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Wednesday, May 9, 2007

“The Only Moral Abortion Is My Abortion”

posted by on May 9 at 13:38 PM

“I have done several abortions on women who have regularly picketed my clinics, including a 16 year old schoolgirl who came back to picket the day after her abortion, about three years ago. During her whole stay at the clinic, we felt that she was not quite right, but there were no real warning bells. She insisted that the abortion was her idea and assured us that all was OK. She went through the procedure very smoothly and was discharged with no problems. A quite routine operation. Next morning she was with her mother and several school mates in front of the clinic with the usual anti posters and chants. It appears that she got the abortion she needed and still displayed the appropriate anti views expected of her by her parents, teachers, and peers.”

More tales of anti-choice women choosing to have abortions here.

Via Sullivan.

RSS icon Comments

1

I clicked this link via Sullivan. It's one of the more shocking I've seen. I don't know why I'm shocked at the blatant denial and hypocrisy....just am. What's most interesting is how these women see the doctor as the "murderer" and themselves as the victim.

Posted by boston hearts seatac | May 9, 2007 1:49 PM
2

I feel for these women. It's not so much hypocrisy and denial - it's more about that the psychological impacts of having an abortion can be unpredictable and life changing. What a blender of competing emotional challenges they have to go through.

Posted by raindrop | May 9, 2007 2:07 PM
3

It was a good read and I am glad it wasn't snarky. The hypocrisy of the "Pro-Life" crowd never ceases to amaze me. They don't seem to get if real sex education were taught in schools, there would be a lot less abortions and stds.

Posted by elswinger | May 9, 2007 2:09 PM
4

Most religions have fostered this "good for me, bad for thee" attitude over the millenia, so really it's no big surprise. But yes, this is one of the more blatant example in recent memory.

Presumably, the clinic treats patient info in the strictest of confidence, so it seems likely that the protester never told her parents she was having the abortion in the first place, which begs the question: how supportive of their daughter would they have been, IF they'd known she'd just had an abortion at the very clinic she was now picketing?

Posted by COMTE | May 9, 2007 2:10 PM
5

@2 - This is the height of hypocrisy and denial! Anti-choice women who continue to be anti-choice after choosing to have an abortion, who think that somehow their circumstances are special, are in COMPLETE denial.

Posted by Soupytwist | May 9, 2007 2:11 PM
6

I think we know EXACTLY how supportive they would have been, which is "not at all". That's why the deception. These people live in mortal terror every second of their lives, and mortal terror makes people do some strange things. That poor girl must cry herself to sleep every night (and then spends her days making others cry). What a world.

Posted by Fnarf | May 9, 2007 2:13 PM
7

if you tell someone all their young life that abortion is wrong, and then they make the difficult decision have one, they will more likely than not be overwhelmed with feelings of grief afterwards that will convince them they were right in the first place: that abortion is wrong.

some of those stories are the stories of hypocrites. some are the story of confused people wrestling with different pressures. it is difficult to show such a person compassion, but in some cases, it will go a long way.

Posted by infrequent | May 9, 2007 2:19 PM
8

Haven't you heard the joke? The gallows humor goes as follows:

What are the four situations in which most Americans agree abortion should be legal?

1. Rape
2. Incest
3. Life of the mother
4. Me

Posted by Gitai | May 9, 2007 2:19 PM
9

Instead of vilifying them, let's have compassion for these tormented women.

Posted by raindrop | May 9, 2007 2:19 PM
10

The sad thing is that the majority of clinic patients for abortion are those who have previously self-identified as being anti-choice or anti-abortion.

This most likely is highly correlated with not using contraception, of course.

Not just in the US either.

Posted by Will in Seattle | May 9, 2007 2:23 PM
11

I have no sympathy for people who willingly choose to spew close-minded hate towards things they turn around and have done themselves behind their fellow hatemongers' backs. None. There comes a point where my sympathy disappears and I expect you to conduct yourself, if not with common sense, then with some sort of consistency.

Look at what these people do. This is America.

Posted by Gomez | May 9, 2007 2:24 PM
12

I think it is important to remember that the girl is 16, and she was there the next day WITH her mother, who likely was more passionate than her. If this had been the mother getting an abortion it would be a bit more outrageous. However, hipocratic this girl may have been, I would say she is more misguided and confused than anything.

Posted by Trevor | May 9, 2007 2:24 PM
13

@2

...

