Oh come on, Rosie? Please.
How about Rosie O'Donnell? ;-)
And all of the gay guys were the same boring ones we hear from all of the time..YAWN!
dan savage is not a boring gay guy. he's a stud.
gaydies? HEY! i just made that up yesterday! you owe me a dollar.
Portia de Rossi
How 'bout Lesli Wood (Ms. Led, Saeta, etc.)?
a quick glance at the online masthead will reveal that the stranger editorial staff is still dominated by men.
17 dudes vs. 10 chicks in editorial positions. the numbers even out a little if you bring in art & production, with 21 guys vs. 15 gals.
dan got mad the last time i brought this up, and pointed me in the direction of the printed masthead for a more even number. fair enough. but i don't have one to look at right now.
bottom line: nearly every major stranger editorial position is held by a hetero or homo male. i am not saying they are sexist, by any stretch. i know most of these dudes and they are good guys.i am, however, saying that men are overwhelmingly responsible for deciding the content of the paper. it should never be a surprise when it skews in their direction.
Tammy Lynn Michaels. Yes, I know she's pretty much only famous for being commitment ceremonied to Melissa Etheridge, but she already blogs, so I'm sure she had the time.
uh, how about Alison Bechdel, cartoonist and social commentator extraordinaire,
How about even an acknowledgment of transgendered people? Except for the excellent snippet about gay people oppressing transgendered people.
Can gender get its own issue? Even uncles got one.
What about Rita Mae Brown? Does she ever write about GBLT issues?
Gaydies! Gaydies! Gaydies! I literally can't stop saying it. Thanks, Adrian!
maybe because the gay guys have had it "rougher" (pun intended) than gay gals over the years. society still holds the double standard of lipstick lesbians as hot and gay guys as gross.
every "gay bashing" i hear about is a guy getting beat up, not so much the women. perhaps the males are better able to articulate what the past has meant in the gay rights movement--similar to why, when talking about the civil rights movement, you don't go looking for a white person...
or it could be that all the women writers were occupied and declined to participate.
Um, fun game and all... but ECB, what's the Stranger's explanation for the lack?
@7 interesting... i understand that these things can happen though not intentional sexism (just perhaps subtle sexism)... but then wouldn't it be their obligation to make sure they didn't just present the male view?
Or it could be that women weren't thought of, sought out or included. I find that when women's voices aren't heard it's rarely because we have nothing to say.
I say Amen to this post (and I say this as a dyke who really enjoyed reading the issue even while noting that homo history apparently predominately involved men).
In addition to women, trans people and bi folk were also not really represented.
My suggestions for writers:
Jennifer Baumgardner, Kate Bornstein, Judith Butler, Patrick Califia, Lillian Faderman, Leslie Feinberg, Jamison Green, Loraine Hutchins, Mara Keisling, Joan Nestle, Minnie Bruce Pratt, Matt Bernstein Sycamore (aka Mattilda), Carol Queen, Urvashi Vaid
Sarah Schulman, Felicia Luna Lemus and Eileen Myles are all amazing queer writers. I can think of dozens of lesbian/queer women writers out there that can articulate the gay rights movement as well as men, #13. And i'm not even going to get involved with your statement that you never hear of women being gay bashed. I'm not sure how you can compare queer women to white people regarding civil rights, are you saying that we have nothing to fight for and have had no shape on gay history? Maybe you should look up the Daughters of Bilitis or the Lesbian Herstory Archives.
We also didn't see many non-white folks... to name a few:
Keith Boykin, E. Lynn Harris, James Earl Hardy, B.D. Wong, Kenji Yoshino, George Takei, Daniel T. Contreras, and Johnny Diaz.
ECB - I heart you! I made this same point on Eli's post yesterday.
"Eli, Your list of "great gay writers" (do I count 27) has hardly any chicks (do I count 4). What's up with that?
Posted by WhinyDyke | June 20, 2007 5:06 PM"
How about hot lesbian sex positive political activist Miss Indigo Blue a.k.a Amelia Ross-Gilson
How about the lesbians owners of Toys in Babeland (an awesome now national store that started here in Seattle)
and btw ddv Post #13, i think the statistics actually show that there is much more violence against lesbian women than men (just like in society as a whole there is more violence against women)
The writer from the L word.
