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RSS icon Comments on Newsweek on Transgenderism

1

i also thought it interesting that the majority of the people featured in the photos were of latino background...is that typically an ethnic group with higher than "normal" transgendered people?

Posted by ddv | May 14, 2007 3:43 PM
2

I think it's because, right now, it's mostly the hyperfeminine transgendered women who transition. The others tend to go through life presenting as men because it really does scramble your entire life (relationships, family, work, etc) to transition. It's also very difficult to pass -- our brains are wired to categorize very subtle facial features as "male" or "female." Hyperfeminine visual cues like makeup, big boobs, and girly clothing help.

Posted by jamier | May 14, 2007 3:56 PM
3

There's an interesting blog by Christine Daniels, formerly Mike Penner, who is a sportswriter for the LA Times.

Anyway, she had a post that covers her take on makeup/dresses/etc. issue.

Posted by no one in particular | May 14, 2007 4:39 PM
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I haven't read the entire article, but the excerpt you have here doesn't indicate that frilly dresses are a biological truth. It just says (paraphrasing): "He looks like a girl because he's wearing a dress". Girls wear dresses 99% more often than boys do, hence the signifer that this person "seems like a girl."

I, too, have always wondered why transwomen don't just wear plain clothes, but hyperfeminine clothes. At the same time, lots of lesbians won't wear dresses. It's probably just a cultural thing.

Posted by truth | May 14, 2007 4:54 PM
5

As more and more clothing and behavior becomes unisex it will be interesting to see what happens to the concept of "trans". It is already an interesting topic of theoretical analysis.

For example we would immediately identify a man in a dress as transgendered and many would see a girl who plays with GI Joes as exhibiting "gender confusion". However we don't do the same for a women in jeans and a t-shirt. By the same token is it not equally trans for a woman to play sports, or a man to be a stay at home dad.

Personally I think the hyperfemine and conversely hyper masculine appearance of many in the trans community is a reaction to the fact that it is the only way to truly be trans.

Posted by Giffy | May 14, 2007 5:14 PM
6

No one: That is an interesting post. Thanks for the link.

Posted by ECB | May 14, 2007 5:15 PM
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I think a lot of the hyperactive transwomen are reacting to the release of the restraints that had been put on them for most of their early lives. Combine that with lives in which they had been deprived of normal female socialization, so they have no real sense of how to dress or carry themselves, and you have the makings of an M to F Tammy Faye.

For what it's worth, only a few transwomen are hyperfeminine. They stand out, though, so you all notice them. The rest of us blend in a lot better so you don't even see us. Guaranteed.

Posted by Sachi | May 14, 2007 5:27 PM
8

Interesting points that Ms Daniels makes. The only thing I would respond (not that she is reading) is that the problem with hyperfeminity and passing is that it doesn't work for passing. Every time I see a woman all femmed up anytime other than Friday or Saturday night, I assume it's a tranny. Of course, I live on the hill, so that clearly makes a difference, because I was just in Miami, and there were a lot of gold-wearing older femmed up women that were bio.

Posted by Tiz | May 14, 2007 5:42 PM
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There may be some different definitions at play here too . . . certainly some transwomen need to work harder to either hid masculine "tells" or to show more female cues. For example, if a transwoman has a fairly bony face, she can soften it with her hairstyle or carefully done makeup. A "natal" woman could have a butch cut and wear no makeup and still look more feminine than the transwoman. The transwoman could do everything tastefully yet could be accused of being hyperfeminine -- yet it would be *necessary* in her world, to give her a chance to appear reasonably female to others.

Posted by Sachi | May 14, 2007 5:55 PM
10

Maybe I'm missing something, but if we can't talk about "social" gender cues, like femininity, what are we talking about here? Being transgender is not about sexual orientation, and if it's not about being feminine-- or adopting social cues from the opposite sex-- what is it about? What makes them "women" at all? What does it mean to be a woman in this case? What's left as biological "female" characteristics if you don't have the sex organs or follow the "social" cues? Only things you would probably find more offensive-- I don't know, they're overly emotional and can't drive? If you believe transgenderism is biological, then you must accept that there is at least a biological imperative to want to adopt "social" feminine characteristics. In fact, the feminine social cues are precisely what define the children in the article as transgender. You can't have it both ways. If you want to argue that all femininity is social, then it seems to be that you're going a long way towards arguing that transgenderism is not biological but social too.

