Slog - Comments on Viaduct Love http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love After the great age of Roman building, the art of the viaduct and aqueduct lay fallow for many centuries, until the Industrial Revolution in Great Britain, when the burgeoning network of canals and railways needed ways to to get around each other. The most wonderful of these structures was the Pontcysyllte Aqueduct, in Wales, built by the genius Thomas Telford in 1795. This carried the water of the Llangollen or Ellesmere Canal in a cast iron channel over the River Dee. Imagine looking up from a boat on the river in the eighteenth century and seeing the mast of a... Copyright 2008 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:21:55 -0800 Mon, 18 Jun 2007 13:30:07 -0800 http://www.movabletype.org/?v=3.34 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Comment by Original Andrew Ooooohhh, it's on ECB!

]]> Original Andrew http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738669 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738669 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:29:22 -0800 Comment by pox So much for getting that full-time Slogging job.

]]> pox http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738671 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738671 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:29:38 -0800 Comment by hurrrk THIS ONE WAS FUNNIER (I DIDN'T REALLY READ IT)

]]> hurrrk http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738672 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738672 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:30:39 -0800 Comment by grg Charles, stop impersonating Fnarf.

]]> grg http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738674 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738674 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:31:47 -0800 Comment by Gomez Cheeky, though I was expecting a lampoon of ECB.

]]> Gomez http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738682 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738682 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:41:40 -0800 Comment by David Schmader Bravo!

]]> David Schmader http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738683 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738683 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:41:46 -0800 Comment by cressona grg: Charles, stop impersonating Fnarf.

Heh.

Now, to return to developments that are relevant to the 21st century... Here's an item from the front page of today's New York Times:
City Traffic Pricing Wins U.S. and Spitzer’s Favor

]]> cressona http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738684 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738684 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:42:14 -0800 Comment by Dan Savage Not in the least big convincing, Fnarf.

]]> Dan Savage http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738687 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738687 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:44:16 -0800 Comment by ho' know I'm totally loving this - taking the shit out of Charles

Pox is right though, been nice knowing ya'

tee hee.

]]> ho' know http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738689 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738689 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:46:51 -0800 Comment by EXTC All this post proves is that it's possible to take a pretty picture of an ugly structure.

]]> EXTC http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738691 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738691 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:47:49 -0800 Comment by Will in Seattle Dang, you made me miss Vancouver!

]]> Will in Seattle http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738697 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738697 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:51:51 -0800 Comment by ivan Gig 'em, Fnarf. Good on ya!

]]> ivan http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738699 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738699 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:53:01 -0800 Comment by Madashell All the money and energy around this issue, and all the waxing poetic about aesthetics. The fact is, you can take value of aesthetics only to a certain point. Utility sometimes trumps beauty. Otherwise we'd be working towards lining Harbor Island with boulevards and trees as well.

I'd be willing to bet that after the millions are spent by the city council to study the surface-transit option, they will come back to the obvious: the viaduct needs to be replaced. AND we need more mass transit.

]]> Madashell http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738707 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738707 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:59:01 -0800 Comment by ECB The distinguishing factor in most of your examples of viaducts is that they are in fact bridges over bodies of water, making them necessary if people are to traverse the body of water. The Alaskan Way Viaduct, as it could be replaced by a conventional surface-level roadway and still serve the same function, is unnecessary. In addition, most of your examples are in fact stone or steel, not concrete.

]]> ECB http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738709 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738709 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 13:01:43 -0800 Comment by Lloyd Clydesdale Say it with pride, Fnarf! If you want to walk, walk down the street. Leave the Viaduct up. Cars aren't the problem, it's the emissions. America awaits it's next engineering genius with sweaty brow and trembling wallet.

Fnarf, are you taking your shot at a hundo in the comments?

]]> Lloyd Clydesdale http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738717 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738717 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 13:10:06 -0800 Comment by gfish The contrast just shows all the more clearly how truly ugly our viaduct is.

But fuck aesthetics. The viaduct could be the most beautiful piece of civil engineering from the last 50 years and I'd still want to get rid of it. Building more capacity increases demand. Reducing capacity reduces demand. It's really, really simple.

]]> gfish http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738720 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738720 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 13:13:38 -0800 Comment by NapoleonXIV The truly wonderful thing about the Viaduct is that its form is not despoiled by landscaping.

]]> NapoleonXIV http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738726 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738726 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 13:18:41 -0800 Comment by Travis I'm bored.

]]> Travis http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738735 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738735 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 13:22:35 -0800 Comment by Big Sven "Building more capacity increases demand. Reducing capacity reduces demand."

I'm with you on the first part. Explain to me again how the second part works? Are we going to tear down all the single family homes in Queen Anne and Magnolia and build high rises to provide room for all folks from Bellevue, Kent, and Edmonds that are going to be flocking into town? Just curious.

]]> Big Sven http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738736 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738736 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 13:22:49 -0800 Comment by Travis I'm bored.

]]> Travis http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738737 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738737 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 13:22:51 -0800 Comment by hunh? I love it! Viva le viaduct!

]]> hunh? http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738748 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738748 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 13:27:05 -0800 Comment by Fnarf I'll never make a hundred, Lloyd, unless I attack the fucking cripples.