ECB my sister, thanks for standing up for the Lesbo's!
People must like white gay guys best!
Where are the free ads for the Dyke March - SGN donated a ton of them, and 500.00 cash - too really queer for the guys?
And yes, I work at the SGN, old fashioned lezzie.
Ill tell you why; because minorities within minorities are far more annoying and bigger attention whores.
also, the obligation of the stranger staff isnt to parade around homos of all stripes and dots. would a lesbian dominated paper feel compelled to write about gay men in an issue about homo stories from the hood? Why is it the obligation of the editorial staff to play down to a Ultra PC Bullshit level?
finally the idea that the paper is "dominated" by men makes it seem like there is 2 women for every 10 men. you know just as well as i do, its almost 63% men on the editorial staff. THATS TOTAL DOMINATION!
There are at least ten not on your list who live in Seattle and are internationally famous.
But thanks for mentioning some, ECB.
Now, if you could just add some of our trangender and bi people, you would be part way to a state of grace.
Bellevue Ave: "Female" is not a minority within a minority. Women make more than half the population. They're hardly "stripes and dots."
oh, and let's add Tara from SIFF! My fave!
Vile patriarchs! THEY IN UR PAPER, STEALIN UR STORIEZ!
And, technically, Seattle is more known worldwide as having lesbians far more than it's known for having gay guys.
So, the lack is not just bad form, it's atrocious.
Thanks for noting it, ECB!
I was thinking more along the lines of the tg and bi. but honestly how many lesbians are at the stranger?
most of the stranger editorial staff IS women. if pride teaches us anything, it's that a vagina doesn't necessarily make a female.
Oh Christ, Bellevue Ave, do you really have to throw out some tired old diatribe against political correctness? Call it whatever you want to, but the point is we live in a society with a wide variety of cultural differences and experiences. Of course The Stranger isn't "obligated" to publish anything, but it would've made the piece more interesting to acknowledge that there are stripes and dots out there other than white gay guys and to include their voices as well.
31: I don't know if the lesbian quota has been refilled since I left.
I pitched an "all lesbian issue" at a queer issue brainstorm session a few years ago, to make up for the annual imbalance and ward off future criticism—in one dykey swoop! It didn't happen.
And then I left. To work at a paper in Portland where my gayness doesn't really count. Lesbians just can't win?
I'm sick of McDonalds serving the same goddamn thing. I like ethnic food as well, ya know! We live in a society with a wide variety of cultural differences and experiences! Why am I limited to this fast-food American crap?
Oh wait! I'm not! I can go somewhere else if I don't want what they are serving (or writing)! AMAZINGZORZ!!1!
Though more known for radio and TV talk, Dr Rachel Maddow. Damned witty and brilliant.
That's a good question, Bellvue Ave. How many are there?
For local queer women, how about Sarah Luthens? Marsha Botzer? Tara Hardy? The Rad Dyke Plumber? Shannon Thomas? Mo Malkin? Audrey Haberman? Louise Chernin? The Von Foxies? Beth Reis (or any of the other women who challenged the courts in the marriage case)?
The Stranger hates queer women.
so you're saying the entire staff had to go out of their way to make lesbians et al more represented despite not being part of the group and not knowing as much as the slog posters?
If they're gonna call me a Dumb Dyke on their cover they do, yeah. Don't use inflammatory headlines that are open to you because as a gay-run paper you're an insider, if voices like mine are only tokens. Stick to the Stupid Faggot cover, please.
I hate both of those words! I hate the covers..both of them! Hate 'em hate 'em hate 'em.
@30 We're just known as queer central in general. We're the second gayest city per capita in the US, and from what I've seen, the city with the most well integrated gay community.
But the group that really strikes me as huge in Seattle, well beyond any other city in the US is the FTMs. Seriously, about a quarter of the dykes I went to college with are now fellow faggots, and I've been exposed to more imagery of Buck Angel that any faggot can be expected to endure. There's even an annual FTM convention here. I know this, because the three tranny boys I've worked out with at my dojo always come back from that weekend glowing.
thats a good point bitch, but then there would be the people who would complain about lack of a cover.
cant please everyone.
