Slog News & Arts

Line Out

Music & Nightlife

« Re: Leaving Portland | Today On Line Out. »

Monday, June 18, 2007

Be Boys

posted by on June 18 at 16:21 PM

I have just read a distressing police report. A father reported to the police that his 12-year-old son was being bullied at school. Boys of his age and size chase him around the playground and give him the occasional knuckle sandwich. The father wants the police to help him do something about this bullying. But, honestly, how can a father have such a low opinion of his son? A mother, yes. But a father? Intervening? Getting all wrapped up in his boy’s little world because his boy can’t sort out his tight little situations? How sorry, how sad. How I enjoyed the fights of my boyhood, and I lost every single one of them. Sometimes I’d return home with a red eye or a mouth full of blood. But my father stayed out of it, as well as my mother. They were only worried about my homework, my grades, my studies. The rest of it (swollen lips, bruised ribs, cracked teeth) was my business.

RSS icon Comments


It's easy. Stop being a douche bag.

Posted by Mr. Poe | June 18, 2007 4:31 PM

Getting the police involved will further ostracize this kid.

But Dad should definitely get involved by teaching and encouraging his son to fight back.

Posted by Sean | June 18, 2007 4:37 PM

Would it be a distressing report if the 12 year old was black and being bullied by a dozen white kids? I'm sure it will be a distressing report in three weeks when SPD responds to a shots fired at a school by student who was bullied.

Posted by Ryan | June 18, 2007 4:37 PM

My dad thought the same way that you did so I never felt like I could go to him with all of my bully problems. Instead I constantly hid in plain site, faked stomach aches to go home, and generally did shitty in school.

So Charles, do your potential offspring a favor and don't have them.

Fucking idiot.

Posted by monkey | June 18, 2007 4:37 PM

Gimme your lunch money, Charles.

Posted by JC | June 18, 2007 4:39 PM

Oh, my God. Charles.

Posted by Dan Savage | June 18, 2007 4:39 PM

As a professional working in mental health services, I have seen the results of bullying's effects on some kids and it's not pretty. It is the reason why many children miss attending school everyday across the nation. We all need to teach children to solve their problems without using violence. Otherwise they will grow up and become presidents.

Posted by Annan | June 18, 2007 4:40 PM

Chaz...just because your parents didnt do something doesnt mean you should lecture parents on how they do things. especially if you are an indication of your parent's rearing.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | June 18, 2007 4:41 PM

Just to make sure: my #1 comment was aimed at Charles and his past, not the boy discussed.

Posted by Mr. Poe | June 18, 2007 4:41 PM

When I fought back my dad beat me, so I was getting it at school and getting it at home. Better to get your ass beat than become a bully yourself.

Posted by elswinger | June 18, 2007 4:41 PM

You have to be kidding me? What if this kid is always singled out and bullied, its never an exchange? Perhaps he's a different race, or more fem, or just odd. The dad shouldnt have called the cops, but gone to the school hell yes. You can't just let bullying continue to "build character" because some kids get pushed too far and they push back with violence on a massive scale. Charles, please don't have children until you spend more time with children. I bet if that boy told you his story you wouldnt tell him to buck up and spit out the blood.

Posted by Hunter | June 18, 2007 4:42 PM

As a Dad, I can related to the whole "this is how it was for me as a kid, so this is how it should be for my kids" view of parenting. Fortunately for my kids, my wife is smart enough to convince me how fucking stupid this line of reasoning is.

Posted by Sean | June 18, 2007 4:42 PM


I have to say this. Sometimes I think you think you think so well and so much that basically you aren't thinking at all. Like, ever.

Posted by Mr. Poe | June 18, 2007 4:45 PM

the funniest thing is, if this kid went on to kill someone, charles put some ridiculous marxist spin on it.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | June 18, 2007 4:47 PM

I used to think along similar lines because I never had a serious problem with bullying as a child. But when I was working on the anti-bullying bill a few years ago, I kept hearing all these stories from adults who were STILL traumatized and seething with rage about their children tormentors. On one radio call in show, the caller basically said--in a suddenly shaking and emotional voice--that if he could find the bully today he would torture him to death. So clearly, not everyone holds the same "kids will be's no big deal" view as Mr. Mudede. Just ask the victims of Columbine or other school shootings were bullying was a likely cause for the adolescent angst.