]]> Fnarf http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738751 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738751 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 13:28:53 -0800 Comment by gfish 19: Sure, or we'll improve transit and increase density in other parts of the area. Or some of both.

Suburbs as we know them were unthinkable before the massive social engineering project that is the American highway system. We spent 50 years encouraging their growth, and now we need to start encouraging their abandonment. Nothing happens overnight, but our cities are capable of amazing change when presented with the right incentives. The very existence of this problem in the first place shows that.

]]> gfish http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738754 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738754 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 13:30:20 -0800 Comment by where's waldo? The RTID just approved a Pierce Co. plan that INCLUDES the cross-base highway:

http://www.thenewstribune.com/front/topstories/story/81780.html

Double-fuck 'em.

]]> where's waldo? http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738765 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738765 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 13:36:46 -0800 Comment by Orphan Road "It also provides anyone with a car the spectacular Puget Sound views that would otherwise belong only to those in expensive downtown condominiums."

Just remember kids: a new viaduct will have taller, solid-concrete walls on either side to comply with new safety regs. You won't have a view from your car.

]]> Orphan Road http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738779 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738779 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 13:46:42 -0800 Comment by Mr. X @23,

Edmonds is now a suburb, and is almost as old as Seattle. Ditto lots of other older smaller cities throughout the region.

@25

Spare us the discredited Tim Ceis talking points.

Well put, FNARF, well put. ECB's got nuthin!

]]> Mr. X http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738823 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738823 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 14:21:10 -0800 Comment by Sean Fnarf, by juxtaposing images of those other beautiful bridges with our own charmless pile of concrete, you've made a pretty strong case for tearing that shit down.

]]> Sean http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738827 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738827 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 14:23:12 -0800 Comment by Lloyd Clydesdale Sean, I find the effectiveness of it quite charming indeed.

]]> Lloyd Clydesdale http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738871 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738871 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 14:47:37 -0800 Comment by Jensen Interceptor ECB Wrote:
"The Alaskan Way Viaduct, as it could be replaced by a conventional surface-level roadway and still serve the same function, is unnecessary."

That is the fundamental problem with
the surface transit proposal. Moving the function of the Viaduct to the surface on Alaska Way is a profoundly
shallow and poor use of the limited land mass in the corridor. This is a land use issue and not road building one. Building a surface highway is
not a cure. Bridge It!

--- Jensen


]]> Jensen Interceptor http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738903 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738903 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 15:05:23 -0800 Comment by maxsolomon catastrophic earthquake, save us from ourselves.

]]> maxsolomon http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738935 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c738935 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 15:22:40 -0800 Comment by elrider "In fact" ECB, I count only 4 of the 6 viaducts displayed by Fnarf as going over natural bodies of water. One of the remaining was used to convey water, not people, over a stream.

Your usual loose application of facts.

Go Fnarf!

]]> elrider http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c739065 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c739065 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 16:40:33 -0800 Comment by Jay Well, it it conveys water it's an aqueduct. I'm not exactly sure Fnarf knows the differences, mostly radical, between the displayed structures either. The function and aesthetic analogy doesn't hold up much, given the viaduct is neither beautifully ornamental nor a real engineering achievement. The Bonneville dam is an engineering achievement, the viaduct is an ugly elevated road.

If Fnarf seriously believes the Seattle viaduct is beautiful, he probably thinks parking lots and 7-11s are beautiful too.

]]> Jay http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c739154 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c739154 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 18:07:03 -0800 Comment by Jay Parking lots are just as functional. And some of them are even elevated!

]]> Jay http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c739155 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c739155 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 18:08:32 -0800 Comment by Jay note: the aqueduct comment was not directed at Fnarf but at Erica. There should have been a break there.

]]> Jay http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c739159 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c739159 Arts Fri, 08 Jun 2007 18:25:20 -0800 Comment by Bill MSN I NIIPET
MSN

]]> Bill http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c741514 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c741514 Arts Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:11:13 -0800 Comment by Bill MSN I NIIPET
MSN

]]> Bill http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c741516 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c741516 Arts Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:11:34 -0800 Comment by awerjpim braqgvjml wdcqnlgxv lrbup ckonge zvsr uegkaz ydpvrltc gnrlhju

]]> awerjpim braqgvjml http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c743657 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c743657 Arts Thu, 14 Jun 2007 21:43:46 -0800 Comment by pmvyn vwjhdst ufzb fsmpnvzkg ybosmdnr hnrgk asfht hujzf siprynxtc http://www.yvatg.aekhuvbln.com

]]> pmvyn vwjhdst http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c743658 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c743658 Arts Thu, 14 Jun 2007 21:45:01 -0800 Comment by AAS y3WqnW Hey, there is what you need.

]]> AAS http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c744840 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c744840 Arts Sat, 16 Jun 2007 17:59:39 -0800 Comment by AAS y3WqnW Hey, there is what you need.

]]> AAS http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c744842 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c744842 Arts Sat, 16 Jun 2007 17:59:46 -0800 Comment by AAS y3WqnW Hey, there is what you need.

]]> AAS http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c744843 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c744843 Arts Sat, 16 Jun 2007 17:59:51 -0800 Comment by Jim Carner very cool site

]]> Jim Carner http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c745800 http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/06/viaduct_love#c745800 Arts Mon, 18 Jun 2007 13:30:07 -0800