Posted by Mr. Poe | May 9, 2007 2:32 PM
14

That was a fascinating article and all, but the term "anti-choice" has bugged me for years. I'm pro-choice myself, but pro-lifers are no more anti-choice than we're anti-life or pro-death.

The terms pro-life and pro-choice, while seeming to act as a sort of implicit strawman of the opposing view, at least accurately reflect the motivations behind the stances.

Posted by Ben | May 9, 2007 2:39 PM
15

gomez -

many people who regret their abortion hate themselves for it. when you find them picketing, it could be drawn from a well of grief, misguidence, and a need to deal with emotional and mentail confusion ... or anguish.

there are many times of protestors. from reading the link, i see at least three:

1. the straight up hypocrite. (it's okay for me because of my case)
2. the confused. (i feel i need one, but all my family and friends say it's wrong)
3. the regret. (i can't believe i did this, i need to stop others from it)

but reading on in the articlue, you see how each of these types can also learn from it. those who learned seemed to do so because of the support they received during a difficult time.

Posted by infrequent | May 9, 2007 2:43 PM
16

If girls of such a young age are openly perceived to be too confused and misguided -- and therefore their hypocritical actions should garner understanding and compassion -- why are we allowing them to even consent to abortions in the first place? Shouldn't we be calling for their rights to be revoked, considering we don't believe them to be sound of mind? Why are we saying it's ok for a girl to make these choices when we don't judge her capable?

If she's allowed to have an abortion, then we are implicitly saying she is fit for such a privilege. Thus, we can't excuse her actions on the grounds of confusion or misguidance.

Posted by Gloria | May 9, 2007 2:44 PM
17

Oh what the fuck you guys?

• Hypocrisy? Okay, quick show of hands: everyone here who’s against the war, raise your hands. Everyone here who thinks oil is the reason we’re at war, raise your hands. Everyone who pays their taxes and drives a car, raise your hands.

Yeah.

Everyone who’s in favor of allowing Mexican immigrants to colonize the United States, but against allowing European immigrants to colonize Palestine, raise your hands. Ladies—all y’all who object to being objectified but who still own a wonder bra and a low-cut top, raise your hands. Guys—all y’all who wonder why the pretty girls only date the assholes, raise your hands. Everyone who supports free speech and wants laws outlawing hate speech, raise your hands.

Christ, you guys. It's called a fucking mirror. Learn to use one.

Posted by Judah | May 9, 2007 2:48 PM
18

Judah, you're kind of a dick.

Posted by Soupytwist | May 9, 2007 2:56 PM
19

What do you mean "kind of"?

Posted by Boomer in NYC | May 9, 2007 2:58 PM
20

Soupytwist: You're hardly the first to say so. But, you know, I grow on people after a while.

Posted by Judah | May 9, 2007 2:58 PM
21

@14 - I think "pro-life" is a broad and misleading description. They are really "anti-abortion" or "anti-choice." When I talk about reproductive choices, I'm talking about the gamut not just abortion, thus "pro-choice."

Posted by Soupytwist | May 9, 2007 3:00 PM
22

gloria: i never said anything about "girls" or "women". i think people can be confused and brainwashed, and women, young and old alike, as well as men and boys, are all people. people who may have been told one thing all their lives and find themselves in a difficult position when that clashes with the reality they experience.

to have not pity for a girl who wants an abortion or a gay boy in a predominantly christian environment is not nice and potentially not helpful. though, sure, it might not be wrong either.

what's wrong with being compassionate? what's wrong with helping? ever been stuck in a difficult position? ever have to wrestle with your belief system?

Posted by infrequent | May 9, 2007 3:02 PM
23
I think "pro-life" is a broad and misleading description. They are really "anti-abortion"

So, Soupytwist, what exactly is their motive for being "anti-abortion"? Be as precise as you can.

Posted by Judah | May 9, 2007 3:06 PM
24

15. Somebody should go to the next abortion clinic protest with a megaphone and tell them this. They clearly don't get it.

As you might tell, I'm not a big fan of forgiving ignorance. The world punishes my ignorance. Is it unreasonable for me to expect the same of others?

Posted by Gomez | May 9, 2007 3:12 PM
25

pro-life : anti-choice : "fetus is a life"
pro-choice : anti-life : "fetus is my body"

???

because pro-life on one side implies anti-life or pro-death. i'm not sure that's an exactly fair representation...

