Slog - Comments on My Hillary Headache http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache I'm finishing up a column for this week's Stranger about how Hillary Clinton is doing in Washington State. In the piece, no surprise, I mention Bill Clinton. So now I have two Clintons that I'm working with, which means I have to differentiate them as I'm writing, all within the confines of a short piece that can't get too wordy. I could use the construction that her campaign seems to like and just call her "Hillary." But there's a sense here that this sounds demeaning, even if "Hillary" likes to be called "Hillary." Another option: "Sen. Clinton," clearly distinct from... Copyright 2008 Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:20:08 -0800 Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:15:19 -0800 http://www.movabletype.org/?v=3.34 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Comment by Horace Couldn't you just do the same thing with the first names that you normally do with nouns vs. pronouns? So, like, call her Hillary Clinton the first time you mention her, then refer to her just as Clinton until you mention Bill Clinton, then refer to him as Clinton until you mention Hillary Clinton, then... and you get the idea. Maybe that'd be klunky in practice?

]]> Horace http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761065 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761065 2008 Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:34:34 -0800 Comment by Mr. Poe Why don't you just call them both Billary?

]]> Mr. Poe http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761070 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761070 2008 Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:38:10 -0800 Comment by You_Gotta_Be_Kidding_Me What's wrong with Mrs. Clinton?

]]> You_Gotta_Be_Kidding_Me http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761074 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761074 2008 Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:39:42 -0800 Comment by Will in Seattle Or you could call her VP Clinton.

]]> Will in Seattle http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761079 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761079 2008 Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:41:01 -0800 Comment by Eli Sanders @3: We tend not to use honorifics. So if we used "Mrs. Clinton" we might end up with a sentence that included "Mrs. Clinton" and "Edwards" and "Obama" — which would look weird.

Put another way: We don't say "Mr. Edwards" and "Mr. Obama." Why make an exception for her and say "Mrs. Clinton"?

]]> Eli Sanders http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761097 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761097 2008 Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:49:14 -0800 Comment by seattle98104 One's Cock, the other is Cocksucker.

Problem solved.

]]> seattle98104 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761100 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761100 2008 Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:51:43 -0800 Comment by Bellevue Ave H. Clinton?

Poe stole my joke.

]]> Bellevue Ave http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761101 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761101 2008 Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:51:51 -0800 Comment by Trey You could use "she-Clinton" and "he-Clinton"...

]]> Trey http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761109 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761109 2008 Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:58:43 -0800 Comment by S I'm betting on HRC and WJC. That's chatty, informal but not rude, and consistent.

]]> S http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761119 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761119 2008 Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:08:33 -0800 Comment by SDA in SEA You could say Bill Clinton or Hillary Clinton at the first mention. Then thereafter refer to them both by their first names, Bill and Hillary. That way if anyone considers it a diminutive, at least they are both equal, and you can't be accused of treating one of them differently. That works if the article is mostly about the two of them, not so much if it is part of a broader article including other candidates.

Alternately, you could differentiate like the Bush presidents, referring to Bill Clinton as "Clinton 42", and Hillary Clinton as "Clinton 44 wannabe". :-)

]]> SDA in SEA http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761125 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761125 2008 Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:14:38 -0800 Comment by You_Gotta_Be_Kidding_Me How about Romanizing the name Clinton using the correct gender?

WJC = Clintonus

HRC = Clintona

This would have the added benefit of sounding appropriately imperial and dynastic and all…

]]> You_Gotta_Be_Kidding_Me http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761152 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761152 2008 Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:31:35 -0800 Comment by Will in Seattle a Facebook friend of mine back east thinks we should have Paris Hilton for Pres and Tori Spelling for VP.

I think the other way around would be better.

]]> Will in Seattle http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761168 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761168 2008 Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:47:50 -0800 Comment by You_Gotta_Be_Kidding_Me Will, I'd support either ticket as long as Nicole Richie will serve as Secretary of State!

]]> You_Gotta_Be_Kidding_Me http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761178 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761178 2008 Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:53:47 -0800 Comment by Fnarf Bill is just emeritus these days. "Clinton" means Hillary. Use "Clinton" for her and "Bill" for him. She's the subject; he's just the PR guy.

]]> Fnarf http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761187 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761187 2008 Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:08:19 -0800 Comment by You_Gotta_Be_Kidding_Me And we all know how much he likes his "public relations"...