Anyway, I've always thought it was amazing that adults could be so dismissive of this kind of violence. If someone chased you around and gave you a "knuckle sandwich" I'm pretty sure you wouldn't laugh it off. You would probably call the police and they would probably charge the offender with assault. If the law protects adults in this way, we should certainly do the same for kids.

Posted by Scott H | June 18, 2007 4:48 PM

on second thought, this might be a cultural thing. first, there were no guns in my boyhood world, so fighting wasn't so dangerous. next, i went to a boy's school, and so fights were very common and usually ended in strong friendships.

Posted by charles | June 18, 2007 4:48 PM

This might be a cultural thing? Just admit you're wrong for a change.

Posted by Mr. Poe | June 18, 2007 4:51 PM

chaz, im sure you thought they were friendships. all that is the most chicken shit escape i have ever seen from a terrible almost indefenseble position ever.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | June 18, 2007 4:52 PM

I think it's great the dad's getting the police involved. Bullies need to learn at a younger age they can't get away with beating the crap out of people. Maybe juvenile intervention will keep these bully kids from growing up into bully adult (assholes). I was bullied in the 6th grade by a group of boys. You know who stuck up for me? Elain Sturgis, that's right a girl. So yeah I'd rather have the police do it. That would certainly be less humiliating for the boy...

Posted by jhell | June 18, 2007 4:54 PM

The father and/or mother should be available for consultation and advise their offspring to fight back either with words or deeds. Doing nothing just invites more bullying.

Bullying completely sucks.

Posted by fight | June 18, 2007 4:55 PM

The authorities should never intervene in any assaults, beatings, or domestic violence. As long as the combatants get to work on time, meet production deadlines, and get good grades, leave them alone to sort it out on their own. The ones who survive will feel much better about themselves and the police will have more time to protect the shrubbery.

Posted by pox | June 18, 2007 4:57 PM

I have respect for parents who take their kids to martial arts classes that teach their kids how to defend themselves.

And we are a nation of pussies that breeds pussies.

ALL THAT SAID, I have to wonder why the school allows said bullies to run after and pound up this kid day after day without having taken any action whatsoever. The dad's not necessarily questioning his son's manhood as much as questioning why the fuck school officials aren't doing shit about this recurring problem.

Posted by Gomez | June 18, 2007 4:59 PM

My father's advice about school fights was simple and effective:

Win or lose, land at least one good punch.

Any loss became a win; I never had to go a second time with anyone once they got a bit of the knuckle sandwich put back on their plate. And then there was Billy Cahill who, to my amazement, when his constant bullying pushed me to the point of my starting to swing one day, crumpled like a lawnchair under my underdog counterpunching. Pivotal moment for him in front of everybody. I smile typing this.

Happy Father's Day, dad.

Posted by Lloyd Clydesdale | June 18, 2007 5:00 PM

@22 and when karate class doesn't work is that when Dad should buy the first handgun? or does that come after the switchblade?

Posted by Ryan | June 18, 2007 5:03 PM

Charles- Seattle doesnt have much of a gun culture/problem. But I think you're right in that its a cultural difference.

Im sure it was different for you growing up in Rhodesia, but its always different for those of us who fought back and those that are either too scared or feel too weak.

I grew up in Philly, specifically in Camden on the Jersey side, and there you were "called out" by bigger boys in elementary school, and you better fight back or you were in for a long miserable childhood.

I think Seattle is not as predatory, and I think dads should teach kids how to fight back or stand up for themselves. If the kid is too weak or too much of a recluse, than the dad should enroll him in a Brazilian jiu jitsu class. The dad shouldnt back off. He should raise hell in school, he should demand that they enforce their anti bullying policy. If anything the kid will feel protected even if he is getting whupped. But I think a dad should Teach your kid how to fight,its just as important as fractions. A few licks and the little chumps will back off.