Posted by infrequent | May 9, 2007 3:15 PM
26

Judah IS kind of a dick but chicks like that. Besides, he's not wrong.

I can't criticize because it's hard to know why they think the way they do. Who knows where they are coming from. What seems like hypocracy might not be.

My sister had an abortion when she was young. Had she had that baby...well... it would have sucked for all involved. Today she is a born again christian to the enth degree and of course opposes abortion. She is now happily married (3rd times a charm) and wants to but hasn't been able to get pregnant. So from her view, "I could have had a baby but I killed it and now that I want one I can't."

She (and any woman for that matter) has got a better frame of reference about the subject than I do since I will never be in the position of needing/wanting an abortion (I'm a gay male so try as I might I'm never getting preggers). I hate the idea of abortion and I like to think that if I was a woman I would never have one. I think it's sad and to be avoided at all costs.

With that said (very easily for me to say) I don't think anyone has the right to MAKE a woman have a baby she doesn't want, regardless of how she got pregnant in the first place. Do I think she should be told of every possible option? Absolutly! But at the end of the day it's her body, not anyone elses.

You want to eliminate abortion? Make them unnecessary. REAL sex education is a start. Sadly, there will always be a demand regardless of what we do. I think more sad than the babies that are aborted are the ones born into a hellish life to people who have no business being parents.

Posted by monkey | May 9, 2007 3:19 PM
27

A lot of people who say they are "Pro-Life" are for capitol punishment and the war in Iraq.

Posted by elswinger | May 9, 2007 3:24 PM
28

nothing you say is wrong, gomez, just not in my view a beneficial way to deal with the problem. to deal with a person it can be helpful to understand their motivation.

if you tell someone who appears hateful that they are ignorant... i don't think that will lead to positive discourse.

with some types, however, you just give up. i don't think you really want to talk with them at all. but with others, you might possibly be able to help them.

and what are we doing? talking abortion on teh internet? who am i kidding? if i really wanted positive results i'd give this up right now!

i'll just end with this: i hope i did not offend anyone who has dealt with this experience first hand, nor did i ever even remotely imply that women are not capable of choosing (as another poster suggested i was).

Posted by infrequent | May 9, 2007 3:24 PM
29

Well, tough. We as a society pussyfoot the truth, and as a result never really get through to people. Being blunt hurts, but it hurts because it finally reaches what was otherwise unreachable: your conscious mind.

Posted by Gomez | May 9, 2007 3:34 PM
30

Ben @14,

The pro-life label only works for people who value all life. How many people who oppose abortion also oppose war and the death penalty? Officially, the Catholic Church has a consistent pro-life policy, but notice that the hierarchy has only been trying to deny communion to politicians who are pro-choice and not to politicians who support the death penalty or the Iraq war.

Judah @17,

Your comparison to run-of-the-mill hypocrisy would work much better with:

People who are against the war in Iraq but think that unprovoked war is fine in other cases, such as nation-building in southeastern Europe.

Women who own wonder bras and low-cut tops but scorn other women who objectify themselves.


These anti-choicers are demonstrating that kind of hypocrisy. A hypocrisy that enables them to do what they want while trying to deny those same rights to others.

Also, if Mexican "colonization" were in any way similar to recent Israeli history, Mexican settlers would be buying up all our land and kicking us off it, not working in grueling jobs for shitty wages while gradually working their way up the food chain.

Posted by keshmeshi | May 9, 2007 3:57 PM
31
Being blunt hurts, but it hurts because it finally reaches what was otherwise unreachable: your conscious mind.

Does it really? Boy, being blunt hasn't taught you a fucking thing, has it?

I come on here and strafe people because I get bored and work and it amuses me to knock holes in people's arguments. But nobody's going to stop driving their car just because I point out that doing so might go against their convictions around the war or whatever. That’s not how people work—pro-life, pro-choice, vegan, Democrat, Republican, whatever. People only ever operate from their own personal/emotional bottom line.

Tell you what, slick. You take that megaphone and go yell at those pro-lifers. Let me know how many minds you change.

Posted by Judah | May 9, 2007 4:02 PM
32

Maybe the girl was picketting the next day because she regretted her decision? Who wants to bet that she told her mother what she did the previous day and her new found devotion? Not me.

