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ECB forgot to add that, as proof, the Stranger came out strong for height increases and development on Broadway despite resistance to that development by Capitol Hill (hipster) Nimbys. Voila.

Posted by Josh Feit | June 20, 2007 12:26 PM

Nah, it has more to do with it impacting your favorite places, Josh.

That's ok, we understand.

Posted by Will in Seattle | June 20, 2007 12:46 PM

"The Stranger likes density when it replaces low-density residential development or underutilized commercial space that detracts from the quality of an area"

Oh thanks Erica. That clears it up for me.

What a half ass atempt at intellectually honesty.

If Harry's little mini mart qualifies as "utilized" and "adding quality to an area"
then you and I clearly have different tastes and a different understanding of the definition of "utilized".

If only policy makers could base their decisions on such clear standards of princle, we could save all of Seattle's shitty little mini marts.

Posted by ted | June 20, 2007 12:54 PM

take a look for yourself at what Erica is defending.

If this shithole of a block/low end/low density development was in the suburbs Erica would turn up her nose and call it a strip mall.

In Seattle, Erica thinks it ='s culture.


Not pictured, is Cindy's Nail Palace and Tanning Salon

Posted by art | June 20, 2007 1:01 PM

That's terrific use of logic, Ted: "If one business out of the six mentioned happens to be below your personal standards of quality, then ECB's entire argument is automatically invalid".

Besides, Harry's has been around longer than any of the other businesses on that block (going back at least to the late 1980's when I lived just around the corner), so regardless of what you think of that particular establishment, at least it provided some stability to the row.

Posted by COMTE | June 20, 2007 1:01 PM

It's four bars, a restaurant, and a store, plus a mini mart that you apparently don't like. OK. I like the bars, the restaurant, and the store, and I have no problem with the mini mart. More to the point, though, they serve a diverse group of people in the neighborhood. The nail salons and chain fast-food restaurants that will replace them won't.

Posted by ECB | June 20, 2007 1:05 PM

Comte, wtf?

"Besides, WALMART has been around longer than any of the other businesses on that block, so regardless of what you think of WALMART, at least it provides some stability"

See COMTE, urban planning based on hipsters' tastes just doesn't work well.

Posted by ted | June 20, 2007 1:10 PM

you're right Erica.

Seattle can afford to save all the shitty bars and mini marts from denisity. The people they will be serving 5-10 years from now won't be diverse though (those people will be in Bellevue, which is already more ethnically diverse than Seattle). They will be 35 year old, rich, no kid, Labradoodle owning professionals that can afford to live here.

I think Seattle needs the density. Even in the Pike Pine corridor.

How much money do you need?

Here's the minimum household income you needed to buy a median-priced home last year in these areas, assuming a 20 percent down payment and a 30-year fixed-rate mortgage at 5.87 percent (the national average for 2005).

Queen Anne: $135,309

Central Bellevue: $129,406

Green Lake: $107,838

W. West Seattle: $104,421

Lake Sammamish: $104,206

East Ballard, Bothell, Central Area: $90,811

Lake City, Beacon Hill: $76,281

Source: Seattle Times analysis of King County assessor's data

Posted by ted | June 20, 2007 1:16 PM

ECB- 'More to the point, though, they serve a diverse group of people in the neighborhood. The nail salons and chain fast-food restaurants that will replace them won't"

And they will go out of business and businesses that appeal to the people of the neighborhood will replace them. No worries.

Posted by whatever | June 20, 2007 1:28 PM

That mini-mart always used to have that creepy porn area right by the front door. As far as "there's nothing in here that's good for you" kinda stores go, I gotta hand it to Harry's, I like a business that goes the extra mile (i.e. porn).

That blocks has housed really interesting businesses as long as I can remember. Squid Row anyone? Puss Puss Cafe (are those fucking saztikas tile patterns? Agh!)... a few vintage vintage shops have come and gone.

Posted by Dougsf | June 20, 2007 1:28 PM

A little off topic but since Manray was brought up.... I finally went to Purr this weekend (the replacement for Manray I suppose) and what I am a little concerned about is the building that it is located in. Am I the only person who looks at that building and thinks "Gee, a developer is going to buy this thing, tear it down and build condos"? Or am I just being irrational?

Posted by Just Me | June 20, 2007 1:32 PM

In other words, the Stranger supported developers and politicians without doing any critical thinking as to the negative consequences of said developers and politicians getting their way...

... at least until it was too late.

Posted by Gomez | June 20, 2007 1:44 PM

Whatever: Uh, yeah. Sort of like that wonderful Subway/T Mobile/Cingular/Nail salon/smoke shop strip mall in the QFC building up the street. Those chain stores just went right out of businesses. Except, you know, the opposite of that.

Posted by ECB | June 20, 2007 1:49 PM

My question is the building that the Stranger located in "safe" from being bought, demolated and turned into condos? Really the developers are just heading east up the Pike and Pine..... They are coming.......

Posted by Just Me | June 20, 2007 1:58 PM

Then maybe they serve the neighborhood or do you think people drive in from Bellevue to use them. Or maybe in time when not enough people buy their subways there they will rent to a business that will survive.

