Comments on What He Said

Agreed. They couldn't block DOMA, couldn't get ENDA, have made no progress on Don't Ask, Don't Tell, were worthless at blocking anti-gay politicians and judges, and have just been utterly ineffective. I'd rather give my money to SLDN, GLAAD, or a marriage rights group.

This post infuriates me: not because I think it's wrong but because what else do we do? Who do we support? The throw-away line at the end: Who should get our money?
I have become involved with the local HRC lately, and been to a few of the higher-end dinners and meetings. Aside from feeling that I don't qualify for the income bracket of these meetings (these people are richer than I will ever be), I didn't feel a sense of urgency or movement: I felt like I was at a Shriner's convention.

Dan? Others? Any ideas on who else should get our money? Do we just say screw the donations and volunteer time only? But with who?

I realize this comment comes across as combative; I don't mean it to be but it's scary and disheartening to learn that so many of the gay leaders, columnists and average-joes-on-the-street don't trust (one of?) the largest organizations for gays in the country.

Send all your money to Dan. He'll fix everything.

This from the guy who last year tossed off Ann Coulter, something about her different sense of humor --- Sullivan is grandstanding for points - with the straight world.

By the way, as a republican, just how the hell in the Bush years did you think we were going to fare......did he not endorse Bush????

How is that going now for anybody?

HRC pumped about 100,000. into this state last year in staff and money, it helped send bad R's to pasture. They did the same all over the states; New Hampshire has the first Dem., pro gay legislature in decades because of HRC effort.

Of course to the lofty Sullivan, that is trivia. He had a better strategy to win the anti marriage ballots???, I never read it.

Sullivan need to go to purgatory for a while........longer.

As some people know, HRC is now very strong in Seattle - as a field operation. All to their credit.

Of course with an avowed gay Republican, Sir. Sullivan attacking, they will get more support.

Oh, he goes by gay conservative these days......likes Mitt Romney a lot.

torrentprime @ 2,

I strongly recommend donating to Lambda Legal.

http://www.lambdalegal.org/cgi-bin/iowa/index.html

They have won major court victories for civil unions, marriage equality, anti-discrimination, employment equality, immigration rights, etc and they represent their clients, GLBT people for free. Read all about them on their website and make a donation today.

They are driving the legal movement towards equality.

torrentprime, I listed several organizations above. If you're concerned about Don't Ask, Don't Tell, donate to Soldiers' Legal Defense Network. If you're concerned about media depictions, donate to GLAAD. If you're concerned about marriage, well, there are organizations in every state, and you can always give money to the ACLU, which has a GBLT rights section. The ACLU would be an ideal choice. The right wouldn't hate them so much if they weren't so effective.

the "equality dog". Why is gay culture so damn tacky and who thinks of this crap. Wasted money.

I give to Lambda Legal.

#7 B

Honey, you need some coffee. the doggie is for niece and nephew, kids next door.

Get it? Good marketing, the equality sign creeping into home all over the place.

"Mommie, what does this mean"
And since when is a logo T- shirt a new idea?

And you should absolutely donate to Equal Rights Washington!

They have been invaluable in getting the Anderson-Murray anti-discrimination bill passed last year, and also the Domestic Partnership bill this year. They are also working to defeat anti-gay initiatives here in Washington and towards full marriage equality.

http://equalrightswashington.org/

I donate Lambda Legal and ERW. They are very effective!

Hiring more lawyers is always good. Better than most uses.

Lambda Legal does different stuff than HRC. LL is not a lobbying PAC, while HRC is not a band of lawyers. Who, tell me who, can do it all, with perfect grace and style 100% of the time? Martha that's who, but that ex-jail bird is busy painting pots now. What I see in all this is the mythic Gay community with the luxury and ease of living to tear each other apart. If you don't like what they do (LL, HRC, GLAAD, etc) support those organizations you do like. Gheezuz STOP your bitching and DO SOMETHING.

I don't mean to knock Sullivan -- that is, after all, one asinine stuffed dog.

But upon reading his and his reader's post, it seems like the two of them just saw the episode of "The Sarah Silverman Show" where post-HIV-test (pre-results), she markets herself as the spokeswoman for AIDS for personal gain. It's funny. (And her gay neighbors are the best thing to happen to TV ever).

It also raises a larger issue: We see more of HRC's marketing efforts simply because it has more marketing efforts than just about any other national gay-stuff organization.

HRC's yellow-and-blue equals-sign logo is as ubiquitous as the triangular rainbow sign. It's the homo equivalent of the Golden Arches. And I expect to see it when gay sh!t -- be it from the rear end of Ann Coulter, Tim Hardaway or whoever else -- hits the fan. And I do see it.

Is it a bad thing to turn over the proceeds from stuffed-dog sales to Joe Solomonese and Co. so that they can be aggressive gay spokespeople? Or should we, as Sullivan suggests, measure the volume of HRC's marketing versus the volume of gay-forward votes in crucial elections?

