Slog - Comments on The Greater Seattle Commute Experiment http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment If you’ve ever wondered what the Seattle metro area would be like if drivers were less coddled, I present to you the I-5 Spokane Street to I-90 Bridge Repair. The work on northbound I-5 will require some of the most extensive lane and ramp closures Seattle drivers have ever seen. I-5 will be reduced to two or three lanes during the daytime, and sometimes just one lane overnight, during the intensive 19-day period, Aug. 10 through 29… Drivers will likely face lengthy backups and significant delays on freeways and city streets from 4 a.m. to midnight. Traffic will be... Copyright 2008 Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:06:50 -0800 Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:10:01 -0800 http://www.movabletype.org/?v=3.34 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Comment by Lloyd Clydesdale Will you sign my TB quarantine order?

]]> Lloyd Clydesdale http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771510 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771510 Science Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:48:47 -0800 Comment by unPC Why do ST and Metro have no plan to add busses?
Why is there no satellite parking (say at Southcenter or Boeing) with special busses running downtown?
Why do all the agencies fail to coordinate -- is WashDOT trying to create congestion to prove we need highways?

]]> unPC http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771514 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771514 Science Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:51:31 -0800 Comment by Cale Can we tear down the viaduct now?

plz?

This looks SO awesome-

http://www.seattle.gov/DPD/Planning/Central_Waterfront/Overview/

]]> Cale http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771528 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771528 Science Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:04:03 -0800 Comment by we_need_real_transit Light rail construction is well under way. The projects are coming in on time and under budget. Soon, there will be frequent and convenient service from SeaTac Airport to Downtown. Catch the Wave!

]]> we_need_real_transit http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771534 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771534 Science Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:09:56 -0800 Comment by aarons you won't get any of your asshole questions resolved. there aren't any extra buses to use and light rail is MIA. And seattle's surface streets are going to be clogged as well. Yes it will be really funny when back ups extend to tacoma and babies are born on I-5 and people can't get to work to support their families. HIlarious.

]]> aarons http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771548 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771548 Science Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:30:01 -0800 Comment by Mr. X Yeah, just how insensitive to the plight of tens of thousands of ordinary people can the out-of-touch elitists who write for the Stranger be?

]]> Mr. X http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771549 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771549 Science Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:30:11 -0800 Comment by Cato the Younger Younger When that shut down happens would be perfect time for a little quake to hit. JUST enough to take the viaduct down with out any injuries naturally. Let's say a 2 am quake.

But seriously, we all know despite all the warnings no one will really "get" the fact it is shut down until three days into the shut down and then they will start to take the bus. And that means.... DELAYS IN THE BUS ROUTES!!!

]]> Cato the Younger Younger http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771550 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771550 Science Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:30:32 -0800 Comment by MHD @5

And lots of people choose to take vacations and work from home, even if that isn't sustainable for them in the long run.

]]> MHD http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771564 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771564 Science Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:39:49 -0800 Comment by MHD @5

And lots of people choose to take vacations and work from home, even if that isn't sustainable for them in the long run.

]]> MHD http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771570 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771570 Science Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:44:54 -0800 Comment by MHD unPC @2

Uh, ST is planning to add buses. I don't why you'd want to take one, though; the buses will be just as screwed as the cars, and Sounder is a much better option.

]]> MHD http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771574 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771574 Science Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:46:49 -0800 Comment by Gomez We're going to learn a lot during this closure about exactly how prepared this city is to handle closing a major highway.

]]> Gomez http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771583 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771583 Science Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:55:21 -0800 Comment by aarons @10 "Underused buses might offer a smoother commute -- if there are any around at rush hour; Metro Transit officials said it won't be able to add any buses." http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/transportation/324467_freeway20.html?source=mypi

@11- things will be fucked up. many people stuck in traffic. alternate routes clogged. just call me nostradamus.

]]> aarons http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771589 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771589 Science Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:05:33 -0800 Comment by Gitai @5, 6 You seem to be under the impression that increased capacity leads to shorter commute times, when in fact, the exact opposite is true. See, people are actually kind of smart. They don't see a headline that says half of I-5 will be shut down for nearly three weeks and go, "Hmmm...I will continue in the exact same routine and deal with massive amounts of congestion." They figure out ways to deal with it. Praise God above, I don't commute. Sadly, I do drive for business. A lot. However, being aware of this closure, I'm going to use alternate routes, just like I had to earlier this month to avoid the clusterfuck that Denny became. Frankly, I'm just going to do my best to avoid any meeting that would normally obligate me to take this route. It's probably not worth the hassle.

Now multiply my thinking times thousands of people. I'm not saying there won't be congestion. There will be. I'm just saying that people aren't the helpless victims you make them out to be.

]]> Gitai http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771591 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771591 Science Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:09:29 -0800 Comment by aarons @13- I'm well versed in new urbanism. but capacity will be 40% of what it normally is. So 99 and 405 and surface streets will be clogged with the other 60%. yes people will drive less and carpool and crowd onto buses. It still though will cause a lot of headaches. Traffic back ups presently at rush hour are probably worse than you realize and they will only be much worse.

]]> aarons http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771605 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771605 Science Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:22:41 -0800 Comment by Lloyd Clydesdale For East-West travel, I predict that's where the highest increase in beatings will occur over this span.

