Comments on The Morning News

The verdict is in.

I was at both Queer Fest and the Pride Parade. No way in hell was there 30,000 people at Queerfest. More like maybe 3,000 at the parade and fest. And likewise, no way was there 200,000 at Pride. The turnout for the Pride Parade was for sure several times that for Queer Fest, but 200,000 is stretching. Maybe 10,000 at Seattle Center, and 30,000 tops at the Parade. The exaggeration is amazing.

"Meanwhile in Baghdad: Insurgents manage to blow up “heavily secured” hotel, killing 12. Dozens more die in additional attacks across the Iraqi capitol." WOW! And over 2,000,000 Iraqis have fled the country. How did this happen, you ask? Well, you see back in 2002 Bush and Cheney started lying to the country about all these reasons to make war on Iraq. Columnists like Dan Savage enthusiastically cheered on the Bushies and urged America to support the war. Of course none of these columnists would have to fight in the war.So troday hundreds of billions of dollars have been pissed away, tens of thousands of people have been killed, more than that are maimed for life, and America is hated around the world. When you read about the war, don't forget good old Dan's role in bringing this about. He makes a witty quip every now and then about that role, but he really doesn't give a shit.

You know, I consider myself to be quite educated, but for the life of me I can't figure out the logic used to determine the parade attendance... this year and last year's... it all seems a little bit high.

I like to think and hope the parade was a sucess (it is such an asset for the city) and if the numbers could be explained... well I would retract my call of *ahem* bullshit... but 100k and now 200K?

With the city there are ~580k in population... so ~35% of the city went downtown yesterday? cool. If you say so, but I don't buy it. Seems inflated by a factor of 10, given first hand experience, unless they are counting includes passive attendees (folks who would have been downtown anyways, such as the run-of-the-mill tourists, shoppers, and condo dwellers, ferry traffic, etc.).

I agree on the parade attendance. That number is WAY too high. Yeah there were a lot of people but 200,000??? I think not.

The way the estimate parade attendance is by statistical sampling of various points along the parade route. If they happen to pick an area with a really high concentration of people (Say Westlake Center) and only use that sample then you would have an overly stated number. This is probably what they did and like they say "take statistics with a grain of salt". I think that around 100,000 is more accurate a number. But then I did not do any statistical sampling so without facts of any sort I am just pulling the 100,000 out of my ass.

Re: the Fosse.

Damn.

Now I'm gonna walk like that all day.

@ 3: Dude, lots of people bought into the bullshit. I wasn't one of them, but two of my heros were (Dan & Howard Stern). Both have long since realized they were wrong, and have publicly acknowledged they were wrong. Sure, it sucks to look back and see all the cheerleaders ranting & raving about "imminent threats," but give 'em a break. One was a newspaper editor & the other The King of All Media. Neither had votes.

If you wanna be pissed at someone, be pissed at the dumbshits in Congress that voted to authorize this mess. They are the ones who shoulda known better.

The only sad thing about Pride this weekend was that it was so cold. I saw the hotties taking their shirts off for photos and then immediately putting them back on. What a fucking bummer.

Thanks for the rad Fosse to brighten our Monday : )

Didn't make y'alls Pride Parade this year but down in DC it takes about 200,000 to fill the whole Mall.

Drag queens count double.

Mmmm...daddies.

Who won The Stranger prize for best float?

My kids' favorite was the Bears in the Bath. When it went by, my 2 year old son exclaimed "Those daddies are having a bubble bath!" He currently refers to all men as "daddies", but it was still funny to hear him say that.

Mike in MO--where's this public acknowledgment you're talking about? What, exactly, was it an acknowledgment of? Because if this exists, I'd really like to see it.

Bear in mind, Dan more than just supported the war--he basically told everyone who opposed it to shut the fuck up. And we're at, what now, 3500+ dead soldiers?

More than 800 of them have lost an arm, a leg, fingers or toes. More than 100 are blind. Dozens need tubes and machines to keep them alive. Hundreds are disfigured by burns, and thousands have brain injuries and mangled minds.

These are America's war wounded, a toll that has received less attention than the 3,500 troops killed in Iraq. Depending on how you count them, they number between 35,000 and 53,000.