Anti-choice groups tell people like this idiot girl that it's not their fault. That it's some bad doctor or the fact that it's legal. Which is ridiculous. I mean if you really think abortion is murder, then you would blame the person who paid and asked for the abortion. But they can't, because who wants to listen to someone who says "you're a murderer."

I am completely pro-choice, but here's what I say to that girl and others like her: you're the murderer.

Posted by D. | May 9, 2007 4:26 PM
33

Wow, I wasn't even talking to you, Judah.

Posted by Gomez | May 9, 2007 4:46 PM
34

If I stopped driving my car, I would still be using electricity which goes against my environmental stance. If completely stopped using electricity, I would still be purchasing food from markets that use it in order to keep their food fresh, and that use trucks in order to ship the food to the market. I guess since I could eliminate every single modern aspect of my life, and still be a hypocrite, everyone else is free to live as many contradictions as possible, with no repercussions. Because, I certainly have no right to call them on their bullshit. Because of my lamp.

You're not a dick, Judah, you're just an idiot.

Posted by Chris | May 9, 2007 4:46 PM
35

@21, 25, & 30
I think it's more important to focus on what the group is stating about themselves with the label than what one may potentially infer about the other side; their motivation for their stance is a more significant factor than what the label implies about their opponents. And while it may be fun to shout about hypocrisy if a self-proclaimed pro-lifer supports a war, or capital punishment, or eating meat, it doesn't add anything to the discussion at hand.

It's just that while something like referring to a fetus as a fetus instead of a baby actually makes a relevant point (that, medically speaking, it's not a baby until it's born), referring to pro-lifers as 'anti-choice' is just misrepresentative rhetoric. They're not lying awake at night, fretting that people are choosing. They don't put up billboards decrying making decisions.

Like I said, it just bugs me. I personally make the distinction. It's obviously up to you whether you do the same.

Posted by Ben | May 9, 2007 5:05 PM
36

I'm as impressed as I am annoyed by the clinics' kindness towards these women. Frankly, I think they should tell these women what unbelievably shitty human beings they are, pretending they're somehow so much better than those rabble who don't deserve the same rights they do. Their sympathy and assistance can only be used against them.

Posted by tsm | May 9, 2007 8:54 PM
37

You've got to hand it to the GOP for cornering the market on the whole Abortion thing. They could give a damn about the unborn, but it's a great way to rally the simple-minded, and to get them to vote.

They understand all too well a basic fact of life: Everybody loves babies, but most people don't like kids. It gives them cover to go after the dual goals of "saving the unborn" and being cheap as hell about any sort of social service for kids.

And it doesn't hurt that protesting abortions gives a lot of sexually repressed people a chance to feel morally superior to women that they consider to be "whores"

The dirty little secret of it all is this: Abortion has been with us since the first woman got pregnant, and it will be with us until the last woman gives birth. The only thing outlawing abortion will do is clean up the statistics, and sweep everything under the rug.

But since most Americans are sloppy housekeepers, that might just be OK with them.

Posted by Aborto | May 9, 2007 9:00 PM
38

A friend used to be an anti-abortion picketer. He was a kid, even a teenager, but it was just what the family did, just like some of use went to zoos or went hunting. Young kids are not in a position to think about the consequences of their actions (maybe part of why we try to shelter them from poisonous ideas), and so it can happen that you grow up accepting an idea without ever really thinking about whether it's right.

Until something happens. Maybe a friend gets shot by accident, you see a diseased animal lolling dull-eyed in a cage, or you suddenly need an abortion. Then you suddenly reevaluate these things you never thought about.

Going *back* to protest... well, I'd say that has more to do with the degree of control parents have over their kids' lives. But ideas and habits don't change overnight, even when they have good reason to.

Posted by peridot | May 9, 2007 9:55 PM
39

Maybe she was doing it because her parents didn't know she had had been pregnant, and she thought that by protesting it would keep them from suspecting anything.

Posted by catalina vel-duray | May 9, 2007 10:07 PM
40

@34

Yeah, that was some hard-core freshman year analysis. You sure showed me. I'm particularly impressed by the idea that women who have abortions they don't believe in experience "no repercussions" just because nobody else finds out about it.

Talk to me after you graduate. It might not be a complete waste of my time by then.

And Gomez: Whatever. Point stands.

