Comments on Ethics Schmethics

Ew.

Does anyone else find the "resting on his living room floor" part, like, REALLY really wierd? I mean... Buy a couch.

When I was in high school/early college I was in a drum & bugle corps (those of you who don't know what that is, consider yourself lucky. It's a weird, militaristic subculture that is dying off quickly, but not quickly enough. I don't know what I was thinking.)

Anyway, one of the bugle "coaches" was a fortysomething guy who struck up a relationship with one of the high school girls. They ended up getting married as well, and stay married to this day.

That's pretty wholesome, compared to the color guard "coach" who managed to sleep with a few of the boys every season. And he was a high school band director.

In the late '80s, a vice principal at a Seattle public high school married a sophmore that he impregnated. And kept his job!

@2: Yeah, I thought that was really odd, too, although not so much the "on the floor" bit as its inclusion in the article at all. What, the reporter phoned him up and he said, "Well, we're just resting on my living room floor watching some TV now, but I don't have any other comment"? Weird.

Joke? I think you just described every teacher in my high school's science department!

why would you sign that consent form? Talk about spoiling your kids!

This doesn't strike me as the least bit unusual, except that he actually married the girl. I can think of three teachers in my home town that got fired for having sex with students (all of these teachers were women, strangely enough) and one that quit and married a 16 year old girl. I hated that guy. He was an amazing band teacher (the girl was the drum majorette)and his replacement, my band teacher for four fucking years, was a total dick. If he'd kept his dick in his pants for two more years, I'd have had a much better band experience.

A 40-year-old high school science teacher and cross country coach has resigned his position and married a 16-year-old student.

Adult Decision Time

Well, if the parents didn't sign the form, they probably would have lost their daughter forever.

Joseph belief in life, evry persun you cross pathe with, it for reesun, it plannd befour you incarnate. It challinge, but wen you folow yur intyuitsion, it best for evryone, even peepel who dissagree. If I cross countrie coasch, I do same thing.

You know, this is not that unusual. At least worldwide.

My psychology teacher, late forties, married one of his students as soon as she graduated.

The only unusual-ick factor? This was his second marriage... and while he was marrying a 18-year-old, he already had a 14-year-old daughter.

In 1961, My parents got married when my mom was 18 and my dad was 42, and they stayed married for 40 years. It's just our sensibilities that have changed.

16 year olds have no business getting married. None. The parents can't bitch about it and simultaneously sign the consent form. It doesn't work that way. It's a bit like "I don't trust your driving... but here, have the keys."

1. Apparently there was no sex that violated the law....they are both of the age of consent or consent with parental permission which was granted...so there is nothing legally wrong. Period.

2. If you give in to your feeling of "ick" then you cannot fault other people who go "ick" when they may see gays, inter-racial couples, etc. RAther than just react based on "ick" --it is better to adhere to principles of equality, respect, diversity, and freedom of choice in these highly personal matters.

...so when did they meet...was she 15, 14, 13??? doesn't it seem like she could have been easily manipulated into the arms of this older, authoritarian figures loving arms? screw the ick what about this young womens future and how fucked up it's about to get...her parents suck and that teacher should be fired...

I think there's more to it, unPC, than whether it's legal. He was a teacher and she was a student. That is considered unethical by most people, regardless of the parties' ages, because in many scenarios it involves an abuse of power.

above

Abuse of power or love?

My mom and dad were 24 years apart - dad is dead, she still calls him the love of her life.... she was 18 and he was the most charming and handsome man she had ever met... so she says to all interested.

My two sisters and I noticed in our teens that they had a great sex life ... mom chatted about it with me as I was about to get married ... Dad was not the vocal type.

Mom is till alive today and is the strongest willed person I have ever known, grounded earth mother type aging Ingrid Bergman model, and with a smiling and friendly personality, all close to her love her dearly.

Exploited? Hardly .... love my friends, love.

I don't really see the problem. Depends on the intelligence/maturity of the girl, but. . .people make stupid relationship decisions and enable icky power dynamics at every age. It might be a terrible thing, but it might just be two people in inconvenient love. Having been in inconvenient love myself, I sympathize.

