Ari, my sentiments exactly.

Sweet.

I'm not willing to concede the point (since your claim of unwatchability leads me to doubt you've watched enough recent shows to actually say whether it's still good enough).

But!

Even if you're right (which you're not), whatever your definition of a "great show" is, could we not at least agree that the Simpsons is the show with the highest number of great episodes ever, due to AD's early demise, and the Simpsons' 400 goddamn episode tenure?

Ari, if you really wanted to show us your alleged debate club skills, you would now produce a post explaining why The Simpsons is the greatest television show of all time.

Youth is wasted on the young.

Yeah, I actually was forced to watch all of last season by a [ex]boyfriend who would not concede my [unpopular] point. The Simpsons definitely was a great show, but another favorite from that same era might have the greatest number of awesome episodes: Star Trek: the Next Generation.

I am so not kidding. Rent them, I swear. I love all the episodes with Q and all the episodes where Picard was a Borg and all the episodes where Data was Sherlock Holmes on the Holodeck. Fucking so brilliant.

#4: Don't tempt me.

Also, I've thought about it, and Freaks and Geeks was better than Arrested Development.

You've got to be kidding me. Arrested Development was horrible ... Knocked Up horrible ...

The best show on television was and will always be the first and second seasons of The Office (BBC) and the Christmas special. Little else even comes close.

The greatest show of all time was,is, and will always be Spaced, starring Simon Pegg.

And the best Next Generation moment happened not on The Next Generation but on Reading Rainbow, when Lavar Burton took everyone on set and showed you how they made the transporter glitter by using Crest Kids sparkly toothpaste.

10: Find me YouTube. Oh my god. That sounds amazing.

To knock the Simpsons and weigh later episodes vs. the newer ones ... ok but to spit out ...

Arrested Development ...

Are you trying to sound pretentious?

@9 - i agree. but you may have read by now, white people suck. best take The Office out of contention.

Ari. You are right, right, right.

Thank you.

Personally, I find the Simpsons boring.

I'm much more interested in the Futurama movie coming out.

Or Stardust - that's a good one.

Arrested Development is pretty brilliant, but I am going to be singularly unhip and say that I think Seinfeld was better. And AD owes a lot to Seinfeld in terms of those separate story arcs coming together to one brilliant conclusion.

Also, there are millions of brilliant
British series. But they also have the luxury there of doing a 10 ep season. Or a 6 ep season. Or even a 4 ep season. And then they can choose to have the series end after 1 season or 2 or 3. So, personally, I don't think it's fair to compare quality. It's easy to make 10 brilliant episodes when you have a freaking YEAR. it's harder when you're under a normal schedule of 22 eps in about 30 wks.

11: My childhood memory fails me. It was regular glitter. I still think toothpaste would been prettier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BJP4Ii8-_Y

#12: Are you calling me pretentious or Arrested Development pretentious?

Arrested Development is in no way pretentious. The jokes were most often about sluts (Linsey), social or literal retards (Buster, Gob and Charlize Theron), and drunks (Mom). There's nothing pretentious about that.

You can call me whatever you want, but I'm protective of my TV.

#16-Thank you for debunking the myth of the superiority of British television.

You're all wrong Firefly hands down.

Actually, yeah ... I'm calling you out. I enjoyed Arrested Development. I think the jokes are great, it's very funny. I laughed out loud. But guess what? It had terrible ratings. Regardless of how many emmy's that show did or would inevitably produce, no one watched it. Sadly, it's more intelectual humor because it's not that easy to watch especially if you are viewing it week to week. I didn't appreciate it as much until I saw the DVDs. (the banana stand is fucking priceless! the cornballer!)

The jokes aren't also timeless, the early episodes of the Simpsons are timeless, more family oriented, real world family values that reminded me much of my family at the time.

As for the best show of all time, we'll see what Earl and Scrubs can produce for that style of humor before we call it dead.

I vote six feet under. Or is this just the comedy category?

I agree with you wholeheartedly, about The Simpsons and about Arrested Development. Now, I'm going to go back to manning the banana stand.

And you know what? The Office - the US version - is a strong contender for one of the top spots. And I'm as big a fan of the original as anyone.

