It's a critical distinction that seems to be lost on everyone, including the priests.

Main Entry: cel·i·ba·cy

Pronunciation: 'se-l&-b&-sE

Function: noun

1 : the state of not being married

2 a : abstention from sexual intercourse b : abstention by vow from marriage


Main Entry: chas·ti·ty

Pronunciation: 'chas-t&-tE

Function: noun

1 : the quality or state of being chaste : as a : abstention from unlawful sexual intercourse b : abstention from all sexual intercourse c : purity in conduct and intention d : restraint and simplicity in design or expression

2 : personal integrity

Priests don't vow not to sin. They vow not to get married. Sex outside of marriage may be a sin, but they don't vow not to do it.

Since the church assumes we're all born in sin, you can't prevent someone from sinning and you can't vow not to sin -- the damage has been done. The vow would be impossible to fulfill. Merely stating that you haven't sinned is a sin because you'd be lying.

Nuns do take a vow of Chastity, as I understand it. In my mind this is blatant sexism, but hey...what do you want from an 800-year old superstious cult of patriarchal authoritarian freaks? Logic? Reason? Understanding?

Well, you'll get none of it! And you'll like it all the same!

Good luck in your spiritual journey.

:-)

-Tacoma
"I don't want no commies in my car! And no Christians, neither!" Bud, Repo Man, Harry Dean Stanton

You are right to post modern dictionary definitions of these words to clear up confusion about their definitions. But, in this context, I think it's more important to understand the church's definitions of the words Celibacy and Chastity rather than our more modern usages. After all, the people who take these vows are very clear on their meanings -- at least I hope they are.

Over the years Celibacy and Chastity have come to mean very similiar if not the same things. This is not because the church changed their definitions, but rather because the words have been confused with one another by us, the users of the English language.

As Gloria said, "If the church considers sexual relations without marriage a sin, then isn't a vow of celibacy essentially a vow of chastity?" In a logical mind, of course these things would be the same, or at least similar enough that the distinction would be minor.

However, we're not dealing with logic. We're dealing with the church, and to the church, the difference between vowing not to get married and vowing not to have sex are two different things.

Dan, your updates are getting better every time... I can't wait to see Father Hogan!

Not to mention "Oliver Twist," for heaven's sake! And there's just something vaguely rude about "Martin Chuzzlewit," too...

are you catholic? for catholics (the group in question here), 'celibacy' is no sexual acts ever (including masturbation). marriage is obviously assumed to be included here, as that is the only place (technically speaking) where sexual gratification is not a sin.

whereas 'chastity' is no sex/marriage with others. the jesuits who educated me (who are not also priests) pointed out that they take a vow of "poverty, chastity and obedience" (...and *not* celibacy, a key differentiator here, as it gives them the green light to beat off. which struck me as odd, given the bible says no-wanky -- but the jesuits are more progressive thinkers than many catholics/xtians). jesuit brothers don't marry or have gf/bf and live together in a dorm-style residence usually, where they drink lots of beer and no doubt hide lots of porn under their bunks.