I did not know that the Stranger was a paper for gay men (re:comments from Bellevue Ave). I am a Stranger reader and I would like to read more great gay women authors writing about Gay Pride. I think when you have 27 authors and only 4 are women you are missing out on hearing some pretty cool stuff. I mean Michelangelo Signorile, Andrew Sullivan, Larry Kramer, Ed Murray -- that's pretty tired.
Look at all the lesbians running the City. Half of the department heads at the City of Seattle are lesbians. Maybe they could have done a collective story about how much the lesbians kick ass in city hall. I think as a reader I can suggest that I would like to see more female writers.
@41 - word!
I enjoyed the issue but yeah, I'd love to hear more from the women and transpeople. There's no reason it can't be done in the future. I agree that Kate Bornstein is great; don't forget Jenny Boylan too!
EILEEN MYLES fer the love of God is a kick ass writer and poet! Go out and get you some Myles right now. She is the new generation of the New York poets. Art critic for Art in America. Get, get, get!
Maybe you should look up the Daughters of Bilitis or the Lesbian Herstory Archives.
I used to refer to DOB as Daughters of Bursitis because the members were so old school that their writing was inhibited and just plain bad. The only old school lesbos with killer writing chops is Jane Rule and Jill Johnston. But Rule moved to Canada and Johnston is (still sleeping with every woman that walks down the street?). Maybe she has bursitis.
ECB-- Wow, if only you'd had some way to find out about this ahead of time. Then you could've tried to get a meeting with the editors of the Stranger and discussed your concerns with them.
Except, hold on-- you work at the fucking Stranger. You have a chance to find out what the issue will look like before it's put together and you see the editors every freaking day. If the gender balance of the issue was a problem for you why didn't you do something about it before the thing went to press instead of leaving it to a bunch of dudes and complaining about it after the fact?
REBECCA BROWN you frackers!! Almost forgot her. She lives in Washington State too! How could you not hunt her down and pin her inside your Queer Issue? Fave books: Gifts of the Body and Annie Oakley's Girl. She's got mad chops.
you neglected to mention hillary clinton.
Colonel Greta Cammermeyer, resident of Whidbey Island.
I agree WhinyDyke about the tired gay male writers that are 'featured' in this issues. Andrew Sullivan is the tiredest of them all!
Ya, I'll be waiting to hear someone complain about not being called a dumb dyke.
You have to wonder what the point of the two covers was in the first place. Inclusion? Making people feel more acutely, personally offended than if it said, "Stupid Queer" or "Dumb Queer"?
All in all, I think it's cool to have a history lesson in the NEWspaper, and I agree with Eli's take on how queer history isn't passed down in the same way other histories are. But while we're on the subject of hidden histories, let's pay attention to women's queer history, too. AND let them tell it.
There is so much changing in the lesbian community. The lesbian voice has changed. Gen X and Gen Next (or whatever) lesbians are very different from the stonewall / 1970's feminist lesbians -- much more sex positive, much more diverse and nonconforming to old school traditional lesbian 'roles', etc. I mean, I am not articulating it very well which is why it would be cool to have some other more articulate dykes write something about it.
Gay issues that deserve a lesbian voice? Gay marriage and gay families. Lesbian couples are still the predominate demographic in the gay community having and raising kids. And, according to the dude from the Oregon pro marriage group that had their little table set up at City Hall (during the short window when gays were allowed to marry) lesbians were actually the overwhlmingly predominate demographic taking advantage of the marriage opportunity. So, maybe their is a valuable voice.
ooh ooh, me! represent!
whiny, its not for gay men, but cmon, you shouldnt be shocked and outraged by the fact that it covers a lot of gay male stuff at the exclusion of other things.
i honestly dont believe it was a concious effort to leave lesbians out, and as such they shouldnt be crucified for it. the dumb dyke thing was definitely an absent minded attempt at inclusion that obviously failed for that demographic.
More gaydies please. We love gaydies.
Is Erica the only lesbian working at the Stranger? That sucks because she's straight. But we would still adopt her as a mascot. I think she could be the Grand Marshall at the Dyke March and maybe be a guest DJ at Girl4Girl.