Ari @6, you're stoned. Your own post asserts that The Simpsons was consistently great for 6 seasons (2-7). ST:TNG had 7 seasons total, and you'd be hard pressed to argue that the first season--like The Simpsons but worse--wasn't a complete write-off, leaving a matching 6 seasons as a potential greatness pool.

Unlike The Simpsons, ST:TNG suffered a poor signal-to-noise ratio through most of its run, moments of greatness countered by frequent embarrassments like bringing back Wesley Crusher, or clichéd and inane writing for Data as bad as the dialogue for Spock in the original series.

I was thinking "Arrested Development" before I got through your first paragraph.

C'mon, people: pretentious? "Bob Loblaw's Law Blog" -- Bob Loblaw played by CHACHI? David Cross as an "analrapist"? Funniest show ever. And the relatively short run makes it better, not worse.

Though I might want to make an argument for "The Larry Sanders Show", or "I'm Alan Partridge" or "The Office". But I'll take "Arrested Development".

I would definitely agree with THE OFFICE(UK) being the best television show ever.

On a side note:
Garth Merenghi's Darkplace might be the best worst(intentionally) show ever.

I found Arrested Development to be totally unwatchable, mostly because the characters were all so unlikable and the "jokes" were simplistic humiliation gags. Also, I usually can't stand voiceovers that add nothing to the story and just seem to describe what's going on (i.e. "George Michael walks across the room." – uh, yeah).

The Simpsons conversely provides a rather fascinating social commentary, and most importantly it always makes me laugh. Many of the episodes have humor that operates at multiple levels, not so with AD.

Honestly, I'd say the greatest show of all time may be All in the Family which managed to touch on painful social issues like the racism of its anti-hero, Archie Bunker, and still be funny. Not to mention the fact that everything that show pioneered, in terms of writing and character relationships, is still being copied on TV today.

My personal fave:
Buffy the Vampire Slayer RULZ, SUCKAHS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@28

With the exception of the believing arrested development was unwatchable (I don't like buffy either), I guess I'm with you with respect to all in the family as the best comedy of all time.

I've found that there are two kinds of people in this world: people who get Arrested Development, and people who do not. I get along well with people who get it I think.

oh man Ari, Arrested Development and Star Trek: TNG? Come watch TV with me.

Do you like House too? Futurama? Freaks and Geeks? Home Movies? Venture Bros.?

In my early or mid teens I liked Simpsons enough to subscribe to the abortive venture that was Simpsons Illustrated.

But I haven't watched the show more than a half dozen times in, like, probably ten years. Bart's defiance got tired. Lisa's endless and fruitless (and hackneyed) progressivism just got depressing. And Homer's endless stupidity just got... well, stupid.

#31: Do you have cable? Ha! Just kidding, I won't watch TV with anyone who I met on a blog.

i could spend all day rattling off simpsons quotes:

"purples a fruit"
"avoision. its a perfectly cromulent word."
"you dont make friends w salad."
"a noble spirit embiggens the smallest man"
"did i say steamed clams? i meant steamed hams."
"see my vest! see my vest! made of real gorilla chest."
"arr, ye call that an anchor?"
"mmm. i earned my treat."
"youve brought great joy to this old italian stereotype."
"speed holes--they make the car go faster."

etc. there are many, many more.

your turn, arrested development.

I second this motion. And I agree about Arrested Development; it holds both, wit and humor, balanced oh so nicely atop a continual storyline.

#34: That doesn't attest to the greatness of the show, it attests to the power of your memory. I could spout tons of lines from Arrested Development but I'm not good at remembering and retelling lines like that (even ones from the Simpsons).

To # 34:

I'm a never-nude.
Anything uttered by Liza Manelli (especially since she playes herself, as well as someone suffering from permanent vertigo).

And also: the point is not that Arrested Development is the greatest show of all time (even though I think it is). The point is that the Simpsons is not, and I'm tired of people assuming that everyone thinks that. Although, I must say I'm suprised with the amount of people that agree with me!

The Simpsons definitely was a great show, but another favorite from that same era might have the greatest number of awesome episodes: Star Trek: the Next Generation.

I just became a hardcore Ari Spool fangirl. Oh, goodness yes.

Arrested Development can't compete in quotes. Chronicling priceless AD moments means writing things like, "Tobias, (dressed as a portly British nanny), attempts an entrance to enchant his daughter," or "Tobias displays the business card for his analyst/therapist practice (TOBIAS FUNKE, ANALRAPIST)."

