Slog - Comments on A Hell of a Question http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell Responding to my post about how Star Wars broke my belief in a Christian God (I now believe in a Spinozistic God), Brad Steinbacher, a man who knows his galactic stuff, posed this tough question: "If Star Wars is great because it lacks God, then how come in the Empire Strikes Back, which everyone on the planet agrees is the best SW film, Han Solo tells a lowly rebel member: 'Then I'll see you in hell!,' when he sets out in search of Luke Skywalker on Hoth? The existence of Hell -- or the idea of Hell -- means... Copyright 2008 Tue, 24 Jul 2007 14:44:38 -0800 Wed, 25 Jul 2007 06:39:13 -0800 http://www.movabletype.org/?v=3.34 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Comment by fun shaped oh here come the Star Wars dorks and Muedede h8rz

]]> fun shaped http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c768969 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c768969 Arts Tue, 24 Jul 2007 14:53:29 -0800 Comment by Rotten666 Maybe the planet Corellia has a religious system with a concept of hell. There's a lot of different cultures and planets, what suggests that there is one universal dogmatic belief in the sw universe?

Ugh I'm lame.

]]> Rotten666 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c768973 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c768973 Arts Tue, 24 Jul 2007 14:55:52 -0800 Comment by Eric F Or maybe it's just that George Lucas failed to create a coherent world for his movies to exist in. Actually, what seems more likely to me at the moment, given Lucas's legendary inattention to flesh-and-blood actors, is Harrison Ford simply ad-libbed the line and nobody gave it a second thought.

]]> Eric F http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c768988 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c768988 Arts Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:03:13 -0800 Comment by Rotten666 yup. That sounds about right.

]]> Rotten666 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c768992 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c768992 Arts Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:04:10 -0800 Comment by joykiller Any and all the above could be true.

I'd also like to point out that the "lowly rebel member" mentioned is (to the best of my recollection) Cliff Clavin from Cheers.

]]> joykiller http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769008 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769008 Arts Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:15:28 -0800 Comment by maxsolomon why no lohan posts today?

lets discuss the real news.

]]> maxsolomon http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769042 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769042 Arts Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:38:43 -0800 Comment by Will in Seattle Because Lindsay is taking her imprisonment like a lady, not whining about it like Paris did - who even called in mommy and daddy's favors.

That's why it's not news.

But, I should point out many more people believe in Hell than believe in Heaven.

]]> Will in Seattle http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769076 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769076 Arts Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:56:06 -0800 Comment by Gitai Sigh. Hell, a place of punishment in the afterlife, is not a universal concept. Prior to the Babylonian Exile, Jews had no concept of hell. The afterlife was seen as a dark place, a place of sleep, eternal rest. Only after being around all those Zoroastrians and their dualistic ideas did the idea creep into Judaism, where it was inherited by Christianity and Islam.

]]> Gitai http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769083 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769083 Arts Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:00:00 -0800 Comment by Fnarf The existence of hell no more implies the existence of heaven than the existence of Dick Cheney implies the existence of an anti-Dick Cheney somewhere. God exists, and he delights only in our misery.

]]> Fnarf http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769114 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769114 Arts Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:21:29 -0800 Comment by StrangerDanger In case anyone else was wondering...
Spi·no·zism (sp-nzzm)
n.
A monistic approach to philosophy in which all reality is held to consist of one substance, usually termed God or Nature, of which minds and bodies are both attributes.

Wonderful Slog Charles

]]> StrangerDanger http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769115 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769115 Arts Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:21:34 -0800 Comment by Will in Seattle @9 - yes, but if the two could meet, they would cancel each other out.

]]> Will in Seattle http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769123 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769123 Arts Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:25:39 -0800 Comment by Morgan Maybe he was referring to the vast emptiness of space, the absence of Nature and life as hell. To explode into nothingness, to die in space, in what was then understood to be the ultimate void would be hell indeed according to Spinoza. But maybe it was lack of character development on the part of Lucas.

]]> Morgan http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769167 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769167 Arts Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:50:32 -0800 Comment by maxine I agree with Eric F (@3.) I always found the Star Wars films almost unwatchable (especially 1-3) because of the absolutely unbelievable dialogue. George Lucas movies take good actors and make them sound like soap opera stars. Although, Chewbacca's (sp?) lines were always well written.

]]> maxine http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769168 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769168 Arts Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:51:06 -0800 Comment by Dougsf I noticed something even crazier: Is it just me, or all those wacky dress up Star Wars nerds in the picture, like, pretty hot?

]]> Dougsf http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769203 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769203 Arts Tue, 24 Jul 2007 17:27:17 -0800 Comment by ebsur The word "hell" is itself older than Christianity, i.e. the Anglo-Saxons had a concept of hell, as did the Norse, the ancient Romans, etc. The ancient Greeks actually had three concepts of hell (gehenna, tartarus, and the better-known hades), the Chinese have tiyu, etc.

Given the intentional cultural mish-mash that is Star Wars, it is very difficult given the concept of hell in the real world to ascribe any kind of concrete, specifically Christian sense to Han Solo's use of the word "hell."

One of Han Solo's favorite "swear words" is the expression "minion's of Xendor." Perhaps Xendor is something akin to God? I don't know.

]]> ebsur http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769264 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769264 Arts Tue, 24 Jul 2007 18:38:31 -0800 Comment by why? Why must all Leia fans wear that demeaning outfit? The point of the outfit is that Leia is a slave! Why not wear the cool, white Princess garb?

Yes, I'm speaking rhetorically. I know the answer. (Dressing like a slave is more fun and the Princess garb comes with stupid hair.)

]]> why? http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769363 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769363 Arts Tue, 24 Jul 2007 20:35:10 -0800 Comment by Giffy Never has so much time been devoted to something so silly.

Star Wars is at best a nice diversion and at worst a rather poorly made and acted movie. To attribute anything to the random rantings of those unfortunate enough to act in it is to see agency in what might better be explained by happenstance.

]]> Giffy http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769442 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769442 Arts Tue, 24 Jul 2007 22:27:30 -0800 Comment by bitter_hag Hell is unrelenting pain. Spinoza attributed pain to actions that moved a person farther from perfection.

Refusing to join Han Solo was an act of profound inadequacy, and would result in profound pain. Aka, hell.

]]> bitter_hag http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769459 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769459 Arts Tue, 24 Jul 2007 23:03:54 -0800 Comment by Jason Petersen Isomorphisms? What are you some sort of fucking topologist now?

]]> Jason Petersen http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769464 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769464 Arts Tue, 24 Jul 2007 23:17:01 -0800 Comment by johnnie You're all horrendous nerds. And by nerds I mean virgins.

]]> johnnie http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769465 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769465 Arts Tue, 24 Jul 2007 23:21:34 -0800 Comment by Gloria @14: It's not just you. GodDAMN.

]]> Gloria http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769538 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769538 Arts Wed, 25 Jul 2007 03:49:49 -0800 Comment by wtf What's a concept again?

]]> wtf http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769581 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/a_question_of_hell#c769581 Arts Wed, 25 Jul 2007 06:39:13 -0800