« Prev

Slog

Next »

Eternal Mammy

Florida and James:
amos9495_0014.jpg
In the ’70s TV show Good Times Florida was played by Esther Rolle and James by John Amos; both were talented actors, and both loathed Jimmie Walker, the man who played J.J., Florida and Amos’s eldest son. J.J. became the star of the show because he was a buffoon. The youngest child, Micheal, was a genius and progressive; the sister, Thelma, was practical and beautiful; the eldest son was an illiterate idiot. But the J.J. matter is for another post (I will one day post about meeting Jimmie Walker in a bar in Harare, Zimbabwe. He was in the country filming Going Bananas, and it was instantly evident to me and all the rest who were there that no line existed between the personality of Jimmie Walker and his stupid TV character J.J.)

What I want to point out for now is that in the picture John Amos ( James) is 34 and Esther Rolle (Florida) is 53. Meaning Esther is old enough to be John’s mother, yet on Good Times they are husband and wife, not mother and son. Now, what does this mean? Here is my answer: The role Esther actually played had its essence in the eternal mammy; as for John, it was the “buck nigger”—remember the role John played in Roots, a recalcitrant African, Kunta Kinte, who was emasculated by an axe and broken by a whip.

When the producers of the show were presented with a script that imaged a married black couple, instead of drawing the characters directly from life, they drew them from myth. The myth of Uncle Tom married to the myth of mammy was not possible because Uncle Tom is asexual (how could they have kids?), and so the producers gave up and picked a buck as the one who fucked mammy and made all of these kids happen. The marriage, however, did not last long. The buck was out of the show after two seasons. The buck could not be domesticated (in real life and in the show) and so it was left to mammy to bring up the two smart kids and the one dumb kid.

Comments (45)

1

Hmmm, John Amos was really much better in The West Wing as the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. Oh, West Wing, a fictional White House that is so much better than the real one.

Posted by Just Me | April 23, 2007 1:37 PM
2

Charles, even if the producers drew their characters from myth not real life (and I can buy that), I don't see how this is an answer to your earlier question of why the actor playing James was so much older than the actress playing Florida. How are the two things related?

Without knowing the specifics of the situation, good old fashioned sexism seems as good an explanation as any of why the couple was allowed to be so age-inappropriate.

Posted by Ben | April 23, 2007 1:37 PM
3

@2, you got it backwards. Florida was way older than James.

Posted by Laurel | April 23, 2007 1:41 PM
4

Man you forgot Winona and her adopted daughter Penny ( Im sorry Ms Jackson I AM FOR REAAAAL!)

JJ was unwatchable. I remember the dynamite T shirts back in da day in Philly.

Joh Amos did the conservative black role as Mr Mc Dowell in Coming to America.

Posted by SeMe | April 23, 2007 1:42 PM
5

did you come up with this Charles?

Posted by maria | April 23, 2007 1:42 PM
6

Amos was in Roots AFTER he left Good Times, and he wasn't emasculated; he had his foot chopped off.

Is the age of the actors relevant? What ages were the characters? Can a talented actor not play an older or younger character?

Posted by pox | April 23, 2007 1:43 PM
7

@2: what the fuck does "age-inappropriate" mean in regards to relationships between consenting adults (real or fictional), and who exactly decides what does or does not fall into that category?

Posted by jameyb | April 23, 2007 1:50 PM
8

Temporary Layoffs!

Posted by Sawyer | April 23, 2007 1:54 PM
9

I never noticed the age difference, and I'm guessing hardly anyone else did either.

Actors often play characters who are much younger/older than they are. I'm guessing this had more to do with wanting these particular actors in spite of the age difference, not because of it.

That's not to say the Mammy myth wasn't at play in hiring Florida. She is mammy personified. I just don't think her age is critical.

Posted by Sean | April 23, 2007 1:55 PM
10

I LOOOOVED John Amos on West Wing. I just watched it from beginning to end on dvd. Lots of good things written in that series.

I watched Good Times. I also hated JJ. I loved his sister, she was cool. Penny, oh Penny... and until now I had NO idea that there was that kind of age difference which makes me think rather than using some sort of myth to cast the show they cast it from a very small (at the time) pool of african american actors, or I should say the pool of what the establishment's idea of what acceptable african american actors were at the time.

Just guessing.

So why was JJ so popular? Well, my grandparents, who were racist bigots with both a capital "R" and "B", just LOOOOVED that JJ because he was one of the funny n****rs and not the usual criminal type.

Those were the choices back then. Criminals or clowns.