My favorite AD quote makes no sense out of context: "Maybe I'll put it in her brownie."

Everyone knows all the real Simpsons fans think the show sucks *now.* That doesn't diminish its greatness from when it was great.

Didn't Arrested Development only last three seasons or something? Comparing a show that didn't have the time to start sucking to a show that had two decades to steadily decline is not the most equal contrast.

Greatest Simpsons moment:

Homer ends up at the totally packed She She Lounge after being kicked out of Moe’s and exclaims “there’s something funny about this place – this lesbian bar doesn’t have a fire exit! Enjoy your death-trap ladies.”

As he storms out, a gal asks “what’s her problem?”

Ari, I uh...don't have cable actually.

Just a bunch of DVDs.

Oh so precious DVDs.

DS @ #40:Yeah, I've always wondered how they could have possibly scripted some of those moments, and I've never read anything about it being at all improvisational. The style of writing is so similar to Girls Will Be Girls that I doubt improvisation in the least. I would pay a lot of money for an Arrested Development script.
RICHARD DAY FOREVER!

@39, 34, and anyone referencing STAR TREK!

And the rebutalls involve STAR TREK! Jesus fuck am I wasting my time. Arrested Development great show ... great great show, but to those that want to make it the best show of ALL TIME. Yeah that's pretentious. It shows that you value your opinion way way way higher than all others, ie the ratings.

The Simpsons is extremely quotable, and any feeble attempt to quote arrested development hurts my head. The jokes were rather complex and involved more dialogue and interplay than you guys realize where as simply saying "saxamaphone" or "Matingly, shave those sideburns!" gives me back a very very happy memmory and a very descriptive amusing, touching picture.

The Simpsons isn't even the best Matt Groening show of all time.

Ratings are a pretty poor way to judge how good a show is.

I think that the "greatest show of all time" needs to actually be able to make money and succeed. AD was cancelled. Now, I am not making an argument about the sophistication of the American audience, but come on. It was CANCELLED! That alone takes it out of contention.

#48: I think you mean to talk about "the Most Popular Show of All Time," which the Simpsons is still in contention for.

Hey ... are we all in agreement? Arman Tanzariam? Worst episode ever?

#42: I love that episode, particularly the part where they kick "Homer" in the Mr. Moneybag's costume out of Moe's, and Homer walks by and sees him, exclaiming, "Hey, you look just like me!" and then, "Hey, that dog has a fluffy tail!"

I like that because I totally feel that way every time I see a dog with a fluffy tail.

@41: Yeah, yeah, it only lasted three seasons. It was also often pre-empted for (among others): the World Series, Prison Break, Prison Break reruns, dogs farting in tune, and Are You Smarter than a Redneck. Seriously, Fox shat all over AD, and then claimed that they loved it.

When CW pulled Veronica Mars off the air in March for the Pussycat Dolls show, I turned to my husband and was like "oh, look, they're Prison Break-ing VM. This is the end." Also, the last season was kind of weak with all the mini-arcs.

AD was awesome because it expected its audience to be smart and tune in every week. Raymond or Seinfeld will live on in syndication forever because you can watch episodes in any which order and they're still "funny" (I hate Raymond).

And BTW, my other candidates for Greatest Show Ever include Buffy, 30 Rock, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, the Muppet Show, and Futurama.

A classic has to be more universally accepted than arrested development! A good standard would have to be the Beatles. I'm not a big beatles fan, but it treaded a nice line between genuinely good and least common denominator.

Sorry, but the answer to the "Best TV Show of All Time?" question is "The Wire."

Of course, there is the potential that Season 5 will mess it up.

People please, have you not heard of "brilliant but cancelled?"

Can we say Veronica Mars?!

Oh how I'll miss that show...

arrested development is up there but c'mon, sometimes the best tv is the worst tv; at least whilst baked:
e.g. to wit:
(in no order, whatsoever, particularly in any way etc...)

smallville

buffy/angel

young and the restless/all my chill'rens

the insider...

star trek: TNG, (or sometimes original)

the office(u.k.) U.S.A. version(almost as good)

Twin Peaks

Simpsons

Arrested Development

Jack Horkheimer Star Gazer

Northern Exposure

Teletubbies

Hip Hop Abs infomercial

Red Dwarf

Letterman

Americas Test Kitchen (torture but good)

and maybe South Park

AD died too soon. it might of had a greater funny per episode ratio but great shows have longevity but die a natural death.

nor is the simpsons dying a natural death.