Wagers, anyone?

]]> Lloyd Clydesdale http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771615 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771615 Science Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:39:03 -0800 Comment by Will in Seattle Who uses I-5?

Not people in Seattle - we mostly use other methods.

It's the SUBURBANITES who will suffer most.

GOOD!

]]> Will in Seattle http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771641 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771641 Science Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:08:35 -0800 Comment by Mr. X Gitai-

On what New Urbanist fantasy planet does reducing capacity reduce congestion and reduce travel times?

You can talk about induced demand with regard to increasing capacity (though I think that is somewhat overrated as a talking point - I-90 is a lot faster now than it was before it was expanded, even with the new users), but there is NO evidence that I'm aware of that the converse (or inverse) is true.

Tell you what, let's look at what a clusterfuck downtown streets (and the dreaded AWV!) become when I-5 experiences these lane closures and then you can try making this ridiculous assertion again.

Lots of people won't be able to stop trying to get through Downtown Seattle during this construction period, and those of you that have the luxury of avoiding this route and/or its alternatives ought to be a little more sensitive to the REAL WORLD hardship this will be for thousands and thousands of folks.

]]> Mr. X http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771645 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771645 Science Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:13:00 -0800 Comment by Jay #5: Where are you getting this idea that light rail is MIA? Because to be frank, it sounds like you're pulling that claim out of your ass.

]]> Jay http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771647 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771647 Science Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:15:10 -0800 Comment by Wendy @12 - ST and Metro are different agencies. ST is running more busses, Metro isn't. Get it?

]]> Wendy http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771653 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771653 Science Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:28:04 -0800 Comment by Mr. X Oh, and light rail is 10 years late and 1/3 less than was originally promised. I wouldn't call it MIA in regard to this particular post, but it's completely irrelevent, as it won't open until 2009 at the earliest.

]]> Mr. X http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771655 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771655 Science Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:30:34 -0800 Comment by Gitai @17 How about Downtown Seattle? With 3rd Ave closed to all but buses during rush hour, people are moving through Downtown faster than ever.

If we added congestion pricing, it would be even better.

]]> Gitai http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771656 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771656 Science Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:32:30 -0800 Comment by Mr. X Um, not on 1st, 2nd, 4th, or 5th Avenues they aren't.

]]> Mr. X http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771673 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771673 Science Fri, 27 Jul 2007 17:08:06 -0800 Comment by Transit Fan I purposely decided to take vacation during one week of the work and at my office we cancelled all meetings during that time that required people to travel that corridor (which is all trips basically)

Obviously it is easy to change behavior and accomadate this closure in the short term by encouraging people to take an august 'break'.

]]> Transit Fan http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771680 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771680 Science Fri, 27 Jul 2007 17:40:08 -0800 Comment by aarons @18- genius they are MIA in august of 2007 when they will be needed.

]]> aarons http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771689 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771689 Science Fri, 27 Jul 2007 18:22:28 -0800 Comment by Lloyd Clydesdale Mr. X -- Nice to see ya.

]]> Lloyd Clydesdale http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771713 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771713 Science Fri, 27 Jul 2007 19:56:35 -0800 Comment by Goebbels for Transit Link light rail has been running since June of 2006 from Sea-Tac to the University District. As has been said many times Sound Transit is on schedule and under budget. Mr X stop lying. Nowhere on ST's site will you see anything that says different.

]]> Goebbels for Transit http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771751 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771751 Science Fri, 27 Jul 2007 22:22:56 -0800 Comment by Troy The impact of a two-week, special-purpose change will not be representative. Higher pain threshold when commuters only have to make do for 2 weeks. Also, employers will provide more leeway for changes that would not be permanently practical.

Net result, the real risk is trying to infer permanent behavior change.

]]> Troy http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771938 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771938 Science Sun, 29 Jul 2007 07:04:10 -0800 Comment by chris i heard that the manager of the ballard branch wamu wouldn't be showing up and the branch would be closed during this time. is that legal?

]]> chris http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771957 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771957 Science Sun, 29 Jul 2007 12:02:19 -0800 Comment by Mr. X You funny, Joe G. (certainly moreso than your namesake!). Sadly, except for your first sentence (you know - the one about a functioning system!), that' s just about literally the typical ST apologist's response.

Thanks for the shout out Lloyd, this echo chamber can seem kinda lonely sometimes!

]]> Mr. X http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771998 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c771998 Science Sun, 29 Jul 2007 15:57:46 -0800 Comment by Orv They just need some branding. If they call it the "I-5 Surface Solution" everyone in Seattle will embrace it.

]]> Orv http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c772132 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c772132 Science Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:07:44 -0800 Comment by bgmzfv tyidl gqfilnue cdwhvoa qsumnvbte jdhe qopaywh vtyareu sjzu

]]> bgmzfv tyidl http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c780990 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c780990 Science Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:09:29 -0800 Comment by btloxfvpg lhgxmcbia gwpzykvbe xkfly lwnvi ibfhp cyqzow xsupzwia sqxrgp http://www.sjaniptm.ivlkq.com

]]> btloxfvpg lhgxmcbia http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c780991 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/the_greater_seattle_commute_experiment#c780991 Science Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:10:01 -0800