Posted by monkey | April 23, 2007 1:55 PM
11

Just judging from that photo, Esther Rolle looked unbelievably young for her age. 53? WTF?

Posted by keshmeshi | April 23, 2007 1:59 PM
12

Reading too much into it, dude...they hired really talented actors; so what there was an age difference between the ACTORS....

BUT, I think the same thing happened on The Jeffersons....Isabel Sanford was quite a bit older than Sherman Hensley....

Posted by michael strangeways | April 23, 2007 2:09 PM
13

Easy credit rip-offs

Good Times!

Posted by gt | April 23, 2007 2:10 PM
14

I don't know for sure, but they look like they could be wax figures. Maybe the photo is from Madame Tussauds.

Posted by Leeerker | April 23, 2007 2:12 PM
15

jimmie walker does standup and plays here all the time...

Posted by bing | April 23, 2007 2:25 PM
16

Jimmy Walker is still a buffoon. He escorted Ann Coulter to some TV Land show last week:

http://www.wwtdd.com/post.phtml?pk=2152
http://www.dlisted.com/node/8761

Posted by Lloyd Cooney | April 23, 2007 2:29 PM
17

Charles just HOW do you manage to wake up every morning feeling so intelectually superior yet SO downtrodden? I sure do hope you give The Jeffersons this same type of critique next week!

Posted by Kitty | April 23, 2007 2:34 PM
18

In the original version of The Manchurian Candidate, Angela Lansbury played Laurence Harvey's mother, despite being two years ago.

Most TV "High School Students" are played by actors in their 20s. (Charisma Carpenter was 27 when she played a 16 year old Cordelia on Buffy).

Age has nothing to do with anything when it comes to Hollywood.

Now please dissect CHico and the Man.

Posted by elswinger | April 23, 2007 2:42 PM
19

Good Times.
Any time you meet a payment.
Good Times.
Any time you need a friend.
Good Times.
Any time you're out from under.

Not getting hastled, not getting hustled.
Keepin' your head above water,
Making a wave when you can.

Temporary lay offs.
Good Times.
Easy credit rip offs.
Good Times.
Scratchin' and surviving.
Good Times.
Hangin in a chow line
Good Times.
Ain't we lucky we got 'em
Good Times.

Posted by Sally Struthers Lawnchair | April 23, 2007 2:43 PM
20

#18 I meant "two years older."

Posted by elswinger | April 23, 2007 2:47 PM
21

This sort of overthinking is just lazy. It's what people do when they are trying to be intelectual, but lack the intelect.

It was a TV show, which is by definition ephemeral. The people playing the roles were actors. They were of different ages than their characters. That's about the extent of it.

Posted by Bullshit, thy name is Mudede | April 23, 2007 2:59 PM
22

Charles, why point your pretentious finger towards someone making a living 30 years ago? why not take on the gutter, garbage culture that is hip-hop? An "art form" that makes blacks their own worst enemy.

Posted by help me rhombus | April 23, 2007 3:06 PM
23

I agree with brother Charles. TV fat cats had an image. Just like they have an image now of Latinas being maids. What exactly are some people on this thread saying? That racism and racist stereotypes didnt cross the minds those noble TV exec of the 70's? What world do you fools live ( or lived) in?

With that said, I loved that damn show, I was a wee kid back then, but I had a crush on Penny. I was mad when her mom burned her with that iron.

oh and charisma was 27? damn!

Posted by SeMe | April 23, 2007 3:12 PM
24

#22: I would LOVE to see that discussion. Everything that I've seen (of late) from Charles focuses on what is externally happening to/happened to the black community. What about an exploration/conversation regarding the segments of the black community who negatively contribute to it's cultural imagery as a whole, ie: hip-hop lyrics/image, don't tell/snitch mantra, thug nation, etc. from within. How do we, collectively as a nation, help to shape and present positive role models of ALL ethnicities for our kids, and ourselves.

Posted by second that | April 23, 2007 3:52 PM
25

I hated the JJ character as well. I liked that he was an aspiring artist, but he was such a goddamn caricature it totally blew what could have been a potential really interesting character.

I know, I know... it's TV, but still.

I never realized the age diference in the actors who played parents.

Posted by Dougsf | April 23, 2007 3:55 PM
26

I wonder what John Amos would think of Charles' observation.

Posted by another thought | April 23, 2007 4:00 PM
27

Considering Esther Role and John Amos both quit because of the negative stereotype that Jimmy Walker portrays, I think there feelings were made quite clear.

Posted by elswinger | April 23, 2007 4:07 PM
28

elswinger: I think everyone would agree abou the JJ issue. But do you really think that the producers of that show REALLY gave such consideration to the mother/father roles as Charles suggests?