Over 3500 dead and in one hospital: More than 800 of them have lost an arm, a leg, fingers or toes. More than 100 are blind. Dozens need tubes and machines to keep them alive. Hundreds are disfigured by burns, and thousands have brain injuries and mangled minds.

These are America's war wounded, a toll that has received less attention than the 3,500 troops killed in Iraq. Depending on how you count them, they number between 35,000 and 53,000.

Boomer: Fortunately, I have better things to do than to comb Slog archives for proof that Dan has since relized how wrong he was. Just because I won't provide links doesn't mean these don't exist...

On a lighter note, myspace v. facebook! I call for a death match. Let the greasers and the soc's battle it out until we finally are able to determine which has the right to do the internet mating dance!

No, Facebook would win. Just ask my Seminar Junkies group.

Boomer in NYC and various haters,

Mike in MO is correct: Dan has answered these challenges to his initial support of the Iraq War many, many times. Please use the search engine of your choice to verify. You might try searching under “DAMF” (Department of All My Fault), Iraq War, etc.

At any rate, he has the maturity, decency and courage to admit he was wrong, unlike 99% of the war’s foaming at the mouth supporters and professional reality denialists. Save your bile for the dead-enders in DC who still support the war and are hopefully in their final throes.

#7 Mike in MO. Savage and Stern are your heroes. What about Paris and Britney? Are you a misogynist? Actually the brave liberal hawk Dan Savage has never admitted he was wrong about supporting the war. He HAS complained that Bush screwed it up.
Your heroes, Mike in MO, are guys who simply like to take positions contrary to what people would likely expect them to take. And hey if some people have to die and be tortured and maimed-that's show business!

A selective sampling and an extrapolation of the sample to cover the geographic region the parade was conducted over would seem to be a likely statistical tool. But that doesn’t factor out the folks who were downtown for reasons non-Pride Parade related. It’s not accurate to say that folks on 5th ave or 3rd ave (or however far the statistical borders extended), who were downtown for reasons non-Pride Parade related actually were in “attendance”. Unless of course, it is ethical for parades to simply say that such and such number (due to people simply being on the street for the fact that it is a Sunday afternoon in Downtown Seattle in June and not there for the Pride event) is what the attendance number is. Anyone who happens to go, well, those are just "numbers on top". I don't think there would be an unethical use of statistic gathering, but then I am also not so sure the math would hold up to the certainty of other evidence.

But it sure is nice to think that attendance doubled from last year… why at this rate, in two more parade cycles more people will attend Pride then actually live in the city!! Hoo Rah for The Message Of The Cause!!

This parade, according to the statistic, had significantly more people then either Safeco or Qwest Fields combined can hold. Safeco holds ~50k ppl and Qwest Field holds about ~70k ppl. Those fields are rarely at capacity, for argument’s sake. For the sake of the argument, each field will only get half full for any given event. So, on the mostly average, mild days of game event attendance, that is ~25k-~35k ppl coming into the city that would normally not be coming into the city. THE TRAFFIC those folks cause show-up in other, non-event statistics... such as the traffic report and traffic travel times. Oh hell, even these folks… http://www.seattlecenter.com/images/media/pdf/
SeattleCenterEconomicImpactAssessment.pdf estimate bumbershoot attendance being 200k ppl in 2006. And those attendees were spread out over several days… the impact on the City streets Bumbershoot causes is well documented. Pride’s impact? I haven’t heard one thing. Ahh, Pride’s impact on City services is not so very well documented, to say the least.

Even if all, well not all, but let's conservatively say 75% of all Pride attendees walked, biked, rode the ferry, or took a bus (thereby negating their activity from statically impacting traffic) that still leaves 25k ppl, out of 200k ppl, that drove or carpooled into the city. Those 25k ppl going to Pride on a Sunday did not impact Seattle traffic? Did not send folks up to Queen Anne or Capital Hill looking for parking? Circle several blocks for hours hoping for a metered spot? Yet, 25k ppl going to a baseball or football game on a Sunday do?

If I have things backwards, then 175k ppl driving to Pride did not impact traffic? Or impact it enough that in this age of statistics, the impact was not statistical important or relevant enough for a report?

I'm still not convinced that the 200k attendee number is accurate, since the anecdotal evidence and collective first hand experiences makes the number too large to fit logically. That same number used for Bumbershoot makes sense, but not for this event.