I'm confused. If the HRC is just a fund raising front for the Democrats and they use the same tactics as the Democrats idol BILL CLINTON, then why is just the HRC bad and not the ineffective, manipulative and cowardly party?

It is impossible to say anything negative at blogs (like this one) against the Democrats without stirring the desperate syncophantic passions of their supporters. Do any of you see a problem with cricizing one and not the other?

Yes, i agree with that nimrod Sullivan - the HRC are an enormous black hole for LGBT people to throw their money in to get very little in return.

And that is EXACTLY the same as what we get when we invest in the Democratic Party.

LGBT issues aside - hows that mandate to end the occupation of Iraq going? Hmm?? Approved any additional funding, perhaps hundreds of billions of dollars lately???

Chatting here in my office, mostly gay folks, HRC gets great marks for the last five years when they changed directions completely.

And since when do you have to rent in DC rather than own your own building? Sullivan is grasping at straws - nice office, they bought the building, good investment - to be sure. Solid, not flim flam, not in the basement or off the alley, OK by me.

Can anyone confirm, Sullivan is a big fan of Joe Libermann? And defends barebacking?

Someone else suggests he pays 150.00 for his designer torn jeans.

Sullivan needs a life.....and needs to become a Democrat......he too, used to like the Iraq war.....a lot.

More birds to him than HRC.

I do like socialists, but dear, its a two party system and the Republicans do not want us in the tent. Or did I miss something in the last decade?

What has Mr. Sullivan done for the gay community lately? He's a god damn Republican. A lot of good that has done any of us.

If nothing else, the HRC has drastically increased our visibility as a community and as individuals. And, if you believe the bullshit about spending all of its money on buildings and on staff salaries, think again. It has one of the lowest costs of fundraising of any organization, gay or otherwise. That means more of every dollar you give goes to its mission and efforts.

Sullivan is wrong. Do your own research into HRC's efforts: from lobbying to education to campaigning to visibility, its work is impressive and appreciated by those who understand the political climate in which HRC operates (and has operated for the past 10 years). D.C. isn't exactly a hospitable place for gays or lesbians, even now.

Oscar -

The Republicans don't want us in their tent.

The Democrats want our wallets in their tent.

Stop being a sucker.

Honey, been a sucker all my life.

Great minds have always called it the best of two bad choices. Dear, life is to be lived.

Do some sucking, better bitters than most.

living = making bad choices?

sorry, darling, nothing is more bitter than that outlook.

I dont' have the time to waste on people that settle for the worst yet claim they know better.

good luck...you will need it.

fuck yeah.

Andrew Sullivan is to politics what Dan Savage is to hetro sex, an interested bystander with a worthless, uninformed opinion.

Pay attention: Sullivan is a liar. He complains about HRC's marketing and branding, but I'm sure a smart guy like him understands what it takes to have such name/logo recognition: quality, trust, reliability. Why do people know and recognize the HRC logo and know what it means and stands for? Because of the work HRC has done on all fronts.

Does any one know what happened last week in D.C.? Hundreds of HRC's volunteers went to D.C., at their own personal expense, to lobby. They pressed lawmakers on ENDA, Hate Crimes, Don't Ask, HIV/Aids appropriations, immigration and other issues before Congress this session. Because of HRC's clout, they were able to lobby even the most rabid gay-haters (e.g., Brownbeck), who normally wouldn't have given his gay constituents the time of day. Hilary Clinton spoke to them. So did Tammy Baldwin. And Judy Shepherd. And Sherrod Brown. And do you know who Eric Alva (Google him) contacted first about his story? HRC.

Sullivan is full of shit. So is Savage for repeating this bile. HRC does good work (and good works). The proof is in the pudding (and the logo).

hillary is awfully quiet about her appearance at HRC...thats what Pams Blend is saying...

What good is iy to support politicians that are afraid to be associated with you??

oh, thats right...its better than the alternative...sucker!

#20 and #21

Fuck is such a great phrase. Now a bit more definition.

Bitter sweet is not just chocolate, but tasty com - but then, I am a sucker.
No matter how idealist we are, the only choice on the table are both flawed.

It is not a bad choice to pick the lesser of two flawed choices.

After the ivory tower, which is where you are dwelling, real life is so dreary and functional.

The American far right is so bad the stink is deadly, war monger stench. Democrats are far from perfect, the stench much less.

...and you, parasite, Oscar, bowing to your only choices, doing nothing while sitting on your tuffet eatng curds and whey declaring that nothing can be done.

It is someone else's problem because you choose to enable the party that positions itself as opposition even though it does nothing to oppose. In fact, quite often lately, they have lead the charge to maintain status quo.