Posted by another thought | April 23, 2007 4:20 PM
29

It's not unusual for actors to play characters that are much older or younger than their actual age. John Amos was obviously pretty good at it--with a bit of gray added to his hair, he certainly convinced me that he was a man in his mid-40s. Jimmie Walker was also considerably older than the character he played, but didn't fool anyone.


One last thing: John Amos was the center of Good Times. He dominated every scene he appeared in. Once he was gone, the show fell apart.

Posted by J.R. | April 23, 2007 4:24 PM
30

john amos didn't play kunta kinte - levar burton did.

Posted by maxsolomon | April 23, 2007 4:25 PM
31

I am totally stupid, I misread the original post. Stupid me.

@7 given my stupid misreading of the post, I chalked this up to another instance of standard sexist Hollywood casting where older men are often romantically paired with significantly younger women but rarely the reverse is allowed (though apparently Good Times, for all its other faults, bucked this trend). It's like all those horrible sitcoms that pair conventionally attractive wives with fat sloppy husbands. In real life, I totally agree with you that adults of all ages (and body-types) should of course be able to have happy meaningful relationships.

Posted by ben | April 23, 2007 4:25 PM
32

I take anything that Charles says with a grain of salt. I think during the first season, Norman Lear and CBS were daring in that they were doing the first tv show about being black blue collar and barely getting buy financially, while sticking together as a family. It was only when J.J. became the focus of the show (and attracted advertising dollars), that Lear and the rest of the creative team were fired and Good Times became the show Charles is complaining about.

Florida Evans was no Aunt Jemimah. Charles needs to go back and actually watch the show.

Posted by elswinger | April 23, 2007 4:30 PM
33

On "I Love Lucy" the actor who played Fred Mertze was 64 when the show started, Vivian Vance (Ethel) was 42. Is there any underlying conspiracy about that or does this not apply to the whiteys?

Posted by JC | April 23, 2007 4:42 PM
34

Johns Amos was awesome in Beastmaster!

Posted by longball | April 23, 2007 4:56 PM
35

Winonna was the BOMB!

Posted by Mark Mitchell | April 23, 2007 5:14 PM
36

maxsolomon, John Amos played the older Kunta Kinte; LeVar Burton played the younger one. And that was some miscasting, because the two of them look nothing alike.

Posted by litlnemo | April 23, 2007 5:31 PM
37

Wait, wait... so the Reading Rainbow guy was young Kunte Kinte? I never noticed.

Posted by Ed | April 23, 2007 5:41 PM
38

i think it's more a function of "black don't crack". i mean, damn! girlfriend looks pretty good for 53.

for your perpetuating-the-myth theory to hold any water whatsoever, the litmus test would be the age of the CHARACTERS, not the age of the actors playing them. what are you, stupid? i mean, all them words sure sound real smart n' stuff, but the idea they're propping up is pretty f'n dumb, dude.

Posted by brandon | April 23, 2007 6:02 PM
39

Max @ 30 - Levar Burton played young Kunta Kinte, but John Amos played him as a grown man.

Posted by Matt from Denver | April 23, 2007 8:13 PM
40

ben @31: yay! :)

Posted by jameyb | April 23, 2007 9:00 PM
41

Smoke another bowl and then pontificate on the social meaning of Webster and Different Strokes. . Always wondered what the message was in these shows. Dwarfed black
male child raised by white affluents

Posted by JoeBob | April 23, 2007 11:53 PM
42

Fred and Ethyl weren't around 60? James and Florida weren't around 40? In my mind, at the time I watched their shows, I thought that they were what they portrayed as characters. Wow, now I will never believe an actor again. Thank you, Charles. You have really opened my eyes.

Posted by feeling stupid | April 24, 2007 2:09 AM
43

Oy vey....Charlie, please. Your pseudo intellectual grandstanding is getting sooooo old.

Posted by Rotten666 | April 24, 2007 7:41 AM
44

Charles: I love when you write satire like this, and commenters take you seriously and responding as if you wanted you actually believed this over-the-top, pseudo-intellectual crap.

You must be chortling about how you put another one over on them. Good one!

Posted by BobH | April 24, 2007 11:15 AM
45

Charles: I love when you post this kind of satire, and the commenters take you seriously and respond as if you actually believed any of this over-the-top, pseudo-intellectual crap.

You must be chortling about how you put another one over on them. Good one!

Posted by BobH | April 24, 2007 11:16 AM

Comments Closed

In order to combat spam, we are no longer accepting comments on this post (or any post more than 14 days old).