Seinfeld. Now there was a show that was funny, and was pretty funny till the end. Sure, some may dismiss seinfeld as being too plebe but it's one of those shows where the situations of scenes are well known. (its also spawned bad caricature and reference like the soup nazi.)

the problem is that some shows just get better with time like southpark. i remember being in 7th grade and thinking how stupid and slapstick/gross out humor dependent it was. now its quite biting in commentary and still a bit sophomoric.

I'd say seinfeld was best all time because of the quality and quantity.

Judging a show's greatest based on ratings is like judging a movie's greatness on how much money it makes.

I guess summer action flicks are the best movies ever?

Be sure to read my law blog.

50 years from now, AD will be lucky to be a footnote of cultural history. the simpsons, however, are a defining point.

that is all.

and even when i say "that is all," youre all remembering the episode when burns sells the power plant to a cabal of german investors. one of the germans speaks up over the loudspeaker:

"we regret to announce the following lay-offs, which i will read in alphabetical order. simpson, homer. that is all."

ooopsie forgot:

Strangers With Candy

aqua teen

and finally

Home Movies

@60.

No, I wasn't thinking of that at all, actually.

longevity is only 1 of the criteria of a great show. Seinfeld wins that hands down of quality and quantity of episodes. The reason why AR canceled was not enough people understood the premise! As in most people in this post can't dumb themselves down enough to understand the premise of what I'm talking about. I'm not even saying it's a bad show, it's a great show I think it's very funny. Very very very funny. But I'm not the majority of people, and I accept that!

I agree with the central thesis of your post, Mr. Spool, but the fact that you refer to Monty Python's Flying Circus as a show that "produced momentary good times" incontrovertibly betrays a lack of standards.

Flying Circus remains one of the archetypal oeuvres upon which modern comedy relies and, while its content has been repeated, rehashed, and ripped off countless times in the decades since its inaugural broadcast, it retains both its relevance and humor nearly 40 years later. Several rough patches (including the departure of John Cleese) aside, the show is one of the most consistently entertaining and innovative programs throughout its run of 45 episodes.

You, sir, are the Charles Mudede of comedy reviews.

The crux of your argument -- the shit outweighs and dilutes the gold (a point that, purely coincidentally, was the exact one made by the AV Club's Steve Hayden last week [http://www.avclub.com/content/feature/crosstalk_is_it_time_for_the]) -- is simply wrong.

What you're doing is judging the quality of an artist by the caliber of his or her collective work, rather than by the caliber of his or her best work.

Is "Get Off My Cloud" any worse of a song because of "Steel Wheels"? Does the existence of "Bluebeard" make "Cat's Cradle" somehow a worse novel? Is Picasso less of a brilliant artist because of those stupid fucking dove sketches? Was Brando less hot in "Streetcar" because he later became a bloated, pantsless fattie?

The answer to all of those, of course, is no. Artists are and should be judged by their best work, not maligned because their later work doesn't live up to the standards set by their best work. And they're remembered for their best work, not because of a shitty postage stamp with a doodled bird.

By every measure, I'd argue that "The Simpsons" wins, hands down -- total hours of quality entertainment (five or six seasons), total number of jokes, quality of jokes, intellectual caliber of the humor, influence on pop culture/society/television, etc.

I get it now, Spool is upset because AR gets canceled and Simpsons keeps going and going beyond its 15 minutes of fame ...

Mitch Hurwitz, AD's creator, has cited The Simpsons as an inspiration.

I love them both, but I have to go with AD for the reasons already cited. I'm still finding jokes in it. Thanks to youtube, here's a great example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACDlGEnysZY

Seaward ... "C" word ... get it? Heehee!

But most importantly, AD was planned out. When you watch it the second time there are jokes that foreshadow events that take place in the next season, throwaway lines that become insanely funny the second viewing. At the very least it's the most densely-layered show of all time.