Your lack of criticism and action against your options does no one any good. Not LGBT people. Not the people who oppose the right, and certainly not the political system.

It is the milquetoast, maleable middle that is allowing the right to rule - both the argument and the country.

Thanks, Oscar.

I give money to th Pride Foundation - they're not associated with the Pride Parade in any way - for those of you who wonder. They're a community foundation that gives grants and scholarships to queer organizations and students in Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana and Alaska.

I volunteer on their scholarship committee and write checks - big ones for me.

I give to Pride because I think the key to queer rights and freedoms is greater visibility in our communities. I think that as people get to know us better they'll stop hating us as much.

I'm especially proud of Pride's shareholder activism. By buying stock and making motions at shareholder meetings, Pride has gotten sexual orientation added to the non-descrimination policies of McDonald's, Wal-Mart, GE and several other extremely large institutions. They've faught hard and won for gays - not just in the Pacific Northwest, but all over the country.

You can visit the Pride Foundation webiste at www.pridefoundation.org. Go. Make a gift!

Sullivan is not a Republican. Also, having your own solution to a problem is not a prerequisite to criticizing other people's solutions to it.

Andrew Sullivan is just like Ann Coulter, but fat.

yes to what Josef said. Pride Foundation will use your dollars wisely and well. and a big shout out to their shareholder activism committee for filing resolutions asking corporations to put sexual orientation into their non-discrimination policies. because of them, mcdonalds, general electric, emerson electric AND wal-mart have done just that. and please give generously to their scholarships, which promote leadership in the GLBTQI and allied communities. GO PRIDE!!!!!!!!!!!

Donations - GSBA has the BETTER scholarship program - GSBA does not charge a dime for their program, the organization pays any expense.

Hundred dollars into the fund, hundred dollars out to students.

Pride is a bit more greedy, so they charge for administering their own program. For me, that is cheap skate stuff.

Also Pride seems to give money to people/groups who have friends on their Board.

I am a helper to organize the real Pride weekend, and the Pride Foundation has never given a dime to organize Pride. Nada, never ever. They rent a booth.

And the have taken a lot of undue credit because many people think it is an in house project.......yeah, after all it is their name.

Rumor is they pay $10.000.00 a month rent in deluxe space out on Madison, off the Hill, for 15 workers.......maybe some of the scholarship cash they pay themselves to administer.

Their numbers don't not work for me, but the stock thing was a great project, past president Ted Lord pulled that together.

Two points for discussion ...

The first point ... The preceding bloggers appear somewhat misguided on HRC. HRC is an organization comprised of a political arm which lobbies politicians on behalf of GLBT interests and a non profit foundation which focuses on education of GLBT issues. Both do require requests for donations, primarily from GLBT and their friends. The funds designated for political lobbying do go to politicians and the like. The funds for the foundation fund the educational efforts either internally or externally. In the outcomes of these efforts. HRC scored pretty well on pro GLBT supportive politiicians in the fall 2006 election - scored in the 95 to 98% range of winning politicians in this election (only one other organization scored better and that was the labor union SEIU). One need only look at the continued progress in the pro GLBT elected officials in the US House and Senate as well as the ranks in the WA House and Senate - this is huge in that all federal marriage and discrimination laws at the federal level are on hold. Behind the scenes, HRC worked handily with politicians to secure changes in the taxation of non spousal beneficiaries to retirement accounts - this is a huge victory for GLBT. How can anybody say theat HRC is not an effective organization.

The second point is ... can anybody tell me what Andrew Sullivan or Dan Savage has done for GLBT rights, civil marriage, anti-discrimination, GLBT youth, etc.? I can't find their names on the donation ranks of the thousands of contributions that are made to the pro GLBT organizations. I don't see them at the Pride Parade, Pride Festival, Equality Day. I don't see them in any leadership role at HRC, Lambda Legal, ACLU, NGLTF, Equal Rights Washington. For two well known writers who make their livelihoods in large part off the GLBT community, I only feel their criticizing those who do contribute their time and money in positive ways. Can anybody tell me how they contribute to the GLBT community in a positive way? Can anybody?

I dropped my HRC membership earlier this year. Sullivan - aside from his controversial stances - makes good points. HRC is a money machine that is swept up in marketing themselves. I now support GLAAD

Steve, you've got a correlation/causation fallacy going on there. Okay, so some polticians supported by HRC won. How important was HRC support, particularly in an election that was largely about the war, and one in which all but one anti-marriage initiatives passed, and one in which the Republicans were dogged by bankruptcies both fiscal and ethical? And let's not forget that the HRC is willing to support incumbent politicians with bad to mediocre records on GBLT issues instead of a challenger with excellent positions and records on GLBT issues. With incumbency already so powerful, how big an impact is an endorsement going to make?

Sullivan is a right wing leech in some disguise of his own invention - a conservative. He likes Bush, likes war, and on down the list....flip wit, nice charming voice, full of bullshit which markets to the straight world.

