No, he doesn't deserve an asterisk. But maybe an umlaut over the "O" in Bonds?
Barry Bonds is a pile of shit. He's scum. Period.
Barry Bonds is the greatest player of this generation and probably all generations. If he'd played in a neutral park he'd have 800 or more by now.
The greatest player of this generation, and maybe all generations, is Alex Rodriguez, who barring injury will pass Barry and become the all-time HR king.
That says, all props to Barry, the greatest HR hitter in history and a great, great ballplayer, and an upraised middle finger to all his detractors.
He is Barry Bonds and they are not, and they hate him because he knows it.
Barry Bonds may suck at alot of things, but baseball ain't one of them.
i'll tell you one thing brother, roids is more powerful than aphetemines! ooooo-yeeeeeah
Here's to pumpkin-headed roidbags!
The MLB is a joke.
The point is, no one will ever break his record. Performance enhancing drug using athletes will be under such scrutiny that no jock in the future will ever be able to become the bloated, mutated, freakaziod that Bonds was when he did his damage.
A-rod is not the greatest player of this generation for the simple fact that he can't hit the goddamn ball in the post season. The boy ain't clutch. As a Yankee fan I find this very depressing.
Bonds did what a bunch of other guys of his era did--he just happened to be way better at hitting than they were...no one's going over to Jeff Bagwell's house and booing him.
That said, comparing amphetamines with steroids is like comparing the Etch-a-Sketch to the iMac.
Bonds and Pay-Rod are both grandstanding assholes who embody the worst aspects of MLB right now. My hatred of them is justified irrespective of any steroid use.
Most say Bonds started taking things after 1998 - unlike the Sammy Sosa and McGuire - Bonds was a great player before any additives.
If only he had the sweet personality of Mr. Poe, perhaps he would be more highly regarded. Now Ty Cobb there was a nice guy.
In 1998, Bonds got off to a very rocky start, but by season's end he hit .303 with 37 home runs and drove in 122 runs, winning his eighth Gold Glove, and became the first player ever to have career totals of 400 home runs and 400 stolen bases. With two outs in the 9th inning of a game against the Arizona Diamondbacks on May 28, 1998, Bonds became the third player in baseball history to be walked intentionally with the bases loaded (Nap Lajoie and Bill Nicholson were the first two).. Bonds finished 8th in the MVP voting.
pane e circenses.
At least he didn't cork his bat like your boy Sammy.
I forgot Sammy was the one who corked the bat. Never mind. Bonds is okay.
The two other unmentioned enhancements that have changed baseball today are Tommy John surgery, in which pitchers have the ligament in their elbow replaced with a stronger ligament from somewhere else in their body, and lasik surgery. Baseball players probably average 20/15 eyesight now.
MLB = WWF
Every generation has its vices. Ruth didn't compete against people of color. Mays and Aaron popped greenies like candy. Bonds--and many of the pitchers he faced--were juiced (they also, incidentally, were the first generation to engage in year-round weight-training).
A lot of people took steroids. Only one has his 756 home runs. That's a tremendous achievement.
Clutch is a myth. And A-Rod is pound for pound the best baseball player out there. Baseball is also about getting there, through hitting and timely defense. If you do not have the guy that hits you into the playoffs than your team will never be clutch. Clutch is simple mathematics and number of times at bat. Sooner or later youre going to do it. Yankee fans suck major schlong for being supposedly well-informed fans.
Barry did it and the rest is conversation. He is homerun the king and they cant take that from him. What a sweet swing. For the record, I hate the Giants. Maybe I was a Brooklyn Dodgers fan in my previous life.
Gaylord Perry was also a master cheater, and nobody is taking anything away from him.
People talk about Bonds' personality as if anybody cares wether he is a nice guy or not. Who cares. Joe Dimagio, Ted Williams, and a bunch of others were jerks. So what.
@21: DiMaggio and Williams played for the Yankees and Red Sox, respectively, so the fact that they were major league assholes is not notable.
Bonds plays for the Giants. Unlike the Yankees and Red Sox universes, the Giants universe isn't uniformly a giant black hole of douchebaggery. That's what makes Bonds' attitude so galling -- it just doesn't fit.
While Chicago Fan is spot on, the fact remains that the whole thing was a yawn and barely made it through 1 news cycle, let alone the usual 2. No one outside of PacBell Park gives a shit.
Doesn't hurt that he's a serial abuser either. fucker.
Boy, it's going to be mighty quiet at PacBell Park for the rest of the season.
Maybe the San Fran version, but I think if you asked old timers from Brooklyn they would disagree.
@20: clutch is a myth? Don't be goofy.