Posted by SeMe | June 18, 2007 5:04 PM

"But, honestly, how can a father have such a low opinion of his son? A mother, yes. But a father?"

oh charles.

Posted by craig | June 18, 2007 5:06 PM

While I think school officials should have been contacted before police, some adult damn well should intervene. I know that it's unlikely we'll have a Columbine event in Seattle, we do have suburbs.

Posted by Gitai | June 18, 2007 5:10 PM

Holy Crap Mr Muende...

How much do you charge for rent in that empty skull of yours.

Mr. Poe is SO right.

A side note: I love it when morons with NO children start lecturing people WITH children on how to raise them.

Posted by ecce homo | June 18, 2007 5:12 PM

Perhaps Charles your mother and father stayed out of your getting your ass kicked all the time because deep down, they knew what a fucking asshole you are.

Posted by Sally Struthers Lawnchair | June 18, 2007 5:16 PM

ecce homo: i have two kids, a boy and a girl. the boy is 11. because he has some size to him, he has no bullying problems.

Posted by charles | June 18, 2007 5:23 PM


Maybe he is a bully. That wouldn't suprise me in the least. Or wait till high school. That'll be funny.

And weren't you some badass child soldier? Toting a gun and waxing some serious ass?

Posted by ecce homo | June 18, 2007 5:29 PM

The biggest threat a bully has is the threat of violence. When a bully looks around and picks YOU, the most humiliating thing a bully can cause through action is a) to have no one intervene, and b) to have someone else intervene on your behalf.

Posted by Lloyd Clydesdale | June 18, 2007 5:39 PM

Please do not express any thoughts that you nkow would go against our mushy Seattle views.
Especially if they are about gender roles.
Peace, peace, peace, genders are the same, the same, the same, peace, peace, peace, ommmmmmmmmmmm...Now, isn't that better than all that comparing/observing/thinking and oh my golly, debating and arguing that seems to go on in Rhodesia and Phildelphia and all those yucky non-Seattle places? Ok now that you believe what we all believe -- we are cool. peace out.

Posted by Calvinist Paximus | June 18, 2007 5:48 PM

Oh yes, lets further the stereotype that boys should be rough fighting dickwad's in hierarchical system of the oppressed and oppressors. So little Johhny, that bloody nose is just the way things are, dog eat dog and all that jazz.

I was never physically abused in school, but I do know what it's like to be singled out and ostracized. This father is simply at his wits end trying to protect his child. If this were girls no one would ever think to say the things you said in your post.

God, you sound like fucking Ward Cleaver only full of more shit.

Posted by Brandon H | June 18, 2007 5:49 PM

#30: How would you know?

Posted by hey | June 18, 2007 5:50 PM

Builds character, that's what my dad always said. I totally agree, so I like to spend my free time going around the elementary schools and beating the crap out of a few random boys. Little fuckers think they're tough until they meet up with me and my friends Hillerich and Bradsby. The ones that survive will at least know they can take a beating.

In other words, Charles, you're insane.

Posted by Fnarf | June 18, 2007 5:55 PM

its funny how chaz does that 34. he hates a system where the strong (a large definition of strong) survive and the weak dont; capitalism, but then he is all for letting his son get beat up wholesale.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | June 18, 2007 6:01 PM

For all we know the father did go to school officials and they refused to do anything or their actions had no effect.

I'm more than happy to see violent bullies locked up for their behavior. Force the sniveling brats to see that their actions have consequences. Bonus points if it forces their parents to realize that their precious angels are neither.

Posted by keshmeshi | June 18, 2007 6:11 PM

I was teased in an all girls school until I slapped one tormenter in the face,real hard, and astonished everyone. The incident made me more comfortable getting aggressive when I felt threatened, and most of the time it has helped. Later, when my little brother was bullied I took his assailant- 6 years younger than me, and shook the hell out of him. No more bullying. The world isn't a pretty place most of the time and parents can't always be there to help. Just another point of view.

Posted by Tiny Ballerinaa | June 18, 2007 6:19 PM

Charles, My dead chap, the other key difference is that you obviously went to a private British styled priviliged school. I'm sure your neighbours and school mates looked different than the public academies in Zimbabwe. Perhaps in other schools defence was not an option for other lads.