]]> You_Gotta_Be_Kidding_Me http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761192 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761192 2008 Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:11:59 -0800 Comment by Christin @9: I really like HRC, but I can't help but see Human Rights Campaign every time I read it.

@14: Agreed. I like "Clinton" and "Bill."

]]> Christin http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761195 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761195 2008 Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:17:07 -0800 Comment by Jason Josephes Honestly, I don't see any problem with just calling her Hillary. That's how we've known her for years. It's not sexist, just simple.

]]> Jason Josephes http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761198 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761198 2008 Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:18:30 -0800 Comment by no I think #14 is on-track, however, perhaps you underestimate your reader? If the article is about Hillary Clinton, do what you'd normally do: Just use her last name. When Bill Clinton comes up, just use President Clinton or former President Clinton or Bill Clinton or Mr. Clinton. Or be formal for a change.

The article is about Hillary Clinton so if Bill is only mentioned briefly, this should be easy. No need to dumb it down to the casual "Hillary", (which sounds like a sloppy work-around, IMO.)

Lastly, there are many women out there who came into political positions after their husbands where previously in that position. (Sonny Bono's wife, the wife of that poor guy in Missouri who died and beat John Ashcroft anyway, Benazir Bhutto, etc.) How have those reporters handled it?

]]> no http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761213 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761213 2008 Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:46:02 -0800 Comment by longball just one of the unforseen pitfalls of the ascendency of women in america...

]]> longball http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761247 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761247 2008 Tue, 10 Jul 2007 18:42:46 -0800 Comment by lostboy I could use the construction that her campaign seems to like and just call her “Hillary.” But there’s a sense here that this sounds demeaning, even if “Hillary” likes to be called “Hillary.”

Nanny state-ish much? She's a grown woman. She can decide for herself what appellation is or is not demeaning.

]]> lostboy http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761256 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761256 2008 Tue, 10 Jul 2007 19:06:13 -0800 Comment by KENTUCKY KERNEL OF TRUTH We will all hold our collective breath until tomorrow, but I'm guessing you're gonna reveal that Hillary's never visited a lesbo bar even though - well that's enough titillation for now. One can only imagine the angst you would experience if Sir Edmund Hillary were running for president.

]]> KENTUCKY KERNEL OF TRUTH http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761258 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761258 2008 Tue, 10 Jul 2007 19:09:21 -0800 Comment by jamier just one of the unforseen pitfalls of the ascendency of women in america...

You mean, just one of the unforeseen pitfalls of the practice of women taking their husbands' names for the purpose of indicating ownership.

]]> jamier http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761276 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761276 2008 Tue, 10 Jul 2007 19:53:20 -0800 Comment by Gomez Oh, just shut the fuck up and just call her Hillary. It honestly doesn't fucking matter. You're being foolish.

]]> Gomez http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761361 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761361 2008 Wed, 11 Jul 2007 00:14:29 -0800 Comment by hey And you're being bossy. Hmph.

Calling her "Hillary" seems faux-familiar and trying-to-be cute.

Even if the Stranger doesn't use honorifics, maybe for this one they should.

Now I know why the NY Times uses "Mr. Obama" and "Ms. Clinton", etc.

]]> hey http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761371 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761371 2008 Wed, 11 Jul 2007 00:39:36 -0800 Comment by Tiny Ballerina May all your problems be this stupid.Perhaps you can get a job working for Bush.

]]> Tiny Ballerina http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761416 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761416 2008 Wed, 11 Jul 2007 06:05:19 -0800 Comment by Gloria I like 18's solution. This is the protocol for other politicians ... reporters discuss them by their surname, and their spouses (usually with no active political standing) by their honorific + surname.

The problem with "Mrs" is that it emphasizes the woman's identity as defined by her husband, while "Mr" is a simple appellation. So "Mrs" wouldn't fit so well in an article that focuses on Hillary Clinton as a politician, not a wife.

(What I really love is how often newspapers describe a woman as "his neighbour's wife" rather than just "his neighbour.")

Come on, semantics is fun!

]]> Gloria http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761417 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761417 2008 Wed, 11 Jul 2007 06:06:32 -0800 Comment by ica What happened to the days of her hyphenated name? Rodham-Clinton. She may not actively use it, but it's still "respectful" enough.

]]> ica http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761672 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c761672 2008 Wed, 11 Jul 2007 13:48:08 -0800 Comment by miles whaddabout mrs. clinton? really ain't a big deal.

]]> miles http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c765783 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/my_hillary_headache#c765783 2008 Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:15:19 -0800