@16: Really? How young would she have to be before my immediate "ick" response becomes justifiable rather than a personal inability to "adhere to principles of equality"? 15? 14? 12? Anything post-puberty? Adolescence may be a social construct, but it still exists, and the years between 15 and 18 or 19 are important ones. A 16-year-old in modern America, physically capable of starting a family though she may be, is incredibly unlikely to be developmentally prepared for an adult relationship that is ostensibly going to last the rest of her life. What is much more likely is that this girl is going to have trouble forming healthy adult attachments later. I hardly think discomfort at that is comparable to saying "ick" to what two consenting adults get up to.

What troubles me about this isn't really the legality of it, or whether or not a 16-year-old is capable of consenting to sex, though. It's that teachers hold a large amount of power in the lives of teenagers; they are meant to be helping to guide their students through a process, not interrupting it. I am troubled - yes, I say "ick" - by a teacher who either does not see or does not care about the hard-to-define but still important boundary between adult and almost-adult, and who essentially violates the trust placed in him or her to act as an authority figure and mentor to young people.

Could this girl be the most emotionally mature 16-year-old in the world? Sure. It's certainly possible. But my "ick" response here is based on the fact that it's pretty damn unlikely to be the case.

Eh, a lot of people twice her age make stupid mistakes in relationships too, I just don't think she's going to end up scarred for life.

I don't understand it, but I also don't understand some of the normal relationships my friends have.

You know what's sad about this story? That this poor girl is settling for a mere teacher's salary.

If she's willing to marry a 40 year old, she could do much better than that.

@23

And now he's an unemployed teacher.

@24:

an unemployed teacher and track coach who will never work as a teacher again, most likely. i wonder if there are any day care centers in the area where he can work so he can start grooming his next wife, whom he'll need when his current wife hits 20 and will be too old for him.

poor girl-- but really, what a sad guy.

Going back to the lounging around on the floor thing, teenagers are the only ones who do that. Once you get past your college years and grow up, you buy some furniture and start using it. That detail, along with the marriage to a 16-year-old, is making me think that the teacher is actually a teenager in a 40-year-old's body -- which is both icky and pathetic.

the parents okayed this? they did not have to. they would not have lost their daughter. they would have a few arguments, i'm sure.

but if they didn't okay it, and student and teacher left together, had sex, or got married, then there would be severe legal consequences.

One of my sisters married at 15, to a 32-year-old man. The guy was an abusive asshole, and a borderline pedophile. When my sister left him, he was 44 - and he married a 16-year-old girl. Sorry, but that has forever left me squicked over the idea of middle-aged people marrying young teenagers. It's a power dynamic thing; any time there's a major difference between the two people, it makes marriages problematic. I always assume any man who keeps being attracted to younger and younger women has insecurity issues.

Besides, what in hell do you TALK about with a young teenager? I can't for the life of me imagine trying to hold any kind of substantive discussion with someone whose life experience is less than 1/3 my own.

I thought most states made it illegal for a teacher to have sex with an under 18 student? Guess not in North Carolina.

A 40 year old and a 16 year old don't *date*, the 40 year old seduces the 16 year old. Because the 16 year old doesn't know what the hell they are doing, and the 40 year old does (unless they are mentally incompetant.)

I have a 9 year old daughter. I realize by 16 she will be a young adult and a sexual being. She should get to learn about the complexities of love from a man or a woman at her own stage of life. What would I do if she started dating a 40 year old? Probably be equally angry at the 40 year old and at myself for fucking up in not raising a kid who knew right from wrong.

@29: To your first point... From the article, it sounds as though there was no substantive evidence found that there had been any misconduct, either legal or in terms of state/school employment.

How charming. 40 year old teachers can marry their 16 year old students and it does nothing to harm the sanctity of marriage so long as they're not both the same sex.

Darcy, rereading the article... yes, I guess they didn't actually consumate the relationship until they were married. My bad. Still a 10 on the "Slimy Meter", though.

Oh, for sure. The whole thing is just... unsettling to say the least.