What was it like for the poor in Harare? A lot to which you obviously did not belong to.

I bet a lot worse than you had it.

Posted by Louie | June 18, 2007 6:26 PM

I hate to agree w/ Charles and Bellevue Ave, but how are boys going to learn that assault is accepted and rewarded if they don't learn it young. If some guys coming at you on the floor of the exchange and you don't swing that board with the nail through it with some force, you are going to get your skull cracked open (oh, and you'll never get your trade executed). To paraphrase Adam Smith 'it's a fucking jungle out there.' Or was it 'the invisible hand should be clenched in a fist'?

Posted by vegetable lasagna | June 18, 2007 6:43 PM

Dear God. Just fire him. Please. That's all we ask...

Posted by Thom | June 18, 2007 6:44 PM

You don't even need to fire him. Just stop paying him.

Posted by Mr. Poe | June 18, 2007 6:50 PM

i didn't agree with chaz at all veggie. perhaps you're purposely being stupid or you just can't read.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | June 18, 2007 7:00 PM

Oh, man, being bullied sucked, but if my parents had gone to the school or police about it, it would have been so much worse. Why do people in this country think that parents need to fix everything for their kids?

Posted by F | June 18, 2007 7:07 PM

who wants to start a petition to fire chaz?

Posted by Bellevue Ave | June 18, 2007 7:12 PM

I think veggie was practicing a little biting sarcasm.

Posted by brandon h | June 18, 2007 7:13 PM

When you raised 'capitalism', I thought you were comparing our murdering of innocents and war profiteering to the bullying of kids in an implicit approval. Unfortunatley, I fear that the corrupt strong in this 'capitalist' society who started this war will be resting comfortably on a beach somewhere when the Suadis, Chinese and Japanese decide that some part of the bill for this fiasco has come due.

Posted by vegetable lasagna | June 18, 2007 7:13 PM

the japanese had their chance twice. they failed both times. the chinese wont do shit because they need us as bad as we need them, and the saudis? they arent going to kill the goose that keeps laying eggs.

capitalism rocks, bullying doesnt. because in bullying there is no mutual benefit to the actions.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | June 18, 2007 7:18 PM

Respect for taking my response better than I probably would have and your view on bullying. WRT your views on economics, 1) you can't run the trade deficit that we're running with China and 2) you only spend trillions protecting against 1,000 guys living in caves if the military industrial complex is out of control (due to lax ethics rules and when they get they're hands on all the e-mails from those 88 govt official accounts that the RNC was running, we'll all see how true that is - a huge bombshell report out today

Posted by vegetable lasagna | June 18, 2007 7:32 PM

I'm with you, Charles. I used to get molested by my teacher every day after school, but thank goodness my dad didn't help me sort out my "tight little situations", and I'm still in therapy as a result! Parents shouldn't meddle in their little boys'/girls' worlds.

Posted by dahlia | June 18, 2007 7:35 PM

Should girls who get bullied punch back, too, and suck it up and be "men"? Or are these values only applicable to boys?

I like Charles, and I don't want to see him fired (not that our petition would hold weight, anyway). But jeez, ya, in this culture we can't tolerate bullying for all of the above reasons. Good for Dad. My parents found me a new school. I hope that kid survives, like I managed to.

Posted by bitch on heels | June 18, 2007 7:40 PM

#37 says it all for this post. Let us keep looking at #37, and wait for Charles and his moron reply.

Posted by Mr. Poe | June 18, 2007 7:40 PM

Also, look at #51.

But I'm sure he has some bullshit asinine reply for that one, compliments of boy vs. girl in his simple, small, banjaxed brain.

Posted by Mr. Poe, Film Fanatic | June 18, 2007 7:43 PM

dont get me started on the idiocy of the budget deficit and military spending. I hate both.