I would totally vote for ECB as the Dyke March Grand Marshall! Let's do it.
Where is the Girl4Girl party this year and who is Dj'ing (I mean besides Erica appareantly)?
Inga Muscio who lives in San Francisco but spends a lot of time in Portland. She rocks!
Um, Barbara Gittings, for just one more example? You know, the lesbian activist who convinced gay psychiatrist "Dr. H Anonymous" to testify before the APA about the damage the pathologizing of homosexuality did to good, healthy homos? You know, the action which was pivitol in the APA's removing homosexuality as a disorder from the DSM-II? Barbara Gittings, who passed away in February, was a mother of our movement.
I've read all these comments, and I'm just so deeply angry. Sure the folks who put the piece together are nice people. Sure they didn't mean any harm. Sure they're nice (mostly) guys. But that doesn't mean that the near invisibility of women in the piece that resulted isn't blantant f*cking sexism.
Nice people with privlege have the responsibility to think about what they're doing. Otherwise that fancy education was wasted. Women, stop hedging. (Dykes, especially, there is no need - wtf?!) I'm calling it like I see it: dykes, trans, bis relegated to the fringe is not acceptable. Sexism. Period.
Cowgirl # 63 - There was a Girl4Girl event at Nuemos last weekend. This weekend I think there are a whole bunch of events both indoor and outdoor around Pride Weekend. Check it out http://www.girl4girlseattle.com/events.asp
There will be dancing, drinking, nudity, go-go girls, burlesque (including the aforementioned Miss Indigo Blue and others)drag kings, etc. Lots and lots of girly fun.
Girls, girls, girls. I love girls! More girls! Funny girls, sexy girls, irreverant girls, smart girls, powerful girls, single girls, married (civil unioned) girls. More gay girls.
In the words new of Stranger Mascot Chris Crocker .."Bitch Paleese"!
The thing is the boys don't know much about the girls in this town. But I am guessing that Eli and Dan have at least a few girls, gaydies, dykes, lesbians, women who sleep with other women friends out there that they could ask for help next time.
How about GirlBar Go-Go's Leilani and Vanessa!
I haven't read all 70 comments, but if it hasn't been mentioned, Kaley Davis, if I have the right Kaley, is transgendered.
blatant sexism? so being accidentally negligent is now blatant sexism? im glad most lesbians dont jump to conclusions that quickly and play the sexism card.
dan savage and co plotted to leave lesbians out? really? Blatantly? just because you felt the left out part more than others doesnt mean it was blatant.
Ok, I read it and it's pretty much all gay men + AIDS. Obviously huge, but what were the gaydies doing? Nothing? I doubt it.
...oh, and she's one of the 27 writers.
#58: That's the point. Discrimination rarely happens on purpose. It happens when perfectly nice people who don't think about people beyond themselves. And when they do, they shrug and say "Do you know any [women, people of color, young people, etc] for this spot? No? Okay, so we'll just go with really great people that we know."
This is why Boards don't have diversity because all the Board members are doing the recruiting among their own peer group/comfort zone and honestly don't know how to reach beyond it.
What Erica has done here is show that it's actually pretty easy to reach beyond your peer group for quality folks for key positions if you just do a little asking around. Way to go, ECB!
Thanks Erica for the shout out to the gal!
Are the populations of gay men and lesbians equal in this country? I thought that there were something like twice as many gay men.
the issue i have is dykes reinforcing the stereotypical angry dyke persona for a mistake.
sure it sucks to be marginalized but its no reason to so anything beyond call someone out and ask for better.
@61 - I think you should make Erica an honorary Dyke for outing the Stranger male-only listings in the first place.
And the Stranger owes a big Apology cover to all the Lesbians and Bi/TG it "skipped".
Ain't no excuses for that.
Just think of it as your Grey's Anatomy wake up moment.
@76 - we're talking Seattle, not the country as a whole. Seattle is like #2 nationwide for lesbians, but maybe #5 or #6 for gay guys.
So, if anything, it should have been the other way around.
Two very weird things--the lack of coverage, and you not saying anything until now.