Posted by Mr Me | May 14, 2007 8:01 PM
11

There's a lot more to being a woman (or man) than the genitals, Mr. Me. Transpeople like to say that sex is your genitals; gender is your brain. The true seat of who you are as a person is in your brain, your consciousness of who you are. However it is that you recognize that you are a man or a woman, it comes from how you think about yourself. Most of the time your self-perception of gender aligns with your body; sometimes it does not. And when that happens, the only solution is to change the body to match the brain.

As for what it means to be a woman? Every woman, whether raised as female from day one or not, develops her own sense of her self. (So does every man, for that matter.) It's complex. It's not only socialization and living with a physical body, it's self-image. It's a reaction to everything in life!

By the way, the cause of gender dysphoria likely is biological, but I reject your conclusion that there is a *necessary* desire to want to fit in with female social standards. It's true that social leanings are often a *clue* that a person is trans, but they are not necessary or absolute. I know quite a few transwomen who don't bother with feminine stuff at all.

Posted by Sachi | May 14, 2007 9:41 PM
12

An additional comment -- it can be infernally hard for transpeople to tell at times if they are "in fact" trans, because it's such a hard thing to admit to one's self. We can fight against it, come up with excuses and rationalizations, pretend to be crossdressers, hide out in the army, or do all sorts of stuff to avoid admitting the truth to ourselves. To make it harder, this is a condition that must be self-diagnosed. No therapist can do it. In my experience, having seen many people go through this, there is only one sure way for anyone to tell if he or she is trans: to start a course of hormone therapy. If that person feels that the goddess has just blessed her (or him) and that she never ever wants to stop taking that life-giving pill (or shot, or patch, or whatever), then you had best admit it to yourself, because going back will be no fun.

Posted by Sachi | May 14, 2007 9:50 PM
13

Why would a man want a vagina and set of tits without the cultural associations that go with them? Biology in and of itself is meaningless. These men crave femininity and all of its connotations - beauty, vulnerability, nurturance, warmth.

If you view femininity (or masculinity, for that matter) as something that is forced upon you by an unjust society, as it seems that you do, Erica, I suppose it's hard to imagine why anyone would yearn for it.

Personally , I think there is much to be envied in being a feminine woman. When I was just a pup, some gay friends took me on a field trip to the Eagle, where I got a taste of what it's like to be the object of masculine lust, an experience that feminine women take for granted. I felt an amazing sense of power over these men in their libidinous trance. Femininity means that you have the goods, and with that comes power along with trappings.

Posted by Sean | May 14, 2007 11:54 PM
14

The media is invested in supporting the dominant paradigm of socially sanctioned gender expression and roles, and the assumption that everyone is straight. I'm a transwoman and ex-firefighter who is now in welding school. I have met plenty of TS women who are butch dykes like myself and others who are fems [lesbian and straight]. I went through a hyper fem stage and quickly grew out of that after I came out. Women have the advantage of many choices of what they wear, the use make-up or not, and long hair or not. In order for men to obtain and hold onto power, prestige and superior pay they often give up their freedom to choose. Don't forget the enormous power of conformity and peer pressure. It makes me sad to see my granddaughter having to conform to feminine stereotypes and the associated "fashion" requirements of her peer groups.

Posted by Julia | May 15, 2007 12:48 AM
15

I was a biological male but never identified as a man, this distinction is important. Generally speaking, transwomen are not "men" seeking to possess female parts; their gender identity is already that of woman and they are seeking to change their bodies to match their internal sense of self. The same idea goes for transmen on their path of transition. Gender expression is the way humans choose to dress, style their hair, wear make-up and jewelry or not, and covers a wide range of options for women and men.

Biological sex, gender identity, gender expression and sexual orientation are all independent variables.

Posted by Julia | May 15, 2007 1:14 AM
16

Sean, you have it backwards. For a transperson, the body is the falsehood. Transwomen are not "men" "craving femininity" etc . . . they are women who desire to get their bodies in line with their brain, so they can live lives without an internal conflict that most people seemingly can't grasp. It has NOTHING to do with what's outside of us. It has EVERYTHING to do with what is INSIDE of us.

And of course, the same is true (but 180º the other way) for transmen.