The trade deficit isn't that bad depending on who you are. I like to see china improving themselves, and it's nice to know that it will equalize eventually. I don't want to deprive china or the chinese people of the ability to improve their lives greatly versus the small loss of quality of life for people who have so much privilege and opportunity but squander it, or think they can have it all.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | June 18, 2007 7:56 PM

also, I dont dislike you veggie, I just like giving you crap! :)

Posted by Bellevue Ave | June 18, 2007 7:57 PM

If you fire Charles I'll stop reading the paper AND Slog.

Posted by Fnarf | June 18, 2007 8:08 PM

I wish I had tits. God I could be such a hot chick. I just wanted to say that.

Posted by Mr. Poe | June 18, 2007 8:08 PM

Nobody is going to fire Charles. Jesus Christ.

Posted by Mr. Poe | June 18, 2007 8:09 PM

If you fire Chaz who will I pick on at The Stranger? Josh? Jen?

No, Chaz fulfills the stupid whipping boy role quite fine.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | June 18, 2007 8:11 PM

I still think we should make a petition to fire Chaz just to let him know where he stands.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | June 18, 2007 8:13 PM

He knows were he stands. I think Freaky Friday took care of that.

Posted by Mr. Poe | June 18, 2007 8:19 PM

It's late, and I'm horny. I'm going to go annoy the shit out of my husband.

Posted by Mr. Poe | June 18, 2007 8:21 PM

Im going to annoy the shit out of my special lady friend. while im in the bath tub drinking PBR stationed on top of a red bucket.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | June 18, 2007 8:26 PM

I am totally convinced that "Charles Mudede" is in fact not a real person, but instead an invented character (a la "Ed Anger" from the Weekly World News), who exists solely to advance the stereotype that Africans are ignorant, culturally backward savages.

Posted by bob | June 18, 2007 9:40 PM

#65: I wish you were an "invented character" rather than one more run of the mill racist A-holes.

Posted by Tiny Ballerinaa | June 18, 2007 9:48 PM

Fuckin' A Chuck. Mixed martial arts and PBR to curl the hair on your boy's chest. Fuck all these uptight Seattlite pussies, there ain't nuthin' like a good ol' playground brawl to determine a sixth grade pecking order.

Posted by Camus | June 18, 2007 10:11 PM

Fuckin' A Chuck. Mixed martial arts and PBR to curl the hair on your boy's chest. Fuck all these uptight Seattlite pussies, there ain't nuthin' like a good ol' playground brawl to determine a sixth grade pecking order.

Posted by Camus | June 18, 2007 10:11 PM

Fuckin' A Chuck. Mixed martial arts and PBR to curl the hair on your boy's chest. Fuck all these uptight Seattlite pussies, there ain't nuthin' like a good ol' playground brawl to determine a sixth grade pecking order.

Posted by Camus | June 18, 2007 10:11 PM

I'm with fnarf @ 57
even though I usually don't agree with Mudede's random, opinionated slogging... he's just damn fun to read. But this particular post-- I kind of GET where he's coming from. The people that are getting their panties in a wad over this post are probably forgetting that this father called the PO-LICE about a schoolyard bully... I don't know the specifics of the situation-- like say if they actually threatened the kid's life, then my view would be different. But as it stands with this brief description, I think it's ridiculous. A kid being chased around and occasionally punched is not a fucking police matter.

Posted by Jamey | June 18, 2007 10:24 PM

I propose a new theory: that this bullied young man is merely another (for lack of a better word) casualty of Reason's cunning in the progression of world history.

Posted by G.W.F. | June 18, 2007 10:50 PM

Jamey @ 70, yeah, we don't know the specifics of the situation, and unless we read the police report ourselves, the best we're going to get is a very slanted view from Mudede. I'm willing to bet, though, that the boy really did feel his life was threatened. If another adult attacked me, I would feel the same way.

In the adult world, beating up other people is generally considered wrong, but Charles seems to think it's ok if boys do it to each other. Is it also ok for boys to beat up other boys because of their sexual orientation? Or because they are of a different ethnicity? How about if a boy beats up a girl? Will she come to accept that this is just part of life and "boys will be boys"?. What if that girl is his daughter?

Posted by Ebenezer | June 18, 2007 10:56 PM

The misery of being bullied without recourse may build character, but that's no reason to wish it upon anyone.

