Comments on What is Wrong With People that Climb Mountains?
There really is no justification for leaving someone. Who fucking cares if have to turn back. Even if it puts you at risk you do it. If the military can have the motto "leave no man behind" I think a bunch of mountain climbers can handle it to.
Some people are dumb.
I have absolutely zero pity those stupid fucks who die whilst mountain climbing. All of the millions we spend on search and rescue should be funneled into more worthwile causes. Just put a sign at the bottom reading, climb at your own risk. If you need help, TOO FUCKING BAD!!! Seriously, there aren't enough ways to die in this world? If you don't want to die frozen and alone, don't go climb a fucking mountain!! I do feel bad for the kid though. Hopefully this incident will make him smart enough to stay off of mountains for the rest of his life.
The Atrios solution, via Peter Singer: Post-birth abortion of the kid. No kid, no problem. Aside from "Mom's" lingering, horrible death.
They should have dragged the kid along with them.
Also awaiting post-birth abortions:
The mothers of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, Michael Medved, Glenn Beck, Nancy Grace, the current crop of Republican presidential candidates and whoever created those Head-On commercials.
slavoj žižek makes the point that no longer are children told "you have to visit your grandmother today," instead they are told "you don't have to visit your grandmother today, but you do know that she'd really like to see you." in a similar fashion this orphaned child was not told "your mother is going to climb mount everest" but was instead told "your mother doesn't have to climb mount everest, but you do know that she'd really like to climb mount everest."
Giffy, you don't know what you're talking about. At that altitude, with so little oxygen, you risk your own life every minute you stay with someone who you cannot help. Why should all three of them die just because one of them made a fatal error in judgment? Yes, it's horribly tragic, but what you advocate would have been worse...all three would have died.
Wow. Why would you give your kid a say in that decision knowing that there is a reasonable chance that you could die or be seriously injured and that he would feel responsible? Wow...
SERIOUSLY. There's a reason nothing lives at those altitudes. What a fucking waste. Mountain climbing: evolution in action.
Giffy: really? If she was going to die anyway, and it's going to put your own life at risk? Fuck that, leave her. It was her choice to climb the mountain without oxygen, not yours.
The kid's guilt trip is full-on BS. I'm with Dan on that. See the Zizek interview about "post-modern tolerance" referenced @7. Too many 'wafty' people offering 'choices' to children that aren't appropriate in the slightest.
However leaving someone on a mountain, when they are clearly going to die? ..that's sometimes how it has to go. That's the deal when you are climbing a mountain. Sometimes you will just fucking die. There's compassion, then there's survival. In the same situation you would choose survival over dying along with a dying woman just to keep her company.
It's a catch 22.
If the kid said no, don't climb Everest, he'd most likely feel guilty because he deprived his mom from taking her dream climb.
At least this way he didn't deprive her of something she really, really wanted to do.
He'll problably grow up to be a mountain climber and completely understand his mom's logic.
Sometimes, Dan, you're wrong. This is not one of those times. The more I read about mountain climbers, the more I dislike them, and think their rights to damage the lives of those around them should be abridged.
She asked him if she should go, but she begged them not to leave her there.
Litter and it will hurt.
It seems that none of the readers or commentators has much of an interest in climbing, much less climbing 8000 meter peaks. The parents were both mountaineers. The skills needed, the fitness needed and the dedication needed is monumental. At 11 years old, it's safe to assume their son has been off into the mountains with the parents numerous times and knew to an extent what kind of toil it is to climb the Fourteeners of Colorado. Everest is over twice the height of Colorado's famous peaks. Big mountain climbing is serious stuff. At eleven the kid knows about death, however even at 30 how many appreciate life? Climbing big mountains is a pursuit few will understand, and in the rarified air on Everest the athletes are on a knife's edge. One false move and the mountain ends up claiming another. The father lost his purchase and lost his life. The mother did not come down to the next camp, and instead bivouacked overnight... This was her undoing, and the climbers who found her the next day found a dead person who could still talk. That's a hard pill to take. To those who pursue all that life has to offer end up dancing with death. Mountaineering is one of those pursuits.
The question asked is “how’s the kid doing?” The answer is simple: terrible. Regardless of the relationship a child has with their parent, once the parent dies, the child will miss them terribly. This holds true for everyone regardless of age. To lose both parents is devastating. I can only hope that this child has a strong family and friend support structure. I hope he knows that the outcome is not in any way his fault. His parents pursued a tremendous goal and paid with their lives. This was their decision. They were the ones taking the footsteps up and down. They were the ones who made the many small mistakes that added up and slammed the doors of safe passage closed.
I simply can't wait for the first tranny to climb Mt. Everest. That should make Dan's head explode from the pure combination of shit other people do that he refuses to understand and apparently never will.
Mountaineers are selfish A-Holes.Could care less what happens to them on their narcissistic escapades.Wish they'd spare making us pay for their rescues.
I can understand the allure of mountain climbing. Or hang gliding. Or sailing a small wooden boat across the pacific, solo.