A player whose monthly average from April to August is in the mid to low 300's, only to have it drop off in September and October to around 250 is not a clutch player. Look at a guy like Ortiz, who batted around 425 the last month of the season last year (maybe the year before, I don't have time to check). I'm supposed to believe that it's just about number of times at bat and mathematics? Really?
Oh, and way to come off as a self righteous douche bag in your post.
I will now return to sucking massive schlong.
Have a nice day!
@6: That's some funny shit!!!
Big papi doesnt hit in the regular season, big papi doesnt get the big hit in the post season. Arod gets you to the post season and jeter sucks during the regular seaso and is good in the post. Clutch is some concept invented for fans who are easily bored. My point is that sooner or later u will get that Pujols like magic hit.
Sorry about that Yankee fans comment man, I just dont like the Yankees. What can I say, I grew up in Philly.
Arod will break teh record in 7-8 years
Barry will never be a hero, no matter how you enhance it.
@28 True that, everyone gets that big hit at some point....some more than others.
Anyone who thinks that "clutch is a myth" has never played competitive sports.
Between the first pitch and the last out, Barry Bonds wears body armor at the plate like a pansy. And he's a terrible outfielder.
Plus, comparing amphetamines to steroids and human growth hormone is apples and oranges, my man. Steroids and HGH can extend your career and build muscle. Amphetamines let you stay up all night drinking booze and banging hookers, and still be awake during the ball game the next day. They don't help you hit home runs, and certainly don't extend your career. Stupid argument.
Finally, to paraphrase David Letterman who was channeling the Babe: "I'd like to see him hit 756 homers drunk off his ass." I hope this means Barry retires after this season, because I'm tired of looking at his fat head.
The issue is Barry Bonds used steriods and Hank Aaron didn't. So the asterisk should be on Hank's record as being legit. Bonds is a liar and cheat and I hope he never makes to the Hall of Fame.
In baseball is a myth. In basketball, Jordan and Bird proved me wrong.
Clutch is not a concept applicable to baseball, it only became popular with the rise of the long ball. People believe in the myth of a clutch hitter as a batter who hits better at more important points of the game or games where they can win the elusive important game, at the same time neglecting the player that gets you there such as the great Alex Rodriguez. People believe that hitting at a certain time is some kind of magical ability called “clutch” but as a Houston Astros fan argues, “clutch is bullshit, it is rather, a combination of bad luck and periods of weak overall hitting and are the true reasons why hitters go through periods in which they leave a large number of runners on base.”
Baseball is not about just a key hit. Baseball is about losing. Yes, its fun to see Edgar Martinez hit that hit that brought Junior home. But because of that weak sentimentality, we kept him around til he was 65 years old limping around the place cuz we thought he was “clutch”. Lets face it. Players are out more times than they make it on base, swingers strike out more ( Hi Richie Sexson) To concentrate on that little hit also ignores defense. Defense gets you there too just ask Ozzie. Its about mathematics and repetition. That is why it is loved, not because somebody hits a ball in the post season.
Oh and I played baseball throughout my youth as well as varsity football and basketball, though in b ball I was benched cuz I played in Philly. =)
Ok Im done with this.
Did the New York Mets fan that caught Bonds ball get killed?
Anybody who thinks clutch isn't a myth doesn't understand how statistics or human observation work. Sort of like people who think batting average is interesting.
Yes. Good points, Chi-fan. There are a lot of guys who used roids and illegal uppers who never amounted to shit. In fact, serving an 80 game suspension for failing a 3rd test is a light hitting retread infielder named Neifi Perez. Roids never really did help Ryan Franklin and Mike Morse.
Even if you knew the name of every roider in baseball, you could probably make a bigger list of guys who never amounted to anything anyway than of guys who had big careers... and most of those guys likely would've had big careers anyway, the enhancement in performance minimal.
As I mentioned before, the primary purpose of HGH and roids is no so much to get stronger and better, but to accelerate muscle recovery. These guys play every day for months, with few days off (not that one day off every few weeks really helps all that much), and I can see guys using the stuff just to go from 'too worn down to play' to 'functional/useful'. That doesn't make it morally correct, but the effect isn't exactly Popeye's spinach... more like fast acting Advil.
A-Rod's going to shatter whatever the record is when Bonds retires anyway.
Here's a stat for ya: clutch = 1 / choke
A-Rod's a choker. Jeter's not. (He swallows).