Posted by whatever | June 20, 2007 2:01 PM


That dog (your explanation of when and where the Stranger approves of density) won't hunt. I wouldn't go as far as comparing the displaced businesses to a strip mall, but I don't see how they should be mourned any more than the folks who lost their businesses in West Seattle and elsehwere because of the Monorail-That-Couldn't.* Just write this off as a Knute moment and enjoy your symptom. Without capitol, this is what we all must do.**

*Yes, I voted for the Monorail, every frigging time.
**When they come for Bauhaus, I will join you at the barricades. All Power to the Councils!

Posted by RobCrowe | June 20, 2007 2:44 PM

I will miss the hell out that block, whether the decision to raze it is right or wrong...

Posted by It's Mark Mitchell | June 20, 2007 3:13 PM

Ted, Ted, you ignorant slut:

The idea that any Wal*Mart anywhere has existed longer than the businesses around it is entirely irrelevent.

For one thing Wal*Marts don't have other busineses abutting them - because they displace EVERYTHING AROUND THEM. A typical Wal*Mart requires approximately six acres of parking lot, in addition to the 200,000 ft sq footprint of the store itself.

Your example is inane, stupid, and pointless. I'll let you draw your own conclusions about what I think that makes the offerer of it.

And at 46, I think I'm probably just a tad outside the "hipster" demographic.


Posted by COMTE | June 20, 2007 4:56 PM


And you said you weren't a hipster COMTE.

You edgey guy you.

Posted by ted | June 20, 2007 5:02 PM

Actually, the building they're in is tall enough it's unlikely to be developed.

Posted by Will in Seattle | June 20, 2007 5:38 PM

@11 manray rip. The rumor is the building that Purr is in is possibly experiencing 100% + rent increases. That's usually a precursor...

Posted by oh, the humanity | June 20, 2007 7:21 PM
those people will be in Bellevue, which is already more ethnically diverse than Seattle
According to the Census, Seattle has fewer whites (as a ratio) and more blacks, Latinos, Native Americans, and nearly as many Asians (16.6% vs 17.39%) and more Gays.

So what makes Bellevue more diverse exactly?

Posted by Angry Andrew | June 20, 2007 7:40 PM

I'm not trying to say that Seattle's some awesome diverse place (it's not) but neither is Bellevue.

Posted by Angry Andrew | June 20, 2007 7:50 PM

In the 1990 decennial census, 14 percent of Bellevue residents identified themselves as a race other than White; in the 2000 census, almost 26 percent did so. In the 2005 ACS, the share of Bellevue residents who are a race other than White was estimated to be about 32 percent (with a margin of error of approximately plus or minus 4 percentage points). Asians continue to be Bellevue’s largest minority race. In 2005, Asians were estimated to be about 25 percent of the city’s population (+/- 4 percentage points). This was up from 17 percent in the 2000 census. Roughly 5.5 percent of Bellevue’s population were estimated to be of Hispanic or Latino ethnicity (of any race) in both 2000 and 2005.
• While diversity is increasing throughout most of the United States, Bellevue continues to be significantly more diverse than King County and the nation as a whole. The estimated 32 percent in Bellevue who are a race other than White compares to 27 percent for King County and 25 percent for the nation as a whole.

Posted by bob | June 20, 2007 9:26 PM

and the last census was taking when Andrew?


It is 2007

Take a trip outside Seattle for once.

Want to argue about how diverse South King County is too?

Posted by billy | June 20, 2007 9:32 PM

Hey, I go outside Seattle all the time, I work in Redmond and I was in Kent just today.

I would agree that South King County is very diverse. Burien and White Center are some of the most diverse places in Washington.

Bellevue might be 68% white (which is, uh the national average last I checked), but not-white doesn't necessarily equal diverse. I worked at a company in that was about half English and half East Indian. The not white factor was huge there, close to 50%. But it wasn't diverse. In San Francisco I worked at a place that had people from Mexico (though they are both white), Ukraine, Russia, Romania, China, Phillipines, Korea, Black Americans, Black Carribeans, etc. That was a diverse office, even though way more than half the people were white. My point is only that a place that is 70% white and 25% asian isn't as diverse as South King County where it's like 10% black, 10% latino, 10% asian. How about a town in the south that is 98% black, is that divese? You see what I mean?

Posted by Angry Andrew | June 20, 2007 10:59 PM

Hey, I even kind of like downtown bellevue.

The 25% national white statistic is from the 2000 census I was just told not to use anymore and counts white latinos, which means it's a different statistic than the 68% that bellevue uses.

And from the same 2005 survay bellevue uses it says Seattle is 68% white which means Seattle is just as non-white as Bellevue, and I don't think non-white is the best "diversity" statistic.

Posted by Angry Andrew | June 20, 2007 11:11 PM

"Requiem for a Block" would be a great title for a protest folk song!

Posted by so sad about us | June 20, 2007 11:34 PM

yeah all those Orientals in Bellevue are one in the same. Right Andrew? I sure as hell can't tell them apart.

Which neighborhoods in Seattle do you think will get more diverse in the next ten years?

South Lake Union? Madison Valley?

Meanwhile, Erica laments the closing of shitty mini marts on the basis that they are "utilized" and "add quality to an area"

That's Greenstremist intellectual honesty for you.

Posted by billy | June 21, 2007 7:04 AM

I think most of us prefer "asian" to "oriental" but thanks anyway.

Posted by Angry Andrew | June 21, 2007 10:39 AM

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