But what is fucked up is that both parents felt the allure of their dangerous hobby was more important than staying alive long enough to raise the child they gave birth too. What is fucked up is the mother asking an 11 year old child permission to go on the climb in some misguided attempt to absolve herself of responsibility in case anything went wrong. What, like an 11 year old kid would have the nads to say "No, don't go."? Or even understand the gravity of the question?
My best friend has been at base camp at Everest for the last month. He taught me to climb. Only those in good enough shape, mentally and physically, can attempt Everest. Most never make the summit. Climbing without oxygen is just plain crazy. Having your child decide if you climb or not is crazier.
The couple took a risk and they knew they may not survive. Hopefully their son will survive and realize that is wasn't his fault.
As for the climbers that left her, it is a well known fact in the climbing world that this kind of thing happens on Everest, and to try to rescue someone is a suicide mission... They made the right choice, to be alive.
kris' post @17 is the glorified fluff that mountain climbers use to justify their hobby.
"the rarified air on Everest the athletes are on a knife's edge."
How very romantic. But it doesn't hide their hubris. I've never held these Everest climbers in any type of high regard. In fact, I view them as idiots--especially when they come back without noses or fingers, and lower IQ points due to the lack of oxygen their proud brains suffered.
Right on JuJu -- I couldn't make it all the way through Kris' treatise since it's such a load of crap, but my response would be "whatever". At least maybe the kid got a decent Life Insurance payout -- sadly, in the long run he may be better off without those useless parents anyway...
Anyonre remember those 3 that died on MT Hood last year?? I'll never forget listening to the teary wife talking about how her kids were ALL that her husband lived for and thinking "uh, no -- if that was the case, he wouldn't have been up on that fucking mountain in the middle of winter..."
To risk leaving a kid with no parents? For nothing...? Nothing! A whim. So fucked up.
Once you have a child you realize how little anyone else will be able to care, or care for, if there is no parent.
bastards.
Wait a second here. The parents could have told the kid they were going to drive to the grocery store and asked him if he wanted to go along. He says no thanks, he's watching Cartoon Network, and off they go. Both are killed by a drunk driver on the way home.
Someone tell me how that's any different.
Stigmatizing people who do things differently from us is using a very, very broad brush with which to paint the world. Should parents of children be wrapped in cotton wool to ensure they cannot possibly die until their offspring come of age?
We don't live in a risk-free world. Properly done, mountaineering is only slightly more dangerous than bicycle commuting. I don't think *most* reasonable people would find it horrifying that both parents of a young child ride bicycles to work.
Some folks appear to think that mountaineering is only done for the thrill of it. Having known many, many serious mountaineers in my day, I tend to disagree. Sure, there are adrenaline junkies and crazy bastards, and Everest has more than its share, by far - but they are not in the majority of climbers.
Oh, and #18 - a tranny HAS climbed Everest, or at least some of the other major Himalayan peaks. I can't remember the person's name, but I do remember a story about it awhile back.
I'm with Geni on this one. Waaaaay more people die every day in car crashes in this country every year than die climbing mountains. For those of you pissing and moaning about the "millions" spent on rescues, I recommend looking up some actual hard data on that. Like Outside magazine did earlier this year. They found the S&R data from Oregon that showed that, for example, the state of Oregon rescues mountaineers about as often as they rescue mushroom pickers.
In 2005, 3.4 percent of Oregon S&R rescue missions were for climbers, and 3.0 percent were for fungi foragers. I actually called Washington state S&R coordinator Chris Long for a post over on Seattlest, and he confirmed our suspicions. "Far more of our rescues involve hunters and ATV/snowmobile riders."
Some other stuff you likely don't know, throwing rocks from your own glass house: Anyone who climbs Everest has to pay money into a fund that not only helps in the event a rescue is mounted (which is pretty rare for the reasons others have already pointed out), but also goes to helping support the local sherpa community. Also, most rescue missions in this country that end up involving a helicopter (with the exception of the Kim family rescue, where James Kim's father paid for it) do so with time and equipment donated by the military that goes towards training time for their pilots. What the media does to come up with their obscene figures for rescue costs is tell you what it would cost if that time and equipment weren't volunteered. Oh, and speaking of volunteers, generally 90-100% of S&R people are volunteer workforces for which no-one pays any taxes.
Your auto insurance premiums, on the other hand, keep going up every year because of all those damn cars everyone insists on driving and crashing into each other. Are you going to also condemn deep-sea fishermen who spend weeks at the time risking their lives at sea who also have wives and children at home? Because this article suggests that on average 68 people die each year doing that, which is definitely higher than the number of high-altitude mountaineers who die climbing. (And don't tell me it's different when one is an occupation and one is recreation--either way your dealing with risk-taking behavior when you have a family back home.)
Hello everyone, wanna be part of some kind of community, possible here? anyone here?
Hello everyone, wanna be part of some kind of community, possible here? anyone here?
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