Bonds achievement is fantastic! Because he's an asshole, people want to shoot him down. Oh, if only all players fit the Cal Ripken Jr mold, what a nice, clean, safe environment our ballparks would be! (Cal is awesome! Remember the "Yankee's Suck!" nonsense at Safeco, though?) There are always suspicions surrounding anybody who does anything extraordinary, it's called jealousy! Bud Selig is the worst offender. That piece of shit should have bit down hard and made this a celebration/promotion for MLB! The NFL saturates television 24/7/365. The teams only play 16 God Damned games! 15 baseball games a day, and i often can't find one (besides the tremendously frustrating Mariner's). i'm also seeing more footage and player reports of NFL PRACTICE than of actual MLB GAMES! WTF?
Bonds did it. A-rod's on his way (probably without a World Series ring either). Dump Selig!
I LOVE YOU BARRY! Giants fucking rule ALL!
Alex Rodriguez is the greatest player in the game because he plays the most demanding defensive position, shortstop, and because he hits the shit out of the ball.
Alex is the only shortstop in history that anybody could compare with Honus Wagner with a straight face.
Only on a fucked outfit like the Yankees, which is all about hype, would they move Alex off shortstop, even though Jeter can't carry his jock, hitting or fielding.
Only stupid Yankee fans believe in idiot ideas like "clutch." The stat weenies debunked that ten years ago. If all you listen to is idiots on TV, who exist only for idiots who get all their information from TV, then of course you'll believe that there is such a thing as "clutch."
But this thread is about Barry Bonds. All hail Barry Bonds, and whatever substance he used. It's his lookout and not yours.
Yo, SeMe, where in Philly you from? 5-2 Jefferson here.
the question is, will anyone ever hit 74 home runs w/o a performance enhancing drug...
Derek "Past a Diving" Jeter can't carry A-Rod's jock. A-Rod hasn't been a shortstop for several years now, and neither one of them can play the position anymore (Jeter never could), but A-Rod blows him away in every conceivable way.
Still hard to take away from Hans, though. A shortstop leading the league in OPS eight times, SLG six times, OBP four, stolen bases five times -- ARod doesn't have numbers like that. He should have six MVPS, though.
I'll give ARod the edge over Bonds, and Ruth, and Cobb, and Wagner, after a few more years of this.
but when it comes down to it it's still some old guy getting paid $$$ to hit a ball w/ a stick. woopy.
Whatever @ 12,
Pete Rose was a great player before he became a manager and bet on games he was managing.
Bonds can have the record, but he broke the law if not the rules of baseball (hello, dopes, steroids are illegal) so no Hall of Fame pass for Barry.
Gomez @ 38, sorry, but it's all but proven that stronger hitters can hit the ball farther. That's why the records of Bonds, McGwire, Sosa and Palmiero are all suspect. No one ever alleged that they gave them the ability to hit a ball in the Majors, just the ability to knock some pop flies over the fence.
Anyone question any of this? Read Game of Shadows and come back to me with specific informed critiques.
Yo -I grew up in North Camden across the bridge. Lived on Diamond near Temple.
Phills, Eagles, Owls, Sixers...
Dr J is god, Greg Lusinski was hercules, and Mayor Rizzo was a douchebag. Joey Merlino was framed. In this I beleive.
Matt from Denver @ 45:
Yeah, and Babe Ruth drank a lot of beer and whiskey during Prohibition, when that was illegal, and he went to a lot of whorehouses, when prostitution was illegal. So stick your argument, and Game of Shadows, where the sun don't shine.
All hail Barry!
Prohibition was a bad and dumb law, the steroids ban is not.
Keeping black players away so that white players like Ruth could shine was a racist, bad, dumb and idiotic law, it was also cheating since these white “stars” DID NOT play against the best. Cheating was wide spread back then, people just want to think it was all better in the old days.
For the record, Satchel Paige would have wiped the floor with Ruth and Ruth would have never hit a ball off of him. Paige was still playing at a 106 years old when he took the mound for the Kansas City Athletics.
If I inject some 'roids, will that help make me care about this record being broken? Was the Babe juiced up on booze? Did anyone care then? As Barry essentially said: "Don't hate me because I'm good." But, alas, that's not the way the weinie world operates. Tant pis.
SeMe - agreed, but I'm not making the argument that Bonds' record should have an asterisk or be excluded from the official stats. He's the single season and career home run king, for now. He can have it.
Barry Bonds is the best baseball player of this generation. He's the all-time home run king. Deal with it, whiners.
My friend in NYC calls ARod "Mr. April" because it's all downhill from there!
you know what is actually more impressive about bonds from a stats POV. the amount of walks. hes the wayne gretzky of walks.
How about we talk about a real sport?
Baseball is seriously fucking lame.
just a note:
the juice was not *illegal* when he was drinking it
the only asterisk next to Bond's HR record is going to read: "and no one really gave a shit"
[even fuckin' Bush didn't think it was worth the trouble to call Bonds, until the next fuckin' afternoon. what a joke.]
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