For one thing, there is no guarantee of what kind of character it will build.

Posted by Diana | June 18, 2007 11:45 PM

Look what kind of character building resulted from Charles getting his ass kicked all the time. Totally crippled inside.

Posted by Sally Struthers Lawnchair | June 19, 2007 12:02 AM

jesus, did the dad really have to call the cops? clearly, no one likes a bully. but, no one likes a snitch, either.

that kid's really gonna get the business now on the playground.

Posted by kerri harrop | June 19, 2007 12:18 AM

Please, please stop. I can't handle reading any more opinions about breasts, or how little boys should be tough, or how gross old people are, or breasts, or how gross pregnant women are. Or breasts. I just can't deal with reading these same opinions over and over.

Posted by S.L. | June 19, 2007 1:14 AM

Charles: I couldn't agree with you more. This is why I endorse betting on your children in schoolyard fights. Nothing gets a child more motivated to kick ass than knowing Daddy's got a $20 riding on him.

Posted by Matty Worth | June 19, 2007 6:37 AM

Dude, I finally get why I can't hate Charles. Because of the shit he writes I get to sit here for 20 minutes and read the shit you guys post in response and HOWL with laughter. hahahahahaha

Posted by JessB | June 19, 2007 7:37 AM

If the bullying gets bad, the parents contact the teachers and the principal's office. Otherwise, let your kid make a self-confidence-affirming attempt to learn to deal on his/her own. Kids, after all, have to make the leap into the world of peerdom, to try to find their initial place there. It's an early, big test for kids to find out what they're made of, and the less that parents (or anyone else) has to meddle in that process the better, right?

Posted by Lloyd Clydesdale | June 19, 2007 7:55 AM

Some sloggers are just plain loony. Fire Charles? For an opinion?

He is one of the most original writers on that rag. And a fine rag tis.

Hell, I say, Charles for school board!!

Posted by SeMe | June 19, 2007 9:30 AM

Diana at #73 says it all. You can't decide for anyone else what he or she can take or what it will lead to. If the school isn't doing its job, then the police should be called in. It's ionic that underage kids are penalized for consensual sex but excused for definitely NONconsensual abuse.

Posted by Stephanie | June 19, 2007 9:34 AM

Um, I meant "ironic," not "ionic."

Posted by Stephanie | June 19, 2007 9:36 AM

I don't have kids, so probably have no place posting here. That said, I think there must be a middle ground between Mudede's and the people saying that calling the cops was a good idea.

Maybe I'm crazy but from what I remember of school and bullies, calling the cops to sort out a playground issue will likely be much more damaging to this kid in the long run. This poor kid is going to be ostracised by his peers, all of them- not just the bully, because of what his dad did. I certainly agree that violence isn't the ideal answer, but having someone else stand up for you isn't necessarily right either.

It's been a decade plus since I was there, but when I hear this story I think that the reason this kid is getting beat up is more a lack of confidence than anything. Otherwise it'd be someone else getting beat up because surely there is a weaker, weirder kid on the playground to pick on.

So, I guess my point is that if this kid could build some confidence (it seems that Charles would argue that the way to do this is fighting back) he could deal with it himself rather than being an ostracised snitch. Personally, I was in Karate for a few years and it did wonders. I wasn't in many fights as a kid- but I haven't been in a single one since I took martial arts. It builds self-confidence and self-knowledge which helps someone avoid being a victim.

A bully looks for weakness. If they're facing someone who is capable of hitting back they're more likely than not to move along to the next kid.

Posted by pansy | June 19, 2007 10:26 AM

recommendations gambling online >online recommendations gambling

Posted by recommendations gambling online | June 26, 2007 10:30 AM

recommendations gambling online >online recommendations gambling

Posted by recommendations gambling online | June 26, 2007 10:31 AM

Las Vegas
[url=] condosforrent las newyears vegas [/url]

Posted by rewq4545 | July 1, 2007 12:54 AM

Comments Closed

In order to combat spam, we are no longer accepting comments on this post (or any post more than 14 days old).