However, I will also point out that at 9:14pm on the same day as your post, I've gotten the names of writers that people here on Slog seem pretty excited about. I'm sorry to admit I'm new to them--but I won't be for much longer.
"Gaydies' (not sure if that one will grow on me or not but i'll try it) are the other 1/2 of the gay community. We DID get our very own cover (thanks) but I have to agree that there's lots of relevant stories to be told by the gaydies. I think WhinyDyke (#56) surely pointed to a couple of story ideas that Stranger readers might like to hear. But there are probably many good, relevant, entertaining stories to be told by gaydies.
Thanks for your consderation.
#78 We will make Erica an honorary Dyke if she shows up at Girl4Girl or the Dyke March and makes out with at least one hot chick. That along with her advocacy for the gals with the Stranger Boys will surely give her the necessary street cred.
Speaking of girls kissing, I need to get the fuck out of here and go start drinking, dancing and kissing me some sexy girls...all us girls do! It's the friday before pride so get out there gals!!! Come on girls, put down your gardening shears, get a babysitter for your lesbian-mom lovin' babies, stop worrying about city politics for a minute and come out a party and kiss your hottie girlfriend/wife/fuck buddy/ random encounter in the streets. Stop being so damn invisible girls.
#77: That's exactly what people are doing. When one is marginalized, are they supposed to be all polite about it? That doesn't make sense.
By the way, it's really sterotypical for men to go crazy when women--gay or straight--stand up for themselves without apology or sugarcoating.
Don't dish it out if you can't take it, gentlemen.
inga muscio left san franscisco for portland years ago and just recently left portland to live here..and the next time i see her i'll tell her you was thinking about her
I love GIRLS!
That's interesting about Seattle's different rankings for gay men vs. lesbians, I hadn't heard. I'm not familiar with all of the writers contributing to this issue, but aren't at least some of the gay men from places other than Seattle, though?
"So, if anything, it should have been the other way around."
Not necessarily. If there are a lot more gay men than lesbians nationwide, then gay men could still outnumber them in Seattle in spite of their respective rankings.
Yo, Bison, could you cite your source? That doesn't seem to make sense. How could there be more gay men than women?
I'm a straight girl with a big gay boy kink and even I thought it was total crap. I mean seriously, couldn't they even have given the girls the years they didn't care about? A breakthrough year for Bears? Lame.
You know, I can't imagine why a dyke would have cause to be angry. Let me practice my demure dyke persona:
Shove it, Bellevue. As if superior, sharp-tongued, critical gay men aren't a stereotype, and as if I couldn't find evidence to support that stereotype in these environs. As if the dominant culture wondering why those angry fill-in-the-blanks get their panties in a bunch when we don't include them isn't a stereotype. Next you'll be calling women who don't agree with you shrill, or hysterical. Maybe I wouldn't talk so much with a cock in my mouth?
There. You are so right about not reinforcing stereotypes. I feel much less angry now that I know how to act.
Ladies, you have to take what you want in this world, not whine about how you didn't get it after the fact. Feminists used to understand that.
ECB, if this was such a concern, why did you wait until the issue was out to cause a stink? Surely, as a staff member, you would have an inkling of the content of what is the biggest issue of the year.
I think Tears For Fears said it best: Everyone wants to rule the world.
Not sure if they were lesbians though....
@65: "Um, Barbara Gittings, for just one more example?... Barbara Gittings, who passed away in February, was a mother of our movement."
Did you just suggest a dead woman as a perfect writer for the queer issue?
I don't think ECB ever reads the comments to her threads - I would be very curious indeed to know if she knew about this ahead of time, whether she raised it to the Editors, etc. If not, what's the point of this? If so, why not say so in the first place?
What about Jesse Jane. I have seen her go both ways. What does she have to say?
@ 94: No, I didn't know about the content or authors of the issue.
#21 -- that writer from "The L Word" -- you mean Ariel Schrag?
Why doesn't anyone mention Jackie Warner (of Bravo's "Workout")? She's amazing.
Oh, and ECB can scream all she wants; she's a reporter, not an editor and doesn't have decision-making power. Only the editors, who happen to be men, have final say.
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