Posted by Judah | May 9, 2007 10:22 PM
41

I think Judah is the first genuine internet troll the Slog's had in a while, if not ever. Sure, there's been all those random, anonymous sock puppet trolls, but a genuine troll is a catch-all when it comes to flaming as many people as possible over as many things as possible. I must say his effort so far has been prolific.

Posted by Gomez | May 9, 2007 10:30 PM
42

Yeah Gomez, because you're hard at work trying to affect meaningful change in how people think. Nobody would ever mistake your efforts for just going around fucking with people.

Least I'm up front about it, spud.

Posted by Judah | May 10, 2007 12:43 AM
43

Judah, what is your motive for visiting a message board and ripping into people? What do you get out of it? (And try to resist the urge to insult me in the process of answering these questions)

Posted by Joe_x | May 10, 2007 5:01 AM
44

I don't just come here and rip into people. There was a conversation about transportation planning a while back that got down to numbers and ideas after a while. But go back and read the beginning of this comment string: This is the height of hypocrisy and denial! To which my response is, you've gotta be fucking kidding me. That's not remotely the height of hypocrisy and denial and the only time anyone feels free to direct such a claim at a group of people is when it doesn't reflect on them personally, or anyone they feel genuine allegiance to.

It's not that I have any particular sympathy for pro-lifers who get abortions. I don't. But the hypocrisy they're engaging in is, on the scale of things, not that exotic. The only reason it stands out so strongly to Stranger readers is because most of y'all operate at a wide remove from opinions that differ significantly from your own.

I find the combination of willful ignorance and chauvinism extremely provocative. I have a job that requires me to take frequent short breaks and it amuses me to take shots at people who are far too caught up in their own perspective. Simple as that, really.

Posted by Judah | May 10, 2007 7:52 AM
45

Judah is fig jam.

Posted by Soupytwist | May 10, 2007 2:46 PM
46

Judah,

You should dget day buppy! Dare vrendly an day mmm make good gompanions.

Posted by Teeven Hmith | May 10, 2007 3:03 PM
47

Better fig jam than pearl jam, yo.

Posted by Judah | May 10, 2007 4:58 PM
48

Would everyone who does not possess a uterus please shut the hell up about abortion. How are you qualified to have an opinion about it?

Posted by Kaurifish | May 10, 2007 5:20 PM
49

This story just encapsulates everything that's wrong with the anti-abortionists tactics. It really isn't about the girl, it's about her mother. The woman clearly wants the abortions not to happen. And what does she do? Let's leave aside the fact that she's trying to rule the lives of the women in probably horrific circumstances she knows nothing about. In her own home, that pro-lifer has completely screwed up the sex ed, her own child doesn't know how to use contraception, or perhaps was raised too timid to even insist boys use condoms. Maybe the girl was raped and was too ashamed to tell her own mother about it. The mother has, in her own home, created a situation where an unplanned pregnancy happened, and where a teenager felt that it was better to kill her baby - and that's how she regards abortion, that's how she's raised - than to go through the very public experience of out-of-wedlock pregnancy and birth. And clearly the girl didn't feel her mother would concider own grandchild enough of a God's gift to provide it with full care and support, regardless of how it was conceived.

Of course, if that pro-lifer got her way and the legal, safe, professional clinics had been abolished, her daughter might be dead now. Irony go!

Posted by Katherine | May 11, 2007 6:19 AM
50

Anyone else spotted the misogyny involved in these "pro-lifers" beliefs? They're sitting there, in the waiting room, calling the other women there whores, for chrissake. It is not, and never will be genuinely about "unborn babies" or whatever. If it were, they would support contraception. Really, it is about misogyny, particularly when it comes to the sexually active.

That's why these people can have abortions, and yet not believe in them. Because they're not "whores" like the others, so it's ok in their minds. To them, the sin of abortion isn't the "baby killing" or whatever they say, it's that a woman got away with being promiscious. Once they've taken care of that, then they're golden.

It's the same reason many people are pro-life but would allow a rape exception. Then, the woman seeking abortion is a "good girl." If they genuinely gave a shit about a fetus, it wouldn't matter the circumstances that caused it's existence.

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Veteran actor William Franklyn, known for voicing the 1960s Schweppes TV adverts, dies aged 81...

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Veteran actor William Franklyn, known for voicing the 1960s Schweppes TV adverts, dies aged 81...

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Social networking site MySpace is to block users from uploading copyrighted music to its pages...

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