793399 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/08/haggard_has_overseers#c793399 Religion Wed, 29 Aug 2007 20:25:31 -0800