Posted by Sachi | May 15, 2007 5:58 AM
17

Here's a story: I look butch, have very short hair, and am a lesbian. A young kid, around 3, was in his mother's arms and pointed at me. "Momma, what's that?" he asked. It was amazing that even at that young age kids want to pidgeon-hole people as men or women. Not sure why. But I wish all transmen and -women the best of luck in fulfilling who you really are. And thanks to all of you above for your clear and helpful comments.

Posted by Stephanie | May 15, 2007 6:52 AM
18

Transsexual seems pretty easy to understand. A person, like commentators have said, who has a conflict between their sense of self and the physical self that they desire to remedy.

What I find much more interesting are the so-called trasngendered people. Those who have no desire to change their physical selfs, but who adopt 'opposite' gender expression. This is were we get into looking at what exactly is it that makes someone masculine of feminine.

I have also met people who argue, like some people do about bisexuality, that transgendered is a myth. They contend all transpeople want to be fully transsexual, but can't admit to them selves.

Personally it seems to me that the psychological interplay between the biological, cultural, and behavioral parts of our self can produce a continuum of responses that should generally be recognized as valid, whether it is the trans act of a man who loves ballet, or a women who undergoes surgery to acquire male genitalia.

Posted by Giffy | May 15, 2007 8:23 AM
19

Absolutely right, Giffy. There is definitely a wide variation about how trans-ness is expressed. Some people have a pretty intense case of gender dysphoria; others do not. Some kids know their brain gender doesn't match their body at the age of 2 or 3 and simply cannot live as anything but their brain gender without an immense struggle. Others of us can make do for a long while.

To go farther, there are choices to make on the surgical end as well. Some people who consider themselves transsexual do NOT get genital surgery. (Especially transmen - the bottom surgery isn't all that hot yet.) But even some transwomen can forego genital surgery and still be female to all the world, with some discretion of course! We call those women "non-ops."

The reason these choices can work is that many people find that the hormone treatments and living your true life is enough to end your dysphoria. If you no longer have a problem, then genitals don't matter much any more.

Posted by Sachi | May 15, 2007 8:36 AM
20

Oh, and many people who do things such as cross-dress or express feminine behavior do not have gender dysphoria at all. There are a lot of reasons why people can engage in those acts, outside of being transsexual. Human sexuality/gender/behavior/fun is hugely varied!

Posted by Sachi | May 15, 2007 8:40 AM
21

There's also a significant percentage of the population who consider themselves intersexed, and who resent being expected to choose one or the other. I have several friends who consider themselves intersexed.

For myself, I will admit that until a few years ago, I had all the stereotypical beliefs about transfolk (mostly that it was always big ugly guys changing into big ugly embarrassingly girly women, because that was what I saw amongst the engineers I worked with at Boeing). Then I sang for a season with the Seattle Lesbian and Gay Chorus, which usually has quite a few transfolk among the members. I had to change all my preconceived notions when I realized that superhot guy in the baritone section I'd been panting over had been a bio-woman up until a couple years ago.

It's funny how one's own sexual attraction can change those kinds of misconceptions. ;-)

Posted by Geni | May 15, 2007 10:56 AM
22

So is Jona in the quoted story transgendered, or just a cross-dresser?

Posted by Mr Me | May 15, 2007 11:52 AM
23

Jona is almost surely transsexual, not "just" a crossdresser. (There's no scale involved here, so the word "just" isn't accurate.)

Posted by Sachi | May 15, 2007 1:31 PM
24

Out of curiosity, Erica... Are you getting these ideas about the uber feminine projecting transsexual women based upon the ones you see out at night on Capitol Hill doing the club hopping thing? I think there is kind of an expectation that people are going to dress up a little differently in those kinds of situations rather than say... Monday morning at the office, or after work doing the grocery shopping. That adds a little context to someone's presentation, IMO.

Posted by Tiffany | May 15, 2007 1:47 PM
25

Thanks Sachi, I think we can agree that it a shame we aren't more continuum based as opposed to category based in how we conceptualize the world.

One theory I have heard argues that much of the so called "problems" of gender and sexual orientation issues come not from within but from without. Meaning hat we all are who we are inside in terms of our likes/dislikes, turn-ons/turn-offs. Were the problem comes in is when we feel that we need to fit into categories created by society such as gay/straight, trans/nontrans.

The lack of compliance coupled with a belief that we need to fit a category to "know who we are" creates an identity crisis that can be devastating to a physche. Unfortunately often the very people marginalized by categories seek to reinforce them by excluding those that don't fit into their understanding of say what it means to be gay, or trans, or whatever.

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