There is no voice more reactionary among the national gay talking heads.

Dan throw bombs for effect, circulation and perhaps just to see people squirm. But he also goes to places and delivers some lectures of life experience and what it is to be gay that are great. His books are good sellers which give another glimpse into gay life. Education is still a needed commodity for our movements.

Why he gets angry about the movement locally or nationally is hard to understand. And, who the hell is he to preach, aside from his truckload of ink every week?

Still, Dan is a keeper, Sullivan is a moon faced right wing toady.

I give money to numerous local no load groups including the GLBT Center. Lots of money. Cannot endure the posh dinner circuit - which nets little real cash after hororific hotel/catering/flowers/paid speakers expenses.

Bluntly, Gitai, you know not what you are talking about. You have the national political wiew of a farmer.

It has taken 20 years to build national infrastructure. And we HAVE succeeded, beyond all hope. A dozen or more major networks, legal, safe schools, GLAAD, army-navy issues, Pride Committees, attorneys, Choral groups, teachers, media, WHAT A FUCKING AMAZING LIST. yes, indeed a movement of awesome influence and money and purpose.

HRC has now a membership of 650,000. Big budgets and national clout. It is about time.

DC is the big game because its every move to all the states. But the politics and strategies of the cesspool are mind boggling and very imperfect.

Mistakes are going to happen, we get outsmarted, and on down the list.

But I am glad they are all there pumping. And glad one national organization has 650.000 members in all states, plus much more.

#9
My nephew is 35
and I am not going to start handing out stuffed toys to the kids in the neighborhood, just too creepy Umm "Honey"!
Equality is not a stuffed animal it is something you have to teach kids on a serious level, not by constantly treating them like stupid morons by giving them a stuffed toy every time there is a lesson to learn to fix ( I think that is how Brittany Spears ended up the way she did)
That Nephew I mentioned is a very well adjusted 35 yr. old. We never gave him stuffed toys to teach him serious concepts, he would have told "us" to "get stuffed". He was smart and I think kids are underestimated.

is this all about the wrong colored teddy bear

seems about that silly

or someone who likes to wear pride gee gaws isn't hip - and HRC should not sell logo T shirts? silly, small donors and small payers, buyers, indicate grass roots support - do we all think only giant corporate money chests count? I like HRC shipping ten million items a year to 5 million small time folks, love it in fact

oh, but andy buys his stuff at prada....and endorses neo cons, ugh

sullivan may sell his fanged blather to the networks, but not to me or my friends

It's great to see so many Seattle-area HRC supporters take off their tuxedos for a minute to post ad hominem attacks on Savage and Sullivan here on Slog. So I have just one question, for Hilda @ 4 - who says that HRC pumped $100K into local races in WA last year. The question is: how much money did HRC raise out of the pockets of WA donors last year?

thanks trey - I suspect it is a wash, the big dinner takes in a lot of cash but costs a lot per person, expensive catering, etc.

My point was more they now have a great field based strategy of coming to the field/elections state by state to get gay friendly legislatures in place.

Great change in strategy and very effective.

Sullivan glosses over all that, of course. His disjointed big mouth clamor is more about attenion for himself than facts and dialog about how to make efforts better.

And, since we know that HRC was working in Washinton big time, they as an org. don't just aimlessly roam the halls of congress as fogged out ineffective no nothings.

They have changed directions a lot, much to their credit.

I bought twenty bears last night online, great idea here to give them to every kid I find.

I like the thought of 6-7 year old kids, pure curiosity, asking about the logo.

I realize the thread is dead, but all of you who are ranting about the costs of the dinner that HRC hosts here every year are speaking without the benefit of any of the numbers or facts. The cost of fundraising for that event is less than one-third (thanks to HRC's generous sponsors and supporters). And for those of you who think it's all about tuxedos, why don't you go to the bowling event ($35), the L Word event (Free!), or any of the other events hosted here throughout the year (Town Hall meetings, etc.).

I guess being the best means being criticized, but why such divisiveness within our own community? I don't get it.

deadthread - you are very right, there is a disconnect - and a lot of is your fault

I used to work part time at SGN and you treat them like shit

If you spent 50.00 SGN would print the numbers of your dinner and thus clear away all the speculation in favor of facts

oh sure, $200,000.00 event, can't spend any cash in the name of fiscal openness

the best, hardly, the best were ACT-UP and Queer Nation - but times have changed

someone here posted that you gave money in local races, good, but that does not cure all the years of corporate style DC palace politics

how about a 50.00 dinner event in seattle, and get rid of all that stuffy and passe over hyped upscale tuxedo stuff - geez, if the ticekets were free none of my friends nor I would go

the best spagetti possibe, beer and wine and rock music --- why not

the best needs some flexibility, n'est pas ???