Freaks and Geeks
All in the Family

I've never seen Arrested Development

That is all, Mr. Spool

But that's AD's downfall. As a viewer, especially an American viewer with the attention span of a pea and the wit of a beer can, it's just too much to ask for. In order to "get" the show you have to watch more than one episode. Otherwise, it's rather grating. Yes the show is very layered. But the Simpsons, every episode pretty much stood by itself. The fact that show wasn't supposed to change at all? It was difficult to catch up with AD because with the ever changing time slot and the fact that I work a zillion hours, I could never figure out who was the father or his stoned brother or if he was or wasn't in prison. Whether Tobias and what's her face where togethor, or apart. Some of it got rather irriting. The running gags were the best part of the series, but you can't get it until you watch a few episodes.

Now why stepping on rakes for 3 and half minutes is the funniest thing on the planet, I will never know.

I work in an office cubical next to a 35 year old guy that's never gotten laid in his life, has questionable hygiene, no social skills, and seems to only socialize with his parents....but he has a plastic Homer Simpson watch that an electronic voice that says..."Mmmm...burgers." Just saying.

I work in an office cubical next to a 35 year old guy that's never gotten laid in his life, has questionable hygiene, no social skills, and seems to only socialize with his parents....but he has a plastic Homer Simpson watch that has an electronic voice that says..."Mmmm...burgers." Just saying.

Sorry, didn't mean to hit post twice....doh! Get it? Doh? Ha, ha, ha! Ugh.....

I bet he can spell "cubicle" correctly, however.

So far, I've heard nothing that stands up to the brief, shining candle that was Firefly.

"All in the Family" was CRAP. Absolutely unwatchable now. Strident, dull, and thick as four planks. "Maude" was even worse.

Mrs. Fnarf plumps for "The Partridge Family", and I have to give it consideration at least.

Amen to the original post. Never liked that show.

We can all agree that we hate the family guy!

ari -

i know you are a little young for this, but what about SOAP!!! fucking genius.

wikipedia cus im too lazy to type.

and for memorable quotes:

"Women can't be gay. Because if men were gay and women were gay they'd cancel each other out."

@76, eyup...

He didn't even use his alleged debate skills. All he said was, "Bahh, the new episodes suck."

Mary Hartman!

Hey, @79, 64, etc. . . . Ari's not a dude.

And wow, "Get rid of the Seaward" . . . "I'll leave when I'm good and ready." Awesome.

Yep, Simpsons definitely sucked after about 7 seasons. And when we're talking about TV shows, I think it is fair to look at the sum of the work. A TV Series is, well, a *series*, after all.

I'm a Star Trek Next Gen fan, but in fairness, more than the first season was bad. IMHO, it wasn't until the 3rd season, when Ryker got a beard, that it was good. Which also makes it easy to spot a good episode in reruns: check for the beard. If course, any episode that prominently features Wesley Crusher, or a Holodeck excursion gone awry, gets an automatic, big thumbs down from me.

Buffy? Good, except for season 7 where everything got all bad and moody and stayed that way.

Firefly? I don't think it was on the air long enough to say it was good or bad. It seemed off to a decent enough start, though. The movie was brilliant, I thought.

Do I have a candidate for best series ever? Nope. :P

@73-- I may spell incorrectly at times, but I'd rather know the joys of fucking than win spelling bees.

I forgot about Soup ... GENIOUS!

These posts aren't great though.

I'm pretty sure the best tv show ever was Square Pegs.

And AD was good, but the whole Little Britain thing was real lame.

@82: Word to Firefly. I'm still bitter about that one; it really seemed like it could've been great. I mean, a western in space? Hookers with hearts of gold and lots of poorly pronounced Mandarin? What's not to love?! Although a 'verse without Wash is not one I'm sure I'd be interested in watching. Damn that Joss Whedon.

Absolutely Fabulous is better than Arrested Development.

League of Gentlemen is better than AD.

Curb your Enthusiasm is better than AD.

Monty Python's Flying Circus is better than AD.

Seinfeld is better than AD.

The UK Office is better than AD.

And those are just the comedies.

The Wire is better than AD.

Deadwood is better than AD.

Twin Peaks is better than AD.

Prime Suspect is better than AD.

AD might be better than everything else.

Of course this is all subjective. But AD is a little too slight and little to culturally irrelevant to claim the title.

Even the wildly uneven Chappelle's Show is more important and funnier than AD.

But don't get me wrong though. Arrested Development is a